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The PU Viability Ranking Thread (Read post #112)

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Detective Dell, May 4, 2013.

  1. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    On Gabite

    Good to see others recognizing this thing! Gabite is one of the better Dragons in PU at the moment, being able to set up Rocks with impunity, and packing a great speed and a strong Earthquake (not much to say about his Outrage, since its pretty much dense air in comparison to Zweilous'.) to pick off other leads like Gigalith and Graveler. Its bulk is great, and has an amazing ability for a defensive mon in Rough Skin, allowing it to rack up damage on U-Turners, which is always nice. Its great typing also gives it a Fire-Type resist, a neutrality to Grass- and Water-, and an immunity to Electric-. This makes it the best Rapidash check in the tier, resisting its STAB, and either being immune to or resisting its most common coverage moves. WhiteDMist is correct: The mon is very versatile, being able to set up rocks, act as a great defensive pivot against VolTurn, and hit hard to pick off enemy Fire- and Dragon-Types all in the course of a match. I do agree that the Choice Band variant has its merits, it is pretty much outclassed by Zweilous, who hits so much harder than Gabite. Scarf is an option, as it allows Gabite to outspeed Golduck and pick it off easily. Its great coverage also exemplifies this, making Gabite a capable revenge killer. With this, I nominate Gabite for A-Rank along with WhiteDMist. It's just a good mon, one of the best offensive hazard setters in the tier.

    On this note, I would like to address a mon I've been using to set up my rocks:

    Marshtomp

    The first thing that interested me about Marshtomp was that its typing gave it only a single, fairly uncommon weakness in Grass-, as well as a useful immunity to Electric-. In many ways, it does the same job as Gabite, just not as quickly. Water- Type STAB is very, very good against leads in PU, and with Attack investment, Marshtomp can 2HKO Gigalith and Graveler with Waterfall or Earthquake. Its good bulk with Eviolite and lack of weaknesses sans Grass- allow it to take a few hits and set up rocks with ease. The downside, however, is that Marshtomp is very slow, and many Scarfed Water-Types tend to carry Hidden Power (Grass), making him fairly easy to pick off. For this reason, I nominate Marshtomp for B Rank. He's a reliable hazard setter for more balanced teams, while Gabite does its job better on faster, more offensive teams.
  2. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

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    Gabite is pretty good in PU. It sports a really good defensive typing, with only weaknesses to Ice and Dragon. It is immune to Volt Switch, but must be wary of the possible HP [Ice] or Blizzard the carrier may use. It has a good ability in Rough Skin - which is really good for wearing down most physical attackers. Everything that needs to be said is already said with the two solid arguments above , so yeah, A-Rank for Gabite instead of B.

    EDIT: May I reserve a write-up for Gabite? :)
  3. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 40 more
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    Well I was considering doing the write up but go ahead. :) Just know I'll be checking it very thoroughly since I have plenty experience using it.
  4. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Nozzle (open)
    Basculin doesn't have a lot of options. But it has Adaptability to make up for it. It has a great base 98 Speed stat and an above average Attack stat of 92. Usually it's spamming high powered Aqua Jets and Waterfalls, which have good mono-coverage, and Crunch and Double-Edge if it's needed, over the course of the match. Most of the time this further bolstered by a Choice Band or a Life Orb. It is easiliy one of the best priority users in the tier. And can suprise walls with a mixed set with Ice Beam and Superpower. It is however frail and Scarfers and bulky Grass-types are common. It is checked by anything that is faster and can tank an Aqua Jet or anything that can easiliy take any attack Basculin throws at it. When you are facing a Basculin you need to play safe with your Water-resists or it may possibly disassemble your team.


    Edit: Done editing. Feel free to check again.
  5. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    [​IMG]

    Punchshroom (open)
    Mr. Mime is one of the more, if not most interesting Psychic type in the tier. It has an absolutely massive movepool, much of which consists of glance-worthy gimmicks, which allows it to perform a variety of roles. It has a good Speed of 90 (fast enough to outrun Golduck and Rotom-Frost) and Special Attack of 100, as well as a high base 120 Special Defense stat that allows it to take weaker special attacks such as Scald or Giga Drain with ease, though poor 40 base HP and lack of reliable recovery means it can't wall them. It also has a good offensive movepool, but usually STAB paired with either Signal Beam or Focus Blast + Shadow Ball are fairly standard fare with other moves like Thunderbolt and Energy Ball as bonuses. Mr. Mime can run Choice items with Trick to disrupt walls, to revenge or cripple opponents. It possesses good boosting moves such as Nasty Plot and Calm Mind to possibly sweep. Mr. Mime's most notable niche however, is being an excellent Baton Passer, with access to moves like Barrier/Iron Defense, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, and Meditate to grant its teammates a boost. What makes Mr. Mime even more potent though is its access to Encore, Taunt and Soundproof, which are godsends to Baton Pass teams or "small-scale" Baton Pass alike, the former two granting free setup turns and the latter preventing phazing by Roar or Perish Song without lifting a finger. Filter or Technician can still be used for non-Baton Pass teams, but immunity to sound-based moves is more relevant than it lets on, given its weakness instead of immunity to Bug Buzz otherwise. Despite all these great traits that make it a good offensive sweeper or supporter, Mr. Mime is horrid at taking physical hits (and there are many), even with the aid of Barrier, so Mr. Mime still has to watch its step.
  6. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 40 more
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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS
    Basculin (open)


    You need to emphasize that it is one of the few Pokemon with powerful and reliable priority in the tier. You can also point out that it can run a surprise Special set with Superpower to break Special Walls. Also, its base 98 Speed is excellent in PU so don't knock it. The only fast Electric-types in the tier that aren't Scarfed would be Raichu and Emolga, who hate taking more than 1 Aqua Jet. Rotom-F is the most common one, but is easily worn down with Rocks and Aqua Jet. Put more emphasis on bulky Grass types, since they are far more reliable than Electric in checking Basculin.

    Mr. Mime (open)

    Point out that it is the fastest offensive Psychic type in the tier (tied with Abra lol), so it is very viable as a plain all-out attacker or even a Nasty Plot attacker. It isn't forced to use Baton Pass to distinguish itself anymore. That base 90 Speed also outpaces non-Scarfed Rotom-F and Golduck, which is significant enough to mention. While not necessary, you can try to fit in that Technician and Filter are also available for non-BP sets, but that Soundproof is usually more effective even then. Other than that, good job! :toast:
  7. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    Update with your changes, AgentDell, on Basculin (coughhhhhh Nozzle), Rampardos, Pupitar and Huntail.
  8. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Will do when i can get my cpu in hands. Editing on phone isn't ideal. Probs in an hour or 12 (pls dont kill me. Blame my timezone)
  9. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Can do, though the reason I mentioned the "not lifting a finger about Roar and Perish Song" bit because it does not need to Taunt them. Also, Swoobat is the fastest offensive Psychic btw.

    Edit: Done.
  10. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    Mantine:
    Audiosurfer (open)
    Mantine has plenty of things going for it in the PU metagame. It can use an offensive Rain Dance set to great effect, using its Swift Swim boost to outspeed many other Pokemon in the tier under rain while getting a boost on one of its STABs. Thanks to its good typing, decent HP, and fantastic Special Defense, it can set up easier than other weather sweepers such as Swanna. It also has the option of using a Physically Defensive RestTalk set to beat things such as Throh and Klang and utilize its good Defensive typing. Although it might seem like there are few reasons not to use Mantine, there are flaws that hamper its usability. Mantine's Base 80 Special Attack is good, but not great, so it has trouble breaking through any Specially Defensive Pokemon that could try and switch in on it. Also, it faces competition as a Rain Dance Sweeper from Swanna, which has a higher Special Attack, and access to Hurricane. In addition, its weakness to Stealth Rock hampers its life expectancy, especially on Defensive sets where it will need to be able to tank hits repeatedly. Despite these flaws, Mantine is an excellent Pokemon in PU and is worth considering on any team.


    Klang:
    Audiosurfer (open)
    At first glance, Klang isn't a Pokemon that has much going for it, but underneath an unassuming exterior lies a fearsome sweeper. Thanks to the Defensive boosts from Eviolite and fantastic resistances and immunities from its Steel typing, Klang has no difficulty utilizing Shift Gear and Substitute to boost its stats and go for a sweep. Klang is capable of setting up on many threats such as Dodrio, Duosion and Vileplume with these traits, as well as acting as an offensive check to them and other threats thanks to its typing. Klang does have some crippling flaws that prevent it from performing as well as one might expect. Its movepool is barren, with Return and Wild Charge being the only coverage options on a sweeper set. Also, bulky Water and Fighting types such as Throh and Seadra have no problem walling Klang to hell and back. Another thing going against it is that its Attack stat isn't as impressive as other sweepers in the tier such as Ursaring or Fraxure, so it requires hazards support or multiple boosts to break through some of the bulkier Pokemon in the tier. These things might be important, but Klang is still not to be underestimated, and is a great Pokemon despite its flaws.


    Might do more later but for now I'm tired. Also, I support Gabite to A Tier since its typing, Speed and good Attack stat definitely give it plenty of reasons to be used. As WhiteDMist said, its typing grants it many useful resistances and immunities such as those to Electric and Fire attacks, its Speed is higher than many other Stealth Rock setters, and 90 Attack lets it do good damage to many things as well.
  11. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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  12. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    Before I advance towards making updates, I would like to just point out that for about a few times have I encountered upon more than one user performing a write-up analysis on the same Pokemon. No worries; this is a situation that is gladly to be permitted, but it comes at a cost of a challenge among which is superior in terms of the standards of the council members. What this means is if there does happen to be situations like this (such as the current Basculin write-ups), it will be settled by a voting decision among the PU Viability Ranking council that is primarily decided upon statistic superiority unless there happens to arbitrarily become a clear-cut case regarding which is deemed superior in-terms of my standing (or another member if they so happen to provide good detail regarding that). This will most likely take place on closed doors (or more specifically, the actual PU chat). For the sake of making things fair and avoiding the situation of bias or arrogance, if a council member is doing a write-up analysis that is under the process of this situation, then they will be automatically excluded from the voting process. Good luck to those who've currently done so alongside potential decisions and stay tuned for the results.

    Anyhow, I shall progress towards the updates without further ado:
  13. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 40 more
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    Cheers! My favorite PU Pokemon since I was a little kid, I give you Pidgeot!

    Pidgeot (open)
    Pidgeot is a decent but outclassed Pokemon. Even in PU it faces competition from Dodrio ad Fearow as a Choice Band Normal/Flying-type. Its base 80 Attack is average, while its base 91 Speed still misses out on the significant base 95 and 100 Speed tiers. Its bulk is slightly greater than the aforementioned birds, but it rarely makes a difference with Stealth Rock being so common. Still, it has a few kep aspects over Fearow and Dodrio that make it somewhat notable. It has Brave Bird unlike Fearow, so it does significantly more damage when comparing Flying STABs. It also has U-Turn, which Dodrio lacks, making it a decent scout and pivot. It is also capable of running a Special set with Hurricane, Hidden Power Ground, and Heat Wave; such a set is only barely viable because it can catch an opponent off guard. While it will always be in the shadow of the other birds, it does have a few small factors that can give it a space on your team. One must simply remember that Pidgeot itself is not a bad Pokemon; it just doesn't stand out very much.


    @JoshuaMunoz: Are you still writing up Gabite?
  14. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Oh, Oops.

    Actually i think voting for whose Write-up will be included could bring new discussion to the thread.
  15. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    [​IMG]Simipour

    Punchshroom (open)
    Simipour is one of numerous Water-types that inhabit PU, and can certainly distinguish itself from the rest. With good base 98 offenses and fantastic 101 base speed, it seems to eclipse Golduck in the sweeping department. Boasting excellent coverage in Water, Ice, Grass, and Fighting (all without the aid of Hidden Power!) as well as Nasty Plot, Simipour can become a massive threat very quickly, with Torrent or Gluttony further facilitating its rampage. However, Simipour's poor bulk which it can do nothing about make it difficult to set up a Nasty Plot and make it easy to revenge kill. Simipour also fares worse against opposing weather than Golduck, though with a Scarf it can outpace +2 neutral base 70s (but not positive base 70s!). That said, if you do not have trouble with weather and would like a higher risk-reward strategy with your Water-type, Simipour is for you.


    [​IMG]Relicanth

    Punchshroom (open)
    Relicanth has the makings of a physical tank: high HP, good Attack and great Defense, as well as useful resists to Normal, Flying, Fire, and Ice means he can sponge some blows, including non-STAB super effective physical hits such as Wild Charge, Earthquake or even Superpower with a more defensive build, allowing Relicanth to perform as one of the best physical sponges available in PU. The more appealing quality however, is that Relicanth has STAB Head Smash paired with its Rock Head ability, which is essentially a free 1.5x boost to Stone Edge. Backed by workable base 90 Attack, this move can put some serious holes into neutral targets, even if Relicanth has no offensive investment. Relicanth also sports a good offensive movepool consisting of Waterfall, Earthquake and Zen Headbutt, which can deal with most Rock resists. Relicanth can go defensive by soaking up physical hits and set up Stealth Rock for the team or go offensive by using Rock Polish to blitz past opponents and hammer them in with Head Smashes. The downsides of Relicanth are that defensive sets lack reliable recovery and are easily targeted by almost every special attacker, whereas offensive sets are slow enough to be easily outsped by Scarfers and are pretty reliant on Head Smash killing things (while possessing the trademark Stone Edge accuracy) and not being resisted, seeing as their other moves do not having amazing base power. However, Relicanth can make good use of its traits, namely its stats and movepool, being an effective sponge or/and attacker that stands out in PU.
  16. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

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    Sorry for taking too long, but my Gabite write-up is now complete.

    JoshuaMunoz (open)

    Gabite may seem like an inferior Fraxure at first glance - who boasts Dragon Dance and is significantly more powerful - but looks can be deceiving, as Gabite is one of the most unique Dragon types out there. Gabite has great bulk factoring Eviolite, and an even greater typing due to resisting Fire, Rock, and Poison moves while also being immune to Electric type attacks. Base 90 Attack as well as access to a Dragon and Ground type STAB moves means that it has good offensive presence while also having near-perfect neutral coverage. Gabite also has the ever-valuable Stealth Rock, making it a pretty decent utility Pokemon for your team. Gabite's ability, Rough Skin, allows it damage the likes of Stoutland, Throh, Muk, Rampardos among others if they use a physical contact move against Gabite. Gabite's Base 82 Speed stat is also quite decent, outspeeding the likes of Stoutland and Rampardos naturally. The only major problem Gabite worries about is its 4x weakness Ice type moves, which a good number of Pokemon carry. But nonetheless, if you're looking for a sturdy Pokemon who is fast, strong, and can set up Stealth Rock, then Gabite is the 'mon for the job!
  17. Anty

    Anty

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    I shall do masquerain and octillery respectively.

    Masquerain
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    Masquerain has low stats and a terrible typing, 4x weak to Rock and 2x weak to many other types, but it has one rather nice niche, Quiver Dance. It may seem to be outclassed by Butterfree but it is the only PU Quiver Dancer who can baton pass. This extremely useful as it can set up special sweepers such as Golduck or Rotom-F but it is very frail and requires a Focus Sash which can easily be broken by Stealth Rocks. It can sweep with Quiver Dance but due to its middling speed an special attack it often requires two. It does have a nice moveset including Bug Buzz, Air Slash, Hydro Pump, Giga Drain, Ice Beam, and more. Overall Masquerain has a small niche in Baton Passing Quiver Dances.


    Octillery
    Show Hide
    Octillery is a decent Pokemon in PU thanks to its versatility. It can run both physical and special moveset consisting of Surf, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, Fire Blast, Signal Beam, Bullet Seed, Waterfall, Rock Blast, Thunder Wave, most inportanly Water Spout and more. Octillery has its flaws including low defences and terrible speed which would be helpful with Trick Room. Its only boosting move is Charge Beam which is hard to use due to its low speed. Overall Octillery is a decent Pokemon but with a low spead which keeps it down in the depths of PU.
  18. Harbinger of Peace

    Harbinger of Peace

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    I don't think anyone has done Butterfree, so here I go.

    [​IMG]

    Butterfree
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    Butterfree seems to be another generic bug pokemon, being held back by its mediocre stats, its weaknesses to common attacking moves, and its glaring stealth rock weakness. But, Butterfree is actually a very threatening pokemon, because it has access to an amazing boosting move in Quiver Dance. Although there are several other Quiver Dance users in PU, Butterfree stands out due to Sleep Powder and it's two amazing abilities, Tinted Lens and Compoundeyes. Tinted Lens gives Butterfree much better coverage, and Compoundeyes makes Sleep Powder have a much more reliable 95% accuracy. Butterfree does need a bit of team support to work (especially Rapid Spin), but it can set up fairly easily after using Sleep Powder, and once Butterfree gets started, little can stop it after a few Quiver Dances (It needs two QD to outspeed everything, I believe) Butterfree is something to look out for, because if you underestimate this little bug, it can, and will, sweep your team.
  19. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    I'm not sure why Carnivine is D-Rank, does it do anything better than fellow Grass-types? It can really only do physical sets because its special movepool is pretty atrocious, and that's not implying it has a good physical movepool either. All I see in Carnivine are Swords Dance, Power Whip, Crunch and double Powders. Other Grass types such as Meganium, Vileplume, Bellossom and even Maractus make use of their support moves much better than Carnivine, so Vine is limited to just one role. And then Leafeon and Jumpluff just strut right up and outshow the Flytrap, boasting Swords Dance along with greater speed and/or power with more bulk and alternate STAB respectively, the latter also boasting Carnivine's double Powders.

    Granted, those two are good Grass-types in their own right, so can Carnivine really hold its own? No, hell no, his bulk is average for a Grass-type, but he is slow as molasses while not packing priority Sucker Punch to make up for it. Other Grasses that can Swords Dance (even if that is not the best they can do) such as Bellossom and Meganium have more bulk and better coverage, and mind you Grass-types are notorious for having bad coverage, so that's saying something about how outclassed Carnivine is. Anyone who has used Carnivine has probably asked "why the hell am I using this/not using something else?", as I'm certain the poor sods who chose this as their Research Week mon have found out the hard way.
  20. Magikarpz

    Magikarpz

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    How is Dwebble not listed in here at all? Dwebble is amazing in NU let alone PU. With access to both stealth rock and spikes it makes an unbelievable suicide lead with a custap berry. Dwebble obviously separates itself from Gigalith because of its access to spikes, and it has sturdy over Omanyte who also has access to spikes/stealth rock. And it has rock type stab and a workable attack stat to outshine pineco. All in all, Dwebble is one of the best suicide leads in PU and I feel it is deserving of at least A rank.
  21. WhiteDMist

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    Ok, I have used Dwebble a few times so I can give an opinion on it at least. It is very effective at setting up hazards thanks to Sturdy and the probable Custap Berry. It even has the option of running Shell Smash, making it one of the faster users of that move (it is horribly weak though). I feel that while it almost always gets at least Rocks up, it has a few notable flaws that prevent it from being A-rank. I agree that it deserves a rank for being able to set up pretty easily early game, but these flaws will be a problem. What are the flaws? The other common leads, that's what. Gigalith is extremely common, and the most effective ones are the ones who carry Rock Blast, which can KO Dwebble through Sturdy, meaning it can only set up Rocks. Camerupt is also common, and a single Lava Blast has a 30% chance of also limiting Dwebble to Rocks only. Then there is the annoying Persian lead, who always carries Taunt, which stops Dwebble completely. While rare, the Pineco that was mentioned can set up alongside Dwebble, and then just Rapid Spin all of Dwebble's hard work away. If you do not lead with Dwebble, chances are that at least one hazard will be set on your field, removing Sturdy as well. These flaws are few, but significant enough that I think Dwebble at best belongs in the B-rank.
  22. Agent Gibbs

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    Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, I think Dwebble could fit right up there with Pineco as a B-Rank Pokemon. Both have their own little advantages, and both make for great suicide leads, if not the best ones in the whole tier. Of course, the flaws that WhiteDMist pointed out are very real problems (and these generally apply to Pineco as well), and both hazard setters struggle to do too much outside of setting hazards. Still, the fact that both of these are such excellent hazard setters for offense teams earns them a spot in at least B-Rank.
  23. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Have any of you guys tried out Stantler? I've been using it very successfully so far. Its coverage and Sap Sipper are amazing. Earthquake and Sucker Punch are both rare with a Normal type (I think completely rare in PU) and his stats are pretty darn good for the tier as well (95 attack 85 speed). I guess you could compare it to Sawsbuck in NU for a decent connection. My input alone isn't enough to decide its placement, but I can confidently say it deserves a spot on there somewhere.
  24. WhiteDMist

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    While the higher Speed, priority, and Sap Sipper do give Stantler a niche over Stoutland, the Choice Band/Life Orb set really wasn't all that impressive during my testing. It is much frailer than the dog, so it would be hard pressed to switch in on anything except a Grass or Ghost move. Sucker Punch does make it a decent revenge killer though, and base 85 Speed is pretty decent. It does have Double-Edge, which makes up for the lower base Atk at the cost of making Stantler frailer than it already was. While it would be an excellent Grass killer, it seems that Megahorn is illegal with Sap Sipper, making Double-Edge the best move to use for the job. It can use a Calm Mind set, but I would even prefer using Girafarig over it for something like that. I'm am going to put in a hesitant suggestion that Stantler should go in B-rank for now, but if anyone else tests it out some more and decides differently then that is fine.

    Edit: How odd, I couldn't seem to use Megahorn because it was incompatible with the ability Sap Sipper on PS, but w.e. I'll let someone else look into it and clarify. I believe it is an egg move though.
  25. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    As someone who has used Stantler very often, I feel obliged to throw my hat in.

    Stantler is an odd Pokémon in PU. Many times people would prefer using Stoutland for better bulk, Ursaring for dat raw power, or Vigoroth for its support options. Stantler needs to find its niche, and it does in Sap Sipper, Megahorn, and Sucker Punch. Contrary to what WhiteDMist said in his post, I have used Sap Sipper with Megahorn in many matches and it is considered legal, meaning that Stantler becomes one of the best Grass- killers in the tier. A decent base 95 Attack, coupled with sitting at a benchmark speed tier in 85, as well as Sucker Punch makes Stantler one of the premier physical revenge killers with a Choice Scarf. With one and a Jolly Nature, Stantler outspeeds near all of the unboosted meta, and conveniently has access to SE priority to hit one of the most threatening things that outspeeds it, Swoobat. The Life Orb set is also very effective, but its hard to switch in due to mediocre bulk, which is exactly Stantler's issue: he may be fast and strong, but he's wet tissue. 73 / 62 / 65 defenses kinda ruin any set up opportunities for it, making two great boosting moves in Calm Mind and Work Up (the latter very effective due to Stantler's good Special Attack and Attack.) pretty much useless. He's still, in my opinion, the tier's most effective Grass- Type killer, with access to Megahorn off of a strong base 95 Attack (for PU, anyway), being able to 2HKO even max defense Vileplume with either Megahorn or Return if Stealth Rocks are up when switching into a Grass-Type move (mind you, Return still 2HKO's at +1 regardless of hazards.). Overall, Stantler is a very good Pokémon in the current meta, but is not as good as certain other Normal-Types (i.e. Stoutland) due to its poor bulk. I think it should be B-Rank.

    (I'm okay with any rank, honestly. I just want my write-up to be on the OP :P)

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