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The Power that is Pure-Meditite discussion

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Articanus, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. Articanus

    Articanus

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    Meditite is a pokemon banished to LC ubers due to his enormous attack stat that has people paranoid. Thanks to his ability, Pure Power, his attack stat surpasses that of even Cranidos.

    Now for a little history. Meditite was, in my opinion, a little pre-maturely banned, though it was done so for good reason at the time. No one could have predicted the spike of usage in pokes such as Gligar(I called this one actually =3), Misdreavus, and Croagunk. These all currently occupy the top three slots, and all are good checks for Meditite. The issue being is that none of them can really come in...

    Meditite @ Choice Scarf
    Pure Power: Adamant / Jolly
    116 HP, 196 Atk, 196 Spd
    Hi Jump Kick
    Psycho Cut
    Ice Punch
    Trick / Bullet Punch / Recover

    If I may theorymon here a little bit, this would probably be the set to use. With an Adamant nature, this beast hits a total of 28 Attack and 22 Speed. The 22 Speed allows it to beat everything hitting 21, while the 28 Attack lets it rip through walls. Only the most defensive resists or immunities can even attempt to block this.

    Hi Jump Kick(HJK) is Meditite's main STAB move, and while it may be lacking the base power of Mankey's Close Combat, Meditite hits like a truck. Psycho Cut compliments HJK very well, hitting everything neutral except pure psychic types. Ice Punch is, more or less, a way for Meditite to immediantly dispose of Gligar, while at the same time being a more reliable move than his two STABs thanks to nothing being immune to it, having 100% accuracy, and even a small freeze rate to take advantage of.

    The last spot is COMPLETE filler, to be honest. Trick can be interesting if you want to try and cripple any switch-in, leaving Misdreavus and other ghosts Pursuit bait for pokes like Stunky, Houndour, and Munchlax. Bullet Punch is priority, and stops you from being Sucker Punch's by last pokemon Croagunk, among others. recover lets it live longer, though it's a bit more than risky, especially in LC.

    The issue with this is like every other scarfer: you're stuck in one attack, prone to revenge-killing and set-up. Ghosts will literally OHKO Meditite if they come in directly into a HJK.... though they pay the price of being OHKOed(2HKOed if you're name is Duskull) if they come into Psycho Cut. Most ghosts also serve as a good revenge-killer, seeing as Misdreavus likes to run Shadow Sneak, Gastly has Scarf, and Duskull is commonly seen with Shadow Sneak as well. Psycho Cut may not kill you by missing with it, but if your opponent brings in a dark time(particularly Stunky/ Houndour), you can say goodbye to Meditite. Priority also does a good job at checking Meditite, as it isn't incredibly bulky to take enough abuse.


    Meditite (M) @ Life Orb
    Pure Power: Adamant
    196 Attack, 76 Defense, 196 Speed
    Fake Out
    Hi Jump Kick
    Psycho Cut
    Bullet Punch

    Croagunk with a more stall-breaking feel to it. With LO, NOTHING survives this bad boy's attacks, and combined with its versatility with priority it makes a mean threat to any team.

    Fake Out + Bullet Punch coming from effectively 36 Attack hits hard, even without any STAB. Speaking of that, HJK and Psycho Cut come in again to save the day, rounding out the set completely with perfect coverage and amazing power.

    I would make a list of calculations, but I think that really only one is in order:

    Meditite versus Max HP+Defense +Natured Bronzor
    28 Atk vs 19 Def & 25 HP (100 Base Power): 19 - 24 (76.00% - 96.00%)

    That's the best you're going to get in terms of walling it. But then Bronzor uses Protect and OHKOs Meditite in return. xD

    Or it switches to Misdreavus and gets OHKOed.... but then what happens if it Psycho Cuts? It makes everything one big oriented Prediction fest, which in this case is "glorified guessing".


    So my opinion of Meditite.... obviously it hits hard and is hard to play around, but so are a lot of things. Misdreavus hits hard and can beat any of her "counters" with the appropriate moves, Gligar is predictable as a lunatic politician, and Dratini is damn near impossible to stop when it gets that DD. I think it will very easily make OU, but it won't break the game. It may be a centralizing force, but so will Misdreavus and Gligar.

    I hope you enjoyed this. And sorry Gen for taking so long. ._.'
  2. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    Meditite reminds me of a physical Houndour in all honesty. The Scarf Set is very deadly revenge killer but in turn is dependent on the move which it used, possibly allowing for another pokemon to get a free switch in. While the priority set doesn't really have to worry about what comes in, it's still much easier to revenge due to it not having as much speed. Though its Attack stat isn't something to just shrug off.

    Base 60 Speed is also very good, but it's still not the fastest we have / seen. In all honesty Meditite is one of the pokemon I am very excited to test, because it seems to be the most unique one of them all.
  3. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I personally use Brick Break over HJK (on the LO set). With 36 Attack with LO (right?), you will almost always OHKO whatever you're hitting.

    Also, you aren't listing the Bulk Up set that is viable in OU because of the weaker attacks. Send it in on something like Croagunk, or anything it forces out for that matter, and you have given yourself a Life Orb boosted Pokemon with essentially 42 Attack (without Life Orb).

    This lets it possibly OHKO Missy with Bullet Punch, allows it to easily survive an EQ from Gligar (does like 60% max) and OHKO with Psycho Cut, let's it easily OHKO Dratini with Bullet Punch, let's it OHKO Bronzor with Brick Break, and.....yea what else matters? Maybe it's time for Wingull to shine, since it's one of the only Pokemon that can survive a Bullet Punch and OHKO with an attack (Scarf Chinchou....?). I mean, that's just silly. Wynaut can be OHKOed by a +1 LO Ice Punch! (Though tbh, Return might be worth a shot since Steel + Fighting + Normal hits everything I'm pretty sure (since Rotom isn't allowed))

    I think Meditite is being severely underestimated, well, all of the ubers are! They weren't just theory banned minus Scyther, who is quite obviously uber material.
  4. Son_of_Shadoo

    Son_of_Shadoo

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    Incidentally, how does Pure Power work? Does it double attack before, or after modifiers like Bulk Up? I assume before, but I've been really wrong about a lot of stuff lately...
  5. Ritsi_Time

    Ritsi_Time

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    Doesn't matter.

    28*2 = 56. 56*1.5 = 84.
    28*1.5 = 42. 42*2 = 84.

    Oops. Same applies anyway.
  6. TPM

    TPM

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    It's 28 after the boost from Pure Power.
  7. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Damage Formula has the answer.

    And.. I'm inclined to agree with heysup that Medi is at least likely to push the upper bounds of what power can be accepted, though it is true that the two most used Pokemon are somewhat effective against it (but can be easily KOed by the right moves). It's certainly worth testing, but it seems like a Cranidos with Priority (in two forms), a significantly better defensive type and stats (especially for taking Priority), dual STAB, even higher attack (4 points), and a wider movepool. Lack of speed boosting ability helps, as does lack of the insanely powerful Head Smash+Mould Breaker EQ combo, but.. At the very least it would settle in as a top 3 Pokemon, probably push both Croagunk and Machop out of their jobs at once.

    I don't think Houndour is a great comparison really, Dour gets 18 SpA unboosted max compared to Medi's 28. Sure you have a higher BP STAB available in Fire Blast, but that's still a huge gap in offensive power which allows Medi to blast through things far more bulky than Dour could handle.
  8. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Note that Cranidos is weak to pretty much all forms of priority. Vacuum Wave, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet are especially vicious to it, while Vacuum Wave is actually NVE on Meditite.

    Also, it's important not to dismiss its decent defensive stats. 30/55 isn't especially amazing, but it can run 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe and hit some solid numbers both offensively and defensively. It almost doesn't need a Life Orb due to its gargantuan Attack stat, which means it can have effectively 21 / 12 / 12 defenses.

    Direct comparison to Machop, a fighting-type usually considered "bulky":

    Machop (36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe @ Jolly nature)

    24 HP / 17 Atk / 12 Def / xx SAtk / 10 SDef / 14 Spe

    Meditite (116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe @ Adamant nature)

    21 HP / 28 Atk / 12 Def / xx SAtk / 12 SDef / 16 Spe

    Meditite loses by three HP, but bounces back with a whopping ELEVEN points of Attack, two points of Special Defense, and two points of speed. If you think either the Attack or Speed is overkill, you can invest in defenses and STILL have more Attack than any other Pokemon. The loss of Dynamicpunch hurts, but Brick Break with 66% more attack than Machop really helps its case.

    It can also pull a Croagunk with Fake Out + Bullet Punch off of 28 Attack (before LO!). The stat comparison is generally unnecessary as Croagunk isn't holding a candle to Meditite. The only advantage is that it can hit on the special side with Vacuum Wave, but Meditite's Attack advantage beats any advantage that Croagunk garners by having STAB priority. In addition, it can hit Ghost-types with its priority without worrying about being Substituted on, something that Croagunk can't boast.

    By the way, anyone who spams Fighting-type moves with Meditite is probably not using it to its full advantages. Its secondary STAB in the form of Psycho Cut is monstrous, and Psychic resistances are basically limited to Dark-type Pokemon and Bronzor (and slowpoke i suppose). You're better off throwing around its secondary attacks with its monstrous power than worrying about "omg stabs gogogo".
  9. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Just a little history here: When I had Meditite on my team, I never lost an LC match. I played at least 25 matches with that team, which back then pretty much equated to every LC player ever.

    I'll add more to the discussion in a few days. Something about not failing is keeping me away from the computer as eric may know.
  10. Maris

    Maris

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    Theres one counter to meditite that i can think of. Slowpoke resists both of its STABS resists bullet punch and can T-wave it. slowpoke can then Zen headbutt and slack off to a dead meditite. though with a large increase in slowpoke usage will come a large increase in gastly and missy usage. The metagame could become more centralized as a result of adding meditite. practically forcing teams to run slowpoke to stop it. Duskull is another option to beating medite. though i need to playtest with a few LCers to be sure.
  11. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    You do realize that Medicham OHKOes Misdreavus with Bullet Punch after a bulk up, and OHKOes Gastly before a bulk up right? Also, the most defensive Slowpoke is beaten by a simple Brick Break / Return / Bullet Punch / Bulk Up set.

    42 Atk vs 17 Def & 28 HP (102 Base Power): 23 - 28 (82.14% - 100.00%)

    66.7% OHKO with Stealth Rock. Plus, the best Slowbro can do is uhhhh Paralyze Meditite?

    Though, better yet, even if I'm spamming Brick Break with a non-Bulk Up set, it would still 2HKO almost all of the time (it has a chance to live with 1 HP left after SR) alongside Return (bypassing Oran Berry).
  12. Maris

    Maris

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    assume there is no stealth rocks up. slowpoke will eat a oran and be at approxamatly 13 hp. slowpoke must then slack off to survive the next hit. and be at 28 hp. unless parahax hits slowpoke is dead meat. according to your calculations. Im convinced there is no way to beat meditite other than luckhax. (which isnt a meathod). if however slowpoke comes in fresh vs medi. then slowpoke wins. Medi is uber for sure this will take little time at all.

    EDIt: forgot to show calcs.
    slowpoke takes 23-27 damage from return eats oran
    slowpokes current HP 11-15

    slowpoke uses slack off
    meditte uses return
    slowpokes HP 1-5
    meditite used bullet punch
    slowpoke fainted.
    2 hopes for parahax. otherwise slowpoke goes down.
  13. Sledge

    Sledge

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    One problem that I see with meditite is Hi Jump Kick, while it as an extrememly powerful STAB coming off a crazy high attack stat, the potential of missing would scare me to death, especially being locked into it. With missy being on around half of teams nowadays, and gastly gaining popularity, it seems it would be easy to switch to one on a predicted HJK and have meditite take massive recoil damage. I'm not saying that meditite doesn't seem extremely powerful, only that HJK seems like a major flaw.
  14. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    You are not forced to run Hi Jump Kick with Meditite. Brick Break is just slightly weaker than HJK, and has a nifty secondary effect. And while significantly weaker than Hi Jump Kick, Drain Punch is still viable and helps offset the Life Orb recoil.
  15. Sledge

    Sledge

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    I phrased my post badly and maybe didn't think very clearly, I meant the problem is with HJK and not meditite itself.
  16. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    HJK is actually completely unnecessary on Meditite and actually opens it up to more threats than Brick Break does. The fact that HJK can miss and OHKO poor Meditite, and it makes it significantly easier to bring the Ghosts in and watch Meditite pwn itself.

    Besides, Brick Break on Meditite completely removes the chances that some crafty foe will screen up on you and resist all your attacks.

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