1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Royal Snake: Serperior in NU

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Hollywood, May 5, 2013.

  1. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,848
    [​IMG]

    Serperior

    75/75/95/75/95/113

    Serperior is a really cool Pokemon, and it has the potential to run a lot of different really good sets. Thanks to its high speed, good mixed defenses, and access to a few different great boosting moves, Serperior is an unpredictable threat in the current metagame.

    And yet, it has really disappointing usage.

    Serperior is an under-appreciated threat in the current Neverused metagame. You have all kinds of different options to your disposal! Some of its more notable moves follow.

    Aromatherapy
    Calm Mind
    Coil
    Dragon Pulse
    Dragon Tail
    Giga Drain
    Glare
    Hidden Power
    Knock Off
    Leaf Blade
    Leech Seed
    Light Screen
    Pursuit
    Reflect
    Swords Dance
    Synthesis
    Taunt

    As you can see, it's got all kind of different options it can play around with! I'm currently using a Calm Mind Taunt set to great effect. What kinds of sets have you guys used?
  2. vyomov

    vyomov

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    857
    To be honest, I'm waiting for Contrary to release before making a new set.
    Before this, I used a Growth/Solarbeam/Dragon Pulse/Sunny Day
  3. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,201
    life orb sub cm is by far my favorite set and i explained a lot about why its so good in some of my other posts
    apparently sub coil with leaf blade and return is also good according to nu champion cbb but i have yet to test that out. cm dragon tail is another interesting set since it can phaze around its normal counters which can be devistating with hazards support and also beat opposing calm minders that try to setup alongside it (mostly musharna)

    all in all a much better grass-type than treecko37
  4. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    I love Dual Screens support because rarely do non Psychic types get both. It has excellent Speed and pretty nice defenses to set the screens up well and consistently. It also has access to Synthesis, allowing it to heal off damage and be a consistent setter, or just put Taunt instead for a more offensive team as to prevent things to set up on it. High speed once again allows it to put pressure down quickly.
  5. LivingRhino

    LivingRhino

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    80
    I have to agree with FLCL. I'm currently using a Serperior set that uses Life Orb together with CM. Treecko37 gave me the idea, and I'm very pleased with how it works out.

    Serperior @ Life Orb
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Taunt

    It's awesome in doing it's job, and I'm pretty happy that I have it now. Before I used the Coil set, which pleased me way less... It's just a very powerful mon, and it can destroy Alomomola, which is why I even love it more! Stupid Alo...
  6. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,255
    I think we can all agree that Serperior is bar none the best non weather-reliant Grass type in NU because of its awesome speed and boosting moves. Serperior has, imo, become like the Raikou of NU: acceptable two move coverage, high speed, good bulk, and spells great trouble if you let it get that boost.
  7. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,848
    I will fight you.

    I agree with this. I was pretty interested in its Dual Screens set myself, though I have yet to use it.

    I also though about running an anti-lead set with Taunt/Glare/Giga Drain/Leech Seed|Knock Off.

    Could be cool! o:
  8. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,061
    I'd add hidden power to its notable moves n_n
    Rhino i hope you didnt take that Serperior from your team import because it looks like youve replaced the physical sets moves with the special ones lol. Evs and nature...

    So yeah ive been using subcm with life orb and its insane. As flcl stated being able to just sub into overgrow rabge to unleash a devastating leaf storm is a really nasty little strategy. Taunt is however as good since you do take less residual damage and can prevent stealth rock early game, and generally avoid opposing setup. Ive not used serperior all that much but i can confirm that its an amazing pokemon in this metagame. It ohkos and outspeeds scolipede after SR n_n

    Has anyone used dragon pulse effectively? And what are your favourite hidden powers to use on serperior?
  9. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,848
    I run HP Rock, and Dragon Pulse was mainly there because of its awesome neutral coverage. The issue with Dragon-type coverage in NU without STAB is obvious; its super-effective coverage is disappointing.

    I usually run HP Rock, mainly because it hits Scolipede and Birds super-effectively. HP Fire does hit Bug and Steel-types, but because Steel-types are pretty uncommon in the tier, I feel that HP Rock is better.
  10. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,255
    Hidden Power Rock is pretty much the go-to for Serperior, hitting Fires, Bugs, Flyings and Jynx all in one. HP Fire is also an option if you've covered for Fire- and Flying-types to hit Grasses, Steels and Jynx (Dry Skin) harder.

    Edit: Dammit Treecko37 :P.
  11. LivingRhino

    LivingRhino

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    80
    Yeah, it's the wrong one, I didn't notice it when typing it, my bad.
  12. Majestic Electric

    Majestic Electric

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    228
    [​IMG]

    Serperior @Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 HP / 74 Def / 182 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Substitute
    -Glare
    -Giga Drain
    -Dragon Tail

    I remember using this set a lot back in the BW1 era. I decided to test it out and it's a pretty good set in the current meta. Unlike the popular SubCM set, this set takes advantage of Serpeior's excellent support options. Sub + Glare is obviously the crux of the set. Once your opponent's mon is paralyzed, your slower sweepers will have a much easier time sweeping. Giga Drain is a must on this set , replenshing Serperior's HP and therefore letting him setup more subs. Giga Drain also works well in conjunction with Leftovers. Dragon Tail prevents Serperior from being setup on and stacks up damage taken from Stealth Rock. I forgot who originally posted the set, but all credit should be given to that person.
  13. NfskMjmMal

    NfskMjmMal

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    187
    The only reason why I don't think this is a very good idea is because there is probably a very small chance that Serperior will remain in NU after Contrary is released. If you're talking about higher tiers though, then great lol.
  14. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,080
    I agree with LivingRhino that Taunt + CM is also a very good set.

    [​IMG]
    Serperior (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Rock]

    This is by far my favorite set to run on this. Serperior has awesome Speed, great bulk, and the perfect offensive typing to make a good anti-lead to a lot of popular Stealth Rock users such as Golem, Regirock, Golurk, Probopass. It can easily Taunt them or threaten with its STAB Giga Drain to prevent set-up early game. Serperior can still function mid to late game thanks to Calm Mind, and Taunt can work there to always win 1v1 Calm Mind wars against opposing Serperiors, Gardevoir, or Musharna. While Serperior can't freely access Overgrow anymore as it can with Substitute, it gains a lot more utility with Taunt and it comes in handy for many situations.

    I also agree that Hidden Power Rock is the best coverage move to have on Serp since it hits everything Serp wants to hit. I've used Hidden Power Fire before, but I think I'll go back to Rock since Serp already beats most of the Grass-type Pokemon in the tier by setting up some Calm Minds on them and even with HP Fire you shouldn't be messing with an SpD Roselia or Vileplume. HP Fire does have the ability to hit Metang, but Metang's Meteor Mash 2HKOes so Serp doesn't really want to stay in on it either. Serperior is really good in this metagame and was honestly hella good last one as well, but was overlooked a lot.
  15. sickweare

    sickweare

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Could it be the coveted Contrary Serperior being released? This would certainly become huge for Serperior's viability if so. Would it completely overtake the CM seta posted here previously though?

    I love Serperior in and out of competitive play, but I think this would be quite an awesome jump for Serperior if it turns out to be Contrary Serperior. According to Serebii's event database it is unconfirmed what ability it will have.
  16. mertyville

    mertyville

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    487
    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w...kémon_distributions_in_Generation_V#Serperior
    It seems thats not the case.

    I am starting to think, that some DW-Abilities aren't going to be released in Gen 5 but Gen 6.
  17. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    684
    I like this thread...hopefully Contrary Serperior comes soon..I've been waiting a long time for it! Anyway, I'm going to post a set I've been using to some success, but not a whole lot:

    Serperior (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Coil
    -Leaf Blade
    -Aqua Tail
    -Iron Tail/Aerial Ace

    Yes, with Coil, Iron Tail is actually viable! Besides Dragon Tail, these are Serperior's only real coverage options (I was surprised and upset that Serperior did not get Rock Slide), all strengthened by Coil. Iron Tail can also cut the defense of the target after it hits, which is a welcome bonus since Serperior's attacks aren't too powerful even after a boost.
  18. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,848
    The only issue I really have with Iron Tail on Serperior is that it doesn't really add anything to it coverage-wise. Aerial Ace can be pretty cool, but even if it is hitting something for super effective damage, it is outdamaged by a neutral STAB Leaf Blade. The only thing I can think that would hate to take an Aerial Ace over anything else is Leavanny which is not exactly a top-tier threat in NU. Honestly, Leaf Blade and Aqua Tail have pretty good coverage, so I would probably use either Substitute or Taunt in that last slot. But if you are truly concerned about coverage, Return provides the best coverage alongside Leaf Blade and Aqua Tail.

    Overall, I just feel like Coil is kind of mediocre. Tangela can stomach anything on its set and hit back with HP Ice/Fire. Misdreavus can Taunt it and take a couple of hits. Hell, if it's Taunted, it can even be burned. Mainly, I just feel like a physical set should probably be running Swords Dance over Coil.
  19. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    123
    I have been using the subseeding set to great effect on Serperior. Giga Drain hits those common rockers in the tier, bar the Probopass because it resists Giga Drain. Leech Seed is to get that HP back on lots of pokemon in the tier, minus those Sap Sipper pokemon like Miltank and or Zebstrika. You pretty much force a switch when you use Leech Seed, because they are forced to switch out into something else to preserve it. Also, Substitute allows you to avoid that status, because Status, especially poison or paralysis are the things that shut serperior down. Lastly, you have HP Rock to hit Bugs, Fires,Steels,Flyings and Ice types alright,dealing at least a small chunk to them. Or you can run HP Fire to surprise those pokemon that think they can switch into Serperior, like Dry Skin Jynx. Serperior also has the speed to be an efficient subseeder in the tier, outspeeding even Carracosta after a +2. It is a great check to Carracosta because of that high speed and precede to KO Carracosta, even with the defensive variant.

    Biggest problem for this set is actually pokemon that have status, like Alomomola, Lickylicky or basically any pokemon with a super effective move against Serperior. Jynx can survive an HP Fire and go for the Ice Beam,either Koing Serperior or causing a switch which can reduce Serperior's effectiveness if there are hazards up. Toxic Spikes are a huge problem for Serperior, because they inflict a status automatically on switch in and then Serperior has a problem doing its job.
  20. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    539
    Taunt can be used to mitigate status onto serperior, which that and giga drain are the 2 moves I use on all my serperior sets. I also like using life orbed leaf storm, as it will hit so much harder than giga drain or even a super effective hp.
  21. Enoch

    Enoch

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    99
    p
    When Contrary Serperior is released, it won't be NU anymore... Unless you meant that you would like to try it out in the Upper Tiers.

    On the subjec of Contrary Serperior, when it's released it will more than likely become UU or maybe even OU with that awesome Base 113 Speed. However, don't let the automatic +2 Boost of SPAtk coming off of a powerful STAB fool you... Keep in mind the Ability Sap Sipper, which could actually rise in Usage in the Upper Tiers because of it. A Contrary Serperior lacking a way to deal with fast, Scarfed U-turn Users or Speed Boosters (Yanmega) stop it in its tracks. Thus, Substitute becomes essential on every Set. Here's a successful Set I've used in the old Smogon Monotype Tier:

    Serperior @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Substitute

    Pretty straightforward, needs no additional information I haven't mentioned already.

    EDIT: Huge Thanks to Punchshroom for catching the Salac Berry's uneffectiveness, as beeen replaced with Life Orb.


    But this isn't a Contrary Serperior Thread, so let's discuss another Set possible with it's Overgrow Ability. Bit there's so many... Several of you have mentioned many of them, such as the Dual Screen, ParaShuffler, Calm Mind, and Taunt Sets, which are all viable. Another one can include a Set similar to the Contrary one I shared above:a simple SubBoosting Set involving Calm Mind > Leaf Storm.

    Serperior @ Leftovers / Salac Berry
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 200 HP / 48 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd | 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) | Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute

    As said before, this Set (or these Sets) may look familiar. Sharing the Contrary Set's problem with Speedy U-turn Users and an additional one in fast Flying Types such as Swellow, Substitute re-emerges as an essential part of these Sets.as well (in my opinion). The rest is up to you: do you want a Bulky Sweeper, or a pure one? If you opt to go with the first option, which is the superior one to me (NO PUN INTENDED), then use the 252 HP / 48 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd Spread @ Leftovers. If you want something of a Late Game Sweeper or Wallbreaker, go with with the 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd @ Salac Berry. Nothing is stopping you from using the Leftovers on both though.
  22. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,255
    For your Contrary set, you do realize Salac Berry is counterproductive right? :/
  23. Enoch

    Enoch

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    99
    No I didn't, otherwise I wouldn't suggest it at all. Any alternative suggestions then? I'm open for constructive criticism.
  24. NfskMjmMal

    NfskMjmMal

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    187
    For a Contrary set, I'm not even sure that you'd really need Giga Drain because Serperior is fast and powerful enough such that it needs coverage more than recovery. So, I think

    Serperior @ Leftovers
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Substitute

    would be a good set. Unfortunately, Dragon Pulse is one of Serperior's only coverage moves, but at least you can hit everything for at least neutral. Also, most of the things that can even survive a +6 Leaf Storm are (quad) weak to Fire. Especially given Dragon Pulse, I think Fire would be better in this case.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)