Project The PU Viability Ranking Thread

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As those of you who have seen my RMT would know (muh shameless self plug), I've been playing around with sun a lot lately, and I think a few Pokemon related to sun should rise a bit.

First of all, I'd like to nominate Victreebel to B+. While it's not really that useful outside of sun, Victreebel is a huge threat on sun teams. Almost nothing outside of dedicated special walls can switch into Victreebel, since Solarbeam, Weather Ball, and Sludge Bomb hits pretty much everything in the tier neutrally, and what can switch in (Lickilicky, SpD Musharna, etc) is crippled by Sleep Powder. There's also the possibility of it running Growth, which gives it serious sweeping potential. What holds it back from being A- worthy is the fact that it's only really good on sun, is revenged easily by Sneasel, and is outsped by faster scarf users even in sun.

Additionally, I could see Sawsbuck rising to A-. Sawsbuck is a lot like Victreebel in that it's really threatening under sunlight. However, unlike Victreebel, it's actually a good Pokemon outside of sun. While not nearly as good as Leafeon was (rip ;_;), Sawsbuck can still be a threatening sweeper thanks to its good Speed, decent bulk, and good STAB combination. Additionally, it can run Substitute in the last slot in order to set up on something that ordinarily counters it in Gourgeist (in a very similar manner to Sub SD Bouffalant, but better against offense). I'm not too passionate on moving it up, but I think it could be worthy of A-.

Finally, I'm going to suggest Carbink to B, although B- is fine too. Carbink is a great sun setter thanks to its access to Stealth Rock, which is otherwise exceedingly hard to fit onto a sun team, and great bulk, which makes it rather hard for most Pokemon to 2HKO, which allows it to set up both Stealth Rock and Sunny Day a lot more easily than Golem can. Comparing this to Volbeat, which is in B right now, both have equally useful niches as sun setters. Carbink can also run a decent Calm Mind set. I haven't used this set, but Detective Dell has used it and found it to be good, so there's that as well.
I guess your team is a fan of Beatles music.

..........................................here are my thoughts:

Due to experience, Victreebel is a pain in the bum if you don't kill him before he sleeps ya, as well as being a good special attacker or mixed attacker, depending if you like knock off and power whip, or prefer to use him in the sun.

While I have not faced Sawsbuck in battle, he seems good under sun with Chlorophyll and also pretty decent for a non-sun team as he has sap sipper, giving him a free switch into grass types that like to use powder moves (watch out for Sludge Bomb Tangela, however). This in tandem with swords dance and good speed make him a threatening attacker even out of the sun.

As for Carbink, even if you plan not to use him as a sun setter, he's pretty decent, nonetheless. Not only does he have Stealth Rock, but he also has access to dual screens. In conjunction with Sturdy and defenses of a Shuckle-wannabe, he can get things done. Also he has trick room, although I'm unsure if that's a viable team strategy in PU.
 
Nominating Glalie for B+/A-
It is an amazing spikes lead for hyper offensive teams having both Taunt and Explosion to stop Rapid Spin and Defog and good enough speed to beat other Leads (kricketune is completely cockblocked for example). Ice stab is also quite cool.

I also feel like Hippopotas (and Stoutland) should be higher (B+ IMO) as Sand has a fantastic matchup against offensive teams that are quite popular in this metagame (and stall doesn't have fun with sand+hazards even moreso if stoutland predicts right) and Hippopotas is not even a bad sr setter whirlwinding the Defogger that try to switch in and checking a decent numbers of weak physical attackers.

My last nomination is Relicanth as while it can look mediocre it is one of the best Sneasel checks and can basically force a sack any time it is out with Choice Band Head Smash. I'd like to see it in B-
 
Not too sure if this is allowed, but I'd like to recommend Staravia (B- or C+)into the list. Yes, its 55/50/40 defenses may seem horrible, but when you add investment, Intimidate, and an Eviolite it becomes a pretty bulky Pokemon. Also, unlike a majority of defensive Defoggers, Staravia gets Roost so it can come in and out multiple times. Feather Dance can stop things from setting up on you, and Brave Bird still does reasonable damage, even when uninvested. Yeah, it's pretty weak on the Special side, but Specially Defensive Piloswine makes a great partner since it's immune / resists Electric and Ice attacks ^^

Calcs
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 125-148 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 94-112 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 35% chance to 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 114-135 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Bouffalant Head Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 138-163 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 127-150 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 132-156 (42 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 168-198 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Take a Stone Edge, Feather Dance it, then Roost up.)

You get the idea
 
Not too sure if this is allowed, but I'd like to recommend Staravia (B- or C+)into the list. Yes, its 55/50/40 defenses may seem horrible, but when you add investment, Intimidate, and an Eviolite it becomes a pretty bulky Pokemon. Also, unlike a majority of defensive Defoggers, Staravia gets Roost so it can come in and out multiple times. Feather Dance can stop things from setting up on you, and Brave Bird still does reasonable damage, even when uninvested. Yeah, it's pretty weak on the Special side, but Specially Defensive Piloswine makes a great partner since it's immune / resists Electric and Ice attacks ^^

Calcs
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 125-148 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 94-112 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 35% chance to 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 114-135 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Bouffalant Head Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 138-163 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 127-150 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 132-156 (42 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 168-198 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Take a Stone Edge, Feather Dance it, then Roost up.)

You get the idea
why would you even consider running a defensive set on a Pokemon that has horrible defensive stats, a mediocre defensive typing that leaves it weak to stealth rock and gives it very few resistances, relies completely on intimidate in order to take a hit from anything, hits like a wet paper bag with no investment, and if it actually does hit something just kills itself in recoil? Not to mention the fact that there are so many great physical walls in PU it isn't even funny, including threats such as Musharna, Gourgeist-XL, Tangela, Togetic, Pelipper, and Poliwrath, as well as physically bulky offensive pokemon such as Golem and Piloswine. Sorry if this response was a little blunt, but I honestly don't see any reason to ever use defensive staravia when you could slap 252 HP / 252 Defense sets onto half of all viable Pokemon in the tier and achieve the same result, not to mention use a pokemon actually suited for the job. Not to mention the fact that Staravia doesn't even wall any of the Pokemon from your calcs except for Scyther, as it can't switch into any of them with SR up without being 2HKOed.
 
I used staravia on Dundeals PU (dont kill me) and I think it is worth D at best (more like D-) Because of its sub roost set with reckless, which is pretty strong (same output as dodrio non band) but outside of that there is little reason to use staravia in general. Shitty typing and lackluster offensive presence outside of reckless (bumps base atk to 99 if I calced correctly) if it is to be ranked, go with D-
 

➞ B+ I feel that articuno should be in B+ for the following reasons: It can take a couple of special hits, can run scarf and hit hard, is good with LO or leftovers, and can be used for support with defog.​
 

➞ B+ I feel that articuno should be in B+ for the following reasons: It can take a couple of special hits, can run scarf and hit hard, is good with LO or leftovers, and can be used for support with defog.​
But then you see the worst defensive typing in the game (because rock weakness) in a tier where SR is omnipresent. Also it only has one actually good set in SubRoost, so it is quite predictable. Keep at B.
 
I agree with a lot of the current viability ratings, but at the same time there is one Pokemon that I believe deserves a lot more recognition then it currently gets. Keeping this Pokemon at a C was shocking to me, so I would have to say this:
Dragonair for C+
This may seem shocking, but a pokemon with good bulk, decent abilities, good attack, and access to Eviolite, Dragon Dance, and Extreme Speed sounds like a good Pokemon, which it is, and it's called Dragonair! It is very bulky with an Eviolite and I am very often able to get around +2 Atk/Spe easily and clean up late game. Shed Skin is amazing because pokemon that try to Toxic/Burn/Paralyze/Sleep Dragonair to stop it's sweeping potential are at a loss for a Pokemon that heals statuses. It deals big damage, and carries powerful moves and, again, Extreme Speed. It has a pretty decent typing in Dragon too, as it resists Grass/Fire/Water/Electric, which are obviously very common.. I really don't see why people do not use this mon. I have found it incredibly reliable for set-up sweeping and late-game clean ups, or just simple revenge kills on Pokemon completely struck down by an Extreme Speed, even if they have priority (Sneasel). I honestly see no real reason why it is anywhere in the range of a C-rank. The lowest I can see it is a B-, which would be for it's lackluster movepool, which limits it to pretty much one set of Dragon Dance / Outrage / Waterfall / Extreme Speed, which wouldn't be so problematic except for the fact that Dragon Claw would be more ideal due to the fact that locking yourself into Outrage isn't always the best thing to do.
 
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Punchshroom

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Having used Dragonair, I can say it has a significant amount of problems. The first is that an offensive set, for the most part, is outdone by Fraxure's far greater power and more useful coverage, while Dragonair usually needs at least two boosts to really get going or it lacks good killing power otherwise. Extreme Speed is nice and all, but to even KO its main target (Sneasel) after a boost, it needs SR and LO recoil, and struggles to be useful against the Eviolite variant, which is rising in popularity. There's also the fact that the best way to even get enough boosts safely is via RestTalking, which eats up slots for coverage moves. Granted, Dragonair's abilities allow it to fend for itself even while asleep and is imo the better Dragonair set to be running in the meta. Even then, Dragonair's staying power is very limited due to the fact that almost every wall in the tier has a way to screw with it: Poliwrath can Circle Throw, Bastiodon can Roar, Avalugg can Roar and kill the shit out of it, Gourgeist can Leech Seed, Lickilicky can Knock Off or Dragon Tail, Vullaby can Knock Off or Foul Play, etc..

Bulky boosting via RestTalk with synergetic abilities means Dragonair has a nice thing going for it, but I feel the meta is a tad too hostile for it atm; I mean even Fraxure is struggling, considering it is at B-, and at least Fraxure or even Altaria don't have to deal with the fact that they must run Outrage (unlike Dragonair) which would open themselves up to the extremely dangerous Fairy-types of the tier, namely Mr. Mime and Togetic, who will not hesitate to use them as setup fodder, which you really do not want. Dragonair requires significantly more support to function than its fellow Dragons in the B/B- Ranks, it should stay where it is in C.
 
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Having used Dragonair, I can say it has a significant amount of problems. The first is that an offensive set, for the most part, is outdone by Fraxure's far greater power and more useful coverage, while Dragonair usually needs at least two boosts to really get going or it lacks good killing power otherwise. Extreme Speed is nice and all, but to even KO its main target (Sneasel) after a boost, it needs SR and LO recoil, and struggles to be useful against the Eviolite variant, which is rising in popularity. There's also the fact that the best way to even get enough boosts safely is via RestTalking, which eats up slots for coverage moves. Granted, Dragonair's abilities allow it to fend for itself even while asleep and is imo the better Dragonair set to be running in the meta. Even then, Dragonair's staying power is very limited due to the fact that almost every wall in the tier has a way to screw with it: Poliwrath can Circle Throw, Bastiodon can Roar, Avalugg can Roar and kill the shit out of it, Gourgeist can Leech Seed, Lickilicky can Knock Off or Dragon Tail, Vullaby can Knock Off or Foul Play, etc..

Bulky boosting via RestTalk with synergetic abilities means Dragonair has a nice thing going for it, but I feel the meta is a tad too hostile for it atm; I mean even Fraxure is struggling, considering it is at B-, and at least Fraxure or even Altaria don't have to deal with the fact that they must run Outrage (unlike Dragonair) which would open themselves up to the extremely dangerous Fairy-types of the tier, namely Mr. Mime and Togetic, who will not hesitate to use them as setup fodder, which you really do not want. Dragonair requires significantly more support to function than its fellow Dragons in the B/B- Ranks, it should stay where it is in C.
That is a legitimate and good argument, however, I believe Dragonair deserves at least a C+, instead of being stuck in C with Pokemon like Pidgeot, Wormadam-T, and Meganium.
 

Punchshroom

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That is a legitimate and good argument, however, I believe Dragonair deserves at least a C+, instead of being stuck in C with Pokemon like Pidgeot, Wormadam-T, and Meganium.
Perhaps, though I can argue that the C+ Pokes don't find themselves troubled by the rest of the meta as much as Dragonair or need as much support to function (and even then RestTalk won't always work out). I did like a DD RestTalk + Dragon Tail variant of Dragonair though, since it can go for neutral priority phazing and not worry about opponents like Musharna or Ninetales setting up alongside it or prevent slower foes like Poliwrath from phasing it out. It essentially acts as a status absorber, a check to special setup sweepers (bar Mr. Mime cos fuk that thing), and has anti-phasing to go along with its boosting, though it can be reliant on good Sleep Talk / Shed Skin rolls to get that going properly. I wouldn't be opposed to C+, but it shouldn't go higher.
 
But then you see the worst defensive typing in the game (because rock weakness) in a tier where SR is omnipresent. Also it only has one actually good set in SubRoost, so it is quite predictable. Keep at B.
No hyperboles please. There are quite a few worse types than ice/flying, which is for the record an amazing offensive type that Articuno can take advantage of with its STAB moves.
I also support Articuno for B+.
 
No hyperboles please. There are quite a few worse types than ice/flying, which is for the record an amazing offensive type that Articuno can take advantage of with its STAB moves.
I also support Articuno for B+.
There is no typing worse in PU, since it is weak to many key offensive types like fire and rock, while not resisting anything cool, not even the omnipresent water types. Yes it has a cool stab But its best move misses way to much. (Frezee dry is weak af)
 
Well you brought up it using its amazing STABs. Hurricane isn't reliable when you are using Articuno and it can't miss much due to its lackluster typing. Freeze Dry as said allows it to hit the water types, but it will probably be weak as fuck. Ice Beam still does a decent chunk to Pokemon like Pelipper and Swanna. Also it's not like Freeze Dry is KOing water type Pokemon in the tier like Lapras or something. Oh yeah, Ice Flying is a terrible typing. PU is limited with Rapid Spinners / Defoggers so hazards are always a problem. i.e; Stealth Rock.
 

SamuelTheBest

Banned deucer.


Avalugg need to be moved on b+ rank

he's very bulky,probbably the best psychical wall of PU.the PU psychical chansey

Avalugg@Leftovers
Avalance,curse,recover,mirror coat,252 hp/252 def or attack/4 def or attack
this set is
Rapid spin is not needed,sturdy + rapid spin for rocks..is not really awesome ._. he can die with a special when he spin
with another defogger/Spinner in the team,he can work without rapid spin
he got 45 base spd,but with mirror coat it's a kill,if he still got sturdy

Calcs with 252 hp 252 def avalugg:
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Avalugg: 105-125 (26.6 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Throh Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Avalugg on a critical hit: 128-152 (32.4 - 38.5%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Avalugg: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO,3HKO counting the x0,67 attack after a superpower
after curse:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Stone Edge vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Avalugg: 252-299 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

calcs with 252 attack after curse and recover spam:
+2 252 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Stoutland: 595-702 (190.7 - 225%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 316-374 (108.9 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO(yes,Avalugg is used also with EQ,but not much)
 
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Avalugg need to be moved on b+ rank

he's very bulky,probbably the best psychical wall of PU.the PU psychical chansey

Avalugg@Leftovers
Avalance,curse,recover,mirror coat,252 hp/252 def or attack/4 def or attack
this set is
Rapid spin is not needed,sturdy + rapid spin for rocks..is not really awesome ._. he can die with a special when he spin
with another defogger/Spinner in the team,he can work without rapid spin
he got 45 base spd,but with mirror coat it's a kill,if he still got sturdy

Calcs with 252 hp 252 def avalugg:
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Avalugg: 105-125 (26.6 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Throh Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Avalugg on a critical hit: 128-152 (32.4 - 38.5%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Avalugg: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO,3HKO counting the x0,67 attack after a superpower
after curse:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Stone Edge vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Avalugg: 252-299 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

calcs with 252 attack after curse and recover spam:
+2 252 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Stoutland: 595-702 (190.7 - 225%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 316-374 (108.9 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO(yes,Avalugg is used also with EQ,but not much)
I've used Avalugg for quite some time now and I'm gonna disagree when you said he's not a great spinner. This Ice-Table thing is a fantastic spinner on my team. Sure, he takes 25% from stealth rock, but given that he switches on a physical mon, he can take the hit, recover, and remove the hazards. He doesn't even care about sticky web since he's pretty much an inanimate object when it comes to speed.

For my set I go with specially defensive. Mirror Coat can be too risky even if he does have sturdy. Fully investing in HP and SpD makes him able to take a couple of hits from special attackers, although I might be making a scrub error there.

I see no reason to use Curse. With the unholy amount of circle throwers and roar users in this tier, he is pretty much bait for those types.

I recommend using EQ in tandem with Avalanche as he could use some more coverage than just an ice-attack.

Did I mention how much of a piloswine counter this guy is? Because he is. It's not even funny. Even uninvested in Def, Avalugg only takes about 12% after an EQ. He can remove any rocks Piloswine sets up and can outlast him with recover.
 
I like how Dusknoir and Slaking are below Delibird
Slaking isn't viable at all. Yeah he's fast, has good bulk and OHKOs a small portion of the metagame, but Truant makes him useless on anything that has Protect or Substitute. That alone makes him not viable, hence E-rank. Not to mention everybody knows you will switch on the 2nd turn, so it's a free turn for the opponent to set up on you.

I'm not sure if he'll even be viable in PU2 tbh.
 
Lol you're missing some of the biggest downsides Rampardos has always had, namely its terribad speed combined with terribad defenses. It doesn't provide any defensive benefit to a team despite being a Rock-type (which are supposed to effectively fend off Normal- and Flying-types). Its movepool, including Sheer Force boosted special attacks, is very useful against slower Pokemon, but it is still very slow and has very limited use against faster teams. Plus it's not like Rampardos is the only physical attacker in the tier that beats Avalugg.
You are abusing the word "terribad". Speed does not matter for a wallbreaker.
 
Something I've been looking at recently is Honedge. Has a great typing, and Ok stats to be able to run a similar set Doublade runs in RU while being a good spin blocker for Offensive teams. Honedge also does an excellent job against Musharna as Musharna would have to set up in order to do great damage against it. Honedge can get up and SD though then attack with Shadow Claw. Due to its Physical Defense it can set up on Pokemon like Metang / Relicanth and some others. I would probably start it around a D / D+ and see how it goes from there. Back to hazard removal, with Defog being a popular hazard removal, Honedge has a niche in being able to block rapid spins due to its ghost typing. Honedge also can beat one of the better defensive defoggers in Togetic. I'll continue to do more testing etc. (inb4 bashed)

Sorry for double post.
Honedge: Unranked --> D / D+
 
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Recently I've been playing a lot of PU, enough to bump past 1370 this evening. Having played as much as I have, I feel Solrock deserves a SERIOUS bump in ranking, perhaps even as high as B- rank. I believe Solrock deserves a ranking bump due to his respectable defenses, access to a moderately fast Will-O-Wisp, instant recovery courtesy of Morning Sun, access to Stealth Rock support, and the ability to explode in a pinch, preventing rapid spin of the set rocks, and Levitate. Levitate, Will-O-Wisp, and Morning Sun are all unique moves for a rock-type in the tier, leaving Solrock as the only available physically defensive rock-type with access to instant recovery, a Ground immunity, and Will-O-Wisp. Thanks to his psychic typing, Solrock is also neutral to fighting-type, although he gains an unfortunate weakness to knock off and the rare mega horn.

He is also viable as a Life Orbed rock polish/baton pass user, although this set is much more niche.

tl;dr solrock is a defensive rock type with will-o-wisp, instant recovery, and levitate, all of which are unique traits and make him viable on many bulky offense or stall teams.
 
As much as I'm really not a fan of it, Avalugg has been giving my team the business lately. The bulk is seriously real, and he's actually a very reliable spinner with proper support. I think it's time to move it up to A-/A finally.

Could just be my current team composition, where I really only have Toxic stalling (via stallbreaker Vigoroth) and Electrode to deal with it effectively.

Really though
+4 252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 181-214 (46 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The bulk is REAL.
 
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