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Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Celever

    Celever

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    Dude, you don't need spaces between paragraphs that big, I shortened down your post for you in the quote, it's fine like that...

    Swarm has advantages over hustle. I actually have durant as a back-up wallbreaker as well as a sweeper, and when you're wallbreaking do you know what you don't want? Misses. You also get an extremely powerful X-scissor below 33%.

    Every good durant runs superpower? That's new.
    In actual fact there are many durant that don't run superpower. Because of durant's pretty atrocious special defense I have never managed to run a hone claws set effectively, that means that superpower is a very double-edged sword. On a set like hone claws it is very counter-productive, why set up boosts to then get rid of them? On a choice scarf set it may work, like emboar, but I may just really hate superpower as a whole (hammer arm emboar ftw).

    NO NO NO.
    Wide lens is a gimmick, and not even a good gimmick. As said before, durant needs its item the majority of the time. Wide lens doesn't even give it 100% accuracy, still with a 1/10 chance to miss. I am totally repeating texas here, but just don't bring up wide lens again... please...

    It may be able to hit something hard, but with low special defense and, for most people, crippling accuracy issues durant simply is not good enough for S rank. S rank is for absolutely incredibly amazing pokemon in the metagame, and I'm still not 100% with druddigon being the best of the best in RU, never mind durant, who is pretty item reliant, has accuracy issues if you, like most people, run hustle and is pretty counterable in RU.

    A rank for durant

    On a side note, I agree that rotom-C is the best of the best of RU. He deserves low S, in my opinion, and while I personally prefer lilligant, I still love using rotom-C sometimes thanks to his brilliance in RU. I think he may be able to hold his own in mid S, but low S is good for him right now.
  2. Magcargo

    Magcargo Five Star
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    I agree with this, but I don't think that the other users will. Many people say that moltres is better because of it higher speed and secondary STAB, but magmortar has many key advantages. Thanks to its access to Thunderbolt, most bulky waters, barring the rare lanturn, cannot wall it and unlike Hurricane, it isn't a coin flip whether it hits 2 times or not. Vitual spirit is another boon, since smeargle and liligant can't cripple magmortar. Magmortar also has access to Focus blast and while it is as accurate as moltres's hurricane, it still does quite a bit of damage to normal walls like clefable. Low A-Rank is prefect for it, but it could stay in Top B-Rank.

    As for rotom-c, I apoligize for comparing it to sceptile, but thanks to its access to STAB electric attacks, it doesn't have to rely on HP rock to get past moltres and scyther, allowing to run a different HP coverage move, such as HP fire. Its choice scarf set in particular is amazing at revenge killing and grabbing momentum with volt switch. The choice specs set hits like a nuke and either can OHKO things with leaf storm, or grab momentum with a slower, stronger volt switch. Its deserves S-Rank.
  3. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    Not gonna make an update just yet (although Rotom-C's guarenteed a spot in low S rank unless theres significant opposition), i'm going to need a few more opinions on certain pokemon before i place them (some of the untested mons/remaining unplaced C rank mons). But i have a proposal to make in the meantime.


    [​IMG]
    Nominating Emboar for top A rank

    Although Emboar was overlooked a lot during BW1 and the early stages of BW2 for its low speed and competition in the form of Entei, i seriously think that Emboar at least deserves top A rank at the moment. Ever since its initial rise to RU (albiet because of a spammer >.> although it would have probably moved up to ru next tier shift anyway , given that many of the top players in the tier were starting to use it even before it moved up) its cemented itself as one of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier. Choice Scarf Emboar is arguably the best glue Pokemon/filler for offensive teams, checking a myriad of common threats including but not limited to Lilligant, Sceptile, Absol, Durant, Escavalier, Tangrowth, Amoonguss, Magmortar, and most hail abusers...all in one teamslot! Aside from that, Choice Scarf Emboar simply makes a great late game cleaner and revenge killer with its combination of power, scarf boosted Speed, and bulk. Unlike other common Fire-types such as Entei, Moltres, and Magmortar, Emboar doesnt have a weakness to Stealth Rock, lessening the need for a spinner and making Emboar a bit easier to fit into different types of teams. Also, with Nidoqueen leaving the tier, slower, more defensive teams are starting to become more common, and with the entire tier not aiming to outrun her, slower Emboar sets have become more viable as well. For example: Choice Band Emboar makes an excellent wallbreaker, using its combination of excellent dual STABs, raw power, and good coverage options to tear down RU's walls with ease, not even Slowking is safe from CB Emboar, as Wild Charge has a 50% chance of OHKOing standard defensive Slowking after Stealth Rock, a pretty impressive feat. Some other non Scarf Emboar sets might be viable as well, such as mixed, Flame Charge and Specs, but these are completely untested for the most part so i wont mention anything about them in particular. In the end, i think Emboar's absolutely amazing in this metagame, and i think the facts stated above are enough to justify placing it in top A rank, although if you disagree with this proposal feel free to speak up!
  4. ss234

    ss234 bop.

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    Full support for both Emboar and Rotom-C. Emboar is a really excellent pokemon in the current metagame, thanks to its ability to check lilligant, sceptile, escavalier, durant, absol and many ice types commonly found on hail teams as well. These are all huge threats in the current metagame, and thanks to emboar's ability check all of them with ease, it is a great glue pokemon for offensive teams. However, Emboar also packs a pretty huge punch even with a Choice Scarf, thanks to its good base 123 Att and 120 BP STAB moves. Emboar also has excellent coverage with just Flare Blitz / Superpower / Wild Charge, hitting almost everything in the tier for at least neutral damage. Band is also a pretty good wall-breaker, thanks to the huge power of both it's STAB moves with a Band. Emboar does have flaws however, such as being slow without a Choice Scarf and decent at best bulk,as well as being worn down really quickly despite having a neutrality to SR due to its recoil moves. However, I think that Emboar's attributes, such as being able to check a wide variety of dangerous pokes in the metagame and having great coverage and power makes it a really great pick in this metagame, so yeah emboar for High A rank pls.

    Rotom-C is also a really excellent pokemon in the current metagame. Firstly, rotom-c has pretty damn good bulk, and a nice typing to go with it, allowing it to check choice locked electric types such as manectric and opposing rotom-c, as well as check most water types such as +2 kabutops and +2 gatr and can switch in one eq's from the likes of rhydon. As previously mentioned, rotom-c is also one of the best choice scarf users in the tier, and is excellent at wracking up damage through volt switch, which ground types fear due to rotom-c's second STAB, leaf storm which is quite powerful even without a boosting item due to the high bp. Rotom-c is also immune to spikes, which is a huge help for a scarfer, making it much harder to wear down. This good bulk, great defensive typing, immunity to spikes, decent speed(outspeeds jolly +1 kabutops which is cool), access to volt switch and good STAB's make rotom-c one of the best scarf users in the tier. However, rotom-c can do much more than this. It can use expert belt to surprise pokes hoping to switch in on a move they resist / are immune to, and get hit by a STAB / HP that can deal a ton of damage. Rotom-c can also run a ridiculously powerful choice specs set, that can destroy some common counters(defensive cryogonal for example is 2HKO'd by leaf storm after SR). However, this is much slower than the choice scarf set, which limits its ability to check durant / swellow / +2 +1 tops etc. All in all, I think that rotom-c's plus points make it a low S rank pokemon in the current metagame.
  5. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest It's Showtime! Are you ready?
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    (I'm making this post from my phone so please bear with me)

    I definitely agree with moving Emboar to Top A-Rank. The thing is just a beast in RU. He has a solid typing that, as Silvershadow said, which makes it a great check to quite a lot of threats in the tier. Emboar also is very strong and his STABs alone give greay coverage, with Wild Charge wrapping it up. It is a solid revenge killer and wallbreaker too, making it worthy of Top A-Rank.

    Rotom-C deserves Low S imo. He is the best Choice Scarf user in the tier thanks to good STABs and Volt Switch making it hard to play around. It also has other options like Expert Belt and such, not to mention he is a good rain setter as well, especially in my RMT. Low S imo.

    Just my two cents.
  6. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    ok, update time!

    Here are the updates i decided to make this time around, some were proposals in this thread, and others came from irc discussions
    be sure to remember that none of these changes are permanent, if you disagree with a change feel free to post an argument to get it veto'ed

    After reading some of the arguments against moving Durant to S rank i've decided against moving it to S rank for the time being, and it will remain top A rank for now, although moving it up still isnt completely out of the question if someone can make a convincing argument to move it up! :>.
  7. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas but then what's left of me?
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    I would like to propose moving Crawdaunt down to high or mid C.

    It's just not fast enough in the current meta to be effective. After one dragon dance, Jolly Crawdaunt reaches a speed of 343, still out sped by all positive nature base 108's and above, and outsped by neutral nature base 125's. This doesn't even include all the common choice scarf users that reside above Crawdaunt's mediocre 55 base speed. Crawdaunt can be revenge killed with ease by some of the current RU heavy hitters (Sceptile, Rotom, Galvantula, and Accelgor to name a few common ones).

    This doesn't even account for the fact that Crawdaunt's 63/85/55 defenses make setting up incredibly hard to begin with.

    While it does hit super-freaking hard, thanks to adaptability and a base 120 attack, its high attack isn't very well utilized in RU, especially with the hyper offensive teams running around making set up/getting a move off a pain.

    I have never seen someone use the choice band set, but I can't imagine it getting more than one KO per match, and if I wanted a wall breaker I'd go with something like Moltres or Durant.

    C-Rank: "Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being top tier threats. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be as effective as higher ranked Pokemon in RU. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."

    I feel this description fits Crawdaunt far better than the B-rank description does.

    (Sorry if this is bad formatting, I am relatively new)
  8. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    Ok, update time!


    About Crawdaunt: Although all my experiences using Crawdaunt have been pretty positive, i think placing it in top C rank is totally reasonanle, although some people may or may not disagree with me from things said on irc. As atomicllamas mentioned, Crawdaunt is still rather slow after a Dragon Dance, and while its perfectly capable of sweeping most teams (especially defensive balance/stall/bulky offense), it often has trouble with being revenge killed by these faster threats, all of which are somewhat common. As mentioned Crawdaunt's bulk isnt too amazing either, and it has a lot of trouble finding an opportunity to switch in and set up these days, especially with that typing giving it weaknesses to Bug, Electric, Fighting, and Grass, all of which are pretty common in RU in some shape or form. Its still not all bad for Crawdaunt though, if it can get that crucial chance to switch in and get a Dragon Dance up it poses a significant threat, and with careful play, Crawdaunt can use Substitute to help protect itself against potential revenge killers at least in the short term, giving it more time to do damage even if something like Scarf Rotom-C is on the opposing team. Furthermore, pretty much none of the things that outrun Crawdaunt after a Dragon Dance can switch into it safely, which means Crawdaunt can still nab at least one KO if the player using it has some good prediction skills, so its not like Crawdaunt is a horrible Pokemon or anything because i moved it down to C rank, it just needs a bit more team support to function as well as Pokemon in higher ranks. Although remember, if enough of you strongly disagree with this change, i could easily move Crawdaunt back up to low B rank as long as you guys can back up your arguments, likewise, if you think Crawdaunt should be mid or even low C instead of top C, i could do that as well as long as theres some good reasoning behind it =).

    EDIT: added Vigoroth to untested!
  9. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Proposing to move Cinccino to Mid A Rank. Cinccino is a very good revenge killer and late-game sweeper. It's also unique and effective in that it can break Focus Sash users like Smeargle which is always useful, and can get past Substitute users which is especially important because of hail abusers like Walrein. Cinccino can be a great Choice Scarf user as well, because it outspeeds most other common Choice Scarf users as well as Accelgor. I feel that these traits are very important in the current metagame and Cinccino has become quite common in ladder and tournament play because of this.
  10. Magcargo

    Magcargo Five Star
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]Nominating Rhydon for Low A-Rank[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Rhydon is an amazing pokemon in RU and deserves to be Low A-rank for several reasons. Thanks to a sky-high base 130 attack and amazing coverage with just its 2 STAB moves, you Rhydon is going to be an offensive threat espicially since it has megahorn for tangrowth. While it does have a poor base speed of 40, it can be remedied slightly with Rock polish, which turns rhydon into a speedy threat. Thanks to its amazing 105/120/45 defenses, which can further be boosted by eviolite, rhydon has the highest physical defense in the game. Because it is super bulky on the physical side, it can invest more of its EVs in special defense to tank moves like moltres's hp grass. However, rhydon is one of those pokemon you can custimize your EV spread with, meaning that it can run any spread and still be effective. ​

    Obviously rhydon has some flaws, such as two 4x weaknesses, but its pros more than make up for them and thus, make it fit for A-Rank. ​
  11. shadowpandax

    shadowpandax formerly SpareAacount

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    I might as well nominate Snover to be upgraded to Low A.

    Hail is a really powerful playstyle that only Snover can bring to the table, and while it itself may not be too good, so many Pokemon, like Glaceon, Rotom-F, and Walrein, wouldn't be as high as they are without support from Snover. While its stats are rather unspectacular, Snover has done its job when its sent out, which is set up the hail. Some Pokemon, like Escavalier and Emboar, are rising in usage because hail is such a dangerous thing to face, and they can check common hail abusers. Snover has definitely impacted the tier with hail, and I think that it should be booted up to Low A rank.
  12. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I just... can't see Rhydon above B-Rank to be honest. Those two flaws are very large, and makes a lot of Pokemon hit it for a heck of a lot of damage. A big thing to consider is that when Rhydon gets hit, the HP it lost is gone for good. Also, its weaknesses are extremely common in the tier - if you look at S-Rank, a lot of the best Pokemon in the tier just flat out beat it, or at least do irreparable damage.

    I know this isn't the standard EVs but all the KOs are around the same

    OHKO
    0 SpAtk Slowking Scald vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Rhydon: 104.35% - 123.19% (Guaranteed OHKO) (You got Megahorn to deal with Slowking but Slowking has Regenerator and Slack Off to make up for the HP loss)
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Sceptile Giga Drain vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Rhydon: 168.12% - 197.1% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    252 SpAtk Rotom-C Leaf Storm vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Rhydon: 237.68% - 281.16% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Moltres Hidden Power Grass vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Rhydon: 116.91% - 138.16% (Guaranteed OHKO)

    Irreparable harm
    4 SpAtk Entei (-SpAtk) Hidden Power Grass vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Rhydon: 50.24% - 59.9% (2 hits to KO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Escavalier (+Atk) Iron Head vs 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 61.59% - 72.46% (2 hits to KO)
    252 Atk Druddigon (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 31.4% - 37.2% (3-4 hits to KO) (With a Choice Band this could be a 2HKO)

    Again, Rhydon cannot heal itself, so its resilience is mildly negated by this. Considering how common its weaknesses are in the metagame (notably Grass which is EVERYWHERE), Rhydon should stay at high B imo. The power it packs doesn't make up for it quite enough to be ranked in A, because its weaknesses are extremely common. (there's also High-A stuff like SD Gallade and HC Durant which do a ton of damage)
  13. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest It's Showtime! Are you ready?
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    I agree with DC, Cinccino should definitely go to Mid A-Rank. The cutie is obscenely powerful and has decent coverage, so it can wreck. Furthermore, its multi-hits make it an excellent anti-lead, destroying Smeargle, Snover, and Scolipede with relative ease. Sub-breaking is also a plus, making it a great stop to SubSplit Rotom-F and SubProtect Glaceon and Stallrein. Cinccino can also sweep teams using its amazing Speed and power after Steel-types are gone, which can be done via Magneton or Gallade. Overall, Cinccino is an awesome Pokemon in RU and deserves Mid A.

    Snover I could see in Low A simply because it commands a playstyle. What it brings to the table is the ability to throw nasty Blizzards, and a bunch. It makes ice-types all the more viable. Top B or Low A, either is good by me.

    As for Rhydon, I'm torn. Rhydon has really awesome bulk and power, plus incredible STAB coverage. Rhydon also sets up SR well, checks threats such as Entei and Bouffalant excellently. It also has offensive roles in CB and LO which it pulls off with really good ease. It has two very bad weaknesses though. I could see it in either Top B or Low A, but either way Top B is as low as it should go.
  14. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    Because there was a brief period of inactivity since my last update and now where pretty much no nominations were made, i'm going to wait an extra 2 days or so before making the next update, just letting you guys know =). (i'll probably be removing some pokemon from untested).

    As for Rhydon, like the other users who've posted, i'm pretty damn torn on where Rhydon should go tbh. On one hand its proven to be absolutely amazing for me, checking various top threats with ease because of its bulk, setting up Stealth Rock easily, and making its presence known offensively with a strong Edgequake+Megahorn coming off of an Amazing base 130 Attack stat, but on the other hand those flaws are definitely there and do hold Rhydon back somewhat. At the moment i totally agree with ScraftyIsTheBest that Rhydon is easily top B rank minimum, but i can see where people such as Swamp Rocket are coming from when they say Rhydon should stay where it is.

    By the way, is it okay if i move Sandslash to D- rank? I simply dont understand what people see in it these days, pretty much every Sandslash i've faced in the past month since Nidoqueen left the tier has accomplished little to nothing during the match, rarely even pulling a spin off if i have some sort of Ghost-type such as Rotom, Misdreavus, or Spiritomb. Even if i dont have a Ghost-type, i always end up pressuring it to the point where it dies without getting a Rapid Spin off, or i simply reset Stealth Rock and/or my other hazards a few turns after if it ever gets to somehow spin. Although some people would say Sandslash is a good physical wall, it really never seems to wall much of anything from my experience, it has a complete lack of reliable recovery which means it gets worn down really quickly, and the majority of common physical attackers such as CB Entei, Druddigon, Escavalier, Waterfall Kabutops, and Gallade can still muscle through it even with Sandslash's good physical bulk thanks to incredibly powerful STAB moves and super effective moves. As for its ability to use SR+spin in one teamslot, i've tried Sandslash myself on a few occasions and i always found myself simply using a different Stealth Rock setter and an outright better spinner such as Kabutops or Cryogonal every single time, and i never, ever looked back. There are a few other things that make Sandslash pretty mediocre in my opinion, but i think this is enough to justify moving it back down to D rank at the moment, if you want me to elaborate i'll bring up some other points in a reply.
  15. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    I agree 100%.
  16. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

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    I definitely agree with you Molk, honestly Sandslash can't really do much, not even its main job (spinning in most cases.) It fails to beat all of the relevant spin blockers such as Missy, Rotom, Tomb, and even Dusknoir who isn't regarded as a good mon. Sandslash doesn't have reliable recovery, preventing it from running an effective defensive set, while just being plain outclassed by Kabutops offensively. No need to have Sandslash just because of 'more teamslots because rapid spin + sr' when having two seperate mons for that that work effectively is better than having one dead weight mon (Sandslash, in this case.) Both Kabutops and Cryogonal are better spinners, and I even have an easier time fitting them on teams than Sandslash. All in all, Sandslash is definitely not a Pokemon that belongs in C-rank.
  17. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    kk, time for some updates

    I'm so damn conflicted on where Rhydon should go ;-;, also, i think i ended up removing another mon from untested, but i totally forgot what it was, i'll edit its removal in if and when i remember what it was lol.

    [​IMG]
    Anyways, after testing it out a bit, i think Vigoroth deserves a spot in at least mid C rank. Its a pretty underrated mon with quite a few perks that help it stand out from the rest of the Normal-type crowd. With Eviolite equipped, Vigoroth has the equivalent of 80/145/105 defenses, which is more than enough for Vigoroth to take multiple hits throughout the match, a fast Slack Off further augments this, letting Vigoroth quickly heal off any significant damage its taken over the course of the match in just one turn, making Vigoroth an incredibly resilient Pokemon overall. Because of this resilience, Vigoroth makes an excellent user of Bulk Up, slowly boosting its stats until its ready to sweep while using Slack Off to restore any damage the opponent has done. The set i used on Vigoroth while testing it out was Taunt+Bulk Up, and thats by far its best set imo. While sacrificing the ability to hit certain Ghost-types looks bad at first, Taunt is quite hard to pass up on Vigoroth, letting it stop any Pokemon who might want to phaze, set up on, or cripple Roth with status right in their tracks, making Roth much harder to deal with in the long run despite its coverage handicap. Vigoroth does have its flaws of course, because of the coverage handicap it pretty much requires Pursuit support to function to its full effectiveness, and if roth chooses to run another coverage move such as Earthquake or Night Slash to cover the Pokemon return can't, it sorely misses Taunt, giving it a good case of 4mss to deal with :/. Vigoroth's also pretty vulnerable to moves such as Knock Off and Trick because of its reliance on Eviolite, these moves remove its precious stone, and thus strip Vigoroth of a significant amount of bulk, with TrickScarf even locking Vigoroth into the same move, effectively stopping it cold even if it had enough bulk to take on the rest of the opposing team after its Eviolite was removed. Nonetheless, Vigoroth is a pretty cool Pokemon imo, and while it does have some somewhat significant flaws, i think it definitely deserves a spot in Mid, if not Top C rank after testing it out, although i'll consider putting it lower if you guys disagree.
  18. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas but then what's left of me?
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    [​IMG]

    Murkrow is one of the pokemon currently residing in the untested tier. I believe that Murkrow could be low to mid C rank. With eviolite it is the bulkiest prankster abuser on which ever side you decide to invest in. Murkrow is also the only prankster abuser in the tier with access to instant recovery in the form of roost.

    It can abuse prankster in a multitude of ways. Like Liepard it can annoy your opponent to death with Swagger/Foul Play/Thunderwave. Given the same EVs Murkrow is always bulkier than Liepard and has access to roost, possibly making Murkrow the Superior choice. It can still use substitute if you want to avoid status/block the attack, but it will miss the leftovers recovery. I have used both the Perish Trapper set and the Featherdance/Stallbreaker set listed on smogon, and had moderate success with both. The perish trapper set is nice, but it is hard to get both the mean look and the perish song off without dying. It does, however, destroy walls, and open up huge holes for your sweepers. Perish song can also prevent a set up sweeper from plowing through your whole team. FeatherDance allows Murkrow to be extremely bulky on both sides, and can spread paralysis/toxic with ease. Priority taunt is also a wonderful asset on any support pokemon and can stop certain dedicated leads (Smeargle, Qwilfish, Support Uxie) from getting up their hazards/statusing your pokemon.

    Murkrow also has access to tailwind, sunny day, and rain dance, but Volbeat is the better weather setter and faces competition from Whimsicott as a tailwind setter.

    Murkrow does have some flaws that prevent it from being extremely dangerous. Unlike other prankster abusers it can't use leftovers, which means that Murkrow's health can dwindle away faster than one would think. Even after eviolite Murkrow's bulk is pretty average (still better than the other prankster abusers). Major 4mss. While it probably has the widest range of options of any of the prankster abusers, it doesn't necessarily excel at any of them.
  19. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    K, time some more updates (even though the discussion here is really slowing down :[)

    Also, going to make another nomination of my own! =).

    [​IMG]

    Nominating Alomomola for top B rank

    Damn Alomomola, i can't believe there was a time where i used to have you in D rank.....wow

    So anyways, Alomomola has really made a name for herself recently in RU as one of the, if not the best Wishpasser in the entire tier, possessing a massive base 165 HP stat, Alomomola has the largest Wish in the Entire tier, capable of fully healing pretty much offensive Pokemon in one go and healing 60%+ of the HP of pretty much every defensive Pokemon in the game. Unlike Wishpassers, Alomomola also has the advantage of Regenerator, which prevents her from being worn down from repeated Wishpassing and gives her a form of passive recovery that allows her to focus less on using Wish to restore her own hp and focus more on healing her teammates with her massive Wishes. Aside from passing these huge Wishes, Alomomola has proven herself as a very capable physical wall as well, having physical bulk rivaling Tangrowth's and a good defensive typing in Water that helps her check many of RU's physical attackers with ease, including Entei, Emboar, Absol, Feraligatr, most Druddigon and Hitmonlee among many others, slowly wearing them down with Toxic damage while keeping herself healthy with a combination of Wish and Protect, the latter of which lets her stall for Toxic damage more effectively and also makes her good at scouting choiced Pokemon. These days Alomomola has become a very familiar face on RU stall teams, at least for me, being on pretty much every stall team i use or play against just because of her sheer utility and how well she pairs with many of the tiers other defensive threats such as Roselia and Amoonguss. Alomomola can be used on certain forms of offense too, acting as a pivot to take the attacks her teammates can't while using her Wish to heal them up, making them much harder for the opponent to deal with. Overall, while mola does suffer from a few flaws such as low offensive presence, i think her incredible positive traits make her more than worthy of top B rank. Its okay if you disagree though.
  20. New Breed

    New Breed ka$h
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I gotta agree with this, I have used Alomomola, mainly on stall although it can function well on Balance with the ability Regenerator and passing huge Wishes making it extremely hard to kill off. Alomomola does have pretty much no offensive presence but the sheer utility it provides to a team coupled with great bulk and defensive typing more than outweigh this. As Molk said Alomomola has the ability to wall some of the top tier Physical threats and can even afford to run a spread of 4 Hp/252 Def/252 Sdef which still gives it giant wishes but makes it much harder to kill on the Special side.

    Alomomola is definitely on par with other Pokemon in the top B rank such as Braviary, Bouffolant, Feraligatr, Hitmonlee and Steelix and definitely deserves a spot there.
  21. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    Regarding the first sentence, it is kinda sad. I ladder often so when I try to this thread was always the place I went to for help with team building. That said, discussion slowing down could mean that people are becoming more and more content with the current state of the list, meaning only a few minor changes (and any possible drops) need to be taken into account. It's probably a good thing in the end because it means our meta is stable enough where things aren't wildly fluctuating on a daily basis.

    In order to contribute something actually useful. I agree that Alomomola should be moved up, but I'm kinda split between high and mid, tbh. Clearly her lack of offensive presence (worse than Munchlax against neutral targets) hurts her, but she is a decent physical wall and an AMAZING wishpasser. As a wall, she does receive competition from Qwilfish and Poliwrath, but it's more a question on what role the team needs as opposed to being directly outclassed. As a wishpasser, Alomomola is unparalleled. Between Wish and a subsequent Regenerator healing when she switches out, Mola can heal a total of 445 HP in two turns (assuming max HP). For an extreme comparison, even a Blissey's Wish only heals 357, although that all goes to the Wish target. Add in her nice defensive typing, and she'll probably find more opportunities to pass a Wish than Clefable, except maybe in Hail where immunity to hazards and hail damage really comes in handy. Clefable does tend to try and pass against special attackers as opposed to physical ones, but considering Clefable sits in Mid B, it would make sense to at least raise Mola to that.

    Since the support provided by her Wishes is so great, what it comes down to for me is how badly does her lack of offense hurt her. According to the tier definitions, the positives outshine the negatives, but the flaws are more notable. It certainly applies to Mola, considering spikers like Roselia, Ferroseed, and Qwilfish all take crap damage from Waterfall and are immune to Toxic, so there's essentially a free layer of Spikes. Steelix gets a special mention as a Stealth Rock user in that despite being weak to Water, he is only 7HKOed at best by Waterfall. In addition, threatening Pokemon like Jynx and Sceptile can come in on anything but Toxic and freely set up a Sub to help them sweep, since Mola can't break the Subs with Waterfall. She's so weak Waterfall isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO on standard Smeargle with a clear field.

    All things considered, I see her fitting in a level with Roselia, Misdreavus, and Clefable, but I can also see her fitting in a tier with Rhydon, Steelix, and Bouffalant. I just did a calc after writing this showing Mola doing more damage to a neutral target than Dusknoir's Shadow Punch given the same EV spread, so it's not all bad. Also, hazards aren't always free against Mola since many users of Stealth Rock won't like taking a Toxic, and Waterfall does decent damage to frailer/4x weak ones like Aerodactyl and Rhydon. So I guess I'll lean more towards Top B Rank with the other guys, although I do see Mid as a suitable option as well.
  22. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest It's Showtime! Are you ready?
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    Just popping in the say that I agree with moving Alomomola up to Top B-Rank. It's an incredible Wish supporter thanks to its massive HP, which allows it to throw massive Wishes to your team, making it a great team player. Alomomola is weak and can be set up on, but it doesn't really need to stay in for long, it just needs to get in on something that can't touch it, throw up a Wish, and go to proper teammates. Many Pokemon love the Wish support it provides. It needs teammates, but it helps the teammates it works well with, particularly Roselia, Spiritomb, and Steelix. It pairs up excellently with Druddigon and Escavalier too, as they wreck shit with CB, but are easy to wear down, but Mola has great synergy and passes massive Wishes to them allowing them to wreck more shit. Mola also walls a lot of top physical attackers such as Absol, Entei, and Emboar. Top B-Rank for sure.

    By the way I might test Sawk and Serperior soon so I'll be back sometime to nominate them for a rank.
  23. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    So..... i just made an update yesterday so i'm not going to be making any changes such as Alomomola to top B rank just yet, but i've added another Pokemon to untested that i think probably deserves a rank in this metagame!

    [​IMG]

    Torkoal might not seem like much as first, having very good defensive stats but an odd defensive typing as well as an abysmal Speed stat, but i think its a decent enough Pokemon to stand out from the crowd and deserve a spot on this list, probably D rank at the very least. To start things off, Torkoal has access to Rapid Spin and from what i've seen of it it does a better job as a spinner than things like Sandslash and Hitmonchan, with Smashkoal being able to 2HKO all the RU spinblockers at the very worst with a boost under its belt. While an absolutely terrible base 20 Speed might make a Shell Smash set seem completely unviable, +2 Modest Torkoal still has just enough Speed to outrun neutral natured Kabutops and Gallade, which is more than enough for Torkoal to accomplish its spinning role and possibly punch some holes into slower teams imo, especially given it has more than enough bulk to set up a Shell Smash against various physical attackers. Defensive Torkoal could have some utility as well, having access to some great support moves such as the aforementioned Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Will-O-Wisp, and Yawn. Otherwise, Torkoal's amazing physical bulk and Fire-typing would make it a decent check to various threatening physical attackers such as Entei, Escavalier, and Emboar, among others. Sadly, Torkoal is still far from a top tier Pokemon even with these positive qualities, it suffers a lot from being a grounded Rapid Spinner with a weakness to Stealth Rock and a lack of reliable recovery, meaning it'll get worn down quickly if it has to spin more than once over the course of the match. Also, while Fire provides Torkoal with some nifty resistances and a good STAB, it also makes Torkoal weak to common moves such as Scald, Earthquake, and Stone Edge, limiting its effectiveness as a defensive Pokemon and making it somewhat harder to set up a smash, especially given Torkoal's abysmal Speed stat. Nonetheless, i think Torkoal probably has a decent niche in RU, and it probably deserves at least D rank here in the end.
  24. Magcargo

    Magcargo Five Star
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    I'm going to make an oddball move and nominate Aerodactyl for Top B-Rank or Low A-Rank. Due to how common cincino and fire types are, areodactyl has a major niche of checking these pokemon. Thanks to a blazing 130 speed and great 105 attack, aerodactyl will be hitting fast and hard. While its rock/flying type gives it some unfortunate weaknesses, it does give our prehistoric friend resistences to normal, ground and fire, three important types in RU. Aerodactyl also can run a lead set, but thats generally ineffective in the metagame. However, it can still set up stealth rocks and taunt opposing leads. Overall, aerodactyl's speed and power make it Top B-Rank.

    Here are some other changes that I think should be done, but I don't have time to explain.
    Whimsicott-------> D-Rank
    Electivire--------> Top C-Rank
    Galvantula-------> Top B-Rank
    Magmortar-------> Low A-Rank
    Misdreavus-------> Top B-Rank

    Golurk-------> Top B-Rank
    Klinklang----> Top B-Rank
    Crawdaunt------> Low B-Rank.
    I highly doubt anybody will agree with these changes, but most of the changes I'm trying to make reflect the viability of these pokemon in the current metagame.
  25. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    kk, time for the full updates =).


    Remember that none of these changes are permanent, if you disagree with any of the recent changes i made here feel free to post a reply as to why the Pokemon should be moved to a different rank =).

    Regarding Magcargo 2's other changes (already moved Aero): I haven't used the majority of the Pokemon mentioned too recently (i used some of them when queen was around, but the meta's changed a bit since then so their viability might've changed a bit) but i can definitely throw my support behind Golurk moving up to top B rank. Its a pretty underrated Pokemon imo, and its one of my favorite Stealth Rock setters in the new metagame. One of my favorite things about Golurk is that it can somewhat serve to fill the void that Nidoqueen left on certain teams because of its similar typing, sharing resistances/immunities to Bug, Rock, Electric, Fighting, and Poison with the former RU monster, while also bringing some new things to the table, such as an immunity to Normal-type moves, and a neutrality against Ground- and Psychic-type Attacks, meaning Golurk can even check several Pokemon Nidoqueen couldn't during her period in RU. Outside of providing a check to many of the things Nidoqueen checked with its valuable Ground/Ghost typing, and ability to set Stealth Rock, Golurk's massive base Attack stat, good STAB, and great coverage options make it quite the offensive juggernaut, with CB Golurk being able to 2HKO pretty much every Pokemon available in the tier at worst with the exception of Tangrowth, and even then, Tangrowth sure doesn't enjoy a CB Iron Fist Ice Punch to the face. All in all, i've been really impressed with Golurk recently, and i'd be happy to move up it up to top B rank.

    By the way, i'm now allowing discussion on the top/mid/low placements of D rank Pokemon! So be sure to post if you have any thoughts on the Pokemon currently in D rank! =).

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