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The Return of an Old School Threat

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Adamant Zoroark, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,486
    Once upon a time, in the days of ADV OU, there was a very, very powerful Pokemon. A Pokemon so powerful, there were very few, if any, safe switch-ins to it. Anyone who came across this pokemon was to fear it, and it would smash any team not prepared for it.

    This Pokemon was known as Medicham. With a Choice Band and an Adamant nature, it boasted an unrivaled 720 Attack. Not even Choice Band Salamence could reach its sheer power. It was one of the few physical attackers that would make Skarmory hesitant of switching in. Not even Ghost-types could safely switch in on it, for they would get smashed with a Shadow Ball. So, one may wonder, why does it now lurk in the depths of RU?

    With the advent of DPP, new Fighting-type threats came along. Infernape could singlehandedly smash the once-great Skarmbliss core with little prediction, while Lucario could make any team tremble in fear if, god forbid, it managed to set up a Swords Dance. In addition, Lucario had ExtremeSpeed to get around the faster Pokemon that would have given Medicham so much trouble. Both of these Pokemon could do their jobs while retaining the ability to change moves. Medicham also faced trouble against an old threat with a new toy: Scizor. With the advent of Bullet Punch Scizor, Medicham found it difficult to stand its ground.

    However, in BW2, one battler decided to make an attempt to bring Medicham back to its former glory. This battler was a nobody from the suburbs of San Diego, California. He browsed Smogon under the username LucaroarkZ. This is his story.

    Okay, bad storytelling aside, this is what happens when some crazy person decides to use Medicham in OU:

    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    You're probably wondering why I'm running Tyranitar with Medicham. The reason for this is really incredibly simple: It can trap Jellicent, perhaps the best Medicham switch-in there is. In addition, it prevents Rain sweepers from having free reign over my team, seeing as Tornadus-T can one-shot most of my team. However, I wasn't going to use Stealth Rock Tyranitar; I tried that in BW2 before and it was awful. I use Choice Band Tyranitar because it is far more effective against Politoed and Ninetales than any set. With Scarf Politoed rising in popularity, Tyranitar can find an opportunity to come in on Politoed locked in on an unfavorable move and trap it with Pursuit, effectively removing it from the match. In addition, even if Ninetales decides it wants to burn Tyranitar, CB Stone Edge OHKOes regardless. In addition, you're not switching in any walls on this thing, ever. Skarmory? Lol, 2HKOed by Stone Edge after Stealth Rock. Blissey? Wait, you mean that thing with no physical bulk at all? Ferrothorn? Superpower. Hell, Stone Edge even 2HKOes defensive Politoed, so if that shit wants to come in to change the weather, well, come at me bro!

    [​IMG]

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Heatran is on my team for one reason: A Stealth Rock user that isn't complete dead weight. In addition, Heatran gives me something that can actually beat Genesect, the biggest pain in the ass conceivable. I just run a typical offensive Heatran with Air Balloon because against Gliscor teams, I can play to ensure I keep the Air Balloon intact, while SubToxic Gliscor can't do shit to a Heatran with its Air Balloon intact. With the balloon intact, Heatran can also check Dragon-types such as Dragonite and Salamence easily.

    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake

    I know I already have a Scarf Medicham, but there's one thing Medicham can't really revenge kill: Volcarona. So, I just pack a Choice Scarf Terrakion. Problem solved. In addition, Scarf Salamence is a huge pain in the ass in the current meta, while if Heatran is down, I can easily revenge it with this bad boy. Lucario, although an uncommon threat, gets revenge killed by Terrakion if it lacks Bullet Punch, while I can handle Bullet Punch Lucario with Celebi. X-Scissor lets me handle opposing Celebi, and hit other Psychic-types reliably. Earthquake is mostly filler, but it actually hits the occasional Nidoqueen/Nidoking and Toxicroak.

    [​IMG]

    Medicham @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pure Power
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Ice Punch
    - Psycho Cut
    - Trick

    Medicham gets a shiny sprite because it's just so badass. Anyway, Medicham is so powerful it can function as a revenge killer, late-game sweeper, and wallbreaker at the same time! Huh, can't think of much else that can do that. Hi Jump Kick just hits like a fucking truck; despite using a Jolly nature, it has a good chance of 2HKOing Skarmory after Stealth Rock. Blissey pretty much has to run Protect to get past it, although it helps that the pink blobs seem to be dropping in usage anyway. If Gliscor thinks it can come right on in, nope! Ice Punch. Psycho Cut lets me revenge kill Keldeo, and also hit Gengar who think they can switch in for free on Hi Jump Kick. Trick allows Medicham to function even better, crippling defensive Pokemon.

    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 232 HP / 240 SAtk / 36 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    Tornadus-T and Genesect really hurt Celebi's usage. However, don't be fooled, as she still functions amazingly in OU. It can still dismantle Scizor + Rotom-W very effectively. Even if Rotom-W users decide to Volt Switch out to Genesect, I go for Thunder Wave very frequently early in the match, and a paralyzed Genesect is a useless Genesect. In addition, it's always incredible having Celebi paralyze Dragonite/Salamence switch-ins who think they can just use her as setup bait. Paralyzing Heatran, who otherwise basically switches in on Celebi for free, can also come in handy, as this makes Heatran much easier to handle. In addition, Celebi doesn't just paralyze things, she also puts the fuckin' hurt on things. If you don't resist Leaf Storm, don't bother switching in on it. If you're one of those Steel-types, HP Fire probably hits you for super effective damage unless your name is Heatran. Recover is a must on this set, as Life Orb + Sandstorm damage would otherwise wear down Celebi easily.

    [​IMG]

    Scizor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower

    I had a hard time picking a final team member. I thought it through for a bit, and decided I wanted a setup sweeper. One who could easily handle opposing Scarf Terrakion, benefit from Celebi's paralysis support (especially a paralyzed Heatran, lol), and just hit like a truck. I put Scizor on this team, and it hasn't been disappointing. Gliscor often comes in thinking it can tank a CB Bullet Punch easily, only seeing that I have Swords Dance. You're probably wondering that even though I have Bullet Punch (a Scizor without Bullet Punch isn't Scizor...), why am I running Jolly? Because you people like to send in Magnezone on this thing. 65 > 60, and Scarfzone isn't really common, so I can smoke it with a Superpower. In addition, Superpower also deals with Heatran switch-ins. Bug Bite is necessary to deal with Reuniclus, who otherwise does pretty well against this set.

    Conclusion

    At first, even I was unsure of how well Medicham would work in OU. However, this team showed me that it really does, and damn, does it work well. Factoring in Pure Power, that shit has the highest Attack stat in the game (bar Deoxys-A). In addition, the sheer adrenaline rush I get when playing with teams that look like they have ridiculous weaknesses gives me a reason to play, so I felt right at home with this team.

    Importable:

    Code:
    Tyranitar @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake
    
    Medicham @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pure Power
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Ice Punch
    - Psycho Cut
    - Trick
    
    Celebi @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 232 HP / 240 SAtk / 36 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover
    
    Scizor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower
  2. PDC

    PDC i zimbra
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    Hello, I cannot do a full on rate at the moment, and I will edit this later, but this looks like a solid team!

    I suggest changing Earthquake to Sacred Sword on Terrakion, as Earthquake gives it no real new coverage. You could also use Rock Slide and Toxic to hit Volcarona and Dragonite more accurately, or cripple physical walls like Hippowdon or Jellicent that can beat Medicham.
  3. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    Hello, nice team you have here!

    I can see that your team lacks of a bulky physically defensive pokemon. The nice 100 base defense on scizor and all his resistances are not very useful because of his 70 base hp and because he was made to attack, not to defend.

    I suggest to use Ferrothorn > Celebi,don't worry about losing your phazer, you can run thunder wave on ferrothorn.

    Here the set:

    [​IMG]

    252 hp / 128 def / 128 sp def | Relaxed nature
    ~ Spikes
    ~ Leech Seed
    ~ Thunder Wave
    ~ Power Whip / Protect


    As you can see, the fire weakness will be covered by heatran, also ferro can take those annoying water type moves. He can switch-in against Rotom-W and the just seed the incoming opponent's pokemon.
    Spikes are going to be useful too. If you want your Ferro to survive more time, go for protect, but remember that if you do this you are not going to be able to hurt your opponent (except with leech seed).

    Hope i helped you and good luck!

    ~LilOu
  4. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Hey LucaroarkZ, this team is both awesome and original!

    First of all, Dugtrio is a pretty big threat, Dugtrio can trap and then proceed to kill half your team. Another problem with Dugtrio is that A very common partner for Dugtrio is Volcarona, with Terrakion gone Offensive Volcarona (With Hidden Power [Ground]) sweeps your team after setting up a QD in front of Scizor or Heatran, to remedy this situation I suggest you run Scarf Landorus over Terrakion. Landorus revenge kills Volcarona, Scarf Salamence, and Lucario just as well as Terrakion does, but is not trapped by Dugtrio, making Landorus a more reliable Scarfer as well as giving your team much more freedom when up against teams with Dugtrio. Landorus also takes more physical advantage from the sand, with its Ability: Sand Force. It's also immune to Spikes which plague your spinerless team and it gives you good momentum with U-Turn, U-Turn can also sometimes save Landorus from becoming set up fodder for sweepers by not locking itself into an unfavourable move, which is a common problem among Scarfers.

    Anyway, I hope this rate helped and GL with the team! Luvdisc'd :)

    Choice Scarf Landorus (open)

    [​IMG]
    Landorus @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-Turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  5. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

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    Hey everyone, thanks for the rates!

    @ LilOu, I'm not sure if Ferrothorn is a good idea. Running that would bring me four Fighting weaknesses, with only the frail Medicham to take Fighting-type hits. In addition, Celebi is my best switch-in to Breloom.

    @ Doom, Scarf Landorus is definitely something to try out - Thanks!
  6. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Wow this team is almost exactly the same as one of mine from around 6 months ago (I might have used this exact line-up at some point). I know the principle of it works and that Medicham is awesome. You should try out Medicham's other on-site set at some point though because it's also awesome.

    I think the most replaceable member of the team is actually Scizor; you should probably consider something that better covers the weaknesses of your team. I could see this team going down to water-move spam really quite easily, for instance. You need to take some of the pressure off celebi because at the moment it's your only counter to a number of potent threats (Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Rotom-W etc.). Not sure what I'd put there at the moment though. Would gastrodon be too defensive?

    Especially if you're not going to give Celebi some backup, I would recommend making celebi's set more defensive; consider giving it a specially defensive spread, Lefties and Giga Drain, and consider putting U-turn on there somewhere to maintain offensive momentum.

    I'd also advise that you make Tyranitar a bit faster; you really need to make sure you outrun all of the Jellicent you run into, Jellicent being a major problem for your team to break through. You might want to consider Zen Headbutt > Psycho Cut too because I believe that gives you a chance of 2HKOing Jellicent after SR.
  7. Bestow5000

    Bestow5000

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    Mar 22, 2011
    Messages:
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    Hiya again, Ryuu. Had fun against this team minutes ago and it didn't end too well against my team...

    Anyway, I do agree with what The Great Mighty Doom says about having a Scarf Landorus. Not only it covers another fighting weakness, it can help revenge kill something. While a Scarf Landorus may be good, if you want something more bulkier that can take hit and still outspeed some stuff with Scarf, then Landorus-T is your big bro. Seems like physical attackers can really ruin your day.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power Ice

    Or you can try a wall breaking MixApe along with your Celebi set as a support and take hits from Scarfers like Earthquake, Stone Edge, Surf or whatever and heal off, attack or paralyze straight to your opponent. It helps. Don't worry too much about priority because you got other things to take it already.

    Other than that, this team functions pretty well. Don't forget to practice more predicting your opponents too if you want to make this game a lot more easier and funner.

    Cheers and good luck! I hope to fight with your team if you make some new and better changes!
  8. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

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    @jc104, I definitely agree that Scizor is the most replaceable member of the team - It was hastily added on, and because of Scizor I go into 90% of my games basically playing a Pokemon down. Besides, Scarf Terrakion seems to be really dropping in popularity anyway. However, I'm not sure what to use over it either, and I haven't had the best of experiences using Gastrodon. Techniloom seems like an obvious replacement, but pretty much every time I use it, I lose. Rotom-W is the first thing that comes to my mind as a potential replacement, and will probably be the first thing I try (it helps that it helps a bit more against Jellicent, but I don't know how that will actually go). I ran the Zen Headbutt calc, and against defensive Jellicent, I need Adamant to even have like a 7% chance to 2HKO. However, it does 2HKO specially defensive Jellicent, which I seem to be running into a bit more frequently, so I'll try Zen Headbutt. I'll look into different EV spreads for T-tar as well; I basically just copied the EV spread straight from Trinitrotoluene's analysis.

    @ Bestow, Scarf Landorus-I I'm testing for sure, but I'm unsure of Scarf Landorus-T since I really need to be able to outspeed Scarf Salamence and +1 Volcarona on this team.
  9. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Didn't notice Medicham was Jolly, sorry. If you bear in mind sandstorm it's more like 60% chance to 2HKO than a 8% chance. It also gives you a spectacular 0.39% chance to 2HKO with Jolly!

    I always recommend Adamant anyway because it's needed for the guaranteed 2HKO on Skarmory and Forretress after SR. It's basically just Jolteon that you're going to outrun with Jolly, possibly Scarf Rotom-W although it could easily be Timid.
  10. Bestow5000

    Bestow5000

    Joined:
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    Outrage? Cool. Landorus-T may likely to take the hit, and you can hit him bak with whatever you please, then switch into Heatran for the kill. Or if you see someone bring in a Mence straight into Landorus-T, then you can switch into Heatran without worrying much if you still have your balloon with you. Most likely they always just mainly love spamming Outrages.
  11. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Feb 2, 2012
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    Hi! Cool team you have there. I lost bad to it the other day...

    Anyway, I agree with the others that Scarf Landorus-I or Landorus-T would probably help on this team. Landorus-I if you want more offensive power and speed or Landorus-T if you want to try to check physical threats. (Intimidate is really annoying for Swords Dance users...)

    Just a weird idea, but perhaps another option would be Choice Scarf Gyarados. While not so helpful against Choice Scarf Salamence, it's typing is good for checking Volcarona and it gives you a fighting resist. Moxie can also help you get a lategame sweep, or if you really wanted you could run Intimidate to check physical attackers better. I don't know, just an idea.
  12. peng

    peng

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    480
    I'm not really seeing the Dugtio + Volcarona Sun team weakness people have pointed out here. Dugtrio is incredibly hard pressed to take down both Tyranitar and Heatran in a single game, let alone Scarf Terrakion on top of that. Celebi can lure in Volcarona to set-up on it and cripple non-Substitute variants with Thunder Wave. I actually disagree with the Landorus-I suggestion, because without Terrakion you are pretty weak to SD / CC / Crunch / ExtremeSpeed Lucario. Similarly, I disagree with the Ferrothorn suggestion because removing Celebi makes you weaker to double priority variants of Lucario.

    As jc104 suggested, I think the main issue here is only having a single Water resist in a metagame thats full of Rain offense. Celebi is going to have a hard time trying to take on rain teams when its the only Pokemon on your team that can reliably switch into Politoed, Starmie etc etc. I think you could drop Scizor for a Specially Defensive Rotom-W who can switch into boosted water attacks and Tornadus-T, which you have already highlighted as a threat.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split / Rest
    - Will-O-Wisp

    The EV Spread isn't really set in stone, its worth experimenting with the SDef and Def to find a combination that works for you, or you may wish to run a slightly faster spread too. This change makes you a bit weaker to Scarf Terrakion, having to rely on Celebi to switch-in repeatedly, so it might be worth testing Leftovers over Life Orb and possibly a more defensive EV spread there.

    Alternatively if you really want to keep Scizor, you could try U-Turn over Bug Bite. This gives you a way of baiting in Jellicent early game to trap with Tyranitar before trying to sweep. Jellicent is a big threat to Medicham and Scizor, so having a way of luring it in and killing it early on in the game makes it much easier to execute a Medicham or Scizor sweep in the late game.

    Cool team, good luck!
  13. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Hi LucaroarkZ, nice to see another Medicham fan in OU!

    The Problem

    Like most Sand teams, you have a weakness to both powerful Fighting and Water attacks. While Celebi does aid with this, it will quickly crumble as your team's only check. The addition of Life Orb+Sandstorm on its strain doesn't help it either. With this in mind, it notes how difficult it can be for your team to play against rain teams. Teams with Focus Sash Dugtrio (note this isn't necessarily all sun teams, but an extension) are a large threat too because of the large amount of things that can be trapped (terrakion, heatran without a balloon, and Ttar). You also have a weakness to stall teams. With 3 Choiced users (two of them being Scarfed), you will find yourself quickly getting worn down by entry hazards with no real stallbreaker. Lastly, Scizor seems to be contributing little to the team. You already have two great revenge killers in Scarf Terrakion and Scarf Medicham, so that slot would be better occupied by a more defensive sweeper.

    The Solution

    To fix these issues, I am going to suggest SD Garchomp SubDD Dragonite over Scizor and Physically Defensive Forretress over Heatran.

    The Sets (open)
    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Dragon Dance
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes / Pain Split
    - Rapid Spin


    Now normally I wouldn't recommend Dragonite on a Sand team without (maybe not) Rapid Spin support but SubDD Dragonite is self-sufficent enough that it isn't necessary. SubDD Dragonite fixes your teams inability to handle multiple Water-type attackers, particularly Keldeo. SubDD Dragonite also gives you a great way to defeat stall teams, which you lacked. Simply save it as your last Poke since they can't phaze and boost up to +6 while they struggle to even touch you. Now this set deviates from the standard a bit by putting those EV's into defense as opposed to special defense. As originally stated in the analysis, it lets your Sub survive Sp. Def Jirachi's Iron Head, a set that has risen to prominence due to Tornadus-T. More importantly, it means that Genesect can not get the +1 Special attack boost to boost up Ice Beam to potentially KO through Multiscale. Lastly, Dragonite helps you deal with Sun teams in case Terrakion and Tyranitar fall to Dugtrio. Overall, your team's Fighting-types and Tyranitar can break down the steels/physical walls to make way for Dragonite. Alternatively you can try Refresh Latias but that contributes to your U-turn weakness.

    Even without a Dragonite, I was still going to recommend a Rapid Spinner. On your original team you had three Choice users, which means you would be switching in and out very often. This is where Forretress comes in, it allows your team to be much fluid with its switching and aid in winning weather wars by preventing SR from being down. Volt Switch is really handy on Forretress, especially on your team. If any threat decides to boost on Forretress, it will be Volt-Switched on and face being in front of one of your two Scarfers. It also can be used to trap Jellicent with CB TTar. Gyro Ball is a good move in case Forretress has to stay in to eliminate a threat and can be used to hit Terrakion/Gengar. Now in the third slot I put two choices: Spikes or Pain Split. You can use Spikes to better wear down teams with your Choiced users and gives something for Forry to do on a free turn. However, the non-standard (but good) Pain Split can be used to help stick around, especially against spinblocking Jellicent's with loads of HP ^^. This is important for preventing your team getting worn down itself over a long match. Essentially you are choosing between wearing down the survivability of the other team vs the survivability of your own. It's really down to your preference.

    Small Changes

    Nothing really much to change but these two things.
    • Stealth Rock>Thunder Wave on Celebi. You may have been wondering if I had forgotten about your SR user and I certainly haven't! I've been trying to figure out what Thunder Wave really benefits on your team and its only CB Tyranitar really. IMO the loss of paralysis support does not affect your team much, if at all. Celebi gives you a nice SR user that as you said "can pull its own weight" and isn't suspected by Magic Bounce users.
    • Rock Slide>Earthquake on Terrakion. Earthquake is mostly filler anyway and Rock Slide really puts a lot more ease on your mind. Think about, do you want to rely on Stone Edge to take down a +1 Volcarona or a weakened +1 Gyarados/Dnite? NO!

    Good luck LucaroarkZ and a great sand team!
  14. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    Terrakion is only adding to your weakness to powerful water/fighting moves. You're basically only using it as a Salamence counter as you have many answers to Volcarona. Volcarona can only switch in on two pokemon anyway on your team, or Celebi if it takes out a pokemon.

    I would definitely replace Terrakion with a Latios. It helps take pressure off Celebi in taking those water/fighting attacks and it maintains offensive pressure which is what your team is made to do. If you have trouble with Genesect, Tornadus, or scarf terrakion this thing should definitely be scarfed. Scarf Latios is a great cleaner in this metagame.

    Also a little change you could make to deal with rain threats better is put leftovers on Celebi instead of Life Orb. Life Orb works with only 2 of your attacks, but when you do attack in the sand you're taking a significant 16%.

    Scizor could also be replaced for the Rotom set Penguin suggested. By replacing Terrakion with Latios, you leave yourself a little bit more vulnerable to Mamoswine. Although Mamoswine can't ohko Latios with Ice Shard unless it is Banded (even after stealth rock), it still takes quite a bit of damage. Rotom-W is one of the best answers to mamoswine in the game.
  15. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

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    I don't like Scarf Latios. Hell, the only Latios sets I like are Calm Mind and Expert Belt. Either way, I want insurance against Volcarona (you'd be VERY surprised at how many setup opportunities Volcarona can get against this team), I need a Volcarona revenge killer, and Latios just doesn't do the trick. In addition, on any team I make, Pursuit weak + Choice item = not happening.

    @ DoughBoy; I understand what you're getting at suggesting those two, but I have literally the worst experience using Forretress. There is one spinner I've managed to make work: Starmie. That's all. I have also tried SR on Celebi before, and I have found it to be ridiculously unreliable at getting them up. Heatran is far better at getting up rocks. This is probably just me, but Dragonite seems like it just doesn't fit on this team. I'll probably end up trying PenguinX's Rotom-W suggestion. I also haven't found a spinner to be necessary; You'd be surprised at how rarely I run into stall and I have no SR weak Pokemon.

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