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Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.
Don't overemphatize ice as the "worst" defensive type, because rock is.
I'd still say that it's Ice, Ice is 1-4 whereas Rock is 4-5 (same as Grass), so even though it is weak to one more type it can switch in safely more often. Rock is definitely at least second, though.
I'd also say ice is still a worse defensive type than rock, while Rock has more weaknesses then Ice, Ice also has a grand total of one resistance to fall back on (although ice resistance is kinda cool). All 4 of Ice's weaknesses are very common/important in the metagame, there are tons of Flare Blitzes, Fire Blasts, Stone Edges, Drain Punches, Close Combats, and Iron Heads flying around in the current RU tier. To top it all off, the Ice-type also happens to be weak to Stealth Rock, which is never a good thing for a defensive type given how common the move is.
and dammit guys i swear ill update this soon i just need to stop being lazyyy ;-;
I apologize for double posting but i decided that i'd make a partial update to A rank for the time being on the Pokemon most of us agree with and/or i have decided on given the opinions of the many users who posted, i placed the rest of the A rank pokemon i havent placed into a fourth rank called "to be placed" for now. Ill try as hard as i can to place these Pokemon in their appropriate ranks in a timely fashion, so bear with me ;-;. Also remember that even the currently placed A rank mons can be changed if something is incorrect (or in Rotom's case, demoting it to B rank is an option), so if you strongly disagree with one of the placements i made, dont be afraid to voice your opinion!
For reference, this is what A rank looks like right now:
I might as well comment on the others
Spiritomb: Spiritomb is arguably the best ghost and psychic killer in the entire tier. Ghost / dark typing has no weaknesses, and although it has barely any resistances it has some great immunities to normal, psychic and fighting, and has the bulk to tank some pretty powerful hits such as queen earth power iirc. Although it can lure in some very powerful sweepers, such as Aggron, tomb does have wow and trick to stop a large majority of them from coming in without a scratch. Tomb is also one the only spinblockers capable of beating cryogonal which is very useful.
Absol: Absol is an excellent revenge killer, and has the strongest priority in the game. This makes it an excellent answer to the likes of cinccino, galvantula and manectric, and absol is also one the best answers to dark and ghost types in the meta, as unlike tomb it doesn't invite the like of aggron in to smash something incredibly hard. 75 speed is not particularly good though, and it is really very frail keeping it in middle a IMO.
Emboar: Emboar is a great anti-metagame pokemon, and it can deal with durant, escavalier, helps a lot against hail and is a fire type that is not sr weak, meaning you don't have to pair it with a spinner. Unfortunately it needs a Scarf to have any speed whatsoever, which locks it into a move with a large number of resistances in the tier. It also doesn't hit that hard with a scarf. It also faces stiff competition from entei, who hits harder and has espeed. Nonetheless, emboar is a very good poke in this metagame thanks to its typing and powerful STAB moves and deserves mid A.
Durant: Durant is an incredibly powerful pokemon, and can easily shred the majority of the tier to pieces. It has very few safe switch ins-namely Poliwrath and qwilfish, and wrath is wrecked by CB and Qwil is easy to wear down because it has no recovery. Durant also has a nice speed tier of 109, allowing it to outspeed the majority of unboosted threats as well as some boosted threats such as +1 crawdaunt. However, durant is quite difficult to set-up, and without set-up it has a 20% chance to miss which is very unreliable, and it can easily be revenge killed by any neutral attack on the special side.
Tangrowth: Tangrowth is easily one of the best physical walls in the metagame, and can take some of the hardest hits in the metagame, such as +2 Kabutops LO Stone Edge. Tangrowth also hits surprisingly hard for a physical wall, thanks to its excellent attacking stats for such a defensive poke. Sleep Powder gives it a nice way to hit its counters and incapacitate them, such as moltres. Offensive growth is also really great in this metagame, and can hit a huge majority of the metagame hard with Leaf Storm / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Rock, and can also tank a huge number of hits and recover of lost hp thanks to regenerator. However, Tangrowth is quite slow, and doesn't tank special hits well at all. A lot of the metagame's biggest threats are also very unkind to tangrowth, such as Moltres, nidoqueen and escavalier. Overally though tangrowth is a great poke in this metagame and deserves middle A rank IMO, or maybe even high.
Poliwrath: Wrath is arguably the best physical wall in ru atm. Its ability to continually counter kabutops, durant, esca, absol, emboar and entei makes it an excellent choice for all defensive teams. Unfortunately, the metagame is not that kind to poliwrath, as it doesn't fit on offensive teams well at all due to its reliance on resttalk and weak attacking moves. Many common threats such as Nidoqueen, Moltres and sceptile can also make wrath's life a living hell. Nonetheless poliwrath is an excellent physical wall, and could even be put in high a due to its great walling capabilities.
Cinccino: Cinccino is a very annoying pokemon to face, thanks to its ability to break subs and its pretty huge power and high speed. Unfortunately, it is ridiculously frail, and it has barely any resistances(and ghost types wreck it anyway so the ghost immunity doesn't help much at all). It is also insanely weak to priority, and really struggles against bulky steels such as aggron(if not using wake up slap) and escavalier. Because of its lack of bulk and resistances, I think cinccino should be in low a.
I don't have enough experience with Sigi and rotom-f to decide a rank, so I'm not going to comment on those.
I'm gonna limit my post to Smeargle, and why I don't think it should be top A rank, but rather mid. Every single good RU team carries a means of beating smeargle. This can vary from things such as lum berry users such as gallade, uxie or kabutopa, sleep talkers such as entei, emboar or poliwrath, users of multihit moves such as cinccino or klinklang, substitute users such as sceptile, uxie, liepard or nidoqueen, taunters such as aerodactyl or qwilfish, faster sleep users such as lilligant, fake out users such as kangaskhan, or something else i've probably forgotten. My point is that nigh every good ru team will have one of these pokemon on their team, which acts as an excellent way to prevent smeargle from doing as it wishes. Two other contributing factors to my opinion is that one: in order to use smeargle to its maximum effectiveness it has to be run as a lead to preserve it focus sash, allowing you to instantly lead with an advantageous matchup. Second is the fact that smeargle's precious hazards are often prone to being blown away even if it does set them up, due to the effectiveness of kabutops and cryogonal.
Durant should definitely top IMO, if it sets up Hone Claws you're pretty much dead unless you're a Poliwrath, Steelix, or Magneton. It's easily my favorite Pokemon in the tier and I'm surprised it's not S or UU even.
I would say that this would be why Smeargle should be Top A Rank. Yes, every solid team should be prepared for it, but they should also be prepared for things like Nidoqueen. Just because people carry means of beating a Pokemon doesn't mean it can't be a top tier threat. They should be prepared for Smeargle because it is such a huge threat in RU. Sure, Smeargle is easier to prepare for than something like Nidoqueen, but they do have to make sacrifices. Teams will sometimes have to sacrifice important components of sets in order to deal with it, such as Leftovers on Uxie or HP Grass on Entei. Any unprepared team, or even one without a spinner (you can't have one on every team ;<), will have trouble dealing with Smeargle's combination of Spore and SR/Spikes. Smeargle is even useful outside of setting up entry hazards, as the QuiverPass set is very frightening. The fact that it is beaten somewhat easily now is what is keeping Smeargle from being S Rank imo, so I believe that it deserves the closest thing to S.
I'd like to propose adding Zweilous to C rank.
Zweilous @ Eviolite
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
- Thunder Wave
- Fire Fang
Zweilous works a lot like Druddigon(and is obviously worse). However, Zweilous has a dark typing, and a superior attack stat with Hustle which actually means it hits harder than Druddigon if using a CB. What sets it apart from druddigon is its dark typing. This allows it to hit the likes of Uxie, Dusknoir and other bulky ghosts and psychics. Unfortunately, this does give it a nasty fighting and bug weakness, which means that it can't counter the likes of sceptile as well as Druddigon, but I think it deserves a place in c rank due to its huge power, bulk and neat typing. It isn't a bad poke by any means, so not D or E rank,but it is mostly outclassed by Druddigon and does have significant flaws, such as being very slow, no leftovers if running eviolite and weaknesses to fighting, bug and ice so c rank seems about right imo.
Oh by the way, ive placed two more A rank Pokemon into their respective top/mid/low placements: Spiritomb and Emboar!
After some thought i decided that top A was the best place for Spiritomb at the moment, it is easily one of the best Pursuit trappers and general "glue" Pokemon in the tier, serving as a check to a variety of Pokemon such as Gallade, Uxie, Slowking, Mesprit, Zangoose, Cinccino, Sigilyph, and more. Thanks to its good 50/108/108 bulk and immunities to common attacking types such as Normal, Fighting, and Psychic, Spiritomb usually has an easy time entering the match to do its job. Spiritomb also stands out as the only Ghost-type that has a good chance of beating Cryogonal, forcing it into a 50/50 situation with a combination of banded Pursuit and Sucker Punch/Return, making it good on spikestacking teams that need a defense against the snowflake. Despite its limited coverage and only average attacking stats, Spiritomb stands out as one of the most annoying Pokemon to deal with as well, being able to cripple the vast majority of its switch ins with Trick or Will-O-Wisp, and the few that arent particularly bothered by these two moves, such as Entei, happen to take a shitton from Foul Play, making Spiritomb even more of an annoyance. All in all i feel these combined qualities are more than enough to keep Spiritomb in top A rank for now, thoughts?
Although i wasnt a big fan of Emboar in BW1, i dont think anyone will deny that Emboar is a great choice in the current RU metagame, in fact, almost every recent metagame shift has only made Emboar better tbh. From Durant and Hail making their return to the tier to Cresselia getting banned, Emboar has only become more antimetagame since the start of BW2. Choice Scarf Emboar provides offensive teams with a reliable check to things such as Blizzard spammers, Durant, Escavalier, Lilligant, Sceptile, and Amoonguss all in one teamslot! Which is pretty damn significant if you ask me. Choice Scarf Emboar also happens to have just the perfect Speed Tier for revenge killing, outrunning Sceptile by just a few points. The only thing really keeping Emboar from being top A rank is the fact that Entei still gives it a ton of competition even with its newfound niche, checking many of the same threats while also having a strong Extremespeed to work with. Nonthenless, Emboar is an excellent Pokemon and i think mid A rank is fine for it.
EDIT: After some thought, ive also decided to place Absol in mid A rank for the time being, some people have advocated for both top on absol, but the vast majority of the playerbase (including myself) thinks that mid is fine for it.
EDIT: Regarding regular Rotom, ive been using the scarf set quite a bit lately, and while i still think Rotom's perks are enough to keep it low A, i wouldnt be opposed to putting it in high B, just thought i'd get that out now :>.
I've found that subsplit Rotom is also pretty useful. In addition to spinblocking, it rarely doesn't net at least one kill
I'd suggest putting tangrowth at mid - high A, considering it's one of the best physical walls in the meta ATM, pretty able to take any physical attacks that aren't super effective, and retaliating with either sleep powder or appropriate attacking move. On top of that, regenerator allows it to switch in and out in response to it's checks, while keeping it healthy. It's probably one of my favourite pokemon in the tier, and serves as an amazing check against most physical sweepers bar Durant/Entei/Escavlier. I pair it most of the time with slowking for that good ol' double regenerator core :P
Though, both of those pokemon are usually checked by Durant, so I tend to run parashuffler Druddigon along with that
My set usually looks like this:
Tangrowth @ Leftovers
EVS: 252 Hp /200 Def / 56 SAtk
Bold Nature(+Def, -Atk)
- Knock Off/Leech Seed/Stun Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
Alright I would like to nominate Hitmonlee for A Rank.
I know alot of you have your doubts about the effectiveness of Hitmonlee but I have been using this alot lately and I gotta say, with just pursuit support this thing is an absolute monster and hits like a truck and is really effective late game. Hitmonlee just needs Psychic and Ghost types out of the way and a little prior damage on major physical walls like Tangrowth and Steelix (who are fairly uncommon anyway) and its good to go. Not to mention one of the best pursuit trappers in the tier is Spiritomb who as it just so happens can block Rapid Spin if you choose to add hazards.
Alot of offensive teams are extremely unprepared for Hitmonlee, the bulk of them just carry something like Uxie or Slowking as their sole check. Uxie is extremely easy to pursuit trap especially if its the SR set as they will often lead, allowing you to lead with your pursuit trapper and effectively remove your biggest check turn 1. Slowking is a little trickier to Pursuit trap but is definitely doable and is made easier by the fact that HJK from Hitmonlee does a shit tonne unless its the Physically Defensive set. Hitmonlee is also extremely effective at just going straight through alot of Hail teams as with like alot of offensive teams they only carry one check (usually Slowking for Hail)
Anyway if your not still not convinced I urge you to try out the Fighting Gem set which I will post below, it is vastly superior to the Normal Gem + Fake set, jut give it a little Pursuit support and some optional hazards and your good to go.
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Hitmonlee (M) @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Mach Punch
HJK with Fighting Gem boosting it hits extremely hard, doing up to 60% to Tangrowth and Slowking, Earthquake is extremely useful for beating Nidoqueen, Qwilfish and denting grounded Ghost types such as Spiritomb early game before you sweep, Stone Edge adds great coverage and allows Hitmonlee to hit Flying types super effectively while Mach Punch is extremely useful for getting a boost against something faster than you like a Sceptile at around 50% health and is great at avoiding most of the priority in the tier bar espeed.
Hitmonlee (M) @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Mach Punch
Here are some thoughts of mine
While im totally open to other opinions, i really dont think Cinccino should be placed anywhere higher than mid A rank at the moment. While Cinccino is an excellent physical attacker all around, cleaning up late game with no trouble and annoying the opponent with its powerful multi hit moves early game, its incredibly frail and has a complete lack of resistances to switch in on, often making it challenging to get Cinccino into the match in the first place, as the majority of the tier 2hkos it at worst. The aforementioned flaws also make Cinccino very vulnerable to common priority moves such as Entei's Extremespeed, Kabutops/Feraligatr's Aqua Jet, Hitmonlee's Mach Punch, and Absol/Spiritomb's Sucker Punch, making it harder to pull off a Cinccino sweep and limiting it to cleaning up late game a most of the time. Because of this and the fact that Tauros and Zangoose suffer from pretty much the same flaws and are placed in low A rank, i think its appropriate to place Cinccino in mid A, or possibly even low A.
Im also totally open to promoting Hitmonlee to A rank, New Breed urged me to use Fighting Gem Hitmonlee a few days ago and its been nothing short of excellent for me so far, being able to use Close Combat/Hi Jump Kick first turn to activate your gem is a huge boon compared to being forced to use the weak Fake Out to activate unburden. My only issue with Hitmonlee is trying to determine whether it should be top, mid, or low A rank, right now im thinking low is reasonable, but i'd like to see some second opinions on this.
I changed untested around a bit as well, here are the pokemon i added/removed
So what are your opinions on these mons? Are the viable? and if so, where should they be placed and why?
As I said before, Mid A-Rank is pretty good for Cinccino. It is a boss offensively, and its three multi-hit moves can hit a lot for the pain. Then again, it has no way to deal with the steel and is frail. But it's still very good. Mid A seems right.
Yeah, Hitmonlee to low A-Rank, I guess. It's a top threat to contend with, wrecks shit.
Durant should be Top A-Rank imo. It has a shitload of power, and its typing is decent defensively, so it can take a few physical attacks well. It pretty much does a load of damage to everything and its lack of weakness to priority is something to speak of. It misses a lot, but its sheer power and typing make it a high A-Rank imo.
By the way, despite the fact that we arent totally finished with placing all the Pokemon in A rank, i'd like to start focusing on the top/mid/low placement of B rank. So to clarify, you can still discuss the unplaced A rank Pokemon, but i'd really like to make sorting out B rank a priority. B rank is pretty big, and its going to take a while to sort it out entirely, so i think starting a bit early is a good idea. For anyone who doesnt feel like looking at the OP, here is the current B rank for reference:
EDIT: I also decided to place Sigilyph and Poliwrath to mid A rank, im totally open to putting them somewhere else though, just make a good argument here and ill consider changing their placement (especially in the case of poliwrath, i know quite a few people think its top A material).
Just some initial thoughts:
Hitmonlee is Top B Rank imo. The set that New Breed posted is definitely really good, but it does require team support to get past Psychics and Ghosts. This fits the definition of B Rank perfectly, that Hitmonlee requires a bit more team support than higher ranked mons to bring out its full potential.
Drapion should probably be Low B, even High C maybe. It can't hit hard enough to do a ton of damage to any type of team, and it gets OHKOed by a lot of things and can't handle the offensive pressure of RU. Nevertheless, it's still a good Taunt user and a decent Pursuit trapper, so either one of these ranks would be fine. Definitely not higher, though.
Snover belongs in Top B Rank. It single handedly makes hail teams viable, and also serves as a decent team supporter by wearing down the opponent or being important death fodder for hail teams. Snover deserves this spot since it's such an important Pokemon in the metagame.
Rhydon should be Top B Rank as well. It is a powerful AND bulky threat—probably one of the best tanks in RU. It can set up Stealth Rock and phaze as well, making it an excellent team supporter. The only problems that Rhydon has is that it gets worn down very easily due to being weak to common attacks, no recovery even through Leftovers, and low Speed. Rhydon is definitely a beast though so I think Top B suits it well.
I think that Aggron belongs in Top B Rank. Almost nothing can switch into a CB Head Smash and survive, and if they do, they will lose a ton of HP. The Rock Polish set is also pretty good, being able to threaten a Pokemon out due to its sheer power and get a free setup turn. It is also one of the only good Steel-types in RU, which is very important as a switch-in to Druddigon's Outrage and such.
I'll chime in and give what I think should be high, mid, and low B-Rankers.
Aerodactyl, Aggron, Amoonguss, Bouffalant, Braviary, Crustle, Golurk, Hitmonlee, Lanturn, Mesprit, Rhydon, Roselia, Snover, Steelix
Aerodactyl is a very good speedy Stealth Rocker, and is a pretty good lead. It also has very good speed and decent coverage to boot, which is also a plus. Aerodactyl has decent power, and its Speed is outpaced only by the mighty Accelgor, so it can deal quick damage to things. That said, it's frail, and sometimes it may not hit hard enough, therefore, high B is pretty good for it.
Aggron is, simply put, one hell of a hard hitter. His CB boosted Head Smash coming off of that spiked head is going to bring a shitload of pain to like...everything. Even if the target manages to survive the hit, they will be sure to take a lot of damage, and almost nothing can avoid a 2HKO. It can run a utility role, which is an okay set, while an RP set can definitely sweep. Its Steel typing is very good as well, and grants it some very good resistances, but also some crippling weaknesses. Still, Aggron is one of the scariest hard-hitters and Top B Rank is good; it's a force to be reckoned with.
Bouffalant is a powerful and useful Pokemon. His 110 Attack and Head Charge already make him a good hard hitter, but he also has Sap Sipper, making him a very good switch-in to threats such as Sceptile, Rotom-C, Lilligant, and Tangrowth (and Whimsicott, lol). The attack boost from it also makes him even more powerful and can smash a lot of shit with SubSD, and you'll be sure to have to sack at least two of your Pokemon in the process. The CB set is also very good and hits hard right off the bat, and smashes house. 95/95/95 bulk is nothing to laugh at either, and can take some hits, especially given that it only has one weakness. It's definitely one of the best of the B's.
Braviary is very good in RU, despite ironically being NU. It has high Attack and a very good STAB move in Brave Bird that can hit a lot of things for great damage. The Choice Band set is an absolutely incredible wallbreaker and can put sizable dents in everything, and its excellent coverage move in Superpower only comes to complement that. It can also keep up momentum with U-turn, and this allows it to scout switch-ins like Steelix and his gang. Braviary also has decent 100 / 75 / 75 bulk to boot, so he can take his fair share of hits quite well. Scarf is an okay revenge killer, and the SubBU set is decent, although not at its best like it is in NU. Overall, Braviary is a very good Pokemon and should fit in well with the Top B-Rankers.
Crustle is one of the best spikers RU has to offer. Thanks to his ability, Sturdy, and a very usable 125 Defense stat to boot, Crustle can very reliably set up numerous layers of Spikes throughout the match. Stealth Rock is a nice bonus to the cake as well, making a full hazard trap to benefit many teams. This makes Crustle a very useful lead in the tier. While he faces competition from Smeargle, he has some qualities that allow him to stand out. Firstly, Crustle sports good bulk, as well as auto-Sash in Sturdy, so he can take more hits and last a bit longer to get 'dem hazards up. The other thing that makes Crustle a good lead is that unlike Smeargle, he can pack an offensive punch, so using Rock Blast, X-Scissor, and his good 95 Attack, he can put the hurt on common leads like Smeargle (after that thing has Spored something), Snover, and Uxie. Crustle also is capable of running a deadly as fuck Shell Smash set, and while 45 Speed isn't exactly the greatest, it's good enough to allow Crustle to get his sweep going. His very good Defense also ensures priority doesn't fuck him over, bar Aqua Jet from Gatr/Tops. This thing also pairs very well with a spinblocker, and is just a very good Pokemon overall.
Golurk is a very powerful Pokemon in RU, albeit very underrated. With a titanic 124 Attack, very good STAB's in Earthquake and Shadow Punch, usable bulk, and a nice physical movepool, Golurk has quite a bit going for it. Firstly, it's a decent tank in RU, and it can check some Fighting-types somewhat well, as well as being a decent Stealth Rock user who can block Spin (but the fact that it struggles with Tops and Cryo will ensure you may need another spinblocker, such as Rotom. CB is a very powerful wallbreaker, and its power is just great. CB is an amazing set.
Hitmonlee is one powerful threat in RU who isn't to be underestimated. His high Attack, Hi Jump Kick, and decent Speed tier make him a powerful force to be reckoned with. With Reckless+LO, his Hi Jump Kick will demolish everything bar Psychic and Ghost-types, which can be solved via Absol. New Breed's Unburden set is also very cool, and using Hi Jump Kick with Unburden is nice, and also allows Lee to outspeed a very good portion of the metagame. That said, it struggles a lot with Psychic and Ghost-types, so support from the likes of Absol/Spiritomb is needed for Hitmonlee to excel.
Lanturn is a very good bulky Water-type in the tier and a usable special wall. This thing has enough bulk to take on threats such as Moltres, Omastar, and to a lesser extent Cryogonal with relative ease. It also has access to Volt Switch to keep momentum intact, while Heal Bell makes it a very good cleric. These make Lanturn a solid Pokemon. Despite this, Lanturn has no recovery, and repeated onslaughts will eventually take their toll. TO make matters worse, Lanturn won't be able to fare very well against Sceptile and Lilligant not only because he is weak to them, but because he is powerless, which his lack of any offensive presence makes him setup fodder very often.
Mesprit is extremely versatile and has a nice balance of stats. Despite competition from Uxie, Mesprit still has her place. She can run many different sets, ranging from a SR lead to a CM user to Choice. Her good 105 offenses and 80 Speed allow her to do an offensive job, doing Offensive CM very well and hitting fairly hard. Choice Specs and Scarf are also very viable and she can certainly do this well with the great coverage in her movepool. Mesprit also has some useful support options like Stealth Rock, Rain Dance/Sunny Day, and Trick Room, allowing her to be a useful team supporter who can hit back, and she even has Ice Beam to get at those Druddigons that trouble sun teams. Healing Wish is also phenomenal and allows her to be useful to get injured teammates to full condition. Mesprit also has a nice 105 Attack to use CB, and it works decently well. I think this is a high B-Rank, because despite competition, Mesprit still is very good in the RU metagame and fits in with the high B-Rankers.
Rhydon is one of the manliest Pokemon to ever be created, but he's not limited simply to being manly. Because he is an NFE, he can utilize Eviolite. With this, he's one of the most physically bulky Pokemon in the game. Using his excellent bulk and usable typing, he can check threats such as Entei and Bouffalant with some ease. Rhydon also has Stealth Rock, and is a very good user of the move and can also use Dragon Tail to phaze. Rhydon also has a high 130 Attack and phenomenal STAB's, so he can hit very hard as well. He has a number of exploitable weaknesses and is slow, plus no recovery, but his qualities definitely make him Top B.
I might get some disagreement here, but I find Roselia to be a very useful supportive Pokemon in RU. Her access to Spikes makes her a great asset to numerous teams to lay the hazard down, which she does very reliably due to her positive qualities, of which she has plenty. Eviolite along with a Grass/Poison typing make her a good special wall, taking on some common special attackers such as Sceptile, Omastar, Galvantula, and Lilligant. Her perks don't stop there; she has access to Natural Cure, so she doesn't really care about status; and if she's forced out, status is no worry. This also allows her to effectively utilize Rest as recovery, fully healing herself while switching out to cure, as opposed to Munchlax who is dead weight as soon as he clicks Rest. She also has a good 100 Special Attack to deal good chunks of damage to the Pokemon she can take on, which is a nice plus. Roselia is definitely one of the best bulky spikers in RU, despite dropping to NU recently (Read: The only reason Rose dropped is because bad PS ladder dismisses it while using bad shit like Munchlax and Sandslash)
Snover is by himself a very mediocre Pokemon, but the fact that he commands his own playstyle is something. He is a good lead, opening up starting damage with Blizzards and Hail damage, so he can start off the match. He also allows you to throw nasty Blizzards, which Nidoqueen and Slowking can use to their advantage, as well as Escavalier working well in it. With Stallrein and many BlizzSpammers around, this only adds to the fun. Snover is also excellent death fodder, which may be needed to enter dangerous yet frail threats like Cryogonal. Snover is definitely one great Pokemon in RU.
Steelix is one of the great physical walls in RU and his menacing grin comes to the field at many physical attackers. Sporting a Steel-typing and a massive 200 Defense, Steelix can take on a myriad of physical attackers such as Escavalier, Braviary, and Aggron. His access to Stealth Rock is also helpful for the team, and shuffling with Roar is a plus. 85 Attack is kinda mediocre, but with Gyro Ball and Earthquake it does decent enough damage. Steelix is a strong physical wall, and is definitely a behemoth.
Sorry for the short post, I'll continue on with this later. But just some initial thoughts on what should be Top B imo.
Magmortar should definetly be top B-Rank IMO. While it does face stiff competition with moltres, Magmortar has access to thunderbolt and focus blast, giving it a solid niche over the turkey. Magmortar also happens to get EQ and Cross chop, allowing mixed sets to function somewhat well. Magmortar has an okayish base 83 speed, allowing it to outpace common base 80's but falling to the base 90's It also has dual chop, though you'll rarely be using this move. Magmortar may not be the best pokemon in the tier, but definetly deserves high B-Rank.
I ranked all them except for Seismitoad, and Gardevoir because idk how they do in RU. Descriptions are kinda short, sorry... Pictures will show up later lol
Aggron – Aggron's Head Smash hits extremely hard and it is therefore really difficult to switch into. Its physical bulk and Steel-typing also help it quite a bit, allowing it to tank Druddigon's Outrage and other physical attacks with extreme ease, and it also helps that Rock is an excellent offensive type in RU. It is also OK at supporting or using Automize to sweep.
Amoonguss – Nice typing and Regenerator help it wall a bunch of crap in the metagame like Water-types and Fighting-types. Oh yeah and Spore is pretty cool as well, as it is guaranteed to shut down a Pokémon. Its set-up fodder for a ton of Pokémon though, which can be extremely detrimental.
Braviary – Power, power, power. That's all Braviary stands for, and its pretty good in that regard. Powerful moves, decent amount of options, Braviary is one of the better Flying-types out there and Steel-types don't exactly wall it thanks to Superpower.
Bouffalant – Sap Sipper, this thing's bulk, and this thing's Attack stat are all great. Bouffalant hits like a truck and is difficult to take down, as its STAB with a Choice Band and a Sap Sipper boost can 2HKO stuff like Escavalier, which is pretty crazy. Pretty straightforward.
Feraligatr – Kabutops is arguably better, but Feraligatr can set up on more stuff thanks to less weaknesses and a pretty good bulk. It also has Dragon Dance, and it’s a lot faster than Crawdaunt is in that regard. It has competition with boosting stuff but it's still plenty powerful and has pretty balanced stats in all other areas, meaning it is a threat to a lot of stuff.
Hitmonlee – Hits like a truck, but it's easy as hell to wall with the right Pokémon. The good (or bad) news is that Hitmonlee's counters are easy to take out with Pursuit support, so it can use Unburden or Reckless to power through a lot of Pokémon. It's pretty scary in both regards.
Ludicolo – This thing in the rain is an absolute beast. Outside of the rain it isn't bad. This thing's typing helps it succeed a lot in the metagame, as under the rain most relavent threats are hit really hard (Grass/Ice/Water does a lot to every S-Ranked Pokémon in the tier other than Uxie). It's not really that strong but it is definetly a legitimate threat, albeit overlooked.
Magmortar – An extremely dangerous wallbreaker due to its good coverage and it's amazing Special Attack. It is extremely hard to switch into thanks to a Fire Blast that hits as hard as Moltres's and thanks to Thunderbolt it has a reliable and scary way to take down stuff like Slowking. Most of its counters are also rare. It’s a bit slow and has a meh physical bulk (its special bulk is actually pretty good though) but it otherwise it a threatening Pokémon.
Rhydon – Takes hits like nothing on the physical side and hits hard enough to make opponents feel a definite sting. Its physical bulk and offense make it a huge offensive and defensive threat, and arguably one of the greatest tanks in the entire metagame. This thing will not go down without a fight because it's not easy to switch into thanks to powerful STABs.
Snover – Snover itself is pretty mediocre but the hail it summons is a huge threat or boon to literally almost everything in the RU tier. Snover is also capable of at least doing something before it dies almost immediately, so it isn't 100% dead weight. Hail is an extremely useful tool – having it up is essential in many regards.
Steelix – Its pretty much a Steel-type Rhydon with a worse Attack. However, thanks to its typing, Steelix is a hard stop to a lot of Pokémon in the tier, and not even Earthquakes are going to kill this thing off. It has a lot more resistances compared to Rhydon, and its Gyro Ball certainly isn't weak. Getting 3HKOed by Super Effective moves is pretty resilient.
Typhlosion – Well, there isn't much to say about Typhlosion other than it is a fast, hard hitter. I mean really stuff gets wrecked by Eruption and Fire Blast even if it resists it sort of thing. It's faster than all the relevant Fire-types in the tier too, which is pretty cool. Stealth Rock weakness doesn't pair well with Eruption though, but its not like Fire Blast doesn't hit hard.
Aerodactyl – Pretty standard hard hitter. Extremely fast and a decent lead, but one thing I hate about this thing is that Stone Edge is extremely unreliable… and it's pretty much the only strong move Aerodactyl has other than Earthquake! Stealth Rock lead is OK but not too stellar. Its overall a fairly above average Pokémon, with a high speed and usable other quirks. It's also frail so can't take Aqua Jets well (a common priority move)
Clefable – I can't say much about Clefable, but it is a special wall, it has a great movepool, and has Magic Guard. Not much in the way of typing so it is weak to all the Fighting-types that roam around RU, but its fairly versatile, does well against a lot of Special Attacker, and is difficult to wear down, making it a good team player.
Carracosta – It’s a pretty good Pokémon. It has a great physical bulk and is pretty strong after a Shell Smash. It has a TON of weaknesses for a defensive Pokémon though, which is pretty annoying. Otherwise, Carracosta is an in general solid Pokémon, aside from its Speed being so low that its easily outpaced after it smashes its shell.
Crustle – Good Pokémon at setting up Spikes and Stealth Rock, mostly because it has both and has a good physical bulk to utilize. It's also a surprisingly good sweeper with Shell Smash due to Sturdy and a decent Attack, as well as enough Speed to do alright (though it is pretty dang slow). It also isn't 100% screwed against Slowking because it’s a bug. It’s a little easy to take advantage of though/easy-ish to stop depending on the set.
Galvantula – Thunder with good accuracy, good dual typing offensively, and pretty fast, Galvantula is a pretty threatening Electric-type Pokémon. However, its good offensive typing is bad defensively, and its fragility doesn't help. It's also walled by a few Pokémon fairly easily. It's fairly average in most regards but it's still pretty good.
Golurk – Not that great of a Spinblocker but it is a good tank. Unique typing, massive attack, decent movepool on the offensive side with Stealth Rock, and it can check a variety of Pokémon due to all of these traits. Not as bulky as one would think and a low speed are both fairly large flaws though, and its typing leaves it vulnerable to a lot of Pokémon.
Glaceon – Good inside of hail, but pretty much unusable outside of it. Dependence on Snover prevents me from ranking this thing higher, although inside of Hail it is pretty much one of the hardest hitting Pokémon you will ever come in contact with.
Klinklang – This thing is really, really easy to wall with the appropriate Pokémon due to its pathetic movepool which literally gives it almost nothing. However, it's still pretty awesome as a sweeper due to Shift Gear being an excellent move and all. It's not too hard to set up either, but a lot of Pokémon just flat out beat it which is why I think Mid is appropriate.
Lanturn – It sports a great typing and such but it doesn't have recovery or very many support moves (honesty only Heal Bell, Toxic, and Thunder Wave, which isn't much). Its also not really that strong. It’s a good way to take on a lot of Pokémon due to its typing and Volt Absorb, both of which are phenomenal and unique and stuff, though its special attack isn't great. Its bulk is also good. I'm all over the place on this one sorry.
Manectric – Nidoqueen pretty much killed this thing's chance at its main role. Despite that, Manectric is still a decent Electric-type. Lightingrod isn't great anymore but it is still an OK Special Attacker due to its high speed and decent movepool. It’s a bit one-dimensional, sadly, but otherwise it’s a pretty decent Pokémon.
Medicham – Hits so freaking hard it isn't even funny with Hi Jump Kick. Unlike Hitmonlee it actually can defeat some Ghosts out there which is a pretty big advantage. It is still somewhat vulnerable to Ghosts though and has a lot of competition from Gallade which is sorta unfortunate, but again, insane Attack.
Misdreavus – This thing is a pretty good spinblocker imo. It has a lot of good qualities for a wall, including a decent special attack to make it not complete set-up fodder, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split for iffy recovery, and Heal Bell. It still isn't really bulky even with an Eviolite though, but its overall not bad.
Omastar – Shell Smash is brutal! Sadly, setting it up is a bit harder than I would like due to a lot of weaknesses and a low speed. Once it sets up it’s an absolute pain to stop due to its high power and good enough coverage. Its also alright in a supporting role because it’s a Water-type with Spikes.
Piloswine – Good tank if I do say so myself. Similarly to in NU, it takes hits and hits back, doing both well thanks to its high defense and its great offensive typing that makes it somewhat hard to wall. Very reliable overall but it has a lot of really annoying weaknesses that it ironically should have dealt with with a STAB move sometimes (Fire and Grass for example)
Samurott – Swords Dance and Mixed Attacking sets are both solid, but not knowing which one Samurott has is what makes it pretty scary. Its hard to counter both sets at the same time, and even then, Megahorn really helps Samurott stand out. It gets competition from other Water-types in both things because its slow and it has the same checks as all of them, but its slight versatility and Megahorn make it pretty cool.
Walrein - Good inside of hail, but pretty much unusable outside of it. Dependence on Snover prevents me from ranking this thing higher, although inside of Hail it is pretty much one of the most annoying and reslient Pokémon you will ever come in contact with.
Crawdaunt – Kinda hard to set up and not very fast even after setting up. Not outspeeding Sceptile is a serious problem for a Pokémon that gets wrecked by it, and its defensive typing is also pretty bad because its weak to so many moves. It does have the advantage of hitting extremely hard though thanks to Adaptability and a great STAB combo, but setting up Dragon Dance is pretty hard.
Drapion – idk what the heck happened to Drapion but it went from being really good to being… fairly mediocre pretty fast, and it wasn't just because of Cresselia either – it's just SOMETHING happened to it. It’s a pretty good Ghost- and Psychic-type trapper/killer and its OK at Swords Dancing, but Drapion is disappointing in regards to damage output due to that 90 base Attack and relatively weak moves.
Fraxure – Fraxure is pretty hard to set up due to its meh bulk and speed, but its high Attack and decent speed (AFTER the boost mind you) along with Outrage make it very hard to take hits from. Sadly, aside from Outrage there isn't much it can do to hit hard, because you can't get yourself locked into Outrage when there are Steel-types on the field unless you want to die/lose all your boosts from phazing.
Mesprit – Mesprit has always been sort of a jack of all trades, but to an extent master of none to me. Really balanced, but Slowking and Uxie are both great Pokémon and give it a ton of competition. Its versatile, but its roles are hard to differentiate and its stats are overall not really suited to do one specific thing well compared to everything else.
Miltank – Miltank has a high defense and a lot of supporting options, and can even go the offensive route, along with the fact that it has some seriously really good abilities, but it often seems to fall short for some reason in many areas, and sometimes I'm not sure why it does, most likely because each set has a few exploitable flaws.
Roselia – Metagame really isn't all too kind to Roselia atm. Its weaknesses are unfortunate in a metagame with Hail, Fire, and hard-hitting Physical Attackers, and in most respects Amoonguss is better. It is a decent Water check and Spikes user but Roselia is sorta struggling to do well right now, hence the recent drop.
Sawsbuck – It's OK. Its speed is kinda mediocre, and its Grass STAB is sorta disappointing because its weak, but it's an overall solid Pokémon thanks to Swords Dance, strong coverage moves, Sap Sipper is a decent ability, etc. It's good but not great as of what it seems like.
Scolipede – It gets a lot of competition no matter what it does. Accelgor is a Bug-type with Spikes but its faster, and its Attack isn't great for Swords Dance, but its still pretty good. Fairly high speed, Megahorn, and Spikes give it the advantages that it needs, but Scolipede is fairly easy to wall with the right stuff. High-C may be appropriate for this thing, actually, but whatever.
Swellow – Swellow is high-risk, high-reward. Its NOT easy to get rid of what walls it, and there are tons of very good Pokémon that completely wall it. Once they are gone it can sweep teams with ease because of its immense speed (Emboar can't revenge kill it with a Scarf), Guts, and super strong moves, but setting up is also a bit difficult because it is NOT bulky.
I know we finished the top/mid/low placement for S rank quite a while ago, but what do you all think of moving Druddigon to top S rank? Druddigon is one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier at the moment, terrorizing almost every team with its powerful Dragon STAB and good offensive movepool, having almost no safe switch ins to speak of. Because of Druddigon's good 77/90/90 Bulk and resistances to common attacking types such as Electric, Water, Grass, and Fire, its very easy to get Druddigon into the match to wreak havoc. The same bulk and resistances makes it very easy to fit Druddigon on a team, as it provides a check to a ton of threats such as Sceptile, Lilligant, Entei, Rotom-C, and Slowking in one teamslot. Not to mention that Druddigon has access to Stealth Rock and is incredibly good at setting it up, making it an even better fit for a ton of teams.
So what do you think? do you think this is enough to justify promoting Druddigon to top S rank? Or do you think it should remain in mid S?
Oh by the way, i also decided to add Altaria to untested, does anyone have any experience with him?
EDIT: i have placed Cinccino and Rotom-F in low A rank and durant in top A rank for now, meaning the only Pokemon i need to decide a placement on is Tangrowth, thoughts?
I can agree with moving druddigon up. Its one of the most powerful choice banders around and has a similar movepool with D-Nite. Firepunch allows druddigon to beat foes such as escalaver. I would say more, but I have to study.
Despite the fact that Druddigon is incredible I don't think it is quite worthy for the Top. When you look at Top S, you have Nidoqueen, which is without a doubt the most powerful wallbreaker in the tier, and Slowking, which is incredibly resilient and walls tons of threats. Druddigon is a great Pokemon, but what kinda sucks is that while Steel-types are around Outrage can't really be used, its fairly slow, and while its bulky, its not really THAT bulky, and it isnt really good against Hail. 4 sorta minor issues, but they add up to make it A bit flawed in RU. It checks a ton of threats and is a huge offensive force but I don't think it is as good at everything as Nidoqueen and Slowking are (hence why they dominate the metagame)
Just going to provide my opinion on a Pokemon i think should undeniably be top B rank: Rhydon.
I really think its no question that Rhydon should be top B rank. While Rhydon wasnt too shabby defensively before, the ability to use Eviolite bolster's Rhydon's already amazing physical bulk to unimaginable levels, making it the single most physically bulky Pokemon in the whole game when holding the item. Eviolite Rhydon is so bulky on the physical side that its even capable of surviving Waterfalls from things like Kabutops with the right ev spread, which is really impressive given the fact that Rhydon has a 4x weakness to water. Rhydon also comes packed with a huge base 130 Attack stat and two amazing STABs in Edgequake, so Rhydon has no trouble doing a shitton of damage in return after switching in. To be honest, the only reason i wouldnt consider Rhydon for an even higher rank is its dual 4x weaknesses to Water and Grass, which despite all the extra bulk are still very crippling to Rhydon. Overall Rhydon is an absolute beast of a Pokemon and even with his Watery achilles heel, it would be a crime to put him below top B rank imo. (also rhydon is manly)
EDIT: Articuno, Torterra, and Murkrow have been added to untested!
IMO Rhydon should be low A-Rank, but I have a different matter to discuss.
I might get a lot of disagreement here, but I would like to nominate Archeops for D-Rank. As an attacker, I think that Archeops is outclassed by Areodactyl, who has better speed, slightly better bulk and a useful ability. I know that archeops has roost, but it just doesn't have the bulk to take a hit while it recovers. Strong priority users like medicham, feraligatr and kabutops can easily take it out. The arcrobatics set is all fine and good until you realize that archeops can't boost its power with life orb. IMO archeops is D-rank material, unless somebody explains some major perks archeops has.
Noob Question: Why is magneton a C-Rank pokemon?