Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

atomicllamas

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About typing, Swamp-Rockets post about Quagsire implied its typing is redundant with Poliwrath because it resists rock, my point was that they aren't redundant because Quagsire's typing supplies it with less weaknesses, and an immunity. You also talked about how it certain mons have ways to get around Quagsire (HP Grass Manectric), but that's usually obvious when they switch them in (forcing switches is a good thing in a stealth rock meta).

4- SpA Entei Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 236-280 (59.89 - 71.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I was talking about the curse set (252HP/252+ SpD).

curse sucks simply. requires massive team support to work, and even with it, quag probably fails cause it's horrible.
Have you used the curse set? If you haven't then I believe that my evaluation of its abilities is more useful than yours, because I have. Of course it requires support (although massive is a hyperbole), I even pointed out that it needs team support (things with grass type moves as well as toxic users removed and something to take grass type moves). That being said, teams that have their Quagsire checks removed (usually 1-3 mons) will sit there as it slowly boosts up and then eats the rest of your team. Does any boosting sweeper not require support? Your argument is pretty nonconstructive, if you think it sucks please articulate why.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being top tier threats. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be as effective as higher ranked Pokemon in RU. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
Yes, Quagsire is undoubtedly C. And I agree there are many reasons to choose other bulky waters over Quagsire, but unaware, recover, and curse give it enough of a niche to stay where it is. It should remain high C as the only pokemon in the tier with Unaware (notable niche) and its biggest flaw is that it faces lots of competition with in its type, that's not even really a flaw (obviously there are other flaws, but this is the one being brought up the most).
 
Mesprit for Low or Mid A

With Nidoqueen leaving there leaves more room for a special wall breaker, and that room has been filled by Mesprit. Mesprit has fantastic coverage, well rounded stats, has a pretty darn easy time setting up, has U-Turn for momentum, and makes a great late-game cleaner. It really only has trouble against Pokemon that resist Psychic and have reasonable special defense (Spiritomb, Escavalier, and Gallade come to mind), but those Pokemon are quite limited and it can always spam U-Turn. The Specs set can just use its immediate power to break through switch ins letting you clean up late game much easier, and with a reasonable speed, it can sweep with one of its coverage moves. The CM set can make a great set-up sweeper, and really abuses Mesprit's coverage. It can also run a support set thanks to its nice movepool, can set Trick Rooom nicely since it's very uncommon when you have Slowking in the tier, or you can even run a Physical set since most counters are special walls. I really think its versatility, raw power, and sweeping potential are enough to get Mesprit at least Low A Rank.
 

EonX

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Ok, in order of experience I have with these Pokemon:

Scolipede: I don't have a lot of experience with this thing, but it is one of the better offensive Spikers in the tier. It's faster than Smeargle, has more bulk than Accelgor, and has comparable power to Accelgor (and obviously much more power than Smeargle lol) The SD set is pretty neat since it can run EQ and/or Aqua Tail to hammer physical walls such as Qwilfish and Steelix hard. (this also lets it beat Fire-types which is a plus) I can't say much for SubSalac as I've never used that set (or played against it) so I'll reserve the right to praise or bash it later. For now, I'd go with Top B with pending of using the SubSalac set to determine for sure.

Sandslash: Agreeing with the move to Mid D as the offensive nature of the metagame really hurts Sandslash. While Hitmonchan may not be an amazing spinner either, it at least has solid offensive coverage and priority going for it. When you're weak to Water- and Grass-type moves with Slowking being the top RU Pokemon in usage with Sceptile 3rd in usage, you know you better have some redeeming qualities and Sandslash just doesn't have many (if any)

Mesprit: I know a lot of you guys were waiting for me to talk about this. As many of you know, I love Mesprit in the current metagame. Its coverage is fantastic right now as the top 3 Pokemon in usage are all weak to BoltBeam and Mesprit can actually switch into 2 of them with pretty decent consistency (Slowking and Sceptile) Honestly, I feel its Choice Specs set is its best set currently. It really has everything a Choice user could dream of. If Rotom-C has taught us anything, its that a Levitating Choice user is fantastic with U-turn or Volt Switch and accompanying coverage. Well, guess what? Mesprit has that. It's also the best offensive check to Gallade and Slowking imo, which is a huge boon for it. If you don't need immediate power, Mesprit can utilize CM very effectively with its base 105 Special Attack (and Special Defense) and great coverage. If full coverage isn't needed on the set, you can even drop Ice Beam for added protection from revenge killers, status, etc. in Substitute, thus making the set more versatile. However, one thing that Lunatic Lies failed to go into detail with is Mesprit's support movepool. It's amazing. The main gem is Healing Wish and it's very effective on a Scarf set. Once Mesprit has revenge killed everything it has to, it can simply waltz in late and use Healing Wish to bring back an important team member to win the match (sweeper) or save the match (wall) It has other support moves such as Trick Room, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, and Stealth Rock. They all may seem outclassed by Uxie, but Mesprit's offensive stats and access to Healing Wish ensure that the pixie doesn't get outclassed. Although not really advised due to the lower base power of the moves, Mesprit can go physical as it has physical alternatives to every special move it commonly uses. Finally, there's the Hail factor. Again, like Samurott, one may not think Mesprit fits well with Hail teams, but it provides a solid offensive response to Fighting-types. And, oh by the way, it can learn Blizzard and beats common SR users such as Druddigon and Golurk. I feel Mesprit's versatility, wallbreaking power, sweeping potential, ability to check top threats without losing offensive momentum/pressure, and supporting abilities combine to make it Mid A, though I guess Low A would be good enough if others think that Mid A is pushing it.
 
About typing, Swamp-Rockets post about Quagsire implied its typing is redundant with Poliwrath because it resists rock, my point was that they aren't redundant because Quagsire's typing supplies it with less weaknesses, and an immunity. You also talked about how it certain mons have ways to get around Quagsire (HP Grass Manectric), but that's usually obvious when they switch them in (forcing switches is a good thing in a stealth rock meta).



I was talking about the curse set (252HP/252+ SpD).



Have you used the curse set? If you haven't then I believe that my evaluation of its abilities is more useful than yours, because I have. Of course it requires support (although massive is a hyperbole), I even pointed out that it needs team support (things with grass type moves as well as toxic users removed and something to take grass type moves). That being said, teams that have their Quagsire checks removed (usually 1-3 mons) will sit there as it slowly boosts up and then eats the rest of your team. Does any boosting sweeper not require support? Your argument is pretty nonconstructive, if you think it sucks please articulate why.



Yes, Quagsire is undoubtedly C. And I agree there are many reasons to choose other bulky waters over Quagsire, but unaware, recover, and curse give it enough of a niche to stay where it is. It should remain high C as the only pokemon in the tier with Unaware (notable niche) and its biggest flaw is that it faces lots of competition with in its type, that's not even really a flaw (obviously there are other flaws, but this is the one being brought up the most).
Curse quagsire is actually rlly bad, seeing as it loses one of the moveslots it really needs to do anything watsoever against grass types, and although I haven't used it I wouldn't want to use it, because it loses to every single grass type in the tier. A lot of set-up sweepers do require support yes, but none of them to the same extent of curse quagsire, as it needs every grass type removed(how you do that idk)as well as any poke with a grass type move-think subcm giga drain uxie etc. It is also a total crit magnet. Idk rlly care about where quag goes because I don't have a huge amount of experience with it, but the curse set rlly is very bad. Mid c seems ok because it does have a decent niche, and it can be good I guess-it's just mostly outclassed by poliwrath and alomomola as water type physical walls.

On another note, magmortar should stay in b rank. It's simply too slow in this metagame-outspeed by moltres, entei, sceptile, rotom-c, or it can't do anything much to the common slower, bulky pokes-think slowking, uxie, druddigon and the like. I get that it can beat stall / hail almost singlehandedly, but against fast offensive teams it rlly isn't that good, and a lot of these slower / hail teams carry pokes such as regirock / specially defensive druddigon to beat moltres / other fire types so often isn't even that useful. A rank is for pokes with few flaws and multiple stengths, and magmortar has a lot of flaws(slow, not bulky enough on the physical side, sr weak, takes damage from common moves such as eq and scald). It's advantages are that it is a good wallbreaker and is rather strong vs. hail, but that doesn't really scream out as a poke that should always pull its weight watever type of team it's up against e.g. zangoose can be useful against all kinds of teams(especially good against balance / stall), while magmortar is only really good against slower teams and hail, not good against offense where pokemon like sd kabutops and cb entei quickly demolish it.
 

Molk

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time for updates!

Current Updates said:
Hitmonchan up from mid C rank ---> top C rank
Quagsire down from top C rank ---> mid C rank
Sandslash down from top D rank ---> mid D rank

Pokemon in need of more discussion:

Scyther
Kabutops
Mesprit
Scolipede
Magmortar
I'll edit this post later with some of my opinions if i remember to do so, good discussion guys! :>
 

Kushalos

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I'm not quite sure why Amoonguss is not A Rank >.>. It has the rare Spore at it's disposal, not to mention a good typing to take on all the other grasstypes in the tier and the always annoying Regenerator. Please consider moving the mushroom up.
 
I'm not quite sure why Amoonguss is not A Rank >.>. It has the rare Spore at it's disposal, not to mention a good typing to take on all the other grasstypes in the tier and the always annoying Regenerator. Please consider moving the mushroom up.
Sleep isn't all that rare in RU, and because of that, there are many Pokemon that carry the move Sleep Talk and are specifically built to counter Grass-types. Amoonguss also has a lot of competition in the tier and isn't always that effective because of its limited coverage in Giga Drain / Hidden Power / Clear Smog or Sludge Bomb. Amoonguss isn't too difficult to deal with, but it's a very solid defensive mon. It's close to A Rank though, which is why it's just Top B Rank.
 
Sleep isn't all that rare in RU, and because of that, there are many Pokemon that carry the move Sleep Talk and are specifically built to counter Grass-types. Amoonguss also has a lot of competition in the tier and isn't always that effective because of its limited coverage in Giga Drain / Hidden Power / Clear Smog or Sludge Bomb. Amoonguss isn't too difficult to deal with, but it's a very solid defensive mon. It's close to A Rank though, which is why it's just Top B Rank.
Pretty much everything he said, but I'd like to add it's poison typing doesn't do it many favors either. He's now weak to Psychic moves which are more common in RU than OU just like sleep is, and it makes him a shakier counter/check to Pokemon with STAB ground moves, unlike Tangrowth and Rotom-C.
 
I think that Vileplume should be considered for a tier because even though it might be viewed as outclassed by Ammonguss defensively, it is actually quite good offensively as it's STAB is only resisted by poison and steel which are uncommon for the most part. Vileplume also has more bulk than other grass/poison sweepers which allows it to compensate for its slow speed(though it still has to be careful of fire types) Vileplumes STAB is also good for breaking past regenator cores being super effective against all of them except ammonguss and outspeeding them all. I think these traits make Vileplume a pokemon to consider putting on the list as it is surprisingly effective at being a bulky sweeper that can break past annoying regenator cores.

Nominating Tauros from A- to A tier.

Tauros is so underated in this metagame. Rock Climb hits almost all that doesn't resist it hard, and it has Fire Blast and Earthquake to blast through Rock- and Steel-types. Rotom and Spiritomb can be issues, as can Misdreavus. But a standard Tauros can rip apart a team easily if the good ghosts are out of the picture. Thoughts?
I agree with this. I'm finding Tauros to be so good right now as it is fast and 1HKO's glass cannon offensive threats and outspeeding them. Zen headbutt brings a great surprise factor against fighting types and easily 1HKO's them. All in all a really good pokemon that needs more usage.
 

atomicllamas

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Yeah, I'm gonna agree that Amoonguss is fine where it is, and has to many flaws to be regarded as an A rank mon.

I am also going to second the motions that Scyther move down to top C, it is by no means a bad pokemon, but unfortunately the fact that it is 4x stealth rock weak and has okay at best synergy with the two best spinners in the tier kind of hinder it. This also means that U-turn is no longer a viable move, because even though it is a great scouting move, it will probably lose 50% of its health switching back in. As a swords dance sweeper, it faces competition from stuff like Scoli, Gallade, and Kabutops, who all can do it better, while also faking being something else. Scyther's only real niche is a bulky Swords dance passer with a move-set of Swords Dance/Baton Pass/Roost/STAB of Choice with 248 HP/8 Atk/252+ speed. And even this faces competition from Scoli. High C in my opinion.

For reasons previously stated, Mesprit should move up to low/mid A (probs low).

I am up in the air about Scoli, Kabutops, and Magmortar, other people should give more input and then I'll decide (leaning moving up for scoli, staying for mag and tops).

I've been using Klinklang a lot recently and would be interested in discussing the possibility of moving it up to High B or Low A. It really only has a few reliable counters in Poliwrath and Steelix (and Durant/Escavalier to some extent), but these mons usage stats are surprisingly low for some reason. Its main stab Gear Grind, is actually useful, because it can break sashes and hits everything for damage (although steel STAB is a let down). That said, Steel + Normal hits every type for neutral damage except steel and Steel + Electric hits every type for neutral except electric (I prefer return). I would definitely be interested in hearing your perspectives on Klinklang (before it leaves the tier :p).
 
I agree with Klinklang for Low-A. It's near impossible to revenge without priority and it's surprisingly easy to set up. Basically, have things that wall it removed, which are not that many tbh. And your good to go.
 
I agree with Klinklang for Low-A. It's near impossible to revenge without priority and it's surprisingly easy to set up. Basically, have things that wall it removed, which are not that many tbh. And your good to go.
Not to mention that Klinklang resists Ice Shard and Extremespeed and only takes neutral damage from Aqua Jet, all behind a very good defense stat. Let's move it to A-, but no higher because its movepool sets it back (no Earthquake?!).
 
What set are you guys using for Klinklang? It's always been a mediocre mon to me since it has a lot of checks. Defensive teams will usually have something like Poliwrath, Steelix, Magneton, Tangrowth, or Rotom (or even Sandslash -.-) to deal with it. If you're not running Substitute then it has a lot more checks like Durant and Druddigon (it can't KO a lot of mons at +1). Other Pokemon like Emboar, Aggron, and Rotom-C can also check it, which leads me to the point of Klinklang having four-moveslot syndrome. If running Substitute, Klinklang has to choose between either Return or Wild Charge, and either choice will allow more Pokemon to counter it. If running Gear Grind, Wild Charge, and Return, then Klinklang is more susceptible to being revenge killed or beaten by Ferroseed. I don't feel like elaborating so this is just a brief overview of why I don't think Klinklang is that effective and should not move up to A Rank.
 
What set are you guys using for Klinklang? It's always been a mediocre mon to me since it has a lot of checks. Defensive teams will usually have something like Poliwrath, Steelix, Magneton, Tangrowth, or Rotom (or even Sandslash -.-) to deal with it. If you're not running Substitute then it has a lot more checks like Durant and Druddigon (it can't KO a lot of mons at +1). Other Pokemon like Emboar, Aggron, and Rotom-C can also check it, which leads me to the point of Klinklang having four-moveslot syndrome. If running Substitute, Klinklang has to choose between either Return or Wild Charge, and either choice will allow more Pokemon to counter it. If running Gear Grind, Wild Charge, and Return, then Klinklang is more susceptible to being revenge killed or beaten by Ferroseed. I don't feel like elaborating so this is just a brief overview of why I don't think Klinklang is that effective and should not move up to A Rank.
I agree Kilnklang should stay where it is for the reason's mentioned above.

I feel Scyther should also stay where it is, if not move up one position. So many people are deterred by its stealth rock weakness that that's all they can see. Kabutops is one of the top threats of the tier, and it is very easy to spin with him. He also has decent synergy with Scyther, since he resists fire and Scyther resist fighting, ground, and grass (Although they're both weak to electric). Also, if you're using the Scarf set, then that's a mistake. The Swords Dance sets are some of the most effective wall breaking sets in the RU metagame. With Scyther's nice base 105 speed, it can outspeed many threats and KO them with a +2 Tech boosted STAB move. It can rip apart many common cores with Flying/Bug coverage, and it even has access to priority in Quick Attack. Sadly, Steels make Scyther's job harder, but weaker Steels can be beaten down with Brick Break, and many of the tier's bulky Steels lack reliable recovery outside of Leftovers. So I feel Scyther is fine in Low B, but would be a better fit in Mid B. With the right support, Scyther is so deadly mid and late game.
 
I have been using this set.


Klinklang @ Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Gear Grind
- Shift Gear
- Return
- Wild Charge

With Lum Berry it can easily set up multiple times while the opponent's e.g Slowking is just mindlessly scalding hoping for a burn. Or set up when the opponents Lilligant is Sleep Powdering. It's coverage is a bit more decent on this set and I haven't really ever thought "god i wish i had Life Orb". It's not that hard to set up 2 or maybe 3 boosts with this set.
 

EonX

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Scolipede follow-up: Worked with SubSalac Scoli for a bit, and while I generally don't do too well with Sub+Berry strategies, I was able to get it to work a few times (which is really good for me lol) Top-B is fine by me.

Kabutops follow-up: After having worked with (and against) it more, I think Kabutops's best place is Top-A. While it is the best spinner in the tier, the Rapid Spin is typically so painfully obvious that it just screams for opposing Grass-types to come in and either set up or support their team (Ferroseed actually re-deploys some of the hazards Kabutops spins away and punishes Rapid Spin with Iron Barbs)

Klinklang: Low-A is definitely too high for this thing imo. As DC touched on, Klinklang has 4MSS and it's also fairly easy to figure out which move (of Return, Wild Charge, or Sub) it isn't using. If Klinklang doesn't break out a Sub right after it comes in, then I'm betting it has a Lum Berry and will just revert to something that can tank a hit and strike back hard (think Golurk, Emboar, Steelix, etc.) If Klinklang does break out Sub, then I'll just force it to reveal its coverage move by switching to something like Rotom-C or Slowking. If it has Return, it'll be forced to use it on Rotom-C and if it has Wild Charge, it's forced to go for that against Slowking. Just make sure you have something that can handle the coverage move you're scouting for. That said, I do think it has enough good qualities to possibly move up to High B. Despite its paltry movepool (in terms of coverage) it is somewhat versatile as it has Lum Berry and Sub to protect against status, thus allowing it to be more aggressive with full coverage (Lum Berry) or play safer (Sub) It has the bulk to take a neutral hit or two as needed and the typing to compliment said decent bulk. It does require a mild amount of team support to perform at its best, but it can be deadly if such support is provided to it.
 

Molk

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As a person who uses Klinklang quite a bit, i'm going to have to agree that low A is probably too high for it tbh. Of course Klinklang is by no means a bad Pokemon, it gets one of the best boosting moves in the game and an excellent Steel-type STAB to work with, but it has too many apparent flaws to move up out of B rank imo. While Wild Charge was a great addition to Klinklang's movepool, giving it a bit more coverage against some pokemon such as Slowking and even weakened Poliwrath, it still has a little bit of trouble with being walled by common threats early on, such as Steelix, Poliwrath (can still take a boosted Wild Charge and phaze ;-;) and Magneton, the latter of which completely traps and eliminates him from the match. Also, as Dittocrow mentioned, Subshift Klinklang does have a small case of 4mss, having to choose between wild charge and return depending on what it wants the rest of its team to handle for it, and being completely walled by some extra threats that would be eliminated by the other coverage move no matter what it runs, such as Lanturn and Rotom-C when running Wild Charge and Slowking when running Return. Looking at all of this, the highest i'd probably place Klinklang is Top B, although i personally think mid B fits Klinklang just a little bit better.

(btw nozzle's set looks fun :o)

EDIT: reminder not to get too carried away with trying to promote things, if i end up promoting everything you guys nominate we could end up with some very empty ranks x_x
 
I agree now with Top-B for Gear.

Nominating Mister big hips for Top-B rank.

Scarf Medicham is imo one of the best cleaners in the entire metagame. Medicham itself is very hard to wall if you are not Spiritomb and Band Medicham does ridiculous damage. For Scarf Medicham, which is imo it's best set, it's not that hard to prepare a sweep for it. Kill priority users, kill Tomb, kill/weakenSlowking and Tangrowth and Sturdy users, which are all together usually not more than 2 mons on a team. It is imo one of the scariest things in RU.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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I agree with the DC and Molk that Low A is pushing it for Klinklang. I'd agree with Top B though; Klinklang is quite a solid Pokemon in general but has some notable flaws that prevent it from being top tier, that being its lacking coverage and 4MSS. It's a great mon, but the lack of coverage is kind of a letdown. It's still a really solid mon though and can sweep when it needs to, making it suitable for Top B.

Kabutops should really stay in Top A tbh. It is the best spinner in the tier but not one of the best Pokemon overall. While it can spin and beat all of the spinblockers, it is a bit easy to deal with. Sceptile outspeeds it and flat-out murders it with Grass STAB, while Tangrowth and Poliwrath can wall it. It's prepared for a lot, which makes it an A-Rank threat and nothing else.

Scyther could stay in Low B for reasons stated above tbh.

EDIT: I honestly think Medicham is fine in Mid B. While it is an excellent cleaner / revenge killer, yeah, it is completely helpless against Psychic- and Ghost-types, which is a pretty big flaw. It is unable to do anything to Uxie while it can cripple it with T-Wave, same with Tomb except with a burn. Medicham needs some teammates to reach its fullest potential, like it absolutely needs Pursuit support to succeed (Absol). I know Hitmonlee does, however, imo Hitmonlee is more threatening than Medicham in general. It's a great mon, but I think Mid B is fine for it.
 

atomicllamas

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Yeah, I agree low A is probably too high for Klinklang, but access to shift gear is so wonderful, its unfortunate that is like one of the three fully evolved mos that doesn't get earthquake (<-- exaggeration).

I'm also going to agree with ScraftyIsTheBest about tops, its really nice that it can beat most of the ghosts in the tier and spin on them, but it loses to a lot of other things. It makes things like Moltres, Scyther, and Zard a hell of a lot more viable (even though Tres is viable anyways). But staying top A is a good fit for tops.

I also agree with Medicham staying mid B for reasons above.
 

Shame That

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Spiritomb for Low S-Rank



Note: most of what I have to say here will be stuff you guys will already know, but I'm laying it out for the purpose of showing everything Spiritomb does well.

Why should it be moved up?

Spiritomb is simply equipped with all the right stuff for the current meta. The offensive variant is able to trap and dispose of some of the most dreaded pokemon in the tier, including Slowking, Mesprit, Sigilyph, and most other Psychic-types. It can also get the jump on many faster, frailer opponents with powerful STAB priority attacks, which come with the added bonus of finishing off weakened opponents even with respectable bulk (252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 186-219 (52.54 - 61.86%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO). Finally, tricking a Choice Band to a specially based pokemon (or even weaker walls running physical attacks) can ruin a teams synergy and make Spiritomb a far more flexible attacker at the same time, usually granting it Leftovers or Life Orb. It isn't all sunshine here though; Spiritomb is cursed by Steel-types resisting both of its STABs, and it has pretty much no coverage moves. However, the set exists manly to deal with weakened sweepers and Pursuit weak 'mons like Slowking, and it pulls this off with resounding success.


The defensive set is probably even more potent; with Will-O-Wisp, Foul Play and RestTalk, Spiritomb can deal with a huge array of physical attackers in the tier. Burns are annoying even for specially based pokemon; for example, Cryogonal hates being burned, as it forces it to constantly recover without recovery from Leftovers to boost its health up every turn. Physical pokemon without Lum Berries are simply shut down by burns too, with high powered nukes like Aggron and Escavalier being reduced to shadows of their former selves should they attempt to switch in and plough through tomb. Foul Play provides a different and equally as helpful approach to disposing of physical attackers, instead shutting down tons of the tiers setup sweepers. Kabutops, Gallade, Feraligatr, Zangoose, SD Sceptile and more are all smacked aside by Foul Play, powering up Spiritomb's attack with their own Swords Dances. Note: If they dance on the switch, Kabutops and Sceptile beat Spiritomb. However, the offensive set can kill Sceptile most of the time after SR and puts Kabutops in a tight situaton thanks to Life Orb damage in top of being hit by priority, so these Pokemon cannot always beat Spiritomb. Finally, RestTalk allows Spiritomb to comfortably absorb Spore and Sleep Powder amongst other status moves while still retaining its basic functions, and these moves are common in RU.


With three immunities and 0 weaknesses, as well as STABs on Pursuit, Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, Spiritomb can be very difficult to kill. Since you can't hit it super effectively, you just have to use a semi-strong neutral attack and pray it will do better than a 3HKO. It is very easy for Spiritomb to switch in and trap or burn an opponent, whilst often taking little or no damage thanks to awesome defensive stats. Seriously, there are very few attackers this defensive beast fears, save mammoth strikes the likes of CB Druddigon Outrage, CB Aggron Head Smash, and CB Entei Flare Blitz... and even CB Drudd Outrage doesn't OHKO! Since Spiritomb has few real counters, outside of less common stuff like Klinklang, there isn't really a question about synergy... It will fit onto your team.


This one is the real seller. With competition the likes of Misdreavus, Golurk and Dusknoir (lol), Spiritomb easily comes out on top, boasting better typing and a better move pool for the role it plays. It doesn't fear status or Pursuit, leaving it safe to switch in willy nilly throughout the game unless the opponent is some crazy powerful attacker like Specs Slowking. Ok, yes, so Spiritomb has some trouble going 1v1 against common spinners. These pokemon are not without their flaws, and that is why they are not all top S-Rank. Still, Cryogonal suffers greatly at the hands of the CB set, whilst Kabutops takes some serious pain from Foul Play thanks to a great Attack stat (but Stone Edge is downright dangerous). All in all though, since spikestacking is extremely effective in RU, Spiritomb is passively one of the best attackers OR walls on your spikes team.


The offensive set can trap or finish off common, dangerous pokemon
The defensive set is the ultimate answer to physical set-up and most physical attackers
It has 3 immunities, one resist, no weaknesses and great defensive stats


My opinions, summed up. I would like to see if other people feel similarly, or if they have cons to address that could hold it back from S-Rank?
 

Mack the Knife

Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hey guys I agree on Mag staying where it is. If it was a little faster maybe, but alas it is not enough.
I nominate Vanilluxe for Top C rank

I seem to be the only one who cares anything about this little guy. He's actually quite underrated. His Toxic stall set is quite good, due to his higher speed than Walrein, and powerful Blizzard. His decent speed with Ice Body can make things very frustrating for the opponent. He does have problems with Steel-types and isn't that fast. These are things that keep him out of Low B rank. Fortunately with team support he can be quite effective. At the very least he's a Mid C. Most battles I've used him in, he's netted me at least one KO. Here's the set I use:

Vanilluxe @ Leftovers
Trait: Ice Body
EVs: 24 HP / 232 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
- Blizzard
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic

What do you guys think?
 

Molk

Godlike Usmash
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Time for updates! remember, if you strongly disagree with any of the changes i made, feel free to oppose.

Updates said:
Moved Mesprit up from Top B rank to mid A rank (expecting some controversy but w/e)

Moved Klinklang up from mid B rank to top B rank

Moved Scolipede up from mid B rank to top B rank

Moved Scyther down from low B rank to top C rank (i could see some controversy on this too)

Moved Tauros up from low A rank to mid A rank

Pokemon in need of more discussion:

Vanilluxe
Spiritomb
Medicham
i might edit this post with some opinions later =).
 
Spiritomb should not be low s. It has some p huge flaws-unable to do much back to aggron / durant etc. offensive set faces stiff competition from absol(imo absol is better on offensive teams because giving aggron / klinklang / durant free switch ins is rlly bad) and is slow. Defensive sets are v good, but it still has flaws-no reliable recovery, is hit by all entry hazards, and again still lets aggron / durant in for free-both of which are rlly dangerous for stall teams. Tomb is good, but it's not as good / easy to fit on teams as rotom-c, sceptile or entei for example.

Also vanilluxe should stay where it is. I cannot think of a good reason to use it over glaceon apart from autotomize, and that set isn't even that good considering having mono-ice as your typing makes it ridiculously hard to set-up. D is fine for vanilluxe imo, since it has a very small niche.