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Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

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    "C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in RU. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."

    I would argue that Golem fits under this category, facing lots of competition. I don't think it belongs in D rank because it can run an effective lead set in RU.
  2. Celever

    Celever

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    Seconding this, Golem pretty much is exactly what C tier is. I would say mid C tier, for later on.
  3. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    Ok, after using him for a while about a month ago and starting to test him out a bit more recently, i'd like to nominate Shiftry for low B rank. While Shiftry might seem to be outclassed by Absol at first glance because of the latters higher Attack stat, Shiftry has quite a few perks that help it stand out from the competition. For one thing, Shiftry comes equipped with a secondary Grass-typing that brings quite a bit to the table. It provides multiple resistances to common types that Absol could only dream of having such as Electric, Grass, Water, and Ground, making it much easier for Shiftry to switch in and/or set up a Swords Dance. The Grass STAB helps Shiftry out offensively as well, making it much easier for him to get past threats such as Quagsire, Poliwrath, Feraligatr, and Rhydon among other things. Shiftry also has a significant amount of bulk over Absol due to its much higher base 90 HP stat, making it much easier for Shiftry to grab a Swords Dance. Shiftry also has access to Chlorophyll, making it a viable and effective option on sun teams. All in all, my experience with Shiftry has been pretty positive, and i think that placing him in low B rank is reasonable, but if people disagree with placing him that high, i could also see him being placed in top C rank.

    Oh yeah, i made a post in the undiscovered threats thread about Shiftry just about a month ago, so if you want some more information on Shiftry and what it can do, heres a link to my post: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4588994&postcount=32

    I'd also like to let you all know that i've moved Kangaskhan up to top B rank, i'm a little shaky on putting her in low A rank at the moment, but from my experience with her i think she deserves at least top B for sure.
  4. ss234

    ss234 bop.

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    I'm going to propose moving Snover up to low A.

    Ok everyone knows that snover is a pretty terrible mon, and fails at doing anything more than weakening a few hail counters with blizzard / ice shard unless you're facing someone terrible. However, hail is in my opinion such a powerful playstyle at the moment(even broken possibly), meaning although that it is a bad pokemon, the support it gives is huge, and allows a large number of pokes to be much, much better than without hail. The hail it brings creates more residual damage, and makes blizzard's 100% accurate, and gives healing to pokemon with the ability ice body. This makes pokemon such as rotom-frost, glaceon and walrein much more difficult to deal with, and the extra residual damage helps a lot in defensively based teams, as the opponent can't regain health from leftovers unless it is clefable or cryogonal. Although this may not seem like much, hail makes wall-breaking much more easy, due to the residual damage, and even without a speed boost like with other weathers, scarf glaceon, scarf rotom-f and scarf walrein become much harder to wall thanks to the large boost to their STAB's that hail provides(or much greater accuracy of STAB in rotom-f's case).I'd liken it to Ninetales in OU, in that although it is a terrible pokemon, the support it gives is so huge it is worthy of A rank imo. Idk whether to put it in high, mid or low, but I'd be happy to put in in low, as Snover is not a pokemon you can just slap onto a team, but the support it gives for fellow hail abusers and the residual damage is too huge to keep it in B rank.
  5. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    For now I think low B-Rank seems suitable for Shiftry. Grass-typing is cool, and it's a strong sun abuser who is about as good as Sawsbuck on sun teams as a physical attacker. SD+Sucker Punch is pretty deadly, as we have seen with Pokemon such as Absol and in UU's case, Bisharp. Grass STAB is useful to smash Poliwrath and Quagsire and the likes. Other than that, Molk pretty much explained everything about Shiftry. Low B-Rank seems right.

    Regarding Snover, I'm torn. Snover is fairly mediocre but hail support is always nice, especially when the king and queen of RU, Slowking and Nidoqueen (lol) can spam mighty Blizzards well, not to mention Escavalier the mighty knight of Pokemon doesn't mind hail damage and can spam Megahorns all day. Stallrein becomes the bitch to face it is, with the residual damage being really helpful! Glaceon and Rotom-F are great BlizzSpammers, as are Jynx and Cryo. But the thing is SR weakness shared among hail Pokemon is pretty bad, and Snover is a pretty big liability outside of hail. I dunno really, I could see Snover in either Top B or Low A.
    (Lol at all the medieval time references I made.

    I second Golem; it's a decent SR lead who has great EdgeQuake coverage. It is outclassed by Rhydon, but being outclassed warrants Rank C.

    By the way, after using some stuff on the ladder a few days ago, I think Sawk could make it to at least C-Rank on the list. Sawk's a pretty good cleaner with STAB Close Combat, and his CC is pretty strong and makes it no pushover. Scarf Sawk is a pretty solid cleaner and pretty much murders Scarf Glaceon and Walrein, which is a nice plus. CB could make a strong wallbreaker too I guess. He's bulkier physically than both Gallade and Hitmonlee, which is nice. Not to mention, unlike Hitmonlee, Sawk can do multiple runs because of his lack of dependence on Unburden. Also, CC is perfectly accurate, which is cool too. Mold Breaker is cool too 'cause it makes good work of Rotom with EQ. Of course though, Sawk does face a lot of competition from Pokemon such as Gallade, Hitmonlee, and Medicham. Still though, Sawk can definitely work under the right conditions and can run effective Choice sets. I think that warrants him at least C-Rank.

    EDIT: Oh and by the way I think Throh deserves C-Rank as well; it's decent BU user who can shuffle teams with Circle Throw, which can rack up hazard damage. Throh is really bulky too and is really hard to KO. RestTalk is decent recovery and activates Guts too, so BUGuts boosted Circle Throw, if called by Sleep Talk, can hit pretty hard.
  6. Magcargo

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    I propose moving rhydon up to low A-Rank. Rhydon is a very versatile mon can tank many hits with the eviolite. As you all know, with full investment, rhydon can tank CB medicham's Hi jump kick, CB Gallade's close combat, Zangoose's close combat ETC. Rhydon also has a nice 130 attack, meaning that even without investment, its going to hit hard. It also gets STAB on the EdgeQuake coverage, a combo that only a few pokemon resist. Its very threatening to the dominate normal types, whose STABs do little damage to the Rhino. On the offensive side of thing, CB rhydon can 2HKO the entire metagame with some entry hazards. Here are some calcs.

    Show Hide
    Results Log Clear252Atk Choice Band Reckless Rhydon (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Sturdy Steelix (+Def): 66% - 77% (234 - 276 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    Delete252Atk Choice Band Reckless Rhydon (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Dusknoir (+Def): 53% - 63% (157 - 186 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Reckless Rhydon (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Lightningrod Rhydon (+Def): 55% - 65% (228 - 270 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    Delete252Atk Choice Band Reckless Rhydon (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Tangrowth (+Def): 65% - 77% (266 - 314 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    Delete252Atk Choice Band Reckless Rhydon (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252HP/252Def Levitate Uxie (+Def): 73% - 86% (260 - 306 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Reckless Rhydon (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252HP/252Def Sturdy Crustle (+Def): 96% - 99% (332 - 343 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Choice Band Reckless Rhydon (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/252Def Water Absorb Poliwrath (+Def): 52% - 61% (201 - 237 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO
    As you can see, Rhydon has no trouble destroying the RU metagame with its attacks. Rhydon has its flaws, but with proper support, they can be migated. Rhydon is an amazing pokemon and at the very least deservs low A-Rank.
  7. ss234

    ss234 bop.

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    A Rank:Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the RU metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.

    I don't think that rhydon fits the definition for A rank tbh. Although it is a pretty great pokemon, rhydon does have very significant flaws, such as being 4x weak to grass and water type moves, which are very common in ru, and being really quite slow. This makes checking rhydon incredibly easy(unless you're against the rock polish set), but even then most scarfers can deal with rpolish rhydon quite comfortably. Because of these crippling flaws, rhydon does need quite a lot of support, which again makes it more of a B rank pokemon for me. Also, rhydon can't do everything at once i.e. it can't wallbreak with ease and have the bulk to tank CB medicham HJK.

    Overall, Rhydon is a pretty great pokemon, but has pretty huge flaws that stop it from being A rank imo.

    Also full support for Shiftry in low B. That typing is really really good in ru, and despite its poor bulk it can counter non-fire blast slowking, qwilfish and also allows it to take weak volt switches from the likes of manectric and rotom-c. Seed Bomb + Nature Power + Sucker Punch gives it excellent coverage, enough to hit the vast majority of the tier for good damage, as well as hitting most of ru's phyiscal walls for super-effective damage, and thanks to Sucker Punch can revenge kill weakened threats, though its not nearly as powerful as Absol's sucker punch so the opponent will need to be weakened for sucker punch to 1HKO. The only issue with Shiftry is that its not amazingly powerful or amazingly fast, and has trouble getting through bulkier threats such as Druddigon, Moltres and Escavalier as well as a lack of reliable dark STAB. Low B sounds like a great fit for shiftry imo.

    I'd also like to propose moving Alomomola up to low B rank. Alomomola is actually a really good pokemon, capable of walling threats such as absol, entei, emboar, hitmonlee and tauros with ease. It can also support its team with huge wishes, and thanks to regenerator is very difficult to wear down. Although Alomomola can be an easy switch in for most grass types and electric types, which does mean alomomola will need a teammate to take care of these types, which is why I don't think it should be a rank or even mid b rank. However, I think that alomomola's wish support and ability to wall a huge amount of physical attackers as well as restore its own HP with ease with regenerator means that I think mola should be a low B rank pokemon.
  8. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    Ok time to update this :), here are the updates i've done in the past few days

    I'll probably make a few more updates later today, which i'll either edit into this post or make a new post about if theres a significant amount of discussion.


    Also, I totally agree with moving Alomomola to low B rank atm, i've been using her quite a bit recently and she's an incredibly effective physical wall, able to wall the majority of the tier's physical attackers with little trouble, especially Entei and Emboar. She also has access to Wish, but not any ordinary Wish, Alomomola has the largest Wish available in the entire Metagame, being able to fully heal the majority of offensive Pokemon with just a single Wish, and healing bulkier teammates by about 60% or so of their hp on average. As Silvershadow234 mentioned, Alomomola still struggles with being a free switch in for threats such as Rotom-C, Sceptile, Lilligant, Roselia, Shiftry and Ferroseed, along with a bunch of other boosting sweepers/hazard setters, which makes me hesitant to put her anywhere above low B rank but this can be overcomed quite easily with appropriate team support from Pokemon such as Roselia and Druddigon, who beat most of the Pokemon Alomomola struggles with and appreciate the recovery mom fish provides with Wish. All in All, despite my previous dislike for Aloe, i genuinely think placing her in low B rank is reasonable, although if anyone has a solid argument for keeping her in C rank, feel free to post and i might reconsider.
  9. Celever

    Celever

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    Sorry guys, I'm just bumping this again since I think it has been missed. Just so you know.

    Similarly, I would like to add throh to D.
    Basically, it is poliwrath with worse stats. That is pretty much it.
  10. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    I'v used Throh a bit in the past, it's actually bulkier than Poliwrath with a higher attack to boot to make it's Circle Throws have a bit more sting. What make Poliwrath superior is it's typing and ability which allows it to effortlessly take on the many dangerous water types like Kabutops and Feraligatr then phazing the out to elminate any boosts while also using Scald to possibly burn something. Chesto rest Bulk Up is decent on Throh but I always found it outclassed by either Gallade as a pure Bulk Up user or by Poliwrath as a pure wall, I'd put it into D-Rank probably High D since it needs a rank and is a surprisingly resilient tank who doesn't suffer the same Electric and Grass weakness that Poliwrath has.
  11. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    Ok, gonna make a mini update here. Just going to let everyone know that due to the recent tier shifts i've removed Nidoqueen entirely from the list. She moved back up to UU today as a result of usage and she's no longer a factor in RU, which may or may not affect the ranks in other ways as well!

    I'll probably be making a full update later
  12. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Ahem, yay, Queen's gone. Anyways, gonna make some proposals.

    Sawk deserves C-Rank, it's a pretty good offensive Fighting-type who can work really well in RU, especially in conjunction with Absol, and hits pretty hard. It faces a lot of competition though, making it a C-Rank Pokemon.

    Throh, I could see in either Low C or High D simply because it is really bulky, can bulk Up and such, and is a good shuffler. Faces competition from Wrath though, so C or D seems right.

    Mola for Low B I support. SS and Molk explained it all.

    Mesprit is definitely Top B material when it all comes down to it. She has great stats across the board and her amazing movepool, with both offensive and supportive options, is a big plus for her too. Her typing isn't too bad offensively and she even has the awesome BoltBeam coverage. Offensive CM is pretty strong and she has enough bulk and speed to pull it off effectively. Her support movepool is nice too, with SR, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, and Trick Room. She does face competition from Uxie but she still does it pretty well. Her 105 SpA and 80 Speed ensure she can make good use of Scarf and Specs too, so yeah. Plus, 105 Attack even allows her to run a surprising CB set, which is just really good because of the surprise factor. I think she has enough positive points to warrant Top B at the least.

    Oh and also she gets this amazing move known as Healing Wish. That's pretty good too.

    Bouffalant is Top B imo as well. He has an awesome ability in Sap Sipper, which makes him a solid check to Sceptile and it hard counters Lilligant and the other Grasses. Sub is good as most grasses are helpless and Bouff can hit really hard. CB+1 Head Charge can also really hurt and his bulk helps in his job too. He's slow, but he's easily one of the best of the B-Rankers.

    Scolipede is Mid B imo. He's an awesome offensive spiker, he's got an excellent Speed tier, which allows him to get up Spikes quickly and reliably. He has a solid 90 Attack and a great STAB in Megahorn to complement that, and when you get to Swarm Level, especially with a Sash, he hits really hard. QuakeSlide coverage is also a plus for the mega centipede, because as a result he's pretty difficult to wall. Another thing is that Scoli also has SD, so if he gets that boost, he destroys the hell outta everything. Solid Mid B.

    Swellow should probably be Low B because while undeniably powerful and fast, he's really easy to wear down. Swellow has a hard time lasting long because he's SR weak and burn+BB Recoil (if you need to click it) will take its toll. Swellow also has problems with Steelix and Rhydon, so Magneton support is needed. Still though, Swellow wrecks shop, and that warrants low B.

    As of now I honestly think Dusknoir should be moved to E-Rank--Honestly, I think it's just that bad. It has no recovery, so it's really easy to wear down. To compound this, Dusknoir's low HP stat makes it more prone to 2HKO's, so it will get worn down really easily. Furthermore, Dusknoir has 4MSS; Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split are absolutely necessary if Dusknoir wants to accomplish anything, as otherwise it is complete setup fodder. Dusknoir's best bet is to usually burn something, which is a joke. Dusknoir has weak STAB and pretty much no strong moves. Pain Split can easily be played around by using a Sub or being severely weakened. I honestly think it's just as bad as, if not worse, than Munchlax.
  13. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    You posted this exact same nomination one week ago... I still disagree with this as well.

    Anyway, Sawk is cool and all, but I think it is almost completely outclassed by Gallade. Both have the same Attack and Close Combat, but...

    Sawk's Advantages
    1. Mold Breaker is cool
    2. Outspeeds Magmortar and avoids speed ties.
    3. Doesn't get butchered by Sucker Punch.

    Gallade's Advantages
    1. Has Swords Dance
    2. Has Priority (Which, if you are smart, can get past Absol's Sucker Punch and then makes Sawk even less useful compared to Gallade) 3. It has a Secondary STAB option in Psychic
    4. It can use Bulk Up as well
    5. Can go the Bulky Route easily with Drain Punch
    6. Can defeat Ghosts and Psychic-types easier thanks to Night Slash.
    7. Can defeat Slowking easier thanks to Leaf Blade (a lot stronger than Thunderpunch)
    8. Far, far, far more unpredictable.

    Sawk looks pretty D-Rank to me. The fact that it isn't deemed worthy of an analysis at the moment should say quite a bit. I've used it before, and it seemed like a one-dimensional Gallade that only beat Absol easier. Throh is rather similar - Poliwrath's typing makes it better 90% of the time compared to Throh, with the former only having an advantage in bulk (considering Poliwrath's myraid of resistances, this gets overshadowed really fast). "Faces competition" is a huge understatement. I am in doubt that the two even need to be on here in the first place.
  14. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    This is actually something I'd been meaning to address recently; people need to stop nominating stuff for the sake of nominating it. Not every Pokemon in RU and NU needs to be on here. If you're nominating a NU mon for D-rank, why bother? Focus your energies on tiering the RU mons that still need to be placed.THere's no need to tell someone, "this NU mon is D-rank, so you shouldn't be using it." The usage stats do that for us.
  15. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    Yeah i'm going to agree with Texas here, i've been thinking the untested list is starting to get a bit overcrowded (a lot of that is my fault :s). I'd really like to focus on the Pokemon that are already on the list for now, especially now that queen leaving has shifted the metagame a bit and might make previously placed Pokemon more or less viable. Even after we get all those mons placed in appropriate ranks, i'd like to focus on the untested mons we already have now, trying to place as many as possible before we move on to new possible undiscovered threats. If you think something not listed here has potential in RU, feel welcome to post it either in the np thread or in the the undiscovered threats discussion. New underrated threats are cool and all, but i'd like to focus on the top/mid/low for existing ranks for now :>.

    Btw, after i make my next update, i'll be allowing discussion on the top/mid/low placements of C rank!
  16. Magcargo

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    • [​IMG] Bouffalant Top B-Rank Bouffalant is definetly one underrated threat. Bouflant has an amazing base 110 attack , which can be further boosted with swords dance, and decent 95/95/95 defense, meaning that its pretty bulky. Sap sipper is an amazing trait since it not only gives it a grass immunity, but a free attack boost. While his base 55 speed and a weakness to fighting often hold him back, with proper support, boufflant's flaws can be remedied.
    • [​IMG] Swellow Low B-Rank Swellow has many thing going for it. It has two powerful STAB moves in facade and bravebird, the ability to scout with U-Turn, guts and an amazing base 125 speed. However, it has many thchings against it as well. Limited coverage options and low defenses means that its going to fall to every steel and rock type in the tier. Swellow absolutely needs a fighting type to dispose the pokemon. Rhydon in particular can setup rock polishes as swellow switches out and sweep the foes team. Swellow needs too much support to be mid-top B-rank.
    BTW, I feel that magneton is too good for C-Rank and think that it deserves low B-rank. Specially defensive magneton is good at checking hail teams, while substitute magneton is good at setting up charge beams against klinklang.
    EDIT: Since munchlax is NU, it and the E-Rank should be removed entirely.
  17. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    k, going to make some updates today :>.

    So here are the changes i've made this time around, if you disagree with a recently made change be sure to post an argument on why i misplaced the Pokemon and where it should be moved instead!

    As i mentioned before i wont be moving any Pokemon in untested until we're a bit more finished placing the Pokemon that are currently ranked, but in my opinion Throh and Sawk are going to end up somewhere around Mid/Low C rank and/or D rank. They really arent terrible Pokemon in and of themselves but they recieve a lot of competition from the Fighting-types already in the tier such as Gallade, Poliwrath, Primeape, etc, making them not as good in the long run. Out of the two i'm actually the most interested in throh, because even though it doesnt share Poliwrath's great typing, the difference between throh's bulk and wrath's bulk is pretty significant: 90/95/90 is nothing compared to 120/85/85. But even with that, I'd still place throh somewhere in like mid to low C rank at most :/.

    EDIT: By the way, I'm now allowing discussion on the top/mid/low placement of C rank as well, so if you have any thoughts on that feel free to post!
  18. Celever

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    I would like to propose galvantula to move up to top B or EVEN low A!

    Galvantula used to be able to sweep very well, but, with the amount of teams nidoqueen was on, it's sweep would get stopped pretty reliably thanks to nidoqueen resisting and being immune to it's two STABs, and it's main coverage move. People would have to spare a slot for hidden power water just to cover the nasty queen, which, using a popular specs set (which imo is the best, lo doesn't help to its overall frailty as is) would require it to switch.

    However now nidoqueen has (finally) gone over to UU, letting galvantula able to shoot out both of its two STABs with much less worry as there are so few less pokemon in the tier that could stop a sweep now, and the ones that can are so less used, I think that galvantula should be able to go up a tier or two.
  19. Magcargo

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    What about moving magneton up to low B-Rank and removing munchlax because it is NU? Magneton has become much better with the lose of queen, as he is now a good counter to hail teams (watch out for HP ground) and certain steel types like klinklang. his STAB aren't too shabby either as they land a solid hit on ice types and water types. All in all, magneton is a decent pokemon and should be low B-rank IMO.
  20. Punchshroom

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    So Nidoqueen moving up definitely helped Camerupt as that's one less threat to worry about, and most Electric-types and Bug-types have more freedom in spamming their STAB moves...or so they think. Still proving to be a good stop to offensive threats such as Mow-tom, Manectric, Magmortar, Accelgor, Liligant (Quiver Dances can be undone with Roar, provided Sleep Clause is activated), Galvantula, Eelektross, Magneton, Typhlosion, special Sceptile and Durant (both to an extent)....while holding its own against a number of defensive threats such as Steelix, Uxie, Tangrowth, Escavalier, Cryogonal, Amoonguss, Ferroseed, any Rotom, SubRoost Moltres, Spiritomb or most Hail teams....all with a simple moveset of the helpful Stealth Rock, Roar, and Lava Plume for support and Earth Power for extra coverage.

    Its sheer vulnerability to virtually any Water-type cannot place it any higher than C in my opinion, but as Camerupt faces little competition in its role as a special sponge able to stop the aforementioned threats, low-B is probably the best I'd give it (and that's being generous).
  21. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I got an opinion on only a few of the C-Rankers. I may post more, I may not...

    [​IMG] Archeops I think should be Top C. This may seem strange because it is weak to Stealth Rock and has a really bad ability, but the sheer power of Acrobatics is astounding. This, combined with a high speed, makes the initial hit very difficult to switch into, because Flying is not commonly resisted and it outspeeds most of the metagame as well. It also has a pretty good movepool, with moves such as Stone Edge, Earth Power (screw Steelix), and even Head Smash to be a nuke. Requires some support and can be hit-or-miss at times but it is a solid Top C-Rank Pokemon.
    [​IMG] Quagsire I think should be Top C as well. It is a pretty cool Pokemon thanks to Unaware, Scald, its typing, and instant Recovery. That's really about it, to be honest, its a fairly simple Pokemon and it performs alright against set-up sweepers. There are some things which run HP Grass mainly to take it (and Rhydon) out, so in general, I think it is a decent bulky water in RU, and it isn't destroyed by Pokemon that may randomly run stuff like Swords Dance to get past their counters. Seems alright in Top C to me.
    [​IMG] Electivire seems Mid C to me. Its often berated, and for a good reason, but there are so many moves that this thing can learn to hit you with - you aren't exactly safe no matter what you have because of all that coverage. It is prone to being worn down fairly quickly, but it can break common cores with some entry hazards, although opponents switching also kinda ruins its chances a bit. It can get walled fairly easily by things such as Uxie, but it is good at cleaning up teams after a Motor Drive boost or breaking down walls with the right prediction (though that prediction can be tough)
    [​IMG] Primeape is fairly iffy but seems Mid C. Vital Spirit and its Speed are the only true advantages of Primeape, the former of which is important but not all that great on Primeape, and the Speed thing is also eh because between Medicham and Primeape, there isn't much. Good momentum grabber with U-Turn, and it still hits hrd enough with Close Combat, however, which I guess makes it alright for Mid C, although Low wouldn't be unrealistic.
    [​IMG] Whimsicott feels Low C to me. It has a several interesting niches, but it lacks the offensive force needed to actually scare anything. Priority Stun Spore is nice, and it can do a bit to help out with momentum, but there are a lot of things running around that really don't care about it. It can support teams in a lot of ways thanks to Prankster, but alone it is not really doing much to anything. Every time I face one it tends to be a slight annoyance or something that boosts the rest of the team a sight bit, but it lacks the needed offense and, more importantly, defense.
    [​IMG] Skuntank seems Low C to me. Spiritomb, Absol, and Drapion give it a ton of competition, enough to make me question why you would use it. As for trapping Ghosts, it faces a lot of competition and there is also a lot of need not to bother with it because using Rapid Spin is so easy in RU with Kabutops and Cryogonal being the beasts they are. I guess it has Drapion's Typing with Sucker Punch and... Explosion and Fire Blast? No boosting moves, being somewhat frail, makes it seem outclassed.

    EDIT: Would it be unrealistic to think that all the unranked B-Rank Poemon deserve Low B? A lot of them were hurt by Nidoqueen leaving, and the other two Spikers are OK but not great.
  22. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    I'm not so sure on moving magneton to low B rank yet, even though its undeniably a cool Pokemon in this metagame, i think its still sorta niche, being mainly limited to trapping eliminating certain Steel-types for its teammates (although i'm aware that Magneton can use Analytic effecively as well, which is one of the reasons i've considered bumping it up to low B rank to go along with your proposal). but its something i'm considering doing next time i update the ranks for sure, at this point even if i decide against moving Magneton up to low B rank, its pretty much guarenteed a spot in top C rank regardless, imo.

    Also i'm probably going to wait a little bit on Munchlax just in case its usage rises up next month, but if its usage doesn't rise then i'll remove him and the E rank asap (unless Dusknoir ends up in E rank).

    @Swamp-Rocket, it was kinda both, i seriously think there are some silly gimmicks that might be good enough to deserve D rank such as level 1 pineco and solosis in the hail, but i added them mainly as jokes anyway, i'll remove them
  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest It's Showtime! Are you ready?
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    Hey, I'll discuss then for some Top, Mid, and Low C-Rankers!

    Top:

    Archeops, Charizard, Haunter, Quagsire, Vanilluxe

    [​IMG] Archeops is extremely deadly, as Flying Gem 140 Attack Acrobatics is extremely brutal. Stone Edge and EQ with that high Attack are absurd, and its solid 112 Special Attack allow it to pummel Steelix with Heat Wave or Rhydon with Earth Power. It is very frail and high maintenance, but otherwise has the potential to be a deadly Pokemon.

    [​IMG] Charizard is a powerful sun sweeper, as STAB Fire Blast boosted by Sun and Solar Power is a pain and extremely hard to endure if your name isn't Slowking. Charizard can destroy whole teams with relative ease if given the chance, and also has an admirable Speed tier to complement his prowess. 4x weakness to SR sucks and he's really, really easy to wear down, but Charizard is still a lethal Pokemon.

    [​IMG] Haunter is actually pretty good, with a good Speed tier (faster than any Ghost-type viable for use in RU, for the record), and has a solid 115 Special Attack to use some pretty strong attacks with. Haunter is really frail though so High C it is.

    [​IMG] Quagsire is actually pretty good in RU tbh. Unaware is a great ability and allows it to deal with SD Absol and Gallade, as well as HC Durant and friends. His typing is pretty damn good to check Entei as well, so that's a plus. Nonetheless, Quagsire is a good asset to teams if you do happen to use him, but he's outclassed by Poliwrath so thus a Top C-Ranker.

    [​IMG] Vanilluxe is pretty lethal with STAB Blizzard to abuse in hail, and it has some perks, such as a solid Speed tier to get at Absol while it has Autotomize to be really fast and spam mighty Blizzards. Faces really stiff competition from Glaceon and Rotom-F though and has lacking coverage, but it's good enough for Top C.

    Mid:

    Altaria, Drifblim, Electivire, Hariyama, Linoone, Primeape, Swoobat, Victreebel, Volbeat, Whimsicott

    [​IMG] Altaria is a pretty good asset to defensive teams, and it has a solid Special Defense to be an okay check to Moltres and Sceptile (and I guess Slowking as well). Altaria is a decent special wall who also is a good cleric, and SpecsTaria is unique and can hit decently hard (Fuck Druddigon). Nonetheless, I think Altaria is a good asset to defensive teams as well as a decent Specs user and should be at least Mid C-Rank.

    [​IMG] Drifblim is a solid Acrobatics user and can do decently well; and supports decently with D-Bond and can be an alright weather supporter. Drifblim can also use CM decently, although CMprit is better, Blim is pretty decent to use Shadow Ball and HP Fighting and can use Unburden to be a fast and powerful sweeper. That's about all there is to Drifblim.

    [​IMG] Electivire gets a bad rap. It really does. Ever since his inception in DPP OU, this thing has always been mocked for one thing: He hits 13 of the 17 types super effectively, but despite that, he always misses out on KO's. That said, Electivire has a solid niche in RU as one of few viable mixed attackers in the tier. Its missing out on KO's can be patched up by layers of Spikes, and we have no shortage of Spikers either: we have many ranging from the speedy Scolipede to the bulky Roselia, so Electivire is always free to be paired with any Spiker. With Spikes support, a simple set of Wild Charge, Flamethrower, EQ, and HP Grass or Ice Punch can break down common cores like TanKing, SteelKing, or even EscavKing, (damn so many cores involve Slowking). Motor Drive is pretty cool so if you come in on a T-Wave from Slowking / Uxie, you're pretty much up for a sweeping condition. Nonetheless, while Electivire isn't that good, he's decent with the proper support (which he needs a lot of, perfect for C-Rank), so Mid C it is.

    [​IMG] Hariyama is brutal, especially in Trick Room, as Guts CC is nothing to be trifled with. Priority Bullet Punch and Stone Edge make it pretty deadly as well, so this thing can punch some pretty big holes in teams. Hariyama is also a decent special wall with Force Palm, Whirlwind, and RestTalk, but eh. Anyways, solid Mid C imo.

    [​IMG] Linoone is pretty deadly, with Belly Drum E-Speed wrecking shop. Linoone has enough coverage to just destroy everything, and Shadow Claw shits on Rotom and Golurk while Seed Bomb handles Quagsire, Poliwrath, and Rhydon. It's really frail though so it needs Memento support, but either way it's a mid C because it wrecks shop.

    [​IMG] Primeape is an okay Pokemon, with a usable Speed tier and U-turn allowing it to be of enough use in RU. It has a decently strong Close Combat while Punishment can deal with random CMprits and SD Gallades, and that's about it. Outside of that, Primeape is pretty meh, though it's an okay Pokemon who can work.

    [​IMG] Swoobat is pretty devastating with its pseudo Nasty Plot and Stored Power making it a force to be reckoned with, as nothing can really survive and some special attackers may struggle to get past it afterwards. It's really powerful after a boost and it can really devastate teams with ease. It's really frail though and it's rather weak before a boost, so it needs some support to work well.

    [​IMG] Victreebel is an amazing sun sweeper, as Growth boosted Leaf Blade and Sludge Bomb really wreck the fuck outta everything. It can shit on TanKing and some other cores and nothing can really survive its onslaught. Weather Ball is really nice too. Victreebel is also resistant to common priority such as Mach Punch and Aqua jet, so despite its fraility it can live weaker moves. Outside of sun though it's pretty worthless and frail, so it needs sun support to be the devastating sweeper it is.

    Low:

    Gabite, Golem, Sandslash, Skuntank

    [​IMG] Gabite has nice STAB coverage, and its decent enough to work in RU if Druddigon isn't your cup of tea. He has a nice CB set and Outrage+EQ is fine coverage making Gabite hard to wall. That said, it's got a lot of competition from Fraxure and Druddigon, making it a lower C-Ranker.

    [​IMG] Golem is okay, as it is an effective lead who can reliably set up Stealth Rock, and guarantees that thans to Sturdy, unless it is Cinccino who is ready to ruin your day. It has fine STAB coverage too and priority in Sucker Punch, so it can work. Outclassed by Rhydon though.

    [​IMG] Sandslash, a Pokemon who I previously attempted to nominate for E-Rank, is a decent spinner. SD+Lum Sandslash is a fine spinner who can beat Spiritomb and Rotom, while it has enough physical bulk to pull off a spin. Sandslash can also kill some opponents here and there such as Drapion and Electivire. it's not that good, but it can work as a spinner if you really need it.

    [​IMG] Skuntank can definitely work in RU, but Absol, Drapion, and Spiritomb are simply better. Skuntank has Sucker Punch, Aftermath, and Fire Blast, but that's about it.

    Those are just my initial thoughts on some of the C-Rankers.

    Anyways, I think these are appropriate for the remaining B-Rankers:

    Top:
    [​IMG] Mesprit is really versatile and has a nice balance of stats to make good use out of her amazing movepool. She's a case of a Pokemon that you don't know what she's gonna do 'til it's too late. She does fucking everything, from Offensive CM to Support to CB. Healing Wish is good too and makes her a good asset to teams that need it. Nonetheless, Mesprit does her jobs extremely well and is pretty unpredictable.

    Mid:
    [​IMG] Gardevoir is pretty strong and makes for a fine special attacker. Its 125 SpA and solid movepool are pretty good, and Trace allows it to check a lot of things like Lanturn, Magneton, and a lot of others. LO Gard is strong and works really well. Also, it's a decent cleric / Wish supporter. That's about all there is to Gardy.

    [​IMG] Roselia is one of the best bulky Spikers around, with her only competition being Qwilfish. While the spiky puffer shines on teams in need of a check to things like Escavalier, Entei, and Emboar, Roselia excels on those in need of an answer to threats such as Sceptile, Galvantula, and Omastar. Roselia is a great special wall who can take on the aforementioned threats, and she sets up Spikes very reliably. Roselia is no sitting duck either; a solid 100 Special Attack with good STAB's in Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb make her even better to take on those threats. Roselia has some other support options as well, so she can always be a good team supporter if needed. While she does have some flaws such as low Defense and a rival in Amoonguss, her perks more than outshine that, making her suitable for Mid B.

    [​IMG] Scolipede is soooo good in this metagame, the fact that it dropped to NU is a joke and a traversity. Scolipede is an amazing Spiker, he has an awesome Speed tier that not many can match, and he can set up Spikes very reliably for offensive teams. If he gets to Sash level, a Swarm powered Megahorn is amazing an can wreck. He even gets QuakeSlide coverage, making him incredibly difficult to wall. With SD and 90 Attack, he can use that incredible coverage and be a vicious sweeper as well if you're not using him as a Spiker; he can wreck whole teams to pieces using his power, coverage, and speed. He's got a bit of competition, but Scolipede has enough perks and he's so damn solid he is good in Mid B.

    [​IMG] Seismitoad is an excellent rain sweeper, and he has enough power to leave his mark. While he doesn't have Ice Beam, Sludge Wave and Earth Power provide solid coverage to get at a lot of things. He has an immunity to Electric, so he makes a great asset to rain teams to patch up the Electric weakness they often have. He's also a usable defensive pivot with Water Absorb, and is a decent user of SR, so that's a plus. Pretty solid Mid B imo.

    Low:
    [​IMG] I think Magneton is good enough for a low B imo. He's a solid Steel trapper and SpecsMagneton is a solid hard hitter who not only reliably traps Steels, but also checks Absol, Kabutops, Feraligatr, and more. He has a great defensive typing so he can take a couple of hits, and ANALYTIC is a cool niche as well. SpD Magneton is cool as well, as is Scarf, but overall I think Magneton is good enough to get into Low B imo.

    Please move Dusknoir to E-Rank; it can't even do its job well and it has no reason to be used over any Ghost-type available in the tier.
  24. Level 51

    Level 51 and if you ever get back to hackensack, i'll be here for you
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    In my opinion Duosion might deserve either Low C rank or maybe D rank. With Hail Support, it can do a fun entrails set which gets rid of common bulky bastions like Uxie, Escavalier and maybe sometimes even Clefable, Miltank, Slowking and Sigilyph if the opponent runs sets without healing or mistimes healing.

    It can also function outside Hail, with the ability to clean up after stuff like Escavalier is gone. Combining both functions works pretty well too n_n

    I would write more but I have no time oops >_>
  25. ss234

    ss234 bop.

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    Altaria-I think that Altaria is a solid High C. With specs, Altaria's dmeteor hits like a truck, smashing through almost everything bar the strongest special walls, and hammering even resists hard(such as durant and aggron-both 2HKO'd by specs dmeteor). With just fire blast and draco meteor alone, altaria gets neutral coverage on everything in the tier. Altaria even has pretty good bulk and a good defensive typing, allowing it to check pokes such as Magmortar and Sceptile without HP Ice. However, Altaria does have issues-it is sr weak, relatively slow and has to rely on specs and a move that decreases its special attack by two stages if it want to hit hard. High C rank sounds good for altaria therefore IMO.

    Haunter-Haunter is another poke that I think deserves high C rank. Despite having the defences of tissue paper, Haunter has three excellent immunities to fighting, normal and ground, all of which are very common types in RU. Haunter also 4x resists bug, which is a relatively common type as well. This means that although haunter does have terrible defences, it can still check a large number of pokemon in the tier thanks to its typing, and it is able to set-up a Substitute on lots of pokes in the tier. Haunter also has a great special attack stat, as well as relatively good coverage to back it up-you get neutral coverage on everything in the tier with shadow ball / sludge bomb / HP ground iirc. 95 speed is also pretty good in RU, outspeeding moltres, rotom, lilligant and others. Although haunter faces quite a lot of competition with rotom, due to their similar typings and rotom's better bulk, and haunter's general fragility, Haunter's high special attack, great set of immunities and good speed tier put it as a solid High C for me.

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