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Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

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    I definitely agree with you Molk, honestly Sandslash can't really do much, not even its main job (spinning in most cases.) It fails to beat all of the relevant spin blockers such as Missy, Rotom, Tomb, and even Dusknoir who isn't regarded as a good mon. Sandslash doesn't have reliable recovery, preventing it from running an effective defensive set, while just being plain outclassed by Kabutops offensively. No need to have Sandslash just because of 'more teamslots because rapid spin + sr' when having two seperate mons for that that work effectively is better than having one dead weight mon (Sandslash, in this case.) Both Kabutops and Cryogonal are better spinners, and I even have an easier time fitting them on teams than Sandslash. All in all, Sandslash is definitely not a Pokemon that belongs in C-rank.
  2. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    kk, time for some updates

    I'm so damn conflicted on where Rhydon should go ;-;, also, i think i ended up removing another mon from untested, but i totally forgot what it was, i'll edit its removal in if and when i remember what it was lol.

    [​IMG]
    Anyways, after testing it out a bit, i think Vigoroth deserves a spot in at least mid C rank. Its a pretty underrated mon with quite a few perks that help it stand out from the rest of the Normal-type crowd. With Eviolite equipped, Vigoroth has the equivalent of 80/145/105 defenses, which is more than enough for Vigoroth to take multiple hits throughout the match, a fast Slack Off further augments this, letting Vigoroth quickly heal off any significant damage its taken over the course of the match in just one turn, making Vigoroth an incredibly resilient Pokemon overall. Because of this resilience, Vigoroth makes an excellent user of Bulk Up, slowly boosting its stats until its ready to sweep while using Slack Off to restore any damage the opponent has done. The set i used on Vigoroth while testing it out was Taunt+Bulk Up, and thats by far its best set imo. While sacrificing the ability to hit certain Ghost-types looks bad at first, Taunt is quite hard to pass up on Vigoroth, letting it stop any Pokemon who might want to phaze, set up on, or cripple Roth with status right in their tracks, making Roth much harder to deal with in the long run despite its coverage handicap. Vigoroth does have its flaws of course, because of the coverage handicap it pretty much requires Pursuit support to function to its full effectiveness, and if roth chooses to run another coverage move such as Earthquake or Night Slash to cover the Pokemon return can't, it sorely misses Taunt, giving it a good case of 4mss to deal with :/. Vigoroth's also pretty vulnerable to moves such as Knock Off and Trick because of its reliance on Eviolite, these moves remove its precious stone, and thus strip Vigoroth of a significant amount of bulk, with TrickScarf even locking Vigoroth into the same move, effectively stopping it cold even if it had enough bulk to take on the rest of the opposing team after its Eviolite was removed. Nonetheless, Vigoroth is a pretty cool Pokemon imo, and while it does have some somewhat significant flaws, i think it definitely deserves a spot in Mid, if not Top C rank after testing it out, although i'll consider putting it lower if you guys disagree.
  3. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    [​IMG]

    Murkrow is one of the pokemon currently residing in the untested tier. I believe that Murkrow could be low to mid C rank. With eviolite it is the bulkiest prankster abuser on which ever side you decide to invest in. Murkrow is also the only prankster abuser in the tier with access to instant recovery in the form of roost.

    It can abuse prankster in a multitude of ways. Like Liepard it can annoy your opponent to death with Swagger/Foul Play/Thunderwave. Given the same EVs Murkrow is always bulkier than Liepard and has access to roost, possibly making Murkrow the Superior choice. It can still use substitute if you want to avoid status/block the attack, but it will miss the leftovers recovery. I have used both the Perish Trapper set and the Featherdance/Stallbreaker set listed on smogon, and had moderate success with both. The perish trapper set is nice, but it is hard to get both the mean look and the perish song off without dying. It does, however, destroy walls, and open up huge holes for your sweepers. Perish song can also prevent a set up sweeper from plowing through your whole team. FeatherDance allows Murkrow to be extremely bulky on both sides, and can spread paralysis/toxic with ease. Priority taunt is also a wonderful asset on any support pokemon and can stop certain dedicated leads (Smeargle, Qwilfish, Support Uxie) from getting up their hazards/statusing your pokemon.

    Murkrow also has access to tailwind, sunny day, and rain dance, but Volbeat is the better weather setter and faces competition from Whimsicott as a tailwind setter.

    Murkrow does have some flaws that prevent it from being extremely dangerous. Unlike other prankster abusers it can't use leftovers, which means that Murkrow's health can dwindle away faster than one would think. Even after eviolite Murkrow's bulk is pretty average (still better than the other prankster abusers). Major 4mss. While it probably has the widest range of options of any of the prankster abusers, it doesn't necessarily excel at any of them.
  4. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    K, time some more updates (even though the discussion here is really slowing down :[)

    Also, going to make another nomination of my own! =).

    [​IMG]

    Nominating Alomomola for top B rank

    Damn Alomomola, i can't believe there was a time where i used to have you in D rank.....wow

    So anyways, Alomomola has really made a name for herself recently in RU as one of the, if not the best Wishpasser in the entire tier, possessing a massive base 165 HP stat, Alomomola has the largest Wish in the Entire tier, capable of fully healing pretty much offensive Pokemon in one go and healing 60%+ of the HP of pretty much every defensive Pokemon in the game. Unlike Wishpassers, Alomomola also has the advantage of Regenerator, which prevents her from being worn down from repeated Wishpassing and gives her a form of passive recovery that allows her to focus less on using Wish to restore her own hp and focus more on healing her teammates with her massive Wishes. Aside from passing these huge Wishes, Alomomola has proven herself as a very capable physical wall as well, having physical bulk rivaling Tangrowth's and a good defensive typing in Water that helps her check many of RU's physical attackers with ease, including Entei, Emboar, Absol, Feraligatr, most Druddigon and Hitmonlee among many others, slowly wearing them down with Toxic damage while keeping herself healthy with a combination of Wish and Protect, the latter of which lets her stall for Toxic damage more effectively and also makes her good at scouting choiced Pokemon. These days Alomomola has become a very familiar face on RU stall teams, at least for me, being on pretty much every stall team i use or play against just because of her sheer utility and how well she pairs with many of the tiers other defensive threats such as Roselia and Amoonguss. Alomomola can be used on certain forms of offense too, acting as a pivot to take the attacks her teammates can't while using her Wish to heal them up, making them much harder for the opponent to deal with. Overall, while mola does suffer from a few flaws such as low offensive presence, i think her incredible positive traits make her more than worthy of top B rank. Its okay if you disagree though.
  5. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
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    I gotta agree with this, I have used Alomomola, mainly on stall although it can function well on Balance with the ability Regenerator and passing huge Wishes making it extremely hard to kill off. Alomomola does have pretty much no offensive presence but the sheer utility it provides to a team coupled with great bulk and defensive typing more than outweigh this. As Molk said Alomomola has the ability to wall some of the top tier Physical threats and can even afford to run a spread of 4 Hp/252 Def/252 Sdef which still gives it giant wishes but makes it much harder to kill on the Special side.

    Alomomola is definitely on par with other Pokemon in the top B rank such as Braviary, Bouffolant, Feraligatr, Hitmonlee and Steelix and definitely deserves a spot there.
  6. MicfiJasan

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    Regarding the first sentence, it is kinda sad. I ladder often so when I try to this thread was always the place I went to for help with team building. That said, discussion slowing down could mean that people are becoming more and more content with the current state of the list, meaning only a few minor changes (and any possible drops) need to be taken into account. It's probably a good thing in the end because it means our meta is stable enough where things aren't wildly fluctuating on a daily basis.

    In order to contribute something actually useful. I agree that Alomomola should be moved up, but I'm kinda split between high and mid, tbh. Clearly her lack of offensive presence (worse than Munchlax against neutral targets) hurts her, but she is a decent physical wall and an AMAZING wishpasser. As a wall, she does receive competition from Qwilfish and Poliwrath, but it's more a question on what role the team needs as opposed to being directly outclassed. As a wishpasser, Alomomola is unparalleled. Between Wish and a subsequent Regenerator healing when she switches out, Mola can heal a total of 445 HP in two turns (assuming max HP). For an extreme comparison, even a Blissey's Wish only heals 357, although that all goes to the Wish target. Add in her nice defensive typing, and she'll probably find more opportunities to pass a Wish than Clefable, except maybe in Hail where immunity to hazards and hail damage really comes in handy. Clefable does tend to try and pass against special attackers as opposed to physical ones, but considering Clefable sits in Mid B, it would make sense to at least raise Mola to that.

    Since the support provided by her Wishes is so great, what it comes down to for me is how badly does her lack of offense hurt her. According to the tier definitions, the positives outshine the negatives, but the flaws are more notable. It certainly applies to Mola, considering spikers like Roselia, Ferroseed, and Qwilfish all take crap damage from Waterfall and are immune to Toxic, so there's essentially a free layer of Spikes. Steelix gets a special mention as a Stealth Rock user in that despite being weak to Water, he is only 7HKOed at best by Waterfall. In addition, threatening Pokemon like Jynx and Sceptile can come in on anything but Toxic and freely set up a Sub to help them sweep, since Mola can't break the Subs with Waterfall. She's so weak Waterfall isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO on standard Smeargle with a clear field.

    All things considered, I see her fitting in a level with Roselia, Misdreavus, and Clefable, but I can also see her fitting in a tier with Rhydon, Steelix, and Bouffalant. I just did a calc after writing this showing Mola doing more damage to a neutral target than Dusknoir's Shadow Punch given the same EV spread, so it's not all bad. Also, hazards aren't always free against Mola since many users of Stealth Rock won't like taking a Toxic, and Waterfall does decent damage to frailer/4x weak ones like Aerodactyl and Rhydon. So I guess I'll lean more towards Top B Rank with the other guys, although I do see Mid as a suitable option as well.
  7. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Just popping in the say that I agree with moving Alomomola up to Top B-Rank. It's an incredible Wish supporter thanks to its massive HP, which allows it to throw massive Wishes to your team, making it a great team player. Alomomola is weak and can be set up on, but it doesn't really need to stay in for long, it just needs to get in on something that can't touch it, throw up a Wish, and go to proper teammates. Many Pokemon love the Wish support it provides. It needs teammates, but it helps the teammates it works well with, particularly Roselia, Spiritomb, and Steelix. It pairs up excellently with Druddigon and Escavalier too, as they wreck shit with CB, but are easy to wear down, but Mola has great synergy and passes massive Wishes to them allowing them to wreck more shit. Mola also walls a lot of top physical attackers such as Absol, Entei, and Emboar. Top B-Rank for sure.

    By the way I might test Sawk and Serperior soon so I'll be back sometime to nominate them for a rank.
  8. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    So..... i just made an update yesterday so i'm not going to be making any changes such as Alomomola to top B rank just yet, but i've added another Pokemon to untested that i think probably deserves a rank in this metagame!

    [​IMG]

    Torkoal might not seem like much as first, having very good defensive stats but an odd defensive typing as well as an abysmal Speed stat, but i think its a decent enough Pokemon to stand out from the crowd and deserve a spot on this list, probably D rank at the very least. To start things off, Torkoal has access to Rapid Spin and from what i've seen of it it does a better job as a spinner than things like Sandslash and Hitmonchan, with Smashkoal being able to 2HKO all the RU spinblockers at the very worst with a boost under its belt. While an absolutely terrible base 20 Speed might make a Shell Smash set seem completely unviable, +2 Modest Torkoal still has just enough Speed to outrun neutral natured Kabutops and Gallade, which is more than enough for Torkoal to accomplish its spinning role and possibly punch some holes into slower teams imo, especially given it has more than enough bulk to set up a Shell Smash against various physical attackers. Defensive Torkoal could have some utility as well, having access to some great support moves such as the aforementioned Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Will-O-Wisp, and Yawn. Otherwise, Torkoal's amazing physical bulk and Fire-typing would make it a decent check to various threatening physical attackers such as Entei, Escavalier, and Emboar, among others. Sadly, Torkoal is still far from a top tier Pokemon even with these positive qualities, it suffers a lot from being a grounded Rapid Spinner with a weakness to Stealth Rock and a lack of reliable recovery, meaning it'll get worn down quickly if it has to spin more than once over the course of the match. Also, while Fire provides Torkoal with some nifty resistances and a good STAB, it also makes Torkoal weak to common moves such as Scald, Earthquake, and Stone Edge, limiting its effectiveness as a defensive Pokemon and making it somewhat harder to set up a smash, especially given Torkoal's abysmal Speed stat. Nonetheless, i think Torkoal probably has a decent niche in RU, and it probably deserves at least D rank here in the end.
  9. Magcargo

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    I'm going to make an oddball move and nominate Aerodactyl for Top B-Rank or Low A-Rank. Due to how common cincino and fire types are, areodactyl has a major niche of checking these pokemon. Thanks to a blazing 130 speed and great 105 attack, aerodactyl will be hitting fast and hard. While its rock/flying type gives it some unfortunate weaknesses, it does give our prehistoric friend resistences to normal, ground and fire, three important types in RU. Aerodactyl also can run a lead set, but thats generally ineffective in the metagame. However, it can still set up stealth rocks and taunt opposing leads. Overall, aerodactyl's speed and power make it Top B-Rank.

    Here are some other changes that I think should be done, but I don't have time to explain.
    Whimsicott-------> D-Rank
    Electivire--------> Top C-Rank
    Galvantula-------> Top B-Rank
    Magmortar-------> Low A-Rank
    Misdreavus-------> Top B-Rank

    Golurk-------> Top B-Rank
    Klinklang----> Top B-Rank
    Crawdaunt------> Low B-Rank.
    I highly doubt anybody will agree with these changes, but most of the changes I'm trying to make reflect the viability of these pokemon in the current metagame.
  10. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    kk, time for the full updates =).


    Remember that none of these changes are permanent, if you disagree with any of the recent changes i made here feel free to post a reply as to why the Pokemon should be moved to a different rank =).

    Regarding Magcargo 2's other changes (already moved Aero): I haven't used the majority of the Pokemon mentioned too recently (i used some of them when queen was around, but the meta's changed a bit since then so their viability might've changed a bit) but i can definitely throw my support behind Golurk moving up to top B rank. Its a pretty underrated Pokemon imo, and its one of my favorite Stealth Rock setters in the new metagame. One of my favorite things about Golurk is that it can somewhat serve to fill the void that Nidoqueen left on certain teams because of its similar typing, sharing resistances/immunities to Bug, Rock, Electric, Fighting, and Poison with the former RU monster, while also bringing some new things to the table, such as an immunity to Normal-type moves, and a neutrality against Ground- and Psychic-type Attacks, meaning Golurk can even check several Pokemon Nidoqueen couldn't during her period in RU. Outside of providing a check to many of the things Nidoqueen checked with its valuable Ground/Ghost typing, and ability to set Stealth Rock, Golurk's massive base Attack stat, good STAB, and great coverage options make it quite the offensive juggernaut, with CB Golurk being able to 2HKO pretty much every Pokemon available in the tier at worst with the exception of Tangrowth, and even then, Tangrowth sure doesn't enjoy a CB Iron Fist Ice Punch to the face. All in all, i've been really impressed with Golurk recently, and i'd be happy to move up it up to top B rank.

    By the way, i'm now allowing discussion on the top/mid/low placements of D rank Pokemon! So be sure to post if you have any thoughts on the Pokemon currently in D rank! =).
  11. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    D-Rank is kinda small so here is what I think

    TOP
    Gothorita - It traps some foes somewhat well. Never ran into one before so this is mostly theory.
    Linoone - Definition of High risk high reward. It can sweep entire teams but it needs a ridiculous amount of support to do so.
    Sandslash - It's kinda bad but it sometimes gets the job done with Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock. It also beats some Ghost-types fairly easily, such as Rotom, but most of the others do already.
    Whimsicott - It is not D-Rank right now, but I support it dropping down. It accomplishes very little, if not nothing, important at the moment, usually providing only a Stun Spore or maybe a Leech Seed before it dies. It is extremely easy to eliminate from the match and just really doesn't feel like it does much at all right now. It having such a low weight in the usage stats (ie much lower than everything else) also shows that people just are not really sure what to make of Whimsicott at the moment.

    MID
    Articuno - Requires a lot of support for a Pokemon that is supposed to be defensive, but it does... OK against some foes I guess? Offensive set is really niche (ie not great) too.
    Dusknoir - Call me crazy but it is actually a pretty decent spinblocker. It is somewhat unreliable, but a bit more reliable than others at beating Kabutops, and it still beats Cryogonal. Otherwise fairly run-of-the-mill ghost and it is pretty weak.
    Golem - It's pretty good at what it does, but what it does (Custap with STAB QuakeEdge) is very niche and there are a lot of other cutsapers out there.
    Ninjask - It's Ninjask, need I explain?

    LOW
    Audino - What does this thing even do? I'm serious.
    Glalie - Literally the definition of "small niche." Its a spiker that works only in hail for some teams.
    Natu - Well, I mean, if you need Magic Bounce that badly, you got Natu.
  12. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Just popping in to say that I agree with moving Golurk up to Top B-Rank. He's a good SR setter that can set up well for the team. He also can spinblock, even if not that well but overall it can keep opposing spinners at bay with its moves. I love CB Golurk as well, he packs a lot of power that allows him to smash shit like a boss. He is a really good Pokemon overall, definite Top B.

    I also agree with Swamp-Rocket's list, though I'm torn on Whimsicott and Dusknoir could be either Mid or Low D-Rank.

    Also, add Scraggy to Untested. Molk has proven it is viable before.
  13. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Audino happens to play a role similar to Clefable and Lickilicky in RU as a bulky, Normal-type Wishpasser, and although it recieves a ton of competition the two of them in this role, it has some important attributes that help it seperate itself from them and earn itself a spot in D rank, most notably Regenerator. Regenerator is pretty much the perfect ability for a Wishpasser imo (although admittedly, Clefable's Magic Guard is the better ability for a Pokemon overall), allowing Pokemon that have the combination (such as Alomomola) to focus less on using their Wishes to heal themselves and a bit more on healing their teammates, passively recovering a significant amount of health every time they pass a Wish to a teammate. Aside from Regenerator, Audino has other unique traits that help it stand out from Clefable and Lickilicky, having a bigger Wish and more physical bulk than Clefable while having some cool movepool options such as Trick Room and Dual Screens over Lickilicky (as well as the aforementioned Regenerator, which seperates it from both). I'm not really sure where i'd put Audino in D rank at the moment, but these unique traits make me lean towards mid D rank at the moment, although i can understand arguments for both placing it higher and lower.
  14. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    I'm going to disagree with Whimsicott being moved down to D, although the sub seed set is horrific, its other sets do certain things well. Access to Prankster, in combination with taunt and encore make Whimsicott a great switch in to set up sweepers, such as Gallade, Crawdaunt, and Klingklang, as well as stopping lead Smeargle in its tracks (watch out for magic guard), which are good things to have a response to. Whimsicott also has access to priority stun spore and tailwind to stop a fast sweeper from destroying a weakened/slow team and U-turn so it doesn't completely destroy momentum. Whimsicott is also the overall bulkiest prankster user in the tier, only facing competition from Murkrow who can only be bulkier on one side with max investment. Whimsicott is also one of the best three sun setters in the tier, although I personally prefer Liepard or Uxie. Priority Memento gets rid of Whimsicott when it is no longer valuable to your team and allows something else to set up.

    Whimsicott isn't great, but it deserves to be higher than D rank.
  15. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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  16. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium and me <3
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    Hi please don't ignore me (open)
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    Seems I'm developing some sort of tradition in backing ScraftIsTheBest with underrated Fighting-types... last one was Medicham. This one's Scraggy.

    Ok, so just to start off it needs to be said that Molk has gone 25-0 (possibly higher idk) with a Scraggy team on the ladder and comfortably secured himself the #1 spot. Sure Molk's a great battler but he wouldn't reach that high if he were using a liability on his team now would he? So here's why I'm going to nominate Scraggy for Low B Rank.

    There's really not a Pokemon quite like it in RU. Despite its below average stats, I cannot stress enough just how much they don't matter in comparison to its typing (unresisted STAB combination and not half bad defensively), movepool (130 BP STAB move, super effective STAB to kill the Ghosts immune to HJK, two amazing boosting moves, and a solid STAB move that also restores HP) and abilities (all three are brilliant to be honest, but Shed Skin generally has the most utility. Intimidate can help you to set up, whereas the Moxie snowball effect is really cool on paper but sort of not that necessary in practise).

    One thing really has to be said about Scraggy: it is one of the most amazing stallbreakers in the tier. Pokemon such as Alomomola are utter setup fodder who cannot hope to outdamage it with Toxic and Waterfall before Shed Skin and Drain Punch's healing kicks in, especially considering the fish's massive HP stat. Spiritomb's strongest STAB moves are quadruply resisted and Scraggy shrugs off Will-o-Wisp thanks to Shed Skin. Steelix and Slowking are weak to its STAB moves and defensive spreads fail to damage Scraggy enough with their STAB moves, especially considering the boost from Eviolite. Cryogonal instantly folds to one of Scraggy's Fighting-type moves and the defensive spread really cannot damage it enough with Ice Beam, and the damage dealt is just healed off by Drain Punch. Stall's best bet is to try and put Scraggy to sleep, but it's nearly always backed up by a teammate that can deal with Tangrowth / Amoonguss / Lilligant such as Emboar. And even then even putting Scraggy to sleep is unreliable considering Sleep Powder's accuracy and Shed Skin.

    In short, it fairs up really well against Stall, but how about the more common offensive playstyle? This isn't quite as easy for the little reptile considering its going to have to take considerably harder hits while setting up, and even when it has set up a Dragon Dance, at best it can only hope to tie with a mx Speed Sigilyph, or in other words is still outsped by any other Choice Scarf user in the tier. However, offensive teams do not like taking High Jump Kicks at all, so in many cases Scraggy doesn't even need to set up.

    It really is an incredibly unique little Pokemon that can be used as a really solid insurance against stall that is not dead weight against offense either. Not a top tier Pokemon, but its advantages outweigh its disadvantages in my opinion and thus should be placed in Low B Rank.
  17. speed ghilliesniper

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    I'd agree with Golurk to Top B. I'v been using both the Stealth Rock setting tank and the Rock Polish Sweeper and they're both very cool. Being able to spinblock one of the most popular spinners (Sandslash, yea it sucks but it's everywhere on the ladder) is a really cool thing to do, and with the proper EV's you can even survive Kabutops' Waterfall and OHKO back with Earthquake from full health. The Rock Polish set is probably one of my favorite users of the move along side Aggron, being able to break down many offensive teams with just a single turn of set up which isn't that hard thanks to it's excelent typing and good natural bulk. Thanks to Iron Fist Shadow Punch isn't a completely useless STAB like it is with Dusknoir, while it also gives Drain Punch a boost giving Golurk a form of semi reliable recovery.

    On the subject of Magmorter it reminds me a lot of a poor mans Moltres with it's beautiful offensive STAB, ability to dispatch of Slowking, and it's even better type coverage giving it the ability to decimate many stall teams not fully prepared for it. However it's typing, while being one of the best in terms of offensive STABs, leaves much to be desired defensively giving it a nasty Stealth Rock weakness (not as bad as Moltres though, and it shares good offensive synergy with the best offensive spinner in the tier). With paralysis support it destroys offensive teams but without it often times I felt out paced thanks to falling just short of that base 85 benchmark, and also prone to dying faster than I'd like thanks to it's low defense, lack of recovery, and with with Life Orb recoil potentially taking it's tole. But it's definitely a nuke that's going to do some severe damage if it gets in on anything slower, so with all that in mind I think that Top B is actually pretty solid for it with it's ability to decimate stall and bulky offense but requiring more support or packing less power than some other similar mons above it such as Emboar or Moltres.
  18. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    k, updates time! thanks for your comments on the current D rank :).

    Remember that if you disagree with any of the changes here, you can speak up and either get them reversed or the Pokemon moved to a different rank.

    I'm not really sure that Scraggy deserves to be placed in say, low B rank like CherubAgent suggested after testing it out a little bit, but its certainly viable in this meta, and i think Scraggers would fit in nicely in either Mid or Top C rank. Its a really unique and effective offensive threat thats for sure, but like the C rank definition suggests, it does have some significant flaws that hold it back from being in a higher rank. Even though everything else about Scraggy from its abilities to its movepool is simply great, those base stats really do get in the way sometimes. While Scraggy is definitely a threat after a Dragon Dance, its naturally low Speed stat (even lower than Crawdaunt's, although it has a much easier time setting up to make up for it) ensures that its not terribly hard to revenge kill unless it grabs two boosts. Likewise, its base 75 Attack stat makes it somewhat reliant on Hi Jump Kick to take out bulkier opponents, which brings the inherent risk of either missing or getting blocked by Protect and makes it harder for Scraggy to break through bulkier Pokemon who resist the move, such as Amoonguss. Nonetheless, everything CherubAgent said about Scraggy is true, and i think thats more than enough to justify it a place on the list in C rank. Although if more people want me to move it any higher or lower i'd be happy to do so.
  19. Jaiho

    Jaiho haha xD !
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    This may not be on topic of most of the recent discussion, but i think that sceptile should moved to mid S rank. He plays the most interesting mind game from team preview imo, and he has completely different counters for each set. Amoonguss is probably the best counter to the special set, but gets smashed by flying gem or +2 acrobatics, while ferroseed, the best counter to the physical set, hates focus blast, and physical sceptile can even set up on it. The best comparison to sceptile is landorus in OU, and both are nigh uncounterable. Perhaps the only thing stopping sceptile from being top S rank is that accelgor and faster scarfers win 1v1, but they cannot switch in, with accelgor fearing a super effective moves like acrobatics, hp rock or fire, and rock slide, while scarfers like manectric, rotom-c, emboar, and medicham all fear unburden boosts and specific moves.

    Aerodactyl is only a shaky counter, because the life orb set can't OHKO, even if Adamant, but the choice band set can, but only when using stone edge, which is called stone miss for a reason.

    Lastly, Sceptile has a few niche uses, such as subseeding (better that whimsicott), a suicide Focus Sash + endeavor set, a sunny day starter and abuser, and is the best quiverpass recipient imo.

    Overall, i think Sceptile should be solidly in mid S rank, MAYBE top S rank.
    The DragonKnight likes this.
  20. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    I think low s is fine tbh. Really the guessing game of what set it's running is the main reason why it's so dangerous as each set really has it's own set of counters.

    The special set is pretty much countered by any grass type special wall such as Amoonguss or Roselia, as either can cripple it with status or dent it with a Sludge Bomb. It's also checked by many things in the tier that can tank a shot and return fire such as Druddigon.

    The physical set it pretty well countered by many good physical walls such as Ferroseed, Uxie, and Steelix. It also can't afford to set up on any of them, as it risks getting crippled by paralysis by Ferroseed or Uxie, phazed by Steelix, or 2HKO'd by Gyro Ball from either of the Steels. Like the special set it also runs into problems with many tanks who can live and retaliate with a OHKO like Escavalier.

    Both sets are checked quite nicely by most scarfers before an unburden boost, and after the unburden boost it still can't OHKO Emboar with Acrobatics when it lacks the Flying gem boost which means it's still kept in check.

    I don't know where Aerodactyl specifically comes in but it does OHKO if Adamant: 252+ Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sceptile: 285-335 (101.42 - 119.21%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Oh those other sets the Sub Seed is the only really viable one and even it get's stopped hard by Grass types or by Sap Sippers like Bouffalant. A Sash Endeaver gets mauled by any priority or multi hit move from the likes of Cincinno and is generally out classed by a level one FEARgle who also sets up Trick Room and puts things to sleep, guaranteeing maximum disruption of the opposing teams strategy. A Sun setter/ abuser is completely out classed by Lilligant or Exeggutor who can actually use the sun with Chlorophyll. And Quiver passing to it is deadly although there are many things that love the boosts such as Moltres, so really any special attacker can utilize the boosts as well.

    So basically it's S-rank because it's got 2 deadly sets that have wildly different counters, although I would argue whether both sets are uncountable like you said, and I'd even hesitate to say whether it's sets are better than some A rank threats like say Durant ( with its insane power) or Lilligant ( who possesses the best boosting move in the game), but it's the fact it can surprise a counter to one set with another is what makes it S, and the fact that either set isn't always the best at what it does is why it's Low S rank.
  21. Jaiho

    Jaiho haha xD !
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    huh, i guess i typed something wrong into my damage calculator

    In my experience ferroseed chooses to run either double hazards or protect over t-wave, and has a pathetic attack, meaning that gyro balls dont hit very hard, and seed bomb is more common to hit spinners like kabutops and sandslash (lol). steelix hits a bit harder, but sceptile can set up an SD or two, and smash it with EQ, as most people think that sceptile wont stay in. And as you said before, sceptile is all about the guessing game. when ammoonguss or escavalier switch in, they may get hit with a SE acrobatics or hp fire respectively.

    One, i dont think it is fair to compare sceptile to lilligant or durant. they both act as wallbreakers and team sweepers, while sceptile is all about late game. I understand that sceptile does have a fair few counters, but the line between low and mid S rank is fuzzy, and i think the guessing game can put it in mid.
    The DragonKnight likes this.
  22. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Not going to make an update to D rank or anything this time around because there wasn't any discussion on the top/mid/low of it, but i wanted to let you know i've added another Pokemon to Untested, Simipour!

    [​IMG]
    Simipour @ Life Orb
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Grass

    Although the elemental monkeys are widely known for being somewhat mediocre and/or gimmicky, Simipour has the potential to be a potent Special Attacker imo, and has a few traits that seperate it from the other Water-types in RU, most notably Nasty Plot. Nothing's going to enjoy taking a +2 Life Orb Hydro Pump from Simipour, and unlike say Omastar, Simipour has a great initial Speed stat to work with, meaning it can pose a significant threat to faster teams even without a boost. Simipour can also run a SubSalac set effectively (although it recieves some competition from Samurott in this regard), subbing down to Torrent range, activating both the Salac Berry and Torrent, and sweeping. A Choice Specs set is a possibility, as well. Here are some damage calculations so you guys can get a grasp of how powerful +2 Simipour is.

    Show Hide
    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 92+ SpD Cryogonal: 274-324 (79.88 - 94.46%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 324-382 (82.23 - 96.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Slowking: 247-291 (62.84 - 74.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 424-499 (98.14 - 115.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie: 333-394 (94.06 - 111.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 244+ SpD Gallade: 274-325 (80.82 - 95.87%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hidden Power Grass vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 291-343 (72.56 - 85.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    Not everything is good for Simipour, though. While it has the potential to do a huge amount of damage if it can nab a Nasty Plot boost, its frail defenses often make it hard for Simipour to set up in the first place unless the user can manage to force a switch. These same defenses also make Simipour somewhat vulnerable to being picked off by things such as Entei's ExtremeSpeed and Absol's Sucker Punch, making it somewhat harder to sweep outright.

    Anyways, despite those negative points and competition from some other Water-types, i think Simipour might be worth a rank here due to its positive qualities, what do you think?

    EDIT: Also, not totally sure on Sceptile yet, i'll see what some other people say over the next few days or so.
  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest GHOSTS
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    I could agree with moving Sceptile up, it's one of the best cleaners in RU, and it's not hard to see why. Sceptile has solid offensive stats, an insane Special STAB, a great offensive movepool, awesome speed (Scolipede and Cinccino can only wish to be as fast as Sceptile, and that's saying something). Between the physical and special sets, there are close to no counters for Sceptile. As said, Sceptile often forces a guessing game on whether it's running physical or special, which is what makes it even more deadly. Suppose you send in that Roselia hoping to hard counter what you think may be a special Sceptile, only to have her die to an Acrobatics. Or better yet, you send in Ferroseed or Steelix hoping to counter a physical set, but get murdered by Focus Blast. It is obscenely powerful in general, as a LO Leaf Storm or a +2 Leaf Blade is pretty brutal and can really leave a mark. As I said, Sceptile's offensive movepool is awesome, with Focus Blast, Hidden Power, and if you want to even Dragon Pulse if you plan on killing Druddigon, and EQ, Rock Slide, and Acrobatics on the physical. 120 Speed is insane, which means it's outspeeding a shit ton of things, complementing its sweeping potential. Sceptile also fits himself comfortably onto FWG cores, and on any offensive team in general, hence his popularity. I'd say he deserves Mid S, Top S is stretching it, but he fits into Mid S pretty well imo.

    Then again, this is from my personal experience using Sceptile, so feel free to disagree.

    I'll see what's suitable for the remaining D-Rankers:

    Top:

    [​IMG] Sandslash is a generally poor Pokemon, but he is capable of pulling a Rapid Spin off if the opponent doesn't have a Ghost-type and can also use SD+Night Slash to own most Ghosts, although he's still outclassed pretty badly by Kabutops and Cryogonal. He also could run a support set. He's not good, but he's viable in RU.

    Mid:

    [​IMG] Articuno is okay. It's an alright SubRoostToxic staller allowing it to be annoying at times, but it's typing is pretty bad defensively and it lacks power too. It is capable of going offensive, but it's almost completely inferior to Moltres in this regard so I guess Mid D is good.

    [​IMG] Audino has great bulk as well as Regenerator, meaning it can function well as a supportive Pokemon. It has WishTect and Heal Bell (iirc) to support the team while having Regenerator. It is vastly inferior to Mola and Clefable, but its perks are enough to make it worth using on some teams. It also has Trick Room and Healing Wish, which although it is outclassed by Mesprit in this regard, it does it decently which makes it suitable for Mid D.

    [​IMG] Ninjask has a well-known trick; Baton Passing Speed boosts and Swords Dances. This makes Ninjask an incredibly lethal Pokemon in the right hands, as it can pass speed and attack boosts and a Substitute to a physical attacker such as Aggron or Scolipede, and the opponent will be in for a world of pain. Ninjask is useless otherwise though, and can often be a crutch to most teams that don't need the boosts.

    Low:

    [​IMG] Dusknoir is hardly worth being called viable in RU. It is almost completely useless in the tier, as it has no recovery, making it ridiculously easy to wear down. Dusknoir is also extremely weak; its damage output is horrible due to the poor base Power of its moves. This means Dusknoir is setup fodder to the max. Dusknoir is setup bait for SubCM Mesprit and Uxie, as well as QD Lilli, SubSalac Scolipede, SD Absol, and a bunch of others. Almost anything can set up on Dusknoir. Dusknoir is also completely and utterly outclassed by a bunch of Ghost-types, making it hard to justify its use. I almost want to call Dusknoir E-Rank because of how bad it is, but others disagreed with me, so I will submit to their judgement. Either way, this is a Low D at best; it really is bad.

    [​IMG] Natu in general isn't a good Pokemon, but it has a niche. It can Magic Bounce hazards while setting up Screens and u-turning, plus it can be beneficial for Mono Flying or whole teams weak to SR. It also fits itself on VoltTurn. Not good, but it has a small niche.

    Sawk should probably be Mid C-Rank. It packs a great amount of power behind its Close Combat, and can use Mold Breaker EQ to nail Rotom-N. It has solid coverage meaning it can run the punches to nail Amoonguss and Slowking, while it can be a great cleaner with Scarf or a mighty wallbreaker with CB. It faces really stiff competition from other Fighting-types though, but it has a place as a solid offensive threat, so Mid C is reasonable. (Imo Sawk is better than Primeape).

    Serperior looks interesting imo, I'll give it a test run for a few days and I might come back to nominate it.
  24. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Looking at Untested, I have used one of them quite a bit recently, and that one was Weezing. I gave it a go and I'd say it is fit for Mid-C, maaaaybe Top-C though that is pushing it.

    On one hand, it has a great physical bulk and Will-O-Wisp, meaning that it can wall for quite a while. Its immunity to Earthquake and resistance to Fighting makes it one of the best Fighting-type checks around. A set of Will-O-Wisp/Pain Split/Sludge Bomb/Fire Blast or Clear Smog makes for quite a good wall, and it can get past those pesky Steel-types, as well as Bug-types and Grass-types that it resists with Fire Blast or check physical set-up sweepers with Clear Smog. Its immunity to Toxic also helps, and with miscellaneous resistances to Poison, Bug, and Grass, it also can take on foes like SD Sceptile, Scyther, and Escavalier - its bulk allowed me to wall a Druddigon (which it is faster than) that threatened to take on a lot of Pokemon on my team at that time, along with other misc. foes such as Scraggy, which was completely helpless against it.

    On the other hand, it is somewhat prone to being worn down due to its unreliable recovery in Pain Split and it has an atrocious Special Defense. Powerful, Choice Banded hits can take its tool at times, and it cannot break the Substitutes of various Pokemon, mostly SubCMers. It also can take a toll on momentum, as it can allow Pokemon such as Qwilfish to set up Spikes right in your face (unless you run Thunderbolt which is unlikely). Weezing also lacks resistances to most Special Attacks so it just completely folds to them most of the time, unfortunately (unless its Psyshock, which it can take). Finally, it gets destroyed by Slowking, which is annyoing.

    Overall, Weezing has been a decent Pokemon for me. It has often been in the thick of the action when I use it to try to take on various foes such as Hitmonlee. Its a pretty good Physical wall but it fails against a lot of other Pokemon in the tier. It ironically gets a lot of competition from Ghost-types such as Misdreavus, although Weezing isn't set-up fodder as much due to a stronger STAB in Sludge Bomb and Fire Blast taking down some foes that resist or are immune to Sludge Bomb.
  25. WePWNPokemon

    WePWNPokemon

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    I've been playing a bunch of RU recently and honestly Galvantula is such a monster. It has a massive base speed for this tier, great ability and can break through many stall cores with an E-belt. Expert Belt Galvantula is personally my favorite set because of it's amazing moveset and the powerful bluff of specs ofc but choice specs is still a strong set also. Where I am going with this is Galvantula can break through so many teams in this tier and beat the Tangrowth-Slowking regenerator core with ease and I am voting for this spider to be Low A Rank or High B Rank.

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