Project The PU Viability Ranking Thread

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Beheeyem to B+/A- Sure mushy and kafabra exist but the thing is that the comparison of them is apples to oranges if anything mr mime is very similar to beheeyem, both having access to similar coverage and boosting moves. The thing that sperates then from each other is analytic for beheeyem and dual typing plus speed and somewhat technician for mr mime. This might make mr mime sound like the better choice but choice specs beheeyem is imo one of the best wallbreakers in the current metagame due to forcing so many switches, hitting nearly all switchins even resistances hard via analytic. Mr Mime on the other hand has tools like technician hidden power and stab dazzling gleam which can nail dark types.
Question: Would Nasty Plot / Recover / Coverage moves be viable for Beheeyem? Or would that leaving him coveting the two moves he has to forgo?
 

Ares

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Question: Would Nasty Plot / Recover / Coverage moves be viable for Beheeyem? Or would that leaving him coveting the two moves he has to forgo?
The problem with Nasty Plot and Recover together is that you will find yourself rarely being able to use both, tbh I would say one or the other. And the reason you will find yourself only being able to use one is because of Beheeyems speed, you Nasty Plot on the switch get hit hard and KO something and then you are easily revenged. Or you use recover when forcing a switch so it can come in multiple times.
 

Anty

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Beheeyem to B+/A- Sure mushy and kafabra exist but the thing is that the comparison of them is apples to oranges if anything mr mime is very similar to beheeyem, both having access to similar coverage and boosting moves. The thing that sperates then from each other is analytic for beheeyem and dual typing plus speed and somewhat technician for mr mime. This might make mr mime sound like the better choice but choice specs beheeyem is imo one of the best wallbreakers in the current metagame due to forcing so many switches, hitting nearly all switchins even resistances hard via analytic. Mr Mime on the other hand has tools like technician hidden power and stab dazzling gleam which can nail dark types.
These assume the target is switching in:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Musharna: 356-420 (81.6 - 96.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 228-268 (53.7 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 260-308 (83 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 192-226 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 207-244 (76.3 - 90%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Misdreavus: 246-289 (75.9 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Tangela: 274-324 (82 - 97%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Bastiodon: 117-138 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 385-454 (102.9 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gourgeist-Super: 264-312 (70.5 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I dont think beheeyems specs set is enough to warrant it any higher (trick wouldnt be bad on specs either for bastiodon), it receives stiff competition from other psychic types (lower bulk than mush, lower speed than kadabra, no secondary typing), i think its main niche is its OTR set (offensive nasty plot). It is hard to get in and smack pokes around with specs, its slow, can easily be revenge kill'd/forced out easily especcially if its locked into a move (a mighteyena gets hungry every time a beheeyem gets sent out).

Trick room sets take advantage of its low speed and can tear through offensive teams even without boosting, with nasty plot you can even destroy stall. Im not 100% sure what coverage though, psychic stab obviously, with nasty plot i prefer hp fight, how ever two coverage can work (like signal beam, tbolt or hpground or something).

Not sure on octillery, but you cannot guarantee water spout will be max power. You also seem to mention the best parts and best situations, specs is very easy to play around and requires more prediction than it seems, you cannot assume you predict correct and smack poliwrath on the switch.
 

Ares

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I dont think beheeyems specs set is enough to warrant it any higher (trick wouldnt be bad on specs either for bastiodon), it receives stiff competition from other psychic types (lower bulk than mush, lower speed than kadabra, no secondary typing), i think its main niche is its OTR set (offensive nasty plot). It is hard to get in and smack pokes around with specs, its slow, can easily be revenge kill'd/forced out easily especcially if its locked into a move (a mighteyena gets hungry every time a beheeyem gets sent out).

Trick room sets take advantage of its low speed and can tear through offensive teams even without boosting, with nasty plot you can even destroy stall. Im not 100% sure what coverage though, psychic stab obviously, with nasty plot i prefer hp fight, how ever two coverage can work (like signal beam, tbolt or hpground or something).

Not sure on octillery, but you cannot guarantee water spout will be max power. You also seem to mention the best parts and best situations, specs is very easy to play around and requires more prediction than it seems, you cannot assume you predict correct and smack poliwrath on the switch.
The main thing that Beheeyem has going for it is Analytic which pretty much is activated every time it attacks due to its low speed or the switch. This makes Beheeyem hit like a truck and can be a serious issue for offensive teams who dont have a good switch in.
 

Anty

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The main thing that Beheeyem has going for it is Analytic which pretty much is activated every time it attacks due to its low speed or the switch. This makes Beheeyem hit like a truck and can be a serious issue for offensive teams who dont have a good switch in.
Im not going to lie, i didnt think about that, but i still feel otr deserves a mention. It is hard to get in and somewhat easy to force out, whilst otr lets it stay is and crush certain pokes who try and stop it:
252+ SpA Life Orb Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tauros: 398-468 (136.7 - 160.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scyther: 320-378 (113.8 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 214-253 (76.1 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Analytic Beheeyem Signal Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasel: 377-445 (150.1 - 177.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It puts in a lot of work vs offensive teams (can sweep late game) and doesnt make it set up fodder if locked into a bad move.

Im not sure if it should move up still, maybe to b (it can be compared to altaria in which they have a similar viability), whilst b+ is too high, pokes like swanna/raichu also have strength, whilst speed and or support (np raichu has a higher chance to sweep than np beheeyem
 

The Leprechaun

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Hey guys, I've been playing a lot of PU recently and there are quite a few ranks i disagree with but here are the ones that i feel the most strongly about.

Misdreavus up to A. I've been using the defensive stallbreaker set from bw2 nu and honestly it's been one of the most consistently high performing pokes I've used. Its ability to ruin teams with taunt + wisp combo it's absolutely invaluable. When looking at the at the a and s ranks, only lickilicky, haunter, flareon and, to an extent, sneasel consistently come out well when facing it one on one. All other mons are burned, taunted, hit hard by stab/ foul play or all of the above rendering them useless or crippled to a large extent. It's only cons which hold it back from A+/ rank imo is its lack of staying power as its only recovery is pain split. On top of having this set, Missy can run sub calm mind/ nasty plot sets which show off its offensive prowess or run a number of other support options such as destiny bond or perish song. Definitely deserving of a higher rank.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Barbaracle Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 218-260 (67.2 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 129-153 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Pelipper up to A-. It should be already obvious that hazards are extremely powerful in this tier, with great hazard setters such as garbodor, roselia, kriketune, omanyte and uhh dwebble finding their place in many teams. Because of hazards prevalence, it seems that defoggers and spinners are under-represented in this viability rankings as togetic is the only mon in the above b+ rank capable of hazard control. This makes very little sense as pelliper actually has similar bulk when leftovers is taken into account and takes on the main hazard setters far better. For example, togetic will lose to pretty much all the common stealth rock setters in the tier (Golem, Piloswine, Marowak) whereas pelipper can scare them out with scald. Similarly, togetic has no hope defogging against garbodor, especially suicide lead variants which can dish out huge damage with max attack gunk shot. When you also consider that pelliper can take on some of the best mons in the tier like sneasel, huntail and poliwrath it seems obvious to me that water bird should be in the a ranks.

Mr Mime down to B+. Mime looks as if it should be good in this tier. It has great offensive typing, decent speed, good special attack, a good offensive ability in technician and good support moves. But when in practice it always under-performs because of how unkind the meta is to it. Despite being the lowest tier, PU is actually quite a bit faster than say, RU or UU even before you start to count the masses of priority in the tier. Out of the 30 mons in A rank, there are 7 which out speed it and a further 5 who have powerful priority. Mime's appalling physical bulk means that even non stabbed physical priority does huge damage and its relatively poor defensive typing only makes it harder to do any work with an offensive set. With fast physical mons being standard on any balance team let alone offensive teams, it's really hard to justify mime's place in an A rank.

Serperior up to A. This i don't feel as strongly about but serp has been so so good for me. Its massive speed, fantastic bulk and decent typing make it deadly after one or two calm minds. Its ability to get a boost in overgrow is so useful it's saved me many times. Of course with a few mons like sneasel and roselia being in the tier its effectiveness is compromised but the fact that it can make so many mons that should check it set-up fodder with sub and calm mind, it should be considered for A rank.

There are a lot of rankings in this thread which i think are absolute jokes like Dusclops being that low, Swoobat being that high, but i really don't care enough to make full posts about them.

O and i agree with rotom f being A, it's the best revenge killer in the tier and should be A+.

edit: lmao why is raichu above zebstrika
 
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Ares

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Because Zebstrika sucks
Raichu has many things over zeb. It has coverage, higher spatk (physical Zeb is shit anyways), a way to boost its spatk and it can run HP ice without loosing to Golem and the smashers
Well saying the zebra doesnt have coverage is just wrong lol, it gets great coverage running a special set with Tbolt, Volt Switch, Overheat, and HP Grass. Just wish it had a broader physical move pool.
 
Well saying the zebra doesnt have coverage is just wrong lol, it gets great coverage running a special set with Tbolt, Volt Switch, Overheat, and HP Grass. Just wish it had a broader physical move pool.
But besides from Overheat and Sap Sipper, Zebstrika has nothing over Raichu, as it gets access to Grass Knot, Nasty Plot, Knock Off and Focus Blast. And 80 SpA isn't really threatening.
 
One thing that Zebstrika has is a godly speed tier, outspeeding Sneasel, Serperior, Purugly and other large metagame threats, but aside from its access to Overheat and Sap Sipper, Raichu does most things better thanks to its outstanding movepool. Raichu hits harder outside of Overheat since Volt Tackle outdamages Zeb's Wild Charge and it has a higher Sp. Atk with great coverage moves like Grass Knot, Focus Blast and Surf to rely on as well as Knock Off on the physical side to cripple Eviolite Pokemon and certain special walls. Raichu is deserving of being ranked higher than Zebstrika, though Zebstrika is a very useful Pokemon as well thanks to that Speed tier.
 
Mr Mime down to B+. Mime looks as if it should be good in this tier. It has great offensive typing, decent speed, good special attack, a good offensive ability in technician and good support moves. But when in practice it always under-performs because of how unkind the meta is to it. Despite being the lowest tier, PU is actually quite a bit faster than say, RU or UU even before you start to count the masses of priority in the tier. Out of the 30 mons in A rank, there are 7 which out speed it and a further 5 who have powerful priority. Mime's appalling physical bulk means that even non stabbed physical priority does huge damage and its relatively poor defensive typing only makes it harder to do any work with an offensive set. With fast physical mons being standard on any balance team let alone offensive teams, it's really hard to justify mime's place in an A rank.
Mr. Mime's physical bulk shouldnt overshadow its Godly movepool.

Mr. Mime has:
-coveted fairy typing
-access to focus blast
-healing wish, and the speed to abuse it
-Nasty Plot and baton pass
-some other miscellaneous tools im too lazy to mention

His versitility is why he should remain a- rank, not because random quick attacks kill it.

Edit: also counters chatot
 
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Punchshroom

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Is healing wish really that useful to take up a move slot? I feel more like Mr. Mime having encore would be more useful.
Mr. Mime has utility moves up the wazoo, such as Taunt, Encore, Healing Wish, Nasty Plot, Baton Pass, etc. Different moves fit different teams, and how easily Mr. Mime can fit on these teams factors into its viability.
 
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Cottonee from unranked to C-/D+
Prioriry Memento and Leech Seed are enough to give it a niche. Things like SD Sneasel or CM Swoobat have few chance to set up, but thanks to Memento they can do it againts much more threats. Memento is more hard to play around than Duals Screens and take a less move slot.

Leavanny from B to C-
She is bad, i dont want to see it this much in the ladder, the defogers and Avalugg stop she so easly. I dont know any reason to use it over Kricke to be honest.
Well Well Well...

I gotta Agree in Cottonee going to D+ because it actually does have a little niche in going down with that priority Memento, allowing a huge portion of the meta (Like NP Simipour, NP Ninetales, NP Chatot, NP Raichu, SS Carracosta, SS Barbaracle, SD Sneasel, SD Scyther, and a lot more...) to set up easily and then clear the field... it can also be kinda "game saver" if you just mispredict and let a Rampardos, Carracosta or Barbaracle get some annoying speed boosts with Stun Spore... Yeah it has ZERO offensive power but Whimsicott isn't exactly a powerhouse and it does it's job pretty well.

But i really disagree on Leavanny... The reason to use it is clear to me... It has better speed than Kricketune in the first place, which means that it can set Web before getting taunted by Glalie and other setters and also do a lot of damage to some of the more frequent SR users in the Tier like Golem, Piloswine and Carracosta, also dealing quickly with Barbaracle using Leaf Blade... Finally even Sneasel and Musharna have some problems switching in thanks to a weakness to Leavanny Bug STAB...

Of course... Avalugg scares the heck out of this thing but... That doesn't means that it doesn't do a nice job... At least enought of the actual ranking it have...

Finally... i didn't see Fletchling in the rankings... And i think it should... Since isn't exactly "amazingly powerful" but it can setup a SD against Web Setters and another defensive or grass pokemon and then beat them with Priority Acrobatics... I Think it shoud start with a D and then see if it can get higher...

Cya!
 

fx

moon tourism
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Leavanny B -> B+

With it's complimentary ability chlorophyll and a pretty great attack stat, Leavanny is one of PU's best physical sweepers. It has an amazing niche for taking out those strong sweepers like Barbaracle and Basculine. Once sun is set up, leavanny out-speeds almost every major speedy threat in the tier. The STAB combo of Leaf-blade and X-scissor easily wipes out bulky A+/S ranks like Carracosta and Musharna. Top it off with life orb and you got a dangerous threat to almost the whole tier. The only thing crippling my ratings on Leavanny is that pesky 4x weakness to fire. But aside from that, it manages to pull through and even one-up Sun set victreebell and Scyther in speed and in power.
 
But i really disagree on Leavanny... The reason to use it is clear to me... It has better speed than Kricketune in the first place, which means that it can set Web before getting taunted by Glalie and other setters and also do a lot of damage to some of the more frequent SR users in the Tier like Golem, Piloswine and Carracosta, also dealing quickly with Barbaracle using Leaf Blade... Finally even Sneasel and Musharna have some problems switching in thanks to a weakness to Leavanny Bug STAB...

Of course... Avalugg scares the heck out of this thing but... That doesn't means that it doesn't do a nice job... At least enought of the actual ranking it have...
Meh, when you see Leavanny in the team preview you dont start with Golem, and Lea cannot defeat Golem anyway, cause she get STAB Rock Blast in the face. Pilo doesnt have sturdy, but can survive leaf blade and kill you with her Ice-stab, and carra can survive a Leaf Blade thanks to solid rock and you have to take Stone Edge and Aqua Jet from some variants of the SR set. At least Kricke can use Taunt against Defogers and give problems to spinners using Endeavor and Knock Off (wart and ava are trash without an item).
 

Punchshroom

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Leavanny B -> B+

With it's complimentary ability chlorophyll and a pretty great attack stat, Leavanny is one of PU's best physical sweepers. It has an amazing niche for taking out those strong sweepers like Barbaracle and Basculine. Once sun is set up, leavanny out-speeds almost every major speedy threat in the tier. The STAB combo of Leaf-blade and X-scissor easily wipes out bulky A+/S ranks like Carracosta and Musharna. Top it off with life orb and you got a dangerous threat to almost the whole tier. The only thing crippling my ratings on Leavanny is that pesky 4x weakness to fire. But aside from that, it manages to pull through and even one-up Sun set victreebell and Scyther in speed and in power.
I would imagine the bigger thing holding Leavanny back as a sweeper is like, I don't know, 4 types resisting its dual STABs, not counting dual-types. The likes of Sawsbuck, Torterra, and Scyther give it severe competition as Swords Dance sweepers that have a lot more to work with than just their STAB combo, such as having actual coverage or superior bulk / speed. Even as a Chlorophyll sweeper it still competes with Sawsbuck, but now Victreebel (especially Victreebel) can rival or completely outclass it in terms of killing power. Also, the only way it "one-ups" Scyther in power is if it holds a Life Orb and Scyther does not, but that's usually because the latter would be too busy holding Eviolite, when it can easily go LO or Choice Band.

You say its niche is having effective dual STABs against Costa and Musharna? Well I can probably use something like, I dunno, a Swords Dance Serperior with Knock Off that can do much the same thing Leavanny can do, except it has a shitton more speed to check threats (such as the Basculin you mentioned which outspeeds Leavanny) and more freedom with its moveset with moves like Taunt or Aqua Tail, which are moves that let it beat things like Gourgeist and Fire-types, which Leavanny cannot do.

Keep Leavanny in B, it's lucky to even be that high as it is as a Web user in general, but it can at the very least fend off certain hazard removers such as Wartortle and Lumineon that Kricketune cannot fend off, can evade Taunt and sleep moves with Magic Coat, and I've even surprised my fair share of Avaluggs with Leaf Storm which easily 2HKOes physically defensive variants (once Avaluggs go specially defensive, which they likely should, this advantage becomes moot). Leavanny should definitely not rise due to its abilities as a Swords Dance user.
 
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Meh, when you see Leavanny in the team preview you dont start with Golem, and Lea cannot defeat Golem anyway, cause she get STAB Rock Blast in the face. Pilo doesnt have sturdy, but can survive leaf blade and kill you with her Ice-stab, and carra can survive a Leaf Blade thanks to solid rock and you have to take Stone Edge and Aqua Jet from some variants of the SR set. At least Kricke can use Taunt against Defogers and give problems to spinners using Endeavor and Knock Off (wart and ava are trash without an item).
I would imagine the bigger thing holding Leavanny back as a sweeper is like, I don't know, 4 types resisting its dual STABs, not counting dual-types. The likes of Sawsbuck, Torterra, and Scyther give it severe competition as Swords Dance sweepers that have a lot more to work with than just their STAB combo, such as having actual coverage or superior bulk / speed. Even as a Chlorophyll sweeper it still competes with Sawsbuck, but now Victreebel (especially Victreebel) can rival or completely outclass it in terms of killing power. Also, the only way it "one-ups" Scyther in power is if it holds a Life Orb and Scyther does not, but that's usually because the latter would too busy holding Eviolite, when it can easily go LO or Choice Band.

You say its niche is having effective dual STABs against Costa and Musharna? Well I can probably use something like, I dunno, a Swords Dance Serperior with Knock Off that can do much the same thing Leavanny can do, except it has a shitton more speed and more freedom with its moveset with moves like Taunt or Aqua Tail, which are moves that let it beat things like Gourgeist and Fire-types, which Leavanny cannot do.

Keep Leavanny in B, it's lucky to even be that high as it is as a Web user in general, but it can at the very least fend off certain hazard removers such as Wartortle and Lumineon that Kricketune cannot fend off, can evade Taunt and sleep moves with Magic Coat, and I've even surprised my fair share of Avaluggs with Leaf Storm which easily 2HKOes physically defensive variants (once Avaluggs go specially defensive, which they likely should, this advantage becomes moot). Leavanny should definitely not rise due to its abilities as a Swords Dance user.
I think like Punchshroom... Leavanny doesn't need to rise at all... but i think it can pull it's weight enough to be considered "B"

252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Leavanny: 306-366 (86.4 - 103.3%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO

Then, considering that Rock Blast have a 10% Miss Chance and that 2 Hits (33.75%) doesn't get the OHKO and also 93,7% of 3Hits Rock Blast neither get the coveted OHKO (31,62%) we have a total posibility of surviving the Rock Blast of 75,37%... not bad huh? and then you can get Golem down to Sturdy since:

0 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Golem: 316-376 (104.6 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In the Next Turn that Golem will be pretty puzzled since you can just Attack it again to beat it while it try to beat Leavanny or yu can even set Web to avoid the Sucker Punch... then you "almost" deal with Golem, Set Webs and avoid SR...

While i have to admit that Pilo can beat it thanks to eviolite and heavy investment in physical defense, Carra can only whitstand the hit thanks to Sturdy or Solid Rock, unless you decide to go offensive with Leavanny in which case:
232 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 291-345 (100.3 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Which means that even if isn't "a huge boon" at least being able to scare some SR and SS Users in the first turns while you get your web in, i think it's pretty handy for some teams...

And i also think that Leavanny's weakness to Flying is worst than the Fire one, since there are a lot of pokés in the Tier with Flying moves...
 

Punchshroom

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I don't think that Sticky Web Leavanny should really bother with Leaf Blade at all.

252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 204-240 (50.49 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Leavanny Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 288-338 (71.28 - 83.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 225-264 (64.1 - 75.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Leavanny Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Carracosta: 606-714 (172.64 - 203.41%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 58-69 (14.75 - 17.55%) -- 9HKO at best (LOL)
252 SpA Leavanny Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Avalugg: 256-303 (65.13 - 77.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 186-222 (48.43 - 57.81%) -- 49.61% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Leavanny Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 308-366 (80.2 - 95.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Marowak: 234-276 (86.34 - 101.84%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Leavanny Leaf Storm vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Marowak: 342-404 (126.19 - 149.07%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against almost every relevant target, Leaf Storm proves to be superior overall. Bug Buzz might as well be the Bug move to use alongside Leaf Storm since it will destroy Tangela, though uninvested X-Scissor does 2HKOes Mr. Mime so that can be fun too.
 
I think like Punchshroom... Leavanny doesn't need to rise at all... but i think it can pull it's weight enough to be considered "B"

252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Leavanny: 306-366 (86.4 - 103.3%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO

Then, considering that Rock Blast have a 10% Miss Chance and that 2 Hits (33.75%) doesn't get the OHKO and also 93,7% of 3Hits Rock Blast neither get the coveted OHKO (31,62%) we have a total posibility of surviving the Rock Blast of 75,37%... not bad huh? and then you can get Golem down to Sturdy since:

0 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Golem: 316-376 (104.6 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In the Next Turn that Golem will be pretty puzzled since you can just Attack it again to beat it while it try to beat Leavanny or yu can even set Web to avoid the Sucker Punch... then you "almost" deal with Golem, Set Webs and avoid SR...

While i have to admit that Pilo can beat it thanks to eviolite and heavy investment in physical defense, Carra can only whitstand the hit thanks to Sturdy or Solid Rock, unless you decide to go offensive with Leavanny in which case:
232 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 291-345 (100.3 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Which means that even if isn't "a huge boon" at least being able to scare some SR and SS Users in the first turns while you get your web in, i think it's pretty handy for some teams...

And i also think that Leavanny's weakness to Flying is worst than the Fire one, since there are a lot of pokés in the Tier with Flying moves...
First than nothing, that isnt the SR Costa set, and Leaf Storm is better against the solid rock set.
And 10% chance to miss isnt important, or only because Kingler can miss a Crabhammer you call Flareon a check?
Oh, and you have a 50% to survive the next turn against Golem and your opponent have a defoger with full health. And i say it again, when you see a Leavanny, you dont use Golem against she.
And pilo doesnt need heavy investment, 252 HP is more than enought to give you problems, useless you attack 2 times and dont use Stiky Web.




Anyway, the offensive set in sun can be enought reason to keep she in B i guess, but i dont have much experience with or against it, hmm, But i dunno, sounds high for me. The sun set is so niche and the Stiky web is pretty bad most of the time and have heavy competition with Kricke who is better against Spinners and defogers.
 
First than nothing, that isnt the SR Costa set, and Leaf Storm is better against the solid rock set.
And 10% chance to miss isnt important, or only because Kingler can miss a Crabhammer you call Flareon a check?
Oh, and you have a 50% to survive the next turn against Golem and your opponent have a defoger with full health. And i say it again, when you see a Leavanny, you dont use Golem against she.
And pilo doesnt need heavy investment, 252 HP is more than enought to give you problems, useless you attack 2 times and dont use Stiky Web.

Anyway, the offensive set in sun can be enought reason to keep she in B i guess, but i dont have much experience with or against it, hmm, But i dunno, sounds high for me. The sun set is so niche and the Stiky web is pretty bad most of the time and have heavy competition with Kricke who is better against Spinners and defogers.
I dunno why i kept forgetting about Leaf Storm xD

Well... and then you are giving me some points... because obviously Golem will not get in a Lead Matchup against Leavanny, which means that you should be getting the Web in... Defog Users are really annoying to it? yup, i'm not denying that... if Lea could have a way to deal with them, it will be "A" material for sure...

Regarding Piloswine, what i was wanting to say was that Pilo usually does run heavy Physical Defensive investment (at least that's what i've been seeing) which means that even if uses a super effective Leaf Blade, i was completely wrong saying that Leavanny could beat it (Even Leaf Storm doesn't get the 2HKO)...

And a 10% of miss is kinda important when you add it to a 65% of surviving the OHKO from Rock Blast... Focus Miss could be a lot more threatening in the whole game just with that aditional 10% in accuracy...

Finally my opinion about Leavanny is...
It should be higher than B? nope...
It should be lower than B or B-? nope...
It should be higher or lower than Kricketune? nope...

I think it does have enough merit to be where it is...
 

MZ

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I know I'm jumping on huge argument late, but here's how I see things. As a web setter, Kricketune is 100% better. Its standard set of taunt/webs/knock off/endeavor is a far better suicide lead set, they both lose to the same things but taunt+endeavor makes it far and away better. As far as offensive sets go, Leavanny... is a little niche. Chlorophyll is outclassed, but it does have a unique dual STAB that's nice offensively. The issue is that it's speed is nice, but not good enough to be sweeping any time soon, especially with its atrocious defensive typing. It has a niche of strong bug STAB and higher attack over Serperior and Sawsbuck as a trade off for worse speed, but just needs a bit more support, which is why it deserves B- Maximum. It should probably be C rank tbh
 
I know I'm jumping on huge argument late, but here's how I see things. As a web setter, Kricketune is 100% better. Its standard set of taunt/webs/knock off/endeavor is a far better suicide lead set, they both lose to the same things but taunt+endeavor makes it far and away better. As far as offensive sets go, Leavanny... is a little niche. Chlorophyll is outclassed, but it does have a unique dual STAB that's nice offensively. The issue is that it's speed is nice, but not good enough to be sweeping any time soon, especially with its atrocious defensive typing. It has a niche of strong bug STAB and higher attack over Serperior and Sawsbuck as a trade off for worse speed, but just needs a bit more support, which is why it deserves B- Maximum. It should probably be C rank tbh
Don't worry... :3 every piece of argument is useful on getting an accurate ranking!

Regarding Leavanny Speed, i think that comparing it against Sawsbuck isn't exactly the best thing since the difference are only 5 Base Points and the only relevant poké that Sawsbuck outspeeds that Leavanny don't is Chatot... and neither of them should be staying on it...

Finally if we see the actual Ranking, Krick is ranked clearly higher than Leavanny... Also, i personally think that is at the level of some of the other B Tier Pokés, besides Avalugg and Simipour that i think should be higher...

Cya!
 

Punchshroom

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Regarding Leavanny Speed, i think that comparing it against Sawsbuck isn't exactly the best thing since the difference are only 5 Base Points and the only relevant poké that Sawsbuck outspeeds that Leavanny don't is Chatot... and neither of them should be staying on it...
Leavanny has 92 Base Speed, meaning it actually outspeeds Chatot. Not like it matters since Leavanny has no good move to hit Chatot with, while Sawsbuck OHKOes with Double-Edge or LO Return.
 
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