The PU Viability Ranking Thread (Read post #112)

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Detective Dell, May 4, 2013.

  1. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Can anyone say why Seviper is B rank?
    I haven't used it alot but to me it's just too slow, it's strength is underwhelming and it's also pretty frail. It has nice coverage on the special set guess. (I have the urge to compare it with vire)

    C imo.
  2. MQJinx

    MQJinx

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    I think Magnemite may have a shot for D-Rank. Its niche is trapping Steel-types (Nosepass can too but is worse than Magnemite). Choice Scarf is used to revenge kill Steels while Eviolite and Choice Specs are alternatives for dealing with slower Steels. It can also scout with Volt Switch, SubCBeam, Magnet Rise, RestTalk, and Magic Coat off hazards, Leech Seed, and status moves.
  3. Pokemasta77

    Pokemasta77

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    I would like to nominate two pokemon. First, I would like to nominate Marshtomp for at least B-Rank but maybe A-Rank. Then, I would like to nominate Sandshrew for C-Rank.
    Although Marshtomp does not have any amazing stats, it is well balanced. Not to mention, it has fantastic typing with only having a 4x weakness to Grass. In addition, it has many viable moves that it can use. For Sandshrew, it has good attack and defense. Then, with Swords Dance, it can setup and destroy teams. Another good point is that it has access to Rapid Spin. The real weakness is that it has awful special defense. I'll try a write for both of these in a second.
    Marshtomp
    Show Hide
    When looking at it, Marshtomp appears to have mediocore stats. Nothing really seems to stand out but in reality, Marshtomp is well balanced. With 70/70/70 defenses and access to Eviolite, it is able to tank most of the tier. Even though it is quite slow, it can use that to its advantage with Mirror Coat, Avalanche, and Counter. The options for Marshtomp vary and facing one is like taking something out of a hat. You really can not know what you are going to get in advance. Marshtomp could either be a defensive and use Counter, Avalanche, Mirror Coat, or setup Stealth Rocks. It can also function as a physical tank by setting up with Curse. Lastly, it can function as an all out attacker with its diverse movepool. The one disadvantage our swamp friend has is a 4x weakness to Grass. With the ability to use moves like Superpower, Ice Punch, Aqua Tail, and Earthquake, fighting Marshtomp really is unpredictable. Without having the right counter to it, it can and will, completely destroy your team.


    Edit: I'll only do Sandshrew if nobody wants it.
  4. Edricky

    Edricky

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    I must ask, why is Heatmor B-Rank? It's only got decent offenses and nothing else really going for it; its abilities are OK, but I continually want to draw comparisons to Magmar, a C-Rank 'mon with VERY similar offenses (2 less Atk and 5 less SpAtk) and a much better Speed stat of 93 (Compared to Heatmor's 65... Yikes.) Also, if for some reason you want to use them for tanking (I know Camerupt largely outclasses both for a tank), Magmar can use Eviolite to give it much better defenses overall. Also, Magmar's movepool is a good bit more useful, as the only offensive moves Heatmor has over Magmar are Sucker Punch and Shadow Claw, both of which are OK, but Magmar can circumvent this; It has a weaker priority in Mach Punch (Its also more reliable, though) and it can run moves like ThunderPunch or, IDK, Psychic. But seriously, that's really the only thing I see Heatmor doing better than Magmer - Hitting ghosts with Sucker Punch. That's it. I don't think it deserves B-Rank, and I would push it down to either C-Rank or even D-Rank, as Magmar is the better choice overall (which it sits well in C-Rank, therefore Heatmor REALLY shouldn't be in B.) Although, I may be missing something here; I would not reject contrary notions.
  5. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom
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    Well, you're missing the fact that Heatmor gets Giga Drain, for starters.
  6. Menace13

    Menace13

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    I've been testing some of the unranked Pokémon. Wynaut, so far, has been fairly useful; he can Encore a setup move so I can setup Dragon Dance Fraxure or some other sweeper or he can counter attacks and kill shit off. Pretty good. Dunno where to place him yet though. As for Sandshrew, B or C Rank, no higher no lower. He's good, a spinner and a rocks setter, he has good bulk with an eviolite, but he isn't good for much else.
  7. Edricky

    Edricky

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    OK, I didn't notice Giga Drain but how important and game-changing is that? I'm testing out both of them, as I had been since I first posted that inquiry; right now it's been largely inconclusive; I'll edit this post with some testing sprees (using the same team bar Magmar/Heatmor and similar sets) and try and shed light on my question and probably make a fool of my self. But, still, I'm testing them right now, and I brought up a topic I would like helped answered.
  8. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Nozzle (open)
    This cocoon only has one niche. And that niche is hazards. With 40/99/79 defenses and being able to hold an Eviolite, Whirlipede is very hard to take down. It also has Poison Point which can be very annoying. With resistances to Fighting, Grass, Bug and Poison, which are all pretty common in PU, it can set up Spikes or Toxic Spikes on a plethora of Pokémon. Although this is where the good things end. It has no offensive presence whatsoever and is complete Taunt bait. It's weak to Fire, Flying, Rock and Psychic which are very common attacking types and if you get your hazards spun then Whirlipede has basically accomplished nothing throughout the match since it struggles at coming in multiple times due to Stealth Rock weakness and no recovery outside of Rest. It is one of the few (Toxic) Spikers in the tier so it should definitely be considered for a team.


    My grammar is really bad.
    Please note if you see spelling/grammar mistakes.

    I know someone reserved Whirlipede but it has been weeks :s
  9. Magical Magmortar

    Magical Magmortar

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    Decided to redo Girafarig after Agent Dell's suggestions. Sorry it took so long ;)

    Magical Magmortar (open)
    While most players will not see an immediate threat in Girafarig, it certainly can be after some boosts. Girafarig doesn't have the best base stats but it has been blessed with a great move in Baton Pass. With its average base speed, it can outspeed quite a few Pokemon and set up a Substitute. From there, it starts to Calm Mind, and soon it becomes very powerful and bulky. Then you Baton Pass to another Pokemon and it begins its sweep. While this set seems outclassed by Mr. Mime, Girafarig has a few merits over the mime. First of all, Girafarig gets some other set up moves such as Agility. Girafarig can pass Agilities to Pokemon such as Fraxure who can sweep through teams with a +2 in both Attack and Speed after it Swords Dances. Also, Girafarig gets a useful ability in Sap Sipper. Girafarig can switch in on any Grass move and pass a +1 Attack boost to a teammate. Girafarig can run an offensive set, but it is outclassed by other Normal types in the tier. Girafarig is one of the only Baton Passers in the tier, and a certainly good one at that.


    EDIT: Reserving Magmar!
    [​IMG]
    Magical Magmortar (open)
    In PU, Magmar struggles to find a place among PU's biggest threats, such as Fraxure and Golduck. Magmar just seems like a normal Special Fire Type sweeper so what makes Magmar stand out? To start with, Magmar's great ability in Vital Spirit makes Magmar a great sleep absorber. Magmar can switch in on a Sleep Powder from Jumpluff and threaten it with Fire Blast. Magmar also has great coverage in Focus Blast and a Hidden Power of choice, preferably Hidden Power Grass to hit the Water, Ground, and Rock Types that try to come in on Magmar. Magmar does have its flaws, though. Magmar's bad defensive typing means Magmar can not switch in easily on common threats. Magmar also has that crippling Stealth Rock weakness which is bad defensively. A physical set with Belly Drum could work but is outclassed by Rapidash. Overall, Magmar is a great Pokemon in PU and a great sweeper.
  10. col49

    col49 you know I used to try
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    Ok, so I said I would do this at one point or another, so I guess it might as well be now. From my experiences with Volbeat, I can safely say that it is far from C-Rank material. Since I'm pretty awful at relaying information I'll focus on two keys points.
    • Priority Encore is insanely good in this metagame. Unless I've been playing a different tier as the rest of you, the current PU metagame is overwhelmingly focused around a plethora of set-up sweepers. Some of the most potent Pokemon in the tier, including Beheeyem, Fraxure, Golduck, Arbok, Jumpluff, Swoobat, Klang, Simipour, Simisage, and more all perform key roles in the metagame through various forms of set-up, and more still thrive through the use of alternative "set-up" moves such as Substitute. Being able to shift momentum and stop these Pokemon cold with a single well-timed Encore is incredibly useful to almost any team. The fact that the most common priority amongst such 'mons is Sucker Punch, Volbeat can effectively shut down every sweeper in the tier bar Linoone, which in itself limits set-up, as a good player would obviously be wary of this very move. Supplemented by the ability to provide further momentum with either Baton Pass or U-Turn makes Volbeat an absolute menace to play around.
    • Volbeat's ability to support teams is excellent. Not even including the aforementioned ability to deter oppositional set-up, Volbeat is a great team player, supporting offensive and weather-based archetypes like nobodies' business. Weather teams love the ability to set up their weather of choice without fear of being stuffed by Taunt or a fast and powerful attack, and better yet offers a slow U-Turn to allow their Victreebel or Mantine in for "free" (just as examples, mind you). Volbeat's decent bulk (when invested heavily) even allows it to set up weather twice a match on average, which is great since weather teams can otherwise just run out of fuel after a few turns. Being able to pass either Substitutes or Tail Glows is also really nice (I'd say both, but that's pretty unlikely unless the opponent is awful tbh), and granting set-up sweepers that occupy the tier a free turn can sometimes be all they need to clean out a team.

    I'd might push for A-rank, but won't settle for any less than B, it's just too good for that :[
  11. Edricky

    Edricky

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    I've decided I'm going to ignore Heatmor, as it seems capable for some reason (My initial post was Theorymonning if you couldn't tell); It does indeed show capabilities worthy of B-Rank (Although barely IMO), but I'm also confused as to why Magmar did so poorly in comparison - it appears to have more going for it but it apparently doesn't... I was using a set of E-Belt Flare Blitz/T-Punch/Focus Blast/HP Grass, and it did what it was supposed to, but for some reason it was not satisfactory in comparison. I'll be looking at both some more later, though right now I'm preoccupied with Porygon. Who is really cool. lol, But I don't know how good it actually is, So I'm still testing it.
  12. Fabbles

    Fabbles LN_Slayer
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    Thought I'd make another post as I am now 12th on the PU ladder and have a bit of matches under my belt.

    Pawniard has the distinction of being one of the few viable steel types in the PU metagame. While the quadruple weakness to fighting is concerning, Pawniard serves as both a great physical and special check with resistances to Normal, Flying, and Ice attacks and a fantastic immunity to Psychic attacks. Pawniard can utilize Swords Dance and Sucker Punch to make up for its poor speed, but it really shines as a team supporter. Iron Head and Night Slash make a good Stab combination when attacking, and supporting moves such as Thunder Wave and Knock Off are very effective in PU. I would say Pawniard is a C rank pokemon, but definitely at least a D rank.

    I used LO Stoutland, Rapidash, and Stunfisk! to great effect. Most of PU is either slow supporting or set up sweepers, which is why I love to just start right off with the power. LO (or CB) Stoutland definitely needs to see some love, and Stunfisk was effective as a surprisingly powerful attacker with SR as well.

    I also used some pretty lolsy things such as Baton Pass Dodrio / Hypno combo which is quite good because it is very unexpected. I used Bibarel as a suicide lead that can Taunt and set up SR.

    In all I would say a lot of weird stuff like Pawniard definitely has a niche - I believe Sandshrew, Kabuto, Omanyte, Staryu, etc. are really great.
  13. Harbinger of Peace

    Harbinger of Peace

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    When is the list gonna get updated? I've been waiting to see several people's analyses approved. (Mine included lol)
  14. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Apparently everyone can GP check right now.

    Pokemasta77, I haven't used Marshtomp myself but i don't have the feeling you are using it right and you are making it sound amazing which i have the feeling it isn't. It looks like a tank with decent attack, good bulk and nice typing. Rocks are always nice and it can strike back with EQ and Waterfall which has nice coverage. I got to give you that Avalance seems pretty nice. No recovery really hurts it though and RestTalk is unreliable. It also has access to Scald, Roar and of course Toxic which is nice. Counter and Mirror Coat are very gimmicky but can work i guess. I feel like it should be C-Rank.

    Reserving:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Nozzle (open)
    Nothing here yet

    and

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Nozzle (open)
    The first thing that you will notice is that this carnivorous plant has great offenses of 105 base Attack and 100 base Special Attack. Then you will notice it only has average speed. However, Victreebel has several ways to bypass it's speed problem. It was gifted with the ability Chlorophyll. With Chlorophyll it's speed is doubled in Sun and it can fire rapid and strong attacks at the opponent. It also has Growth which, in sun, gives a +2 boost to both Attack and Special Attack. If used in sun it favors a special so it can use strong rapid fire Solarbeam's and make use of Weather Ball which has Fire type coverage in Sun. Sludge Bomb can be used but since it also has access to Sleep Powder which is great for setting up (if it hits). Victreebel can also run a Swords Dance set in or out of the sun with the afromentioned Sleep Powder to ease set-up. Leaf Blade is a great STAB and it has a high crit chance which is nice. Then, to solve it's speed issues, there's Sucker Punch which is great for faster, frail threats who try to pick on Victreebel. However, Victreebel is not without it's faults. It's special set is heavily reliant on sun and thus, needs a lot of support from it's teammates, and if the weather get's changed or nullified by Cloud Nine, it won't accomplish alot due to it's middling speed and below average defenses. It's Swords Dance set isn't as reliant on sun but it's coverage is lackluster. You can drop Sleep Powder for Return to make it's coverage average but it is probably not worth it. Victreebel is a high-risk, high-reward Pokemon and there may be matches where it does absolutely nothing, but it can tear apart whole teams if you manage to pull it off.


    English is a foreign language for me so i basically know there's a lot of grammar and punctuation.
    Feel free to correct them.
  15. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    Yeah, I don't think you're using Marshtomp to the best of its ability. Don't get me wrong, you bring up many points that make Marshtomp a good lead, but you're kind of 'intensifying' the incorrect roles, sort of putting gimmicks like CounterCoat in the forefront. Like I said, you give many great points, but I think it could have been worded better. If no one else minds, I would like to take a swing at Marshtomp.

    [​IMG]

    Leafshield (open)

    Though many NFEs tend to function in a similar fashion to their upper tier parents, Marshtomp isn't the purely defensive lead that Swampert is seen as. In fact, Marshtomp works fantastically as an anti lead of sorts. With even 70 / 70 / 70 defenses, boosted by Eviolite, and a decent base 85 Attack stat, Marshtomp works well as a bulky attacker. Its STABs alone allow it to effortlessly beat many common leads such as Lairon, Graveler, and Relicanth, taking each of them down into Sturdy range with a surprisingly powerful Earthquake or Waterfall. Marshtomp can also run either Avalanche or Ice Punch to decimate common Volbeat or Jumpluff leads who try to U-turn or set up a Sub / SD in your face, predicting you to set up Stealth Rock. Access to Stealth Rock, as mentioned before, makes it an even more effective lead, and moves like Scald, Roar and Toxic help it to support its team with a more defensive set. Its typing even gives it utility in an immunity to Thunder Wave, making it a great pivot against many support Pokémon such as Audino. It's not all fun and games for Marshtomp, though. It's still rather slow, and a glaring x4 weakness to Grass- Type attacks really hurts it when nearly all common Grass-Types outspeed it without investment. This can be played to your advantage, though, by pairing Marshtomp with Sap Sipper abusers like Stantler and Girafarig, giving them a free boost as they come in on the naturally impending Grass-Type move. Marshtomp also faces competition from Relicanth, who also sports a Water- Typing, but has a higher Attack stat, as well as better abilities to choose from. Whether a lure, lead, anti-lead, or attacker, Marshtomp deserves some consideration when making a team.


    EDIT: Edited to emphasize Marshtomp's ability to absorb Electric-Type attacks with its Ground-Typing.
  16. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 59 more til 1k
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    @ Leafshield: I agree with all of your points about Marshtomp, just emphasize its Ground typing a little more. Sorry Pokemasta77, but a lot of what you mention in your write-up is irrelevant or inaccurate. Counter and Mirror Coat may be unexpected and possibly game-changing, but they don't deserve to be mentioned quite so much. Avalanche may make its low Speed less relevant, but negative priority isn't exactly a bonus most of the time either. Also, Marshtomp isn't really cut out to be an all-out attacker even in PU. It is much better as a support Pokemon who can dish out a decent hit occasionally. Focus on its useful traits like its Electric immunity, ability to scare away many common Stealth Rock leads, bulk, and usable offensive presence. Just don't over exaggerate what it can do.
  17. Edricky

    Edricky

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    Okay, so week before last I had been using Porygon and teams centered around Porygon and teams that simply incorporate Porygon and I've decided that Porygon is actually really darn great lol. I've not decided where I would put it, but C is probably a good example but it could easily fit in B; I've not enough experience to place it exactly yet and I don't want to call it out if I'm just gonna get proven wrong anyway (Still inexperienced compared to most of you), but it does have alot going for it. I'd been using a bulky Eviolite spread of 252 hp 252 spatk 4 spdef, pretty basic yeah, but it works. I'd been switching between Trace and Download (Both excellent abilities, although I prefer Trace cause of switch opportunities.) and a useful movepool, which I used Tri Attack/Discharge/Ice Beam/Recover (Pretty much P2 in PU, hehe) so it's pretty good. Normal typing is actually not as bad in PU, as you probly know, 'cause Fighters are less common than in other tiers and the only Normal resists tend to either die early(Lead Giga,Gravel,etc)/are Frail(Ghastly)/only two I know like to stay around(Lairon,Frillish which is important). Really though, punching through Pory is not incredibly difficult and Lairon or Camerupt or Machoke or anything already set up (Watch out for Fraxure) but I think it's still capable either way. A few more battles, a few more opinions, I anticipate your input.
  18. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    Went ahead and edited it a little. Thanks for pointing that stuff out.
  19. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Done Victreebel.
    Will do Relicanth as soon as possible.
  20. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Idk if this thread is still going but we had a few drops a month back. Torterra, Zebstrika, Marowak and Articuno. I am not going in depth atm but i will give the ranks i think they belong in.

    Torterra S/A
    Zebstrika B/A
    Marowak C/B
    Articuno B

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