The RU Viability Ranking Thread

[Molk]

kk, time for updates!

Moved Sceptile up from low S rank ---> mid S rank
Moved Galvantula up from mid B rank ---> top B rank
Moved Bouffalant down from top B rank ---> mid B rank
Added Dusknoir to mid D rank
Added Audino to mid D rank

Pokemon in need of more discussion:

Rotom-F
Glaceon
Walrein
Sawk

About Sawk: I know some people like ScraftyIsTheBest think that Sawk deserves a rank here, but idk, it just seems pretty damn outclassed to me :/. It recieves a ton of competition from many of the other Fighting-types such as Gallade, who hits similarly hard, has a cool secondary STAB, and Swords Dance to boost its Attack even further and just break through the opposing team, Medicham pulls off Choice sers much better for the most part imo, having a good deal of power over Sawk as well as the same secondary STAB as Sawk and access to Trick to get rid of its choice item if needed. Hitmonlee performs better as an all out attacker, even having unburden to pull off a late game sweep. Even Primeape leaves Sawk in the shadows, possessing a higher Speed stat, Vital Spirit, and the ever useful U-turn over it. Mold Breaker might seem like a somewhat cool advantage at first, but looking at the common Pokemon in the tier i dont think Sawk would be able to use Mold Breaker in RU as its able to in NU. With the only two really common Sturdy users being Steelix and Crustle, both of which can survive a hit from even CB Sawk. Not even hitting Rotom with Earthquake is that great, as the other Fighters can take it out with their coverage moves as well. I really dont know, maybe i'm missing something with Sawk, but it just seems really outclassed to me ;-;. Does Sawk have some other advantages over the other Fighting-types aside from Mold Breaker that make it worth using in RU that i haven't noticed?

Also, not going to comment on the placement of the hail Pokemon for now, as i don't really have a strong opinion atm.

 

[DittoCrow]

Sadly, I'm going to have to suggest moving Cryogonal from Mid A Rank to Top B Rank (or even lower). Cryogonal just isn't as effective as it once was. Pursuit Spiritomb and Escavalier are very common, and if Cryogonal doesn't run Defense EVs, it has no way to escape from those two Pokemon. In addition, the metagame is generally more offensive than last year, so there are many physical attackers on most teams that can force Cryogonal out, which sucks because Cryogonal is weak to Stealth Rock. Special attackers like Manectric and Lilligant also have an easier time against a Cryogonal without full Special Defense. Cryogonal also lost its niche to check Nidoqueen in this stage, which reduced its viability even more. It is, however, the second best spinner, so I think somewhere in B Rank is fine, but Mid A Rank is too high for it. Cryogonal just isn't as successful at spinning anymore; it's too well prepared for.

 

[Jaiho]

Looking into the group of Untested Pokemon, Riolu caught my eye, so decided to test it. Riolu is completely capable of sweeping the majority of teams with the right support. However, it probably needs more support than any single other "sweeper" in the tier. It needs one or two hazard setters and a spinblocker, so using Riolu takes up 3-4 team slots. It is also really susceptible to prior damage, such as hazards when switching in and toxic when it is about to roar. It is also easily stopped in its tracks, as pokemon with protect, such as ferroseed, walrein, swellow, snover, zangoose, and every wish user, and fake out, such as kangaskhan and hariyama can break the copycat cycle and force riolu out. Riolu also HATES hail, as the residual damage can rack up, and if one can't get up spike layers, pokemon that resist stealth rock, especially steelix, and regenerators, the very common slowking, amoonguss, tangrowth, and alomomola can stall it out, and riolu would have been rather useless in the match. magic guard users like sigilyph and clefable are literally untouched by the hazards, but can be hurt by riolu carrying crunch and drain punch respectively. So while riolu has many flaws, it has a defining niche, that literally no other pokemon can take, which I think is enough to put it in Low B Rank or Top C Rank.

And on Cryogonal, I think moving it down to Top B Rank is a good move, since a spinner weak to rocks shouldn't really be A rank, and Ice is a terrible defensive typing.

 

[Celever]

Looking into the group of Untested Pokemon, Riolu caught my eye, so decided to test it. Riolu is completely capable of sweeping the majority of teams with the right support. However, it probably needs more support than any single other "sweeper" in the tier. It needs one or two hazard setters and a spinblocker, so using Riolu takes up 3-4 team slots. It is also really susceptible to prior damage, such as hazards when switching in and toxic when it is about to roar. It is also easily stopped in its tracks, as pokemon with protect, such as ferroseed, walrein, swellow, snover, zangoose, and every wish user, and fake out, such as kangaskhan and hariyama can break the copycat cycle and force riolu out. Riolu also HATES hail, as the residual damage can rack up, and if one can't get up spike layers, pokemon that resist stealth rock, especially steelix, and regenerators, the very common slowking, amoonguss, tangrowth, and alomomola can stall it out, and riolu would have been rather useless in the match. magic guard users like sigilyph and clefable are literally untouched by the hazards, but can be hurt by riolu carrying crunch and drain punch respectively. So while riolu has many flaws, it has a defining niche, that literally no other pokemon can take, which I think is enough to put it in Low B Rank or Top C Rank.

And on Cryogonal, I think moving it down to Top B Rank is a good move, since a spinner weak to rocks shouldn't really be A rank, and Ice is a terrible defensive typing.

No, that is being very very generous.

I also built a riolu team a couple of days ago, not for this at all, and riolu is kind of lackluster to be honest. A team must be built around riolu for it to function effectively at all, and the team almost always needs 1-2 more phazers after Riolu dies.
If you manage to play very well and get a substitute up, then you are pretty good, since the main problem with riolu is priority. It just wrecks him. Completely.
RU is not a good meta game for riolu anyway. Magic guard users such as clefable and sigilyph don't even get hurt by it's phazing, and the regenerator users like amoonguss, tangrowth and slowking mean that the hazard damage does not affect them, except in amoonguss' case where if you have 3 layers of spikes and rocks up you do a mighty 6% per switch in. Tangrowth heals himself every switch, even without leftovers and slowking pretty much stays the same.
That is 5 pokemon that aren't hurt at all by it, and 4 of them are very common and viable. Duosion is also not hurt at all, and is pretty handy on trick room teams if you come across them.
Hail is a pain for phazing teams, especially ones that carry poison types to suck up toxic spikes.
Due to the overall ineffectiveness of phazing teams in RU, and the very niche strategy of Riolu, I would say that riolu fits well in top D. However, Low C is also an option.
In my games, drapion usually phazes more effectively anyway.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

I got 2 nominations up and coming - and ironically, both of them are Water-types

[pimg]211[/pimg]

I would like nominate Qwilfish to Top A. In my opinion, Qwilfish doubles up as both one of the best physical walls and best spike users in the tier. Spikes are excellent in the metagame at the moment, and Kabutops and Cryogonal both struggle to stop it from laying down hazards. It can easily set up spikes in the face of dangerous Pokemon such as Entei, Emboar, Escavalier, Durant, almost all Fighting-types, and more while neutering them with Thunder Wave, while being able to set up on literally almost every wall. Combined with a semi-reliable recovery move, a great STAB move for mono-type coverage, and more, makes Qwilfish one of the most useful utility, and arguably the best hazard layer in the tier, something that I think is deserving of Top A. I know I don't have a wall of text or something, but Qwilfish is straightforward, which is another good thing about it.
[pimg]62[/pimg]

Unfortunately, I think Poliwrath should be dropped from Mid A to Top B or lower. Poliwrath is not really amazing at the moment. It's main issue is a lack of reliable recovery and a vulnerability to a lot of top threats, including Slowking, Sceptile, Moltres, and a few others. Despite having some nice resistances, overall it can't utilize them to the fullest, as it can only wall the Pokemon, phaze it out, or fish for a Scald burn/use Toxic. Not bad, but relying on Resttalk is a horrible idea in this metagame, meaning it can easily get worn down while asleep, and possibly set up on. With the rise of physical attackers that plow through it (Druddigon comes to mind) and a rise of other Bulky Waters such as Slowking, Qwilfish (which packs most of the same resistances bar Rock and the uncommon Dark while being weak to Ground unlike Wrath), and even Alomomola, I believe Poliwrath is only notable nowadays for all its resistances and ability to phaze, lacking other supporting skills of alternative options, and that doesn't seem A-tier to me.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Unfortunately I'm going to have to agree with DC, I have had a lot of difficulty finding a teamslot for Cryogonal these days. Escavalier has been popping up lately, as has Spiritomb, and overall it's easy to deal with. It's not as good especially after Nidoqueen has left the tier, in general making it less useful. I haven't had a lot of trouble with my hazards even when the opponent has Cryo either; my go-to spiker these days is Scolipede, who murders Cryo with Megahorn. Either way, I agree with demoting Cryo, but I think Top B is the best place for Cryo, since he still does well at spinning.

I agree with Swamp-Rocket on Qwilfish; it's just so damn useful in this metagame. Its access to Spikes makes it a great asset to teams to lay needed hazards, and its typing and Intimidate allows it to check many of the prominent threats such as Entei, Escavalier, and Emboar, making it a needed asset to teams in need of a way to check those. It also has some very cool support options such as Haze, Taunt, and Thunder Wave. For all these reasons Qwilfish fits very comfortably into FWG cores, let alone teams themselves. It also has a decently powerful Waterfall so it isn't a sitting duck either, which is a plus for sure. It's definitely looking Top A-Rank to me.

I'm on the fence in regards to Poliwrath. He still has great bulk and checks a lot of prominent threats such as Escavalier, Entei, and the likes. He's a strong physical wall that can shuffle with Circle Throw and burn with Scald. It sucks that he has no recovery, but he's still a great wall. I dunno about this one, I'm just really torn.

Riolu to Low C imo. It can win the game for you with significant support. Not that great, but proper teambuilding and playing makes sure Riolu gives you a win condition.

 

[Jaiho]

No, that is being very very generous.

I also built a riolu team a couple of days ago, not for this at all, and riolu is kind of lackluster to be honest. A team must be built around riolu for it to function effectively at all, and the team almost always needs 1-2 more phazers after Riolu dies.
If you manage to play very well and get a substitute up, then you are pretty good, since the main problem with riolu is priority. It just wrecks him. Completely.
RU is not a good meta game for riolu anyway. Magic guard users such as clefable and sigilyph don't even get hurt by it's phazing, and the regenerator users like amoonguss, tangrowth and slowking mean that the hazard damage does not affect them, except in amoonguss' case where if you have 3 layers of spikes and rocks up you do a mighty 6% per switch in. Tangrowth heals himself every switch, even without leftovers and slowking pretty much stays the same.
That is 5 pokemon that aren't hurt at all by it, and 4 of them are very common and viable. Duosion is also not hurt at all, and is pretty handy on trick room teams if you come across them.
Hail is a pain for phazing teams, especially ones that carry poison types to suck up toxic spikes.
Due to the overall ineffectiveness of phazing teams in RU, and the very niche strategy of Riolu, I would say that riolu fits well in top D. However, Low C is also an option.
In my games, drapion usually phazes more effectively anyway.

c'mon, isn't that a little too much to ask for, to beat quite possibly the Top 5 best defensive pokemon in the whole metagame, when it can literally beat anything without priority? With max speed and a beneficial nature, it can outspeed both hitmonchan and absol not running max speed, which they commonly don't. A more defensive spread is deceptively bulky, and can take neutral STAB moves fairly well, and proceed to start the roar/copycat shenanigans. And Riolu isn't a one-man team. he isn't meant to sweep from turn one. Druddigon in particular can start phazing immediately after setting up stealth rocks with dragon tail, and paralyze priority users so riolu can outrun. So yes it needs support, a lot of it too, but take a look at the description for the C rank.


"Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being top tier threats. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be as effective as higher ranked Pokemon in RU. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."


Riolu has a very notable niche.
It has notable flaws as well.
It requires a lot of support, more than most teams have to offer.
BUT, no other pokemon, in ANY tier can say they can take Riolu's place easily, as no pokemon can phaze as easily as he can.

I think this is enough to put it in the upper C range

 

[Punchshroom]

While RU isn't as priority savvy than NU, the aforementioned Magic Guard and Regenerator pokemon are used commonly enough to weaken Riolu's devastating potential. There's also the fact that Hail is in the tier, meaning Riolu is pretty much put on a timer. So I have to deal with Magic Guard users (Sigilyph and Clefable), Regenerators (Amoonguss, Tangrowth and Slowking), opposing Pranksters (pretty much just Whimsicott), 2 damn good spinners amongst a total of 4, Toxic Spikes, faster priority (less common), Hail, and of course the issue in getting that first Roar, all at once? I'm a seasoned Riolu user and even I can see that RU can be pretty harsh for Riolu. It can work under the right conditions, but it is trickier to pull off in RU. However like celever said, Riolu still has a shot at low C, which is up for debate.

 

[august]

Walrein -> Mid C: Walrein is extremely overrated. It's definitely not "one of the most threatening" Hail mons; most of the best Hail teams don't use it, preferring some combination of Glaceon/Rotom-F/Cryogonal/Jynx and then stuff like Spiritomb/Slowking/Uxie/Druddigon/Poliwrath/Escavalier to cover the weaknesses. Walrein absolutely does not belong in B.

Are you serious? Walrein isn't overrated at all. Infact i'd venture to say that walrein is underrated. Walrein is by far the superior sub ice body user since it takes hits considerably better than glaceon etc from both sides of the spectrum. Walrein is also good offensively, the Choice Scarf set is an excellent revenge killer that gets Water-type STAB in Surf (and Brine to pick off weakened mons) as well as a surprise factor.

Walrein should stay where it is. C rank is ridiculous for what is probably the best hail abuser in the tier.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Nominating Drapion for C-Rank

Drapion is pretty bad in this metagame if you ask me. Drapion suffers from having an alright Attack stat at best while his moves suffer from low Base Power and poor coverage overall. Drapion is a mediocre and outclassed offensive Pokemon and there are better options for every role it performs. Drapion's SD set, for one, is outclassed by the faster Scolipede. Scolipede packs a much stronger STAB move in Megahorn, which hurts Psychic-types while packs overall better power and coverage. Scolipede is also much faster. Yeah. 95 to 112 Speed is a huge leap, and Scolipede actually outspeeds most of the metagame while it hits much harder, leaving Drapion in the shadows in that role. Absol is also much better as a Swords Dancer due to him packing much more power and has priority and Superpower to be significantly more threatening than Drapion ever was. Drapion can function as a Pursuit trapper, but Spiritomb, Absol, and Escavalier are better options, with Escavalier's Pursuit hitting as hard as Drapion's, in fact. Escavalier is also much more threatening in general with CB Megahorn, Spiritomb sports a more useful defensive typing and although he is only as strong and has a pathetic Ghost STAB, he can put Psychic-types in a bad position between those moves, and also is immune to Normal and Fighting. Then there's Absol, who is much more threatening, packs more power, and puts Psychics in a bad position as well, which leaves Drapion in the shadows. Drapion can run a Specially Defensive set, but its lack of reliable recovery really lets it down, as well as the fact that it can't set up on many Pokemon outside of maybe Mesprit and Sigilyph, and in general it isn't very useful. It's a sad fall from grace, but Drapion is no longer good in RU. I think it should go down to C-Rank, because it is mediocre and sorely outclassed.

 

[Molk]

Time for some updates!

Rotom-F down from low A rank ----> top B rank

Cryogonal down from mid A rank -----> top B rank

Qwilfish up from mid A rank -----> top A rank

Added Riolu to top D rank

Pokemon in need of more discussion:

Walrein
Poliwrath
Drapion

While i'm updating, i'd also like to suggest moving Ferroseed up to Mid B rank. I honestly really, really like Ferroseed in the current metagame, and its really weird to imagine there was a time where i'd constantly bash it for being useless, because tbh i often find Ferroseed to be a great Spiker as of late. Ferroseed's great Grass/Steel typing and good mixed bulk gives it plenty of opportunities to set up Spikes, and i often find myself with at least two layers of Spikes down at the end of every match if my opponent lacks a spinner of some form. Even then, perhaps one of Ferroseed's most important qualities is that it actually matches up really, really well against all of the Rapid Spinners, something a bunch of hazard setters would die for. It pretty much hard counters Kabutops bar Superpower, can take repeated Ice Beams from Cryogonal and can OHKO with Gyro Ball in return, and can beat Sandslash by repeatedly using Leech Seed on it. (even if Sandslash spins away the leech seed i can just re seed it again, plus, Iron Barbs makes sure Rapid Spinning comes at a cost regardless, and because slash has no form of recovery Ferroseed wins here). Outside of Spike setting, Ferroseed makes a great check to many common RU Pokemon such as Feraligatr, Druddigon (watch out for Flamethrower/Fire Punch), Cinccino, Hidden Power Rock Lilligant, Omastar, Crawdaunt (needs Seed Bomb), Rhydon, and Aggron. It also makes a great paralysis spreader with Thunder Wave, especially because many of the Pokemon that are actually capable of taking out Ferroseed are very vulnerable to the move, and it can wear down defensive Pokemon such as Steelix and Regirock with Leech Seed, sapping away their Hp while either healing itself or a teammate in the process. All in all, i really think Ferroseed's a pretty good Pokemon in this metagame, and i'd really like to see it in mid B rank, thoughts on this?

 

[WePWNPokemon]

Poliwrath should not be Mid A anymore. It is checked/Countered my so many common Pokemon in the Metagame (Tangrowth, Rotom-C, Slowking, Uxie, Mesprit, Qwilfish and basically any grass type). It can easily be revenge killed by Sceptile, Lilligant ad Rotom-C which are very common. Poliwrath isn't as good as it used to be it seems like. So I think it should drop from Mid-A to Top B. It just doesn't have enough power as it used to.

About Ferroseed, I completely agree with Molk as it should go to Mid B. As Molk explained it can literally just wall some of the hardest hitters in the tier and on top of that it can get up hazards reliably. I'm not too sure about Walrein beacuse I play on PO and don't like weather lol.

 

[august]

Poliwrath doesn't need to have power though. All of the pokemon you mentioned would certainly not enjoy a Scald burn, and Rotom-c / tile / lilli don't even like coming into Circle Throw, especially with hazards. Wrath is Mid A arguably because it does what it does really well, which is being a physically defensive monster capable of taking hits and easily Resting them off thanks to unique typing etc

 

[New Breed]

Agreeing with august, while Poliwrath does give plenty of switch ins into many dangerous Pokemon it has access to Circle Throw to just phase them back out and rack up hazard damage or just straight out burn them with Scald. It's easily on of the best physical walls in the tier and its decent special defence is just another bonus.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I agree with New Breed and august, Poliwrath is still an A-Rank Pokemon imo. He walls many physical attackers including but not limited to Emboar, Entei, Escavalier, Durant, Hitmonlee, Absol, Kabutops, and more. He's also really hard to switch into thanks to his rage-inducing Scald and phazing in Circle Throw. His phazing also allows him to rack up hazard damage, allowing your sweeper to have an easier time sweeping. Definitely A imo.

I'd say Walrein also needs to stay where he is, he's far too good to go down. He can turn the tide of the match in just one turn, becoming a complete bitch to take down. He can just sit there and spam Sub and Protect while hail and toxic damage take their toll. As said, Scarf Walrein is a great Blizzspammer, and he has Water STAB to stand out and also handle threatening Fire-types. Keep Walrein where it is, its dependence on hail prevents it from being A or S, but Top B is perfect.

I agree with moving Ferroseed up, Molk explained it all. If Roselia can make it to Mid B, so can Ferroseed.

Drapion definitely imo is C at best, it's pretty bad in this meta.

 

[atomicllamas]

Drapion is pretty mediocre as an offensive pokemon in the current meta, however, it is an excellent bulky phaser on stall teams with excellent defensive typing (great synergy with spin blockers like Misdreavous or Rotom-N.) It also has access to t-spikes (this set is usable with Nidoqueen gone) and a decently quick taunt. This is also an awesome pokemon for hail teams to provide t-spikes without adding to there weaknesses. 70/110/75 defenses are pretty good especially with investment and only one weakness. Low B might be to high for Drapion, (definitely is for offensive sets), but Drapion deserves at least high C due to a great movepool, great typing, and pretty decent stats.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

I'd like to oppose Drapion being brought down. While its offensive sets are horribly outclassed, it has several niches as a defensive Pokemon.

Like atomicllamas said, Drapion has access to Toxic Spikes and a fast Taunt. Toxic Spikes are now much more viable without Nidoqueen jumping around, and Drapion happens to be one of the best RU Pokemon to set it up. Drapion's fast Taunt allows it to avoid status moves as well as Taunt which prevents opposing stallbreakers from doing their job, while at the same time functioning as an amazing stallbreakers for defensive teams, which other walls cannot do. It can also phaze, unlike the likes of Clefable and Uxie, and is the only special wall in RU able to do so (unless you want to use Lickilicky or Munchlax). Poliwrath is probably the only other wall able to do so. Drapion's good typing also prevents it from being Toxic'd unlike the lake guardians who have to rely on Heal Bell. Finally, the thing that separates it the most from ther special walls is its ability to deal large damage back. While other walls have to rely on Seismic Toss and Toxic, Drapion has a decent base 90 Attack stat to do decent amounts of damage to the opponent. These benefits should keep Drapion from dropping to C imo, but its flaws, namely having inferior defensive stats and a lack of reliably recovery, keep it from rising from B-

Absolutely agree with Ferroseed in mid-B for reasons stated above. Same goes for Walrein in top B and Poliwrath in Mid-A.

 

[august]

Im not opposed to Drapion being C rank. His offensive sets are pretty outclassed (although i will admit that i have had success with Swords Dance / Crunch / Earthquake / Poison Jab under dual screens) by pretty much everything... his niche is really setting up Toxic Spikes for more defensive teams i guess. The other defensive Toxic Spikes setters like Qwilfish and Roselia are both weak to Psychic, so generally if im using Drapion its to:

a) set up Tspikes
b) absorb tspikes
c) give added insurance against psychic mons like sub cm uxie, mesprit, and the legendary cosmic power sigilyph.

so yeah i agree Drapion definitely has some niches and can be used on some teams, most of the time there re other options (especially offensively). C rank looks good

 

[Molk]

Yeah Drapion's been pretty mediocre for me as of late, and i havent really had that much trouble with opposing ones either to be honest (a CB drap couldnt KO my 60% uxie with Pursuit as i was switching out >.>). Offensively i'd much rather use the other Dark-types available in the tier such as Absol, Crawdaunt, and even Scraggy (+1 HJK hitting harder than +2 crunch is lol) over Drap, and as a pure Pursuit trapper i'd rather use Absol, Spiritomb, or Escavalier in the current meta (Escavalier's Pursuit is about as strong as drap's even without STAB lol). As scorpdestroyer and august mentioned before me, Drapion does have a cool niche as a specially defensive Toxic Spiker that can deal with common Psychic-types as well, but even then it suffers from a lack of reliable recovery and a lack in any real special bulk :/, most of Drapion's special walling capabilities come from its typing, not its stats, and it really ends up folding to the majority of neutral special moves, so it can't really be relied on as your only wall.

Anyways, overall i think Drapion would fit fine in Top C rank, although if players think the defensive set is enough to keep it in low B rank thats fine as well.

I'd also like to nominate Regirock for any spot in B rank, whether it be top, mid or low.
.

Regirock is a pretty underrated defensive Pokemon in my opinion, it has absolutely amazing defensive stats, having the absolute highest physical bulk in the whole game (even beating out Steelix!) and its special bulk isn't too shabby either, especially with some investment. Regirock is one of the sturdiest Stealth Rock setters i've ever used, it can take pretty much any hit that isn't something like a Sceptile Leaf Storm from full HP (it can actually take a Life Orb Giga Drain from Sceptile though lol) and use it as an opportunity to set up the dreaded rocks. Furthermore, Regirock's typing lets it serve as a great check to many of the tiers top threats such as Entei, Moltres (this is really important, other than Lanturn its like the only Pokemon that can do this in RU lol), Sigilyph, and Cinccino (watch out for repeated Bullet Seeds), giving it even more opportunities to set up. This same bulk and typing makes Regirock wonderful at spreading paralysis as well, often being able to paralyze two or three Pokemon before going down. Nidoqueen's rise to UU is great for Regirock as well, leaving it with one less counter to really have to worry about. I think Regirock is a pretty awesome Pokemon overall in the new meta, and while it does have its flaws, i think these positives are enough to earn it a spot in B rank, not exactly sure where though..

 

[Spork]

Cryo for low A? It's the best spinner in my opinion, with the ability to wall most special attackers and kill most spinblockers (save for banded tomb). I've found it to be the pillar of many teams I've used and it's definitely highly capable.

Amoonguss is pretty poor. It barely does anything except sleep and tends to just sit there and slowly die (or quicky, considering its honestly fairly average bulk and metagame-irrelevant resistances). Double powder is a decent set but I honestly see no good reason to use it over Tangrowth.

 

[Molk]

Amoonguss is pretty poor. It barely does anything except sleep and tends to just sit there and slowly die (or quicky, considering its honestly fairly average bulk and metagame-irrelevant resistances). Double powder is a decent set but I honestly see no good reason to use it over Tangrowth.

I dont really have a strong opinion on Amoonguss at the moment so idrk if it should be moved down or not, but i disagree with some of the points made here.

For example, i really wouldn't say Amoonguss's resistances are exactly metagame irrelevant, i'd actually say they're quite good for the current RU metagame (or really any metagame in general tbh lol). Grass, Electric, Water, and Fighting are all really important attacking types in RU, and because of Amoonguss's bulk and access to Regenerator it makes a great check to Pokemon that use them, being able to switch in and out again and again. Some examples of common Pokemon that use these moves that amoonguss can check include Hitmonlee, Rotom-C, Sceptile, Lilligant, Feraligatr, Ludicolo, Omastar, Lanturn, Galvantula, and regular Rotom. Amoonguss's immunity to Poison and ability to absorb Toxic Spikes are important in its role as a defensive pokemon as well.

Secondly i really wouldn't say Amoonguss's bulk is average, from my experience it has the ability to survive some really powerful moves, then simply passively recover them off later thanks to Regenerator, i mean 70/80 isnt super high, but the 114 Hp really makes up for it! Especially with the resistances i mentioned previously.

As an example of just how bulky Amoonguss is, heres a cool calc:

Hide

252+ SpA Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 356-422 (82.4 - 97.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I know you shouldn't really be keeping Amoonguss in on Glaceon in the first place, but the fact that Mushroom can actually take a Blizzard from it at full HP is pretty impressive, especially considering Amoonguss is weak to the move and Glaceon's Special Attack stat is absolutely massive.

As for competition with Tangrowth....i think they play slightly different roles and check/counter different pools of Pokemon, and one doesn't really outclass the other. For example, Amoonguss is easily the better counter to Lilligant and Special Sceptile because of its much higher special bulk, access to STAB Sludge bomb, 4x resist to grass type moves, and resistance to Focus Blast. Tangrowth can't really reliably check either of these Pokemon, but Amoonguss can beat them no problem. While tangrowth does better against Kabutops and a few other physical attackers due to its much higher physical bulk (amoonguss is still a cool kabutops check, but it struggles against boosted Life Orb Stone Edge).

As i mentioned, i'm not really opposed to moving Amoonguss down at the moment, but i just wanted to point these things out before people bandwagon or something.

 

[vyomov]

I agree with the proposal for Regirock, but before deciding the rank would like to see some logs of somebody using it so that we can determine where it goes.

 

[august]

disagree with cryo to low a. kabutops is definitely a much better spinner than cryo and isn't weak to stealth rock and can actually beat p much every spin blocker. the only real advantage cryo has is vs hail and that isn't a big enough advantage imo to bring it to a rank

amoongus can stay where it is. it has the added bonus over tangrowth of being able to absorb toxic spikes which is always nice. while it doesn't pack the massive defense stat that tangrowth does, it resists fighting and does much better against the specially inclined grass-types like sceptile and lilligant

 

[Molk]

Okayyyy, time to update!

Moved Drapion down from low B rank ---> top C rank
Moved Ferroseed up from low B rank ---> mid B rank

Pokemon in need of more discussion, there are the Pokemon i'd like to see posts about:

Poliwrath
Amoonguss
Cryogonal
Regirock

Happy Posting! :) I'll probably edit my post with something else later.

 

[ss234]

Proposing mola for low / mid a.

1) It takes on a huge amount of physical attackers. Entei, emboar, absol, durant(with scald) and even CB druddigon are countered by alomomola. These are huge threats to consider and being able to counter all of them is a great asset.

2) Wish support allows it to support its team with huge 250 odd HP wishes. This makes it a great team player, and also means it has reliable recovery.

3) Regenerator means that mola is incredibly hard to wear down and also gives recovery without even using a move. This allows you to focus on passing wishes to other team members as well, which is great.

The only reason it isn't A already is because it allows some grass types such as lilligant in for free, but considering regenerator and the fact that mola can pass wishes to pokes such as druddigon that can continually counter these pokes mola doesn't allow pokes in for free as nearly as much as people think. Toxic and protect also allows mola to strip a bit of HP off of incoming mola counters, so it's not like it has nothing to hit mola counters / checks with.