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Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Molk

    Molk Assault Vest Whimsicott ^_^
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    out of all of these proposed changes, here are the ones that happened

    1) Alomomola DOWN from C rank to D rank

    2) Jynx UP from B rank to A rank

    3) Manectric UP from B rank to A rank

    Lanturn was not moved up due to several oppositions, you are still free to post your opinion on it, though!
  2. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    I'm going to propose Whimsicott to be moved up from C Rank to A Rank (although B Rank is also fine with me; her advantages aren't so prevalent that I am going to endlessly argue A Rank the whole thread).

    It is one of very few Pranksters in RU (this carves out a key niche). It has the support movepool to make use of the ability. No, just because it has priority SubSeed does not mean that is perfect (in fact, priority SubSeed being ineffective is a flaw preventing her from being S Rank herself; two of the S Rank Pokemon do not care about SubSeed, and other S Rank Pokes can get past Whimsi, thus why they're S Rank). However, one should not gravely underestimate Whimsicott (I actually did back when it was OU and paid for it dearly with defeats at her hands in that tier and Ubers; I actually decided to use her because I lost to her over and over).

    Outside of SubSeed, though, her movepool is really good. Priority Taunt shuts down many Stealth Rock setters. Priority Stun Spore guarantees paralysis to anything that isn't a Sap Sipper. Encore laughs at set-up sweepers and most walls. It has Memento as well, which is really effective alongside a Pursuit trapper. Priority Toxic, while not great, is also noteworthy as it allows Whimsicott to cripple the Sap Sippers. Outside of that, though, it can support with Sunny Day and Tailwind (although not Rain Dance; again, Whimsi is A Rank tops because of this and more). Oh, I forgot she also can use Switcheroo, acting as a de facto Trick lead if one chose to.

    To make Whimsicott not Taunt bait, all one has to do is put U-turn in her movepool. This also makes her a really effective scout. One could also put Hurricane in her movepool, but another flaw is that she doesn't have the Special Attack for this to not be risky.

    Another thing preventing Whimsicott from being S Rank, imo, is her average bulk. Other Grassers who use SubSeed, such as Tangrowth, do the job better because they are bulkier. Arguably, her lackluster bulk would keep her in B Rank tops, too, but she has a lot of advantages such she can transcend her frailness (as other support Pokemon have done themselves).
    Hollywood likes this.
  3. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Magneton & Hariyama deserve in C tier. D Tier implies that they are shitty, but slightly better than Metang lol. The fact that they these two are rated lower than Ferroseed is disgraceful!

    Don't forget Magneton shares the same base SpA as Moltres with the special moves to abuse them. It has base 70 Speed, too; just enough to be faster than Kabutops and Nidoqueen and O-2HKO with Tbolt and HP Ground, respectively. Not to mention it possesses a unique niche of trapping Steels, which is still useful in RU. Magneton is an auto-kill on Aggron, for instance. That annoying Ferroseed is no more. Magneton can shave off half of Steelix's health for physical sweepers to easily break past it. Magneton can get rid or soften up Escavalier so it wont be checking Grass or Psychic-types anymore, etc.

    No Fighting-type in RU does Trick Room sweeping better than Status Orb Hariyama - with Close Combat, Facade, Stone Edge, and Bullet Punch / Bulk Up / Ice Punch, there's very little the opponent can throw at Hariyama that can tank 2 hits from it. A good ole BU + 3 Atks at Lefties can also decently serve as an effective tank for RU teams.
  4. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    I agree with Pocket in both accounts, Hariyama and Magneton are useful pokemon for different reasons. Analytic Magneton or Trapper Magneton are decent options as far as things go, and there are not other pokemon that can easily replace Magneton it its niche. It has glaring weaknesses, but C tier includes other pokes with similar weaknesses.

    Hariyama is pretty bulky and does a decent room under Trick Room, nice coverage, priority and decent abilities.

    Regarding Lanturn... The jump from A to S is heavily dependant on how many good matchups you have against most of the metagame, Lanturn is pretty flexible and has great abilities, but it doesn't check most of the meta by itself. I think it belongs to A, but I can be swayed by a good argument.
  5. spuds4ever

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    Hariyama is actually still pretty good and I think will only get better with cofagrigus outta here. Nidoqueen is still a big issue for it though, and the whole fake-out+bullet punch thing is done better by medicham. C seems like a good place for it and likewise for magneton.

    I think the only definite change I would make at the moment which I didn't notice was qwilfish from B up to A. It is the best spiker out there IMO and all its support move options also gives it a good little bit of versitality too. Maybe mespirit up too, but I'll need to use it a bit more I think before I jump to a conclusion.

    Edit: Post no. 600
  6. Molk

    Molk Assault Vest Whimsicott ^_^
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    Okay! here are the proposed changes for today
    proposed changes:

    1) Whimsicott UP from C rank to B rank

    2) Magneton UP from D rank to C rank

    3) Hariyama UP from D rank to C rank


    Ill be honest, i really dont like magneton very much at all, i never really liked its evolution either tbh :/. My argument for magneton staying in D is that, while it DOES have a niche in trapping steel-type pokemon, quite a few RU steels can work around that quite easily. Steelix can just use Earthquake as magneton comes in and get a free kill off of it, Aggron can accomplish the same thing. Escavalier can actually 2hko magneton with megahorn and take an hp fire, lol. Magneton traps ferroseed and klinklang fine, but ferroseed can just simply continue setting hazards on magneton, essentially still accomplishing its goal. While klinklang isnt that great of a pokemon in this metagame anyway (only reason its C and not D is that it can still sweep decently well, it needs a ton of support, though. There arent that many steels in RU compared to say, OU in the first place actually. Making Magneton's niche less needed. I also feel that magenton isnt that great of a pokemon outside of magnet pull. Sure it has an Electric/Steel type, high special attack, and eviolite, but whenever ive tried using magnet pull magneton its below average speed, weaknesses to some of the most common attacking types in the tier (ground, fire, and fighting), and base 50 hp made it rather underwhelming if my opponent lacked anything i needed to trap. I tried analytic magneton and it was pretty cool, but it still suffered from some crippling flaws. Ill move magneton up to C is you guys really want it, but imo its niche is very, very specific, and from what ive seen, its rather hit or miss.

    Hariyama actually seems pretty nice now, i guess i just put it in D because all i see of it is bad ladder kids that leave hariyama in on a uxie thats obviously going to use psychic, TR hariyama might be pretty nice. The defensive set with thick fat doesnt seem bad either, ill move it up later today if there arent any objections.

    Also, any opinions on the untested pokemon?

    Btw, about pineco, does anyone think it might be worth C rank? or should i remove it altogether, the level 1 pain split set is 2 gud
  7. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Supporting Whimsicott, B Rank is appropriate for its abilities.
  8. /B/utterfree

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    I disagree with Magneton moving up to C Rank. As said, it's a counterpick Pokemon who doesn't really do much to the Pokes it wants to counter. It really only gets at Ferroseed reliably, whereas the other Steels can just outpredict and outwit the Magneton before it can do anything (Steelix and Aggron can laugh at it with Earthquake, again Escavalier can just 2HKO Magneton with ease, and Klinklang can set up on Magneton; among these, Magneton is still only reliable on Klinklang, and barely at that). Even with good SpA and Eviolite, Magneton is generally ineffective at what it wants to do; oftentimes it is a liability more than it is helpful even when it successfully does its niche, which is never (what, never? no, never! what, never? well, hardly EVERRRRRRRRR).

    EDIT: Remove Pineco altogether. I don't even know why I kept it when I originally had the thread. RU Viability should not be endorsing joke sets, and people promoting a joke set/joke Pokemon who did not belong in RU is exactly why I was enraged at RU three months ago.
  9. Bent1ey

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    If Steel-Trapping is not that useful there is also the Analytic route to downright deal heavy damage with special attacks, I'm aware this isn't exactly what Magneton sells the most, but his lack of speed and punching power makes it for an interesting Bolt-switcher.
  10. /B/utterfree

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    As much as I like Beeheeyem, Analytic isn't that good on him either. In fact, I'd argue Analytic to be somewhat of a liability, since in order for some match-ups to work you'd have to run a negative Speed nature and have 0 Speed IVs among other complications. In order for that not to suck, you'd have to be a Steel-type with Gyro Ball or Metal Burst, or a Trick Roomer (like Dusknoir or Slowking). And going last is much too risky for Magneton, as it will die in one blow to many hits anyway - on its evolved form, Magnezone, it is a bad gimmick in OU.


  11. Pocket

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    Butterfree, I'm not asking Magneton to move up to B or A tier. I'm proposing Magneton to move up to C tier where Pokemon that has some use in RU goes. Even with Eviolite, it wont enjoy taking strong hits from CB Escavalier, etc, but it can still survive a Megahorn with plenty of health to spare and Tbolt it, rendering Escavalier useless to check any Grass or Psychic mons. It's not hard to predict a Steelix switch-in and trap it with Magneton. You can use Magnet Rise and play mind games with Steelix if you want to. Removing Ferroseed is quite useful, since Kabutops and Cryogonal without HP Fire would have a hard time removing it. Being able to remove Aggron on a revenge-kill or on a predicted switch is pretty darn clutch, seeing how Aggron can switch in multiple times and start wrecking teams.

    Again, I'm not asking for Magneton to move up to the upper tiers. I'm suggesting that it move out of crap tier into "usable" tier.
  12. lars

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    Considering it's almost a sure kill on both Scizor and Ferrothorn who each are above 20% usage, its a gimmick that probably works more often then some "legit strategies".

    I will admit this isn't OU, and Magneton isn't that great here. Pretty much all the Steel types that Magneton want to trap are just as easily beaten by something else. As a default I would say that the niche of magnet pull deserves rank C, but I'm worried that there would be too much "creep" of ranking. For example, I think Hariyama is decent and I've used him a few times and liked it, but is he really as good or better than Medicham? On the spot I would have to say no.

    ______________________________________________________
    I'm a bit ify on this idea myself, but I really like the idea of this thread and the potential of its future use.

    Would a "soft" limit of ratios be beneficial for each rank?

    Something like 1:2:2.5:2.5: (now it's D and no one cares)
    for the rank in S:A:B:C:lower

    There are currently 8 in S and 24 in A so if we could move 2 more to S and then find 2 that are really not quite A rank, this would already fit to what we have.

    I think this might also contribute to discussion because now if you propose a move up or down, you have to propose something to fill it's place. Each rank now has more competition as well.

    they can be "soft" limits because if we discuss to change the number of members in S, then the other ranks can increase in size too.

    It's just an idea; if this thread is more for just a quick reference and some brief metagame discussion, the ranks probably don't need any caps.

    Like I said, I was ify on it myself.
  13. /B/utterfree

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    Limiting each Rank to some ratios might be helpful, but it would also restrict viability analysis greatly. That said, some Pokemon in B Rank do not belong there (Rhydon), and eventually a similar ratio might be found.

    I want to move Rhydon from B Rank to D Rank. While it is a palpable SR user, it is also not very good. Firstly, it has no recovery because most of the time it is forced to run Eviolite or Choice Band (usually the former) in order to be effective. Secondly, in contrast to some Pokemon, Rhydon does not have Sturdy and thus is OHKO-able (especially from the Special side) before it can even pull off Rocks. It does not get Solid Rock to fix this; its Dream World ability is Reckless (which is not helpful since Rock Head is generally better anyway, but Rhydon's movepool is found wanting to make either ability useful). Thirdly, Rhydon's analysis itself admits that while it has potential, it is also outsped and killed by 3/4th of the tier. It also admits that Rhydon is "high risk, high reward" (which means at best it is C Rank; many Pokemon present in B, C, and even D Rank generally have significantly less risk than Rhydon does).

    Some of the things Rhydon could beat also check most of its sets. While Poliwrath does not lose to Rhydon regardless, it finds OHKOing defensive sets with Scald not possible (what about with Waterfall, though?). Other than Choice Band Rhydon, Tangrowth beats most of them. Steelix also can check Rhydon, albeit it is shakier because CB Earthquake can 2HKO. Priority attacks from Kabutops and Feraligatr, to name a few Pokemon, also shut Rhydon down. Choice Scarfers of base 70 and above also laugh at Rhydon (even Primeape!). Many Pokes that also just naturally outspeed Rhydon (if it isn't using the equally-situational Rock Polish set) also just outspeed and check it (Crawdaunt can outspeed all Rhydon, for example, and OHKO with Waterfall).
  14. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    D needs a definition change. The current definition of D rank is redundant with E, since they essentially mean the same thing (don't use these mons in RU). D rank should be a place for Pokemon with a niche in RU, but a restricted one. They "cost more than they are worth," cost being a team slot.

    This way it wouldn't be as repugnant to place anything in D rank, since they still do have a place in RU. With this definition change, a lot of the current C ranks can possibly move down to D, since C is messy, imo, cluttered with decent to mediocre Pokemon.

    I am also open to lars, "soft limit," it's really interesting.

    Why is Primeape in B rank x_x
  15. Molk

    Molk Assault Vest Whimsicott ^_^
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    Thanks pocket! we discussed this on irc and i changed the definition for D to be something more fitting.

    I dont agree with rhydon being moved down to D, but im kinda tired atm so ill just post my reasoning in the morning.

    Btw, Silentverse propsed some more pokemon to be on the untested list, ill put the list of possible new pokemon in hide tags, you can post your thoughts on whether they are worth adding or not!

    Show Hide
    Glaceon
    Lunatone
    Serperior
    Cacturne
    Lickilicky
    Vileplume
    Kangaskhan
    Leafeon
    Butterfree
    Mothim
  16. Phazon00

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    Am I the only one who wants Rotom-N up to S? Seriously, after testing that out, I have found it to be quite the amazing bulky spinblocker. However, unlike Spiritomb, it has a great offensive AND defensive typing, an ability that isn't complete deadweight and much better special offense with its dual stab. Electric and Ghost covers a large portion of the RU metagame, including threats like Kabutops and Moltres who are hit by Electric and Uxie is hit by Ghost. Even bulky pokes (Like the "great" Munchlax) are knocked down by Will-O-Wisp and are slowly worn down.

    But wait! That isn't the only side to Rotom-N! It isn't just bulky, it is also an effective Choice user with its excellent special offense and great speed. Rotom-C may seem better as a choice user, but Rotom-N still has its spinblocking capabilities and its epic Dual Stab.

    So yeah, Rotom-N for S Rank? Who's with me? Anyone? Anyone?
  17. /B/utterfree

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    'Fraid I ain't with ya.

    As much as I like Rotom-N, why wouldn't you use Rotom-C or Rotom-F instead? Their respective dual-STABs of Electric/Grass and Electric/Ice cover a bit more of the tier and also hit the same threats bar Uxie. Then you run HP Fire (for Rotom-C) or HP Ground (for Rotom-F) to cover whatever their STABs don't that needs getting. Electric/Ghost typing is enough for A Rank, though, and it is still a good offensive and defensive typing.

    That said, the Rotom line in general is one of my favorite and one of the few Electric-type lines (other than the Magnemite line) that I genuinely enjoy playing with. As much as I want all of the Electric-types I like to be S Rank, I'm afraid I'm going to have to keep an objective eye here and disagree.
  18. lars

    lars

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    I don't think I can quite agree with you. Rotom-N is an excellent choice in many situations to be sure. That's why it is A rank. Is it really any better than Sigilyph or Drapion or Tangrowth? I wouldn't say so.

    With the changes to the "definition of D rank" these are my opinions on most of the recently suggested changes and some of the added possible Pokemon.

    Whimsicott UP from C rank to B rank

    Magneton stays in D rank

    Hariyama stays in D rank

    Rhydon Down from B rank to C rank

    Rotom-N stays in A rank

    Primeape stays in B rank

    (just because it isn't used much doesn't mean it isn't decent. Resisting SR, and having access to encore and U-turn give it fairly reliable roles on a team and it's pretty hard to directly shut down)

    Glaceon goes to D rank

    Leafeon goes to C rank

    Vileplume goes to C rank

    Lunatone goes to D rank (not sure it really even needs to be here)

    Kangaskhan goes to B rank

    Lickilicki goes to C rank

    _____________________

    other additions I think are reasonable

    Seismitoad goes to D rank (slight niche for Rain teams)

    Shiftry goes to C rank (with a SD under the sun, this thing wrecks house)

    Sawk goes to C rank (pretty good Choice Scarf user with certain team comps)

    Raichu goes to D rank (its usable, Encore NP can go along way with 100 Base speed)

    Cradily goes to C rank (one of the better Curse users available in RU honestly)

    Musharna DOWN from B rank to C rank. (Sigi does offense so much better and both Clefable and Miltank are better for the defensive role)
  19. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
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    No one has talked about this thing yet, but I'm not convinced AT ALL that Tauros deserves to be an A-ranked Pokemon.

    Its main problem is that it really isn't that hard to wall in all honesty. Why? It doesn't hit as hard as you would really think, since 100 base attack and somewhat limited coverage aren't that great. Sheer Force? Yeah that helps it by a a lot but Earthquake isn't boosted by that ability. It only 4HKOs a 252/220 Steelix with it and the standard Rhydon is 3HKOed by it too, while both can 2HKO the thing with their STABs, and even CB Aggron has like a 50% chance to live and OHKOs it with Head Smash. It probably gets wrecked by status more than almost anything in the tier - if its paralyzed or burned, its useless. Its not even that hard to status it, since it does awful against Ghost-types.

    I will give it credit that it can sweep late-game since its so fast, but it doesn't have very many chances to switch into opponents (Special Attacks really hurt this thing) and it isn't exactly hard to revenge kill (get your Choice Scarfed Fighting-type or your Focus Blast and watch it die, or use Sceptile). At least Bouffalant has a lot of chances to switch in due to Sap Sipper, but what does Tauros do that makes it one of the best Pokemon in the tier? There is a pretty good reason its nowhere close to being in RU in the usage statistics, along with the fact I have seen only one and I wrecked it before it did anything major. I'd say C-ranked is where it should go, and that's honestly a bit generous on my part.

    EDIT: I'm thinking Escavalier should be Rank A. Its a good, very powerful Pokemon, don't get me wrong, but in my experience it was suprisingly not too difficult to 2HKO and to take a hit from (2 is impossible). Slowking can Fire Blast it, almost everything in the game outspeeds it, and if it gets burned its pretty much dead. Basically, its probably the easiest thing ever to revenge kill and needs (a lot) of help to deal with the Fire problems, but aside from that it is good... this makes me lean toward A rather than S.

    Hariyama and Magneton deserve to be C-tiered, but I'm thinking Whimsicott needs to stay in C-tier as well, since a lot of Pokemon aren't affected by it much at all (Sceptile, Bouffalant, etc.)
  20. Honko

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    You are completely off-base about Tauros. If it moves anywhere, it should be up to S-rank. I honestly believe it is one of the 10 best Pokemon in RU right now.

    Part of your problem is you aren't taking Fire Blast into account. It's by far Tauros's best 4th move. Fire Blast easily 2HKOes Steelix and Tangrowth, the two best physical walls in the tier right now. With a layer of Spikes up, you don't even have to use Fire Blast on the switch: EQ + Fire Blast 2HKOes Steelix, and Rock Climb + Fire Blast 2HKOes Tangrowth. The same holds for Escavalier, by the way.

    Aggron is OHKOed 50% of the time and is slower. Defensive Rhydon is 3HKOed, but it only does 65-75% back, so it ends up being a tie if it switches in (Tauros KOes it, then probably dies to the 3rd round of LO recoil). Offensive Rhydon is outsped and 2HKOed.

    Basically, any non-Ghost wall that tries to switch in will probably lose. It is, in fact, very hard to wall Tauros if you don't have Spiritomb or Misdreavus on your team. Throw in the excellent Speed that lets it check a ton of offensive threats as well, and you have one of the very best attackers in RU. You should try it. You won't be disappointed.
  21. Molk

    Molk Assault Vest Whimsicott ^_^
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    Im going to make some changes that have mentioned, but not all of them just yet! I still some need more discussion.

    With the new definitions, Magneton is going to stay in D for now, as i mentioned in my other post, its a very specific niche pokemon, and while it is usable on some teams, its usually not the right fit (especially because it only traps like two things, lol). Im going to move hariyama up to C for now, feel free to argue against this if you want!

    Im also going to move whimsicott up to B simply because i feel it fills the definition of a "niche pokemon" better than anything. Prankster Stun Spore and Encore are both very notable moves, and with all the support moves it gets, its one of the best momentum grabbers in the tier, subseed whimsicott should be in E, though.

    Some other proposed changes include Rhydon to D (da fuq!!!!), Tauros to B, Rotom-N to S, and escavalier to A. Im going to have to honestly say i dont agree with a single one of these proposals, but we'll see!

    Another proposal thats been recently brought up on irc is to move Lilligant to S tier, and im going to have to agree. Lets look at what Lilligant can do, shall we? Lilligant has a combination of one of the best boosting moves in the game (Quiver Dance). A decently accurate full stop to the majority of the pokemon that can stop it (Sleep Powder). As well as a high base 110 special attack, 90 speed, okay bulk, access to a healing move and recovery move in one, and decent enough coverage with hidden power. The reasoning for moving Lilligant up to S rank is simple. If you can force a switch with Lilligant (rather easy because of shit like Gatr, tops, and Slowking/Lanturn, Lilligant can get a free boost as they switch to their best check. From there Lilligant can usually simply put this check to sleep with sleep powder (with the exception of bouffalant and other things with sap sipper/insomnia), and possibly set up another quiver dance to sweep. Lilligant's decent bulk also allows it to get past priority, only taking 60% or so from entei's banded extremespeed, putting absol to sleep, and resisting aqua jet. I thought lilligant's coverage issues got in the way a lot more than they actually do, and in practice, lilligant is in fact, a badass that is capable of destroying any team without a solid counter given the opportunity. TL;DR the ease of which lilligant can set up, its ability to shut down its counters, and its capability to sweep the majority of teams without a hard counter make Lilligant deserving of S rank imo.

    In summary, official changes are:

    1) Whimsicott UP from C rank to B rank

    2) Magneton STAYS D Rank

    3) Hariyama UP from D rank to C rank

    Proposed changes include:

    Rhydon DOWN from B rank to D rank (what the fuck)

    Tauros DOWN from A rank to B rank,

    Rotom-N UP from A rank to S rank,

    Escavalier DOWN from S rank to A rank.

    Lilligant UP from A rank to S rank

    discuss
  22. /B/utterfree

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    The solidified changes are good.

    I agree that Lilligant should go from A Rank to S Rank. It can sweep easily with Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance at its disposal. With Petal Dance knocking anything that is not a Sap Sipper down, all Lilligant really goes is make a couple of otherwise-unused Pokemon continue being used more while she otherwise messes with the tier in obtusely easy ways (crippling a "check" reliably, while also setting up on a healthy chunk of the tier; Petal Dance and HP Rock are all she needs in coverage). She's still a prime suspect in my book, and S Rank is the first place for where people will want to observe Suspects.

    That said, if D Rank seems inappropriate for Rhydon (given it is a Stealth Rocker who is more harm than good on a team to me), then C Rank is also palpable. However, Rhydon's flaws are way too crippling for it to stay in B Rank. Each of Rhydon's sets, be they the Tank Eviolite or even the Rock Polish set, has a hard counter in Crawdaunt (who always outspeeds no matter what the set and OHKOs with Adaptability Waterfall) among other Pokemon (such as Tangrowth for anything not-Choice Band, and Poliwrath). Considering 3/4th of the tier can also outspeed and kill even with a coverage move, it is reliably checked by a lot of Pokemon (despite SR/Stone Edge being serious business, even Moltres checks it with HP Grass, and it goes first under almost all circumstances).

    I like the Rhyhorn line of Pokemon, but if something is not viable I have to call the Pokemon out on it. I'd easily do the same if someone put Magcargo in B Rank, and it's one of few Fire-types I don't instantly hate using.
  23. Double01

    Double01 Hate it or love it the under dog's on top

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    Lilligant should not go S rank. It requires way more support then something like Moltres or Kabutops requires. It has shit coverage because if it run hp rock then escav and ferroseed rapes it while if it runs hp fire then moltres and entei own lilligant. Its just A rank because it has to have good support for it to be effective.
  24. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I might not play RU anymore, but just that is enough to disqualify everything else you said. Crawdaunt is not a hard counter to anything, not even Slowking. Crawdaunt cannot switch into SpecsKing and even Defensive will break its Subs with Scald or potentially burn it if it tries to DD. To humor you, I'll even post some calcs to show how ludicrous that statement was.

    • 252 Atk Rhydon (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Crawdaunt: 76.49% - 90.67% (2 hits to KO)
    • 252 Atk Life Orb Rhydon (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Crawdaunt: 100% - 117.54% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    • 0 Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Crawdaunt: 57.46% - 68.28% (2 hits to KO)

    Crawdaunt is a terrible switch into Rhydon, especially the Rock Polish set which just plain OHKOes and even Defensive Rhydon is getting in a pretty solid 2HKO. Defensive Rhydon by the way can actually live an Adaptability Waterfall from Crawdaunt [252 Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Waterfall vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Rhydon (+Def) : 67.63% - 81.16% (2 hits to KO)]
  25. Molk

    Molk Assault Vest Whimsicott ^_^
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    Even with the crippling grass and water weaknesses, rhydon's sheer bulk just cant be overlooked. Rhydon is actually the most physically bulky pokemon in the whole game overall when you take eviolite into account, and it can also take its fair share of hits from the special side. Rhydon is actually capable of taking things like STAB waterfalls from kabutops with the correct ev spread, and can also take hp grasses from things like moltres with a specially defensive spread. Rhydon is very flexible with EVs, and its easy to spread them across its stats to get the desired results you need. Also, while rhydon's typing might not be the best defensively, its certainly great offensively, edgequake coverage is nothing to laugh at, especially when you have STAB on both rock and ground, and have a base 130 attack to use it with. Rhydon also packs megahorn to hit tangrowth with if you have good prediction skills. As i said before, despite rhydon's weaknesses, it can take a fuckton of punisment on the physical side, being able to hard counter things like absol and zangoose with a physically defensive spread. While also full stopping CB entei and being able to check kabutops lacking waterfall (basically all of the ones with rapid spin, lol). Basically, if you dont have a STAB waterfall or power whip and your a physical attacker, rhydon can check you. Also, a calc to show just how bulky this guy is.

    252Atk Choice Band Pure Power Kyurem Black (+Atk) Outrage vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Lightningrod Rhydon (+Def): 80% - 95% (334 - 394 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    If you didnt read the above calc, thats banded +2 kyurem outrage vs max/max rhydon, this nigga is bulky.

    So TL;DR: I think rhydon should stay in B, its sheer bulk, power, coverage, and stealth rock more than make up for the flaws it has imo.

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