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Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. TROP

    TROP *tips fedora*
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    Except for the part where you did.

    Rock Slide is only hitting Rotom and nothing else. A neutral rock climb hits pretty much everything relevant almost s hard(hazards make the difference not a big deal at all). And except for Regirock and Rhydon, Tauros can beat all physically bulky mons pretty easily with the correct viable move. And forgot one thing, Tauros hits harder than queen with its strongest move. Power is not everything as Rampardos, Medicham, and Kyurem-B have been proving for quite some time now.
    So 100 base attack with high powered moves, and life orb is is lacking in power? Okay, good to know. Tauros gets this move called Double-Edge, so it is not missing power, it is actually the opposite, he gains a stronger move with perfect accuracy to hit stuff really hard. Sure the recoil sucks, but the power is worth it.
    It misses no coverage moves because Substitute(work up is awful and should never by used at all by any mon in the game) is superior to rock slide in every single way, and as said previously, it only hits rotom.
    4 SpA Life Orb Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 192-229 (47.52 - 56.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. You sure about that?
    They are not even similar at all, except for the fact that both are 4 legged normal-typed mons with similar attack stat,
    Irrelevant when almost everything will hit it first
    Except for whimsicott, all other grass move users have either insane bulk to take on bouff or can easily take it out with other moves easily. Not to mention it is obvious as hell it will have sap sipper.
    Only legitimate point here.
  2. col49

    col49 what.
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    Ok, I guess I'm gonna try to do this, so bear with me here ^_^

    High:
    • [​IMG] - Cryogonal is basically uncontested as the best overall defensive Rapid Spin user in the tier, being capable of playing around every Ghost-type in the tier, while having great self-sustainability thanks to Recover. These attributes make him a common staple for defensively oriented teams, and rightfully deserves High A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - Gallade in one of the most dangerous and flexible sweepers in the tier, capable of running multiple sets to good effect. It's unique stat arrangement and expansive movepool making it capable of setting up on and accordingly taking on a variety of threats, making it one of the biggest threats to Hail and Bulky Offense teams in the tier (so much so that many Hail teams pack Spiritomb largely for it) and deserving up High A rank.
    • [​IMG] - Kabutops is like Cryogonal, being generally accepted as the best overall offensive Rapid Spin user in the tier. If you're running Moltres, Kabutops is almost always in tow, no if's, and's, or but's about it. With Swords Dance it even has the capability to sweep late-game, with a +2 Stone Edge breaking through common pivots such as Slowking and Amoongus. Generally speaking, I don't think much deserves High A Rank more than Kabutops.
    • [​IMG] - Rotom-C is an incredibly flexible Pokemon, being one of the best scouts (and arguably the best Choice Scarf user) in the tier, sporting solid stats across the board, STAB Volt Switch for maintaining momentum, and a secondary Grass typing for threatening Ground-types that otherwise might be able to ruin its momentum. Rotom-C is almost never dead weight in any given game due to these attributes, making it deserving of High A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - As described previously, every single team should have a game plan for Smeargle unless you want a sleeping 'mons and 2+ layers of hazards on your side of the field. Smeargle is one of the most efficient hazard layers for offense teams, so much so that it has practically developed its own play style in RU, and deserves no less than High A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - Tangrowth is one of the closest things there is to a 1 'mon army there is in RU, taking on a variety of threats one it's own while retaining self-sustainibility thanks to Regenerator. What's more, it's high Attack and Special Attack stats, complimented by some nice High BP moves such as Leaf Storm, Power Whip, Focus Blast, and more, make it less vulnerable to opposing set-up, making it one of the best pivot 'mons in the tier, and a rightful High A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - I could probably c/p one of Molk's Zangoose rants here as justification, but the short of it is that Zangoose is one of the most powerful Pokemon in RU after a free turn, sporting a huge Attack stat boosted by Toxic Boost and a high-powered Facade as well as solid coverage from Close Combat and Night Slash and even Quick Attack for a moderately powerful priority attack. High A Rank seems only appropriate.

    Mid:
    • [​IMG] - Absol has recently seen an increase in popularity in "mainstream RU", but it has always been an excellent Pokemon, sporting a scarily strong Sucker Punch for checking a variety of set-up sweepers, good coverage, and even some nice utilities such as Pursuit and Fire Blast to allow it to tailor itself to individual team's needs. Though it's difficulty in switching in does give it some problems, Absol is a comfortable pick for Mid A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - Go die, all my teams are weak to you :< Durant is one of the most potent Pokemon in the tier, retaining hugely powerful attacks courtesy of Hustle, as well as the means to remedy the corresponding accuracy issues with Hone Claws. Durant's respectable physical bulk not only gives it some solid opportunities to set up, but also makes it quite resilient to priority, making it even more difficult to check once it gets going. Though it has some trouble finding the free turns it desires, Durant fits comfortably in Mid A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - Lilligant is one of the most dangerous set-up sweepers in tier, carrying the potent Quiver Dance, and finds some choice opportunities to set up thanks to Sleep Powder. STAB Giga Drain also helps it eat some weaker priority attacks and recovering its HP back. Though reliance on Hidden Power for coverage does hurt it somewhat, Lilligant's potency makes it very deserving of Mid A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - Poliwrath is an excellent defensive Pokemon, capable of checking a vast plethora of common and dangerous threats almost single-handedly (though Wish and Heal Bell support doesn't hurt '~'). Having both an effective phazing move in Circle Throw and Scald it is capable of punishing all manner of set-up, reinforcing its ability to take on such Pokemon. Having to rely on RestTalk is a bit iffy, but it definitely remains a comfortable Mid A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - Qwiflish is similar to Poliwrath in that it is capable of checking a variety of threats rather well, trading the ability to better take on boosting sweepers for access to Spikes, Thunder Wave, and Taunt (among other things). Though it lacks the natural bulk of Poliwrath, Qwilfish's versatility helps distinguish itself, and makes it a solid Mid A Rank Pokemon.
    • [​IMG] - Rotom is a very unique Pokemon in most aspects. Electric / Ghost typing is very cool, allowing it to break through a variety of Pokemon, as well as allowing it to take on Kabutops to an extent (it can be EV'ed to take a +2 Aqua Jet) and serve as the only Ghost-type with access to a scouting move in Volt Switch. Though it's movepool is moderately condensed it remains effective nonetheless, allowing it run anything from SubSplit to Choice Scarf to good effect. Though it's somewhat middling Base stats to hold it back to an extent, Rotom remains a solid Mid A Rank Pokemon.
    • [​IMG] - Sigilyph is another interesting Pokemon, sporting a very unique Speed stat that allows it to outpace quite a few common Pokemon. What's more, access to Magic Guard and its decent bulk make it moderately tough to wear down, with the former making it immune to various forms of passive damage as well as Life Orb recoil, making it a very capable offensive Pokemon thanks to solid coverage options, good STAB, and access to Roost. Oh, and it can use Cosmic Power or something apparently, idk. Either way, Sigilyph is powerful enough to deserve Mid A Rank.
    • [​IMG] - Spiritomb is debatably the premier Ghost-type of the tier, and it isn't hard to see why. It's nice bulk and typing make a very resilient Pokemon, and it's variety of utility options make it a very capable of priority / Pursuit user and Calm Mind cleaner. Spiritomb's excellent combination of useful traits make it a very capable Mid A Rank Pokemon.
    • [​IMG] - Tauros is one of those Pokemon that has few to no full-on "counters", being capable of breaking through common defensive pivot such as Tangrowth with a Sheer Force-boosted Fire Blast and smashing everything in between its powerful STAB attacks, Earthquake, and Rock Slide. It can even use Intimidate to good effect, forcing out opponents on utilizing Substitute to play around Ghost-types. Due to these attributes, Tauros fits very well into Mid A Rank.

    Low:
    • [​IMG] - Emboar's a very effectual Pokemon in RU, sporting excellent coverage and high-power attacks being fired off its base 123 Attack. Moreover, its Fighting sub-typing make it less susceptible to entry hazards than other Fire-types, while also making it a solid switch-in to dangerous Pokemon such as Sceptile. However, its hindering Speed stat does give it significant problems (even the Choice Scarf set is getting outpaced by Swellow '~'), and with common Pokemon such as Slowking checking it aptly Emboar is likely best suited for Low A Rank atm.
    • [​IMG] - Cincinno's high-powered and consistent multi-hit moves are its claim to fame, being capable of hitting hard and even allowing it to effectively play around Focus Sash and Substitute, with its moderately high Attack and solid Speed stat allowing it to abuse it to the fullest. However, its inability to play around Steel-types (I don't say Ghost-types because it is a very capable Substitute user) and frailty due hinder it somewhat, making it ideal in Low A Rank
    • [​IMG] - Jynx has a variety of interesting attributes going for it, including a decent Speed and Special Attack stat, solid STAB coverage, and the useful Lovely Kiss. Dry Skin is the icing on the cake, allowing it to stop Pokemon such as Kabutops dead in their tracks and allowing it to play around and set up on a handful of bulky Water-types. Unfortunately, common Pokemon such as Entei and Escavalier are highly problematic for it, and with Sleep Talk becoming a more and more common move on such Choice users Jynx's effectiveness has somewhat decreased, making Low A Rank the most appropriate.
    • [​IMG] - Rotom-F, like its Grass-type cousin, is a solid Pokemon overall, sporting decent bulk and Special Attack, solid Speed and awesome STAB coverage, hitting almost all the tier hard. However, Rotom-F does mandate Hail to function, which in itself is essentially forcing the entire team to fill a certain mold, making it best suited in Low A Rank.

    edit: High=Top btw, whoops '~'
  3. Slory

    Slory

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    I agree with Col's ranking besides two pokemon: Zangoose and Tangrowth. Although Zangoose is one of the most deadliest RU Pokemon with the fact of Toxic Boost, incredible coverage and the ability of even raise more its Attack with Swords Dance, its has flaws that dont make that great. Zangoose defenses are pretty bad, really it take a lot of damage from even neutral moves, for example uninvested Uxie does around 40% with Psychic or Slowking does around 50% with Scald, and makes it a lot vulnarable to piority users. Unite this with the damage from hazads and toxic recoil, and Zangoose will die very quickly, really, Zangoose needs partner with Volt Switch / U-turn, because its too risky switch in with it. I think that Low its better for it, or maybe mid.

    Tangrowth is one of the best physical wall in the tier, and can even use it fantistic offensive stats with good moves like Leaf Storm, Focus Blast etc. But I dont think in the metagame isnt that great. The fact that in BW2 appear a lot of physical sweepers that can break tangrowth with ease like Ecavalier, Durant, Absol, Tauros, Fraxure, Druddigon etc. Also tangrowth struggles with hail team and against those it become to be a practically ead weight. Add that the natural offense of the metagame dont leave to much opportunitties for tangrowth, for this i thik thats its best mid for it
  4. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Because I don't want to be redundant and im on my ipod I agree with Col49's rankings with the exception of a few mons.

    Durant deserves to be Top tier mainly because its immediate power is astounding. It has a really nice speed stat and quite a number resistances, meaning setting up isn't really all difficult since it scares off so much. Sometimes it doesn't even need the free turn - an unboosted hit hurts extremely badly due to Hustle and the Possible Life Orb boost... which is already quite potent if you can accept the fact it may miss.

    Zangoose needs to be Mid-Tier or Low-Tier. While it is extremely powerful, it is also extremely frail and hard to switch in. Having legitimately no resistances doesn't help this fact at all. It is also a bit easy to revenge kill since Quick Attack and 90 base speed is meh. It comes with a huge reward no doubt, but having that free turn to set up is difficult to find (by that I mean letting the orb activate) Having almost no counters doesn't mean it doesn't avoid getting Koed by so much, though it does mean it is hard to stop. Seems like a mid or low tier to me.

    Taurus for some reason has always failed to impress me whenever I use it or lay against it either due to it not taking hits as well as I thought it would (doesn't have that great of a bulk on the special side and has no resistances so I can't switch it in) or it doesn't do enough damage (does enough to 2HKO me but then I OHKO it). I really have nothing to argue against it being in low rather than mid due to stories of success, but it has not been as much of a threat to me as everything else in mid to me, even when I don't even bother thinking about it as a threat. I guess my best reasoning is "just not good enough."

    Edit: Looking at the post below I wouldn't mind Rotom being B-Tier, it feels more like a niche than an actual threat when I use it (though pretty nice for a niche), and its a meh spinblocker. I agree with the Accelgor bit too
  5. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    In no particular order:

    Top:

    [​IMG] In my opinion Poliwrath is the best physical wall in RU. The number of top threats that it puts a stop to includes Entei, Escavalier, Kabutops, Spiritomb, Cryogonal, Emboar, Durant, and Absol (it's a good check to the latter two). It's a great team supporter but unfortunately it can't do anything to the Psychic-types in the tier. Nevertheless it should still be top A Rank.

    [​IMG] Durant doesn't have many good switch-ins at all, and it can very easily severely damage an opposing team or just sweep through it late-game. Since it's one of the biggest threats in the tier, I think it should go to top A Rank.

    [​IMG] Gallade is similar to Durant in that it doesn't have many switch-ins and is one of the best and most powerful sweepers in the tier. It becomes very hard to stop Gallade late-game so I think that it's one of the most threatening setup sweepers in RU.

    [​IMG] Spiritomb is extremely useful in RU, being one of the few mons to beat Gallade while also Pursuit trapping the many Psychic-types found everywhere such as Uxie, Slowking, and Sigilyph. It is also one of the only effective Ghost-types that beats Cryogonal, has a strong Sucker Punch, and can spread Will-O-Wisp. I think that Spiritomb is a very important Pokemon and thus deserves top A Rank.

    [​IMG] Smeargle is the best hazard setting in the tier. The only thing keeping it from being S Rank is that teams are so prepared for it whether it be running a fast Taunt user, a Sleep Talk user, Lum Berry, or something like Vital Spirit. Every team should make sure that they can beat Smeargle, or they will be in for a rough battle. I could probably even see it at low S Rank, but I'm not going to nom it for now.

    [​IMG] Rotom-C is an amazing Pokemon, being a great revenge killer or pivot. Its Volt Switch is so frustrating, hitting decently hard and giving its team momentum. Rotom-C can also run support moves such as Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave, and check a large number of threats. It also has great typing allowing it to fit onto teams with ease.

    [​IMG] I was on the edge about Kabutops, but that's probably because I run Poliwrath so much... but a big reason for that is Kabutops. Kabutops is no doubt the best spinner in the tier, and also even more threatening if it gets a Swords Dance off. It is perfect for offensive teams that need Rapid Spin and can function well in a FWG core.

    Mid:

    [​IMG] Lilligant is something that is extremely hard to prepare for, as it can remove its checks from the game with Sleep Powder. I was going to consider it for top A, but when you think about it, a lot of Pokemon such as Escavalier, Entei, and Emboar run Sleep Talk, and Lilligant can get screwed over depending on its Hidden Power choice. Lum Berry is also quite common, so something like Lum Berry Durant or Gallade can check it. Uxie with Thunder Wave checks Lilligant, as well as the extremely common Druddigon. Basically I don't think that Lilligant is as effective as it once was, but is still a scary threat, so mid A Rank should be fine :3.

    [​IMG] Emboar is so important because it is one of the only offensive checks to Escavalier, Lilligant, and Durant, and it also resists Sucker Punches and Grass-type moves. It is also a Fire-type that isn't weak to SR, which is extremely useful imo. Emboar is a great revenge killer with a Choice Scarf, and also quite powerful. The things keeping it from top A rank are its Speed and the recoil it takes from Flare Blitz etc.

    [​IMG] Cryogonal is pretty much the only other viable spinner in the tier. It also comes with the bonus of checking Nidoqueen, which is very important. Lots of teams naturally beat Cryogonal without even trying though, and its Stealth Rock weakness and not being able to run 252 SpDef (unless you want to get wrecked by Pursuit users) puts a lot of pressure on it. Cryogonal is more valuable on defensive teams, which is where it shines. I wouldn't be opposed to putting it at Low A Rank though.

    [​IMG] Sigilyph is another one of the most threatening special sweepers in the tier. If the opponent is not running Spiritomb or Absol, it will most likely get a KO. It is very hard to deal with, though not unstoppable as Pokemon such as Kabutops or Druddigon can take a hit and KO. I would even consider it for top A Rank, but I'm on the fence atm.

    Low:

    [​IMG] Tauros just doesn't cut it for me. It's not so threatening that I feel like I'm at a disadvantage if I don't put a dedicated check on my team. It's still a good mon, just not as threatening as the other A Rank Pokemon.

    [​IMG] So many people run Spiritomb and priority users such as Entei and Kabutops, which really hurts Zangoose's effectiveness. What's more, Zangoose has trouble getting a chance to set up, and even if it does, it has to rely on a weak Quick Attack to hit faster Pokemon like Durant and Scarf Rotom-C. It doesn't stay around for long either due to the damage from Toxic Orb and other random damage from hazards or Kabutops's Aqua Jet. The only thing keeping it in A Rank imo is that it can severely damage an opposing team and clean up unprepared teams late-game.

    [​IMG] Accelgor is extremely threatening late-game, where it can sweep teams once their Scarf or priority user has fainted. The biggest downside to Accelgor is that it's really frail, but otherwise I feel that it's a great sweeper in RU.

    [​IMG] Jynx is in the same boat as Lilligant, in that many teams are prepared for it with Sleep Talk users and other things. It also has four-moveslot syndrome, having to forego one of Substitute or Nasty Plot if it wants to beat Escavalier, Entei, or Cryogonal. It simply gets checked by too many things and can't beat them. Jynx is also extremely frail on the physical side, and Pokemon such as Spiritomb or even Gallade's Shadow Sneak can do a number on her.

    --

    Nominating Rotom-N for B Rank. It is insanely frail and lack reliable recovery, meaning that it can't even take hits from Kabutops and Escavalier and gets worn down incredibly easily. The bulky set is also pretty weak offensively and still doesn't do well vs the powerful attackers in such an offensive metagame. I simply do not think that Rotom is very effective.

    Undecided on Rotom-F, because I feel like it's easy to deal with and the Scarf set is outclassed by Glaceon. The SubSplit set seems threatening but I haven't seen it used effectively enough.

    I'm either undecided on the rest or don't feel like posting, but I could definitely make a post later about Qwilfish, Cinccino, Rotom-F, Absol, and Tangrowth.
  6. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    I dont have a full opinion on the top/mid/low for A rank yet, but i'll comment on the some of the proposals.


    Definitely going to support Accelgor moving to low A rank with the new rating system, Accelgor is a pretty good Pokemon in RU overall, being one of the fast Spikes setters in the tier as well as a great late game cleaner and revenge killer (it has the same speed stat as scarf medicham with a positive nature :o). The only thing that was really holding me back from putting Accelgor in A rank before was how vulnerable to residual damage and priority he was, he's weak to Stealth Rock and takes damage from all hazards, which combined with Life Orb recoil reduces his already low longetivitity, priority such as Entei's Extremespeed and Absol's Sucker Punch pose a huge problem as well, especially when paired with the previously suggested hazards. I was a bit reluctant to put Accelgor in A rank because of this, but with the new top/mid/low system along with the discovery of Hidden Power Water to get past Nidoqueen, i think promoting Accelgor to low A rank is reasonable, thoughts?

    Although Zangoose is one of my favorite Pokemon to use in the current metagame, im going to have to agree with the sentiments of users such as Slory, Swamp-Rocket and Dittocrow. Its probably more appropriate to place Zangoose in mid or possibly low A rank, while Zangoose hits like an absolute truck, has a decent Speed tier, and only one true counter (Spiritomb). Its fraility and lack of longetivity really get to it. Zangoose has trouble switching in because of its lack of resistances and low 73/60/60 defenses, which makes it harder to activate toxic boost without coming in after a KO or using U-turn/Volt Switch/double switching to get it in. Toxic Boost is a double edged sword as well, while it boosts Zangoose's attack to ridiculous levels, the poison damage required to activate it further lowers Zangoose's longetivity, giving it just about 6 turns max to do as much damage as possible. Of course, given Zangoose's level of raw power 3 turns can easily translate into 3 KO's if Zangoose is played well, so it isnt as crippling as it seems. But nonthenless, i think Zangoose is better suited to mid/low A rank, and putting it in top A rank just doesnt seem right to me...

    EDIT: btw after some thought, i moved sandslash to low C rank :o
  7. Avira

    Avira

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    [​IMG] Durant is extremely powerful, only being hindered by its frailty on the special end of the spectrum and (at times) the accuracy of its moves. It more than makes up for these things with its soaring Attack (Thanks to Hustle) and excellent Speed, making it an immediate threat with very few switch-ins. It can do a significant amount of damage to an opponent's team or sweep through it near the end of the match.

    [​IMG] Gallade has a very high Attack stat and has access to useful boosting moves, but he's hindered by its average Speed for an offensive threat and his low Defense, making him vulnerable to being revenge killed. He also has moveset problems, as the absence of one move results in him being unable to break several Pokemon that are relevant in RU. Although this moveset problem does trouble him, the only thing that can reliaby switch in to Gallade is Spiritomb, and the opponent will need to play carefully when he gets in for free. I was going to suggest Mid Tier for him, but the more I read what I had typed, the more I realized that Gallade should be Top Tier. I had someone nudge me in the right direction.

    [​IMG] Kabutops is the best spinner in the RU tier, with it having the raw power to beat every spinblocker with ease. It can function as a solid revenge killer with Aqua Jet, and with a boost, its Stone Edge can destroy even the bulkiest of support Pokemon, although there are some that can switch into Kabutops with impunity. It's also hindered by its Speed and frailty, but it usually should get the chance to switch in and pull its weight.

    [​IMG] Rotom-C is an effective revenge killer and pivot that can keep up the momentum with Volt Switch. Being able to deter Lanturn because of Leaf Storm distinguishes it from other forms of Rotom. It can absorb Trick as well as crippling an opponent's Pokemon with it when it has been decided that Rotom no longer needs its Choice Scarf (Or Specs, but the former is more common since Speed is more important in a primarily offensive metagame). Being immune to all hazards except for Stealth Rock really gives it a lot of utility.

    [​IMG] Spiritomb is the best spinblocker in the tier because its Dark-typing removes the Pursuit-weakness commonly associated with the role, which also allows for it to take on other Dark-types more effectively. It is useful for pressuring many of the Psychic-types in the tier with Sucker Punch and Pursuit, and is hands down the best switch-in to Gallade. It's a very vital Pokemon in the RU tier.


    Mid


    [​IMG]Absol has a great Attack stat and strong priority in Sucker Punch, but its low Speed in comparison to other offensive threats in the tier can occasionally make it unreliable since Sucker Punch is exploitable. It is definitely a huge threat that is hard to switch into, but it also has trouble coming in due to its low defenses and small amount of resistances.

    [​IMG] Emboar is useful in the RU tier not only because its high Attack stat and its access to high Base Power moves, but also because it serves as an offensive check to the very powerful Escavalier, one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier, as well as Durant and Lilligant. Its main shortcomings are its low Speed and reliance of recoil moves, but it is still worthy of being Mid Tier A Rank.

    [​IMG] Lilligant sits at a respectable speed tier and has access to Quiver Dance and Sleep Powder, giving her utility in putting something to sleep (Sleep is at its strongest in Gen V) and setting up for a sweep late in the game. What goes against her is that many threats are prepared for sleep moves, and she has moveset problems (Has to choose between HP Fire/Rock) that prevent her from doing major damage until her checks have been dealt with.

    [​IMG] Poliwrath is a great check to many of the tier's offensive Pokemon like Entei, Kabutops, Crawdaunt, and others, but it is also weak to other common attacking types like Grass/Electric/Psychic, all of which are relatively common in the tier. It is a viable user of RestTalk with the chance of choosing a move with a burn chance in Scald and a move that can force an unfavorable switch for the opponent, but it would be better if Gen V had not changed Sleep mechanics in a way that significantly affects those who are affected by this status.

    [​IMG] Qwilfish is a strong check to offensive Fire and Bug-types because of its typing and Intimidate, and is also a viable spiker. It can be tailored for several uses like paralyzing common switch-ins to it with Thunder Wave, crippling slower Pokemon with Taunt, and using Haze to stop set-up sweepers. It has awful Special Defense and moveset problems, but should provide support for teams that desire Spikes.

    [​IMG] Sigilyph possesses of the best abilities in the game, and that is Magic Guard. It doesn't take residual damage and suffers no recoil from Life Orb. Don't even talk about Cosmic Power because that set is complete trash and you should be shot for trying to suggest that it is good. It has weaknesses to some common attacking types, but poses an immediate threat with its respectable Special Attack and coverage moves, making it a solidly A Rank Pokemon.

    [​IMG] Smeargle is capable of doing many roles (Hazards setter, TR lead, and Baton Passer) and has access to Spore, but I believe there are a few things separating it from the very best A Rank Pokemon. It is very frail and sits with rather middling speed, allowing for the opponent to punch it hard and limit its overall utility while potentially retaining momentum.

    [​IMG] Tauros has excellent Speed and is quite a potent attacker with Sheer Force, one of the best abilities in the game for an offensive Pokemon. He also has good coverage, and is hard to wear down because of the lack of Life Orb recoil except when forced to use Earthquake. Giving him hazards support is an effective way of dealing with Spiritomb so that he can defeat it without being forced out and taking in entry hazards damage the next time he comes in.

    [​IMG] Zangoose sits at a respectable speed tier and Toxic Boost makes it extremely powerful, but it does have its downfalls with its poor defenses, making it vulnerable to being revenge killed by faster Pokemon and priority. It does have great coverage and high Base Power moves, making it a good choice for coming in after a kill, as there are very few safe switch-ins and it can activate the Toxic Orb in this way. It is very effective late-game because of its raw power.


    Low


    [​IMG] Accelgor is the fastest spiker in the tier with a blazing Speed stat that puts it above pretty much anything that hasn't boosted its Speed with a Choice Scarf or through some other means. This allows it to get Spikes out quickly and be threatening late-game when the opposing team has been weakened because of its good coverage moves. Its frailty prevents it from being any more than Low Tier A Rank.

    [​IMG] Cinccino has excellent Speed and numerous multi-hit moves that can help users play around Focus Sash and Substitute, making it very useful for offensive teams. Despite being very powerful, it has major trouble with breaking Steel-types and Pokemon that have very high physical bulk like Tangrowth because of its coverage issues.


    [​IMG] Cryogonal is the only viable spinner other than Kabutops in RU, and this gives it a certain niche. It's cursed with the worst defensive typing in the game, resulting in it being weak to some of the very best attacking types in the game, and being hindered by Stealth Rock. Another one of its shortcomings is the very poor Defense stat, which requires for it to invest heavily in defense to prevent it from extremely vulnerable to Pursuit users. What it does have going for it is Levitate, Recover, and its nice Speed, allowing for it to evade Spikes, recover from damage, and outspeed Nidoqueen with a bit of investment to check it.

    [​IMG]Although Ice is a good attacking type, it's also the worst defensive typing in the game, allowing for something with monstrous BST to drop down to OU. Jynx is blighted by her terrible Defense stat much like Cryogonal is, resulting in even weak priority doing considerable damage to her. She is also hit by all entry hazards and has moveset problems, resulting in many Pokemon being able to check her. Access to Lovely Kiss is useful considering how BW's sleep mechanics work and is effectively a free kill if the opponent doesn't use Sleep Talk or have a way to get rid of Sleep.

    [​IMG] Rotom-N sits at a nice speed tier that allows it to outspeed Omastar after one Shell Smash and Lilligant after one Quiver Dance. But is is very frail and can't check Escavalier even though it resists both of its STAB attacks, and is thoroughly destroyed by Pursuit. Like the other forms of Rotom, it is blessed by not having to take damage from Spikes. I wouldn't be opposed to having this be B Rank.

    [​IMG] Tangrowth has very high physical bulk, but its typing also comes with many weaknesses, which limits its usefulness. Having Regenerator is definitely a welcome change that helps cushion attacks, but there are too many top threats that deter Tangrowth from switching in or just force it out.


    B Rank suggestions:


    [​IMG] Rotom-F is much worse than Rotom-C because of its much worse typing giving it many weaknesses to common attacking types, and because it needs Hail to maximize Blizzard's usefulness. Although it is quite powerful with high Base Power moves, there are Pokemon that act as full stops to it. Because of this, I believe the amount of support necessary for Rotom-F means that it should be a B Rank instead of A Rank.
  8. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    I'm not going to implement the top/mid/low for A rank just yet, but i think everyones on the same page on Accelgor, so i took initiative and moved it up to A rank for the time being, when i implement top/mid/low, hes going to end up in low A rank, for reference.

    and i still havent finished my post for my opinion on top/mid/low smh ;-;.
  9. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Don't overemphatize ice as the "worst" defensive type, because rock is.
  10. DrRobotnik

    DrRobotnik

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    I'd still say that it's Ice, Ice is 1-4 whereas Rock is 4-5 (same as Grass), so even though it is weak to one more type it can switch in safely more often. Rock is definitely at least second, though.
  11. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    I'd also say ice is still a worse defensive type than rock, while Rock has more weaknesses then Ice, Ice also has a grand total of one resistance to fall back on (although ice resistance is kinda cool). All 4 of Ice's weaknesses are very common/important in the metagame, there are tons of Flare Blitzes, Fire Blasts, Stone Edges, Drain Punches, Close Combats, and Iron Heads flying around in the current RU tier. To top it all off, the Ice-type also happens to be weak to Stealth Rock, which is never a good thing for a defensive type given how common the move is.

    and dammit guys i swear ill update this soon i just need to stop being lazyyy ;-;
  12. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    I apologize for double posting but i decided that i'd make a partial update to A rank for the time being on the Pokemon most of us agree with and/or i have decided on given the opinions of the many users who posted, i placed the rest of the A rank pokemon i havent placed into a fourth rank called "to be placed" for now. Ill try as hard as i can to place these Pokemon in their appropriate ranks in a timely fashion, so bear with me ;-;. Also remember that even the currently placed A rank mons can be changed if something is incorrect (or in Rotom's case, demoting it to B rank is an option), so if you strongly disagree with one of the placements i made, dont be afraid to voice your opinion!

    For reference, this is what A rank looks like right now:

  13. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    I might as well comment on the others

    Top:

    Spiritomb: Spiritomb is arguably the best ghost and psychic killer in the entire tier. Ghost / dark typing has no weaknesses, and although it has barely any resistances it has some great immunities to normal, psychic and fighting, and has the bulk to tank some pretty powerful hits such as queen earth power iirc. Although it can lure in some very powerful sweepers, such as Aggron, tomb does have wow and trick to stop a large majority of them from coming in without a scratch. Tomb is also one the only spinblockers capable of beating cryogonal which is very useful.

    Mid:

    Absol: Absol is an excellent revenge killer, and has the strongest priority in the game. This makes it an excellent answer to the likes of cinccino, galvantula and manectric, and absol is also one the best answers to dark and ghost types in the meta, as unlike tomb it doesn't invite the like of aggron in to smash something incredibly hard. 75 speed is not particularly good though, and it is really very frail keeping it in middle a IMO.

    Emboar: Emboar is a great anti-metagame pokemon, and it can deal with durant, escavalier, helps a lot against hail and is a fire type that is not sr weak, meaning you don't have to pair it with a spinner. Unfortunately it needs a Scarf to have any speed whatsoever, which locks it into a move with a large number of resistances in the tier. It also doesn't hit that hard with a scarf. It also faces stiff competition from entei, who hits harder and has espeed. Nonetheless, emboar is a very good poke in this metagame thanks to its typing and powerful STAB moves and deserves mid A.

    Durant: Durant is an incredibly powerful pokemon, and can easily shred the majority of the tier to pieces. It has very few safe switch ins-namely Poliwrath and qwilfish, and wrath is wrecked by CB and Qwil is easy to wear down because it has no recovery. Durant also has a nice speed tier of 109, allowing it to outspeed the majority of unboosted threats as well as some boosted threats such as +1 crawdaunt. However, durant is quite difficult to set-up, and without set-up it has a 20% chance to miss which is very unreliable, and it can easily be revenge killed by any neutral attack on the special side.

    Tangrowth: Tangrowth is easily one of the best physical walls in the metagame, and can take some of the hardest hits in the metagame, such as +2 Kabutops LO Stone Edge. Tangrowth also hits surprisingly hard for a physical wall, thanks to its excellent attacking stats for such a defensive poke. Sleep Powder gives it a nice way to hit its counters and incapacitate them, such as moltres. Offensive growth is also really great in this metagame, and can hit a huge majority of the metagame hard with Leaf Storm / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Rock, and can also tank a huge number of hits and recover of lost hp thanks to regenerator. However, Tangrowth is quite slow, and doesn't tank special hits well at all. A lot of the metagame's biggest threats are also very unkind to tangrowth, such as Moltres, nidoqueen and escavalier. Overally though tangrowth is a great poke in this metagame and deserves middle A rank IMO, or maybe even high.

    Poliwrath: Wrath is arguably the best physical wall in ru atm. Its ability to continually counter kabutops, durant, esca, absol, emboar and entei makes it an excellent choice for all defensive teams. Unfortunately, the metagame is not that kind to poliwrath, as it doesn't fit on offensive teams well at all due to its reliance on resttalk and weak attacking moves. Many common threats such as Nidoqueen, Moltres and sceptile can also make wrath's life a living hell. Nonetheless poliwrath is an excellent physical wall, and could even be put in high a due to its great walling capabilities.

    Low:

    Cinccino: Cinccino is a very annoying pokemon to face, thanks to its ability to break subs and its pretty huge power and high speed. Unfortunately, it is ridiculously frail, and it has barely any resistances(and ghost types wreck it anyway so the ghost immunity doesn't help much at all). It is also insanely weak to priority, and really struggles against bulky steels such as aggron(if not using wake up slap) and escavalier. Because of its lack of bulk and resistances, I think cinccino should be in low a.

    I don't have enough experience with Sigi and rotom-f to decide a rank, so I'm not going to comment on those.
  14. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    I'm gonna limit my post to Smeargle, and why I don't think it should be top A rank, but rather mid. Every single good RU team carries a means of beating smeargle. This can vary from things such as lum berry users such as gallade, uxie or kabutopa, sleep talkers such as entei, emboar or poliwrath, users of multihit moves such as cinccino or klinklang, substitute users such as sceptile, uxie, liepard or nidoqueen, taunters such as aerodactyl or qwilfish, faster sleep users such as lilligant, fake out users such as kangaskhan, or something else i've probably forgotten. My point is that nigh every good ru team will have one of these pokemon on their team, which acts as an excellent way to prevent smeargle from doing as it wishes. Two other contributing factors to my opinion is that one: in order to use smeargle to its maximum effectiveness it has to be run as a lead to preserve it focus sash, allowing you to instantly lead with an advantageous matchup. Second is the fact that smeargle's precious hazards are often prone to being blown away even if it does set them up, due to the effectiveness of kabutops and cryogonal.
  15. DrRobotnik

    DrRobotnik

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    Durant should definitely top IMO, if it sets up Hone Claws you're pretty much dead unless you're a Poliwrath, Steelix, or Magneton. It's easily my favorite Pokemon in the tier and I'm surprised it's not S or UU even.
  16. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    I would say that this would be why Smeargle should be Top A Rank. Yes, every solid team should be prepared for it, but they should also be prepared for things like Nidoqueen. Just because people carry means of beating a Pokemon doesn't mean it can't be a top tier threat. They should be prepared for Smeargle because it is such a huge threat in RU. Sure, Smeargle is easier to prepare for than something like Nidoqueen, but they do have to make sacrifices. Teams will sometimes have to sacrifice important components of sets in order to deal with it, such as Leftovers on Uxie or HP Grass on Entei. Any unprepared team, or even one without a spinner (you can't have one on every team ;<), will have trouble dealing with Smeargle's combination of Spore and SR/Spikes. Smeargle is even useful outside of setting up entry hazards, as the QuiverPass set is very frightening. The fact that it is beaten somewhat easily now is what is keeping Smeargle from being S Rank imo, so I believe that it deserves the closest thing to S.
  17. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    I'd like to propose adding Zweilous to C rank.

    [​IMG]
    Zweilous @ Eviolite
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Thunder Wave
    - Fire Fang
    - Crunch

    Zweilous works a lot like Druddigon(and is obviously worse). However, Zweilous has a dark typing, and a superior attack stat with Hustle which actually means it hits harder than Druddigon if using a CB. What sets it apart from druddigon is its dark typing. This allows it to hit the likes of Uxie, Dusknoir and other bulky ghosts and psychics. Unfortunately, this does give it a nasty fighting and bug weakness, which means that it can't counter the likes of sceptile as well as Druddigon, but I think it deserves a place in c rank due to its huge power, bulk and neat typing. It isn't a bad poke by any means, so not D or E rank,but it is mostly outclassed by Druddigon and does have significant flaws, such as being very slow, no leftovers if running eviolite and weaknesses to fighting, bug and ice so c rank seems about right imo.
  18. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Oh by the way, ive placed two more A rank Pokemon into their respective top/mid/low placements: Spiritomb and Emboar!

    After some thought i decided that top A was the best place for Spiritomb at the moment, it is easily one of the best Pursuit trappers and general "glue" Pokemon in the tier, serving as a check to a variety of Pokemon such as Gallade, Uxie, Slowking, Mesprit, Zangoose, Cinccino, Sigilyph, and more. Thanks to its good 50/108/108 bulk and immunities to common attacking types such as Normal, Fighting, and Psychic, Spiritomb usually has an easy time entering the match to do its job. Spiritomb also stands out as the only Ghost-type that has a good chance of beating Cryogonal, forcing it into a 50/50 situation with a combination of banded Pursuit and Sucker Punch/Return, making it good on spikestacking teams that need a defense against the snowflake. Despite its limited coverage and only average attacking stats, Spiritomb stands out as one of the most annoying Pokemon to deal with as well, being able to cripple the vast majority of its switch ins with Trick or Will-O-Wisp, and the few that arent particularly bothered by these two moves, such as Entei, happen to take a shitton from Foul Play, making Spiritomb even more of an annoyance. All in all i feel these combined qualities are more than enough to keep Spiritomb in top A rank for now, thoughts?

    Although i wasnt a big fan of Emboar in BW1, i dont think anyone will deny that Emboar is a great choice in the current RU metagame, in fact, almost every recent metagame shift has only made Emboar better tbh. From Durant and Hail making their return to the tier to Cresselia getting banned, Emboar has only become more antimetagame since the start of BW2. Choice Scarf Emboar provides offensive teams with a reliable check to things such as Blizzard spammers, Durant, Escavalier, Lilligant, Sceptile, and Amoonguss all in one teamslot! Which is pretty damn significant if you ask me. Choice Scarf Emboar also happens to have just the perfect Speed Tier for revenge killing, outrunning Sceptile by just a few points. The only thing really keeping Emboar from being top A rank is the fact that Entei still gives it a ton of competition even with its newfound niche, checking many of the same threats while also having a strong Extremespeed to work with. Nonthenless, Emboar is an excellent Pokemon and i think mid A rank is fine for it.

    EDIT: After some thought, ive also decided to place Absol in mid A rank for the time being, some people have advocated for both top on absol, but the vast majority of the playerbase (including myself) thinks that mid is fine for it.

    EDIT: Regarding regular Rotom, ive been using the scarf set quite a bit lately, and while i still think Rotom's perks are enough to keep it low A, i wouldnt be opposed to putting it in high B, just thought i'd get that out now :>.
  19. Fuchsia

    Fuchsia

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    I've found that subsplit Rotom is also pretty useful. In addition to spinblocking, it rarely doesn't net at least one kill
  20. Drakzis

    Drakzis

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    I'd suggest putting tangrowth at mid - high A, considering it's one of the best physical walls in the meta ATM, pretty able to take any physical attacks that aren't super effective, and retaliating with either sleep powder or appropriate attacking move. On top of that, regenerator allows it to switch in and out in response to it's checks, while keeping it healthy. It's probably one of my favourite pokemon in the tier, and serves as an amazing check against most physical sweepers bar Durant/Entei/Escavlier. I pair it most of the time with slowking for that good ol' double regenerator core :P

    Though, both of those pokemon are usually checked by Durant, so I tend to run parashuffler Druddigon along with that

    My set usually looks like this:

    Tangrowth @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVS: 252 Hp /200 Def / 56 SAtk
    Bold Nature(+Def, -Atk)
    - Knock Off/Leech Seed/Stun Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sleep Powder
  21. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
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    Alright I would like to nominate Hitmonlee for A Rank.

    I know alot of you have your doubts about the effectiveness of Hitmonlee but I have been using this alot lately and I gotta say, with just pursuit support this thing is an absolute monster and hits like a truck and is really effective late game. Hitmonlee just needs Psychic and Ghost types out of the way and a little prior damage on major physical walls like Tangrowth and Steelix (who are fairly uncommon anyway) and its good to go. Not to mention one of the best pursuit trappers in the tier is Spiritomb who as it just so happens can block Rapid Spin if you choose to add hazards.

    Alot of offensive teams are extremely unprepared for Hitmonlee, the bulk of them just carry something like Uxie or Slowking as their sole check. Uxie is extremely easy to pursuit trap especially if its the SR set as they will often lead, allowing you to lead with your pursuit trapper and effectively remove your biggest check turn 1. Slowking is a little trickier to Pursuit trap but is definitely doable and is made easier by the fact that HJK from Hitmonlee does a shit tonne unless its the Physically Defensive set. Hitmonlee is also extremely effective at just going straight through alot of Hail teams as with like alot of offensive teams they only carry one check (usually Slowking for Hail)

    Anyway if your not still not convinced I urge you to try out the Fighting Gem set which I will post below, it is vastly superior to the Normal Gem + Fake set, jut give it a little Pursuit support and some optional hazards and your good to go.

    The Set
    Show Hide
    Hitmonlee (M) @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Mach Punch


    HJK with Fighting Gem boosting it hits extremely hard, doing up to 60% to Tangrowth and Slowking, Earthquake is extremely useful for beating Nidoqueen, Qwilfish and denting grounded Ghost types such as Spiritomb early game before you sweep, Stone Edge adds great coverage and allows Hitmonlee to hit Flying types super effectively while Mach Punch is extremely useful for getting a boost against something faster than you like a Sceptile at around 50% health and is great at avoiding most of the priority in the tier bar espeed.
  22. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Here are some thoughts of mine

    While im totally open to other opinions, i really dont think Cinccino should be placed anywhere higher than mid A rank at the moment. While Cinccino is an excellent physical attacker all around, cleaning up late game with no trouble and annoying the opponent with its powerful multi hit moves early game, its incredibly frail and has a complete lack of resistances to switch in on, often making it challenging to get Cinccino into the match in the first place, as the majority of the tier 2hkos it at worst. The aforementioned flaws also make Cinccino very vulnerable to common priority moves such as Entei's Extremespeed, Kabutops/Feraligatr's Aqua Jet, Hitmonlee's Mach Punch, and Absol/Spiritomb's Sucker Punch, making it harder to pull off a Cinccino sweep and limiting it to cleaning up late game a most of the time. Because of this and the fact that Tauros and Zangoose suffer from pretty much the same flaws and are placed in low A rank, i think its appropriate to place Cinccino in mid A, or possibly even low A.

    Im also totally open to promoting Hitmonlee to A rank, New Breed urged me to use Fighting Gem Hitmonlee a few days ago and its been nothing short of excellent for me so far, being able to use Close Combat/Hi Jump Kick first turn to activate your gem is a huge boon compared to being forced to use the weak Fake Out to activate unburden. My only issue with Hitmonlee is trying to determine whether it should be top, mid, or low A rank, right now im thinking low is reasonable, but i'd like to see some second opinions on this.

    I changed untested around a bit as well, here are the pokemon i added/removed

    So what are your opinions on these mons? Are the viable? and if so, where should they be placed and why?
  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    As I said before, Mid A-Rank is pretty good for Cinccino. It is a boss offensively, and its three multi-hit moves can hit a lot for the pain. Then again, it has no way to deal with the steel and is frail. But it's still very good. Mid A seems right.

    Yeah, Hitmonlee to low A-Rank, I guess. It's a top threat to contend with, wrecks shit.

    Durant should be Top A-Rank imo. It has a shitload of power, and its typing is decent defensively, so it can take a few physical attacks well. It pretty much does a load of damage to everything and its lack of weakness to priority is something to speak of. It misses a lot, but its sheer power and typing make it a high A-Rank imo.
  24. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    By the way, despite the fact that we arent totally finished with placing all the Pokemon in A rank, i'd like to start focusing on the top/mid/low placement of B rank. So to clarify, you can still discuss the unplaced A rank Pokemon, but i'd really like to make sorting out B rank a priority. B rank is pretty big, and its going to take a while to sort it out entirely, so i think starting a bit early is a good idea. For anyone who doesnt feel like looking at the OP, here is the current B rank for reference:

    EDIT: I also decided to place Sigilyph and Poliwrath to mid A rank, im totally open to putting them somewhere else though, just make a good argument here and ill consider changing their placement (especially in the case of poliwrath, i know quite a few people think its top A material).
  25. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Just some initial thoughts:

    [​IMG]Hitmonlee is Top B Rank imo. The set that New Breed posted is definitely really good, but it does require team support to get past Psychics and Ghosts. This fits the definition of B Rank perfectly, that Hitmonlee requires a bit more team support than higher ranked mons to bring out its full potential.

    [​IMG]Drapion should probably be Low B, even High C maybe. It can't hit hard enough to do a ton of damage to any type of team, and it gets OHKOed by a lot of things and can't handle the offensive pressure of RU. Nevertheless, it's still a good Taunt user and a decent Pursuit trapper, so either one of these ranks would be fine. Definitely not higher, though.

    [​IMG]Snover belongs in Top B Rank. It single handedly makes hail teams viable, and also serves as a decent team supporter by wearing down the opponent or being important death fodder for hail teams. Snover deserves this spot since it's such an important Pokemon in the metagame.

    [​IMG] Rhydon should be Top B Rank as well. It is a powerful AND bulky threat—probably one of the best tanks in RU. It can set up Stealth Rock and phaze as well, making it an excellent team supporter. The only problems that Rhydon has is that it gets worn down very easily due to being weak to common attacks, no recovery even through Leftovers, and low Speed. Rhydon is definitely a beast though so I think Top B suits it well.

    [​IMG] I think that Aggron belongs in Top B Rank. Almost nothing can switch into a CB Head Smash and survive, and if they do, they will lose a ton of HP. The Rock Polish set is also pretty good, being able to threaten a Pokemon out due to its sheer power and get a free setup turn. It is also one of the only good Steel-types in RU, which is very important as a switch-in to Druddigon's Outrage and such.

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