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Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Oddish is the best

    Oddish is the best

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    I think that Vileplume should be considered for a tier because even though it might be viewed as outclassed by Ammonguss defensively, it is actually quite good offensively as it's STAB is only resisted by poison and steel which are uncommon for the most part. Vileplume also has more bulk than other grass/poison sweepers which allows it to compensate for its slow speed(though it still has to be careful of fire types) Vileplumes STAB is also good for breaking past regenator cores being super effective against all of them except ammonguss and outspeeding them all. I think these traits make Vileplume a pokemon to consider putting on the list as it is surprisingly effective at being a bulky sweeper that can break past annoying regenator cores.

    I agree with this. I'm finding Tauros to be so good right now as it is fast and 1HKO's glass cannon offensive threats and outspeeding them. Zen headbutt brings a great surprise factor against fighting types and easily 1HKO's them. All in all a really good pokemon that needs more usage.
  2. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas on good days I am charming as fuck
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    Yeah, I'm gonna agree that Amoonguss is fine where it is, and has to many flaws to be regarded as an A rank mon.

    I am also going to second the motions that Scyther move down to top C, it is by no means a bad pokemon, but unfortunately the fact that it is 4x stealth rock weak and has okay at best synergy with the two best spinners in the tier kind of hinder it. This also means that U-turn is no longer a viable move, because even though it is a great scouting move, it will probably lose 50% of its health switching back in. As a swords dance sweeper, it faces competition from stuff like Scoli, Gallade, and Kabutops, who all can do it better, while also faking being something else. Scyther's only real niche is a bulky Swords dance passer with a move-set of Swords Dance/Baton Pass/Roost/STAB of Choice with 248 HP/8 Atk/252+ speed. And even this faces competition from Scoli. High C in my opinion.

    For reasons previously stated, Mesprit should move up to low/mid A (probs low).

    I am up in the air about Scoli, Kabutops, and Magmortar, other people should give more input and then I'll decide (leaning moving up for scoli, staying for mag and tops).

    I've been using Klinklang a lot recently and would be interested in discussing the possibility of moving it up to High B or Low A. It really only has a few reliable counters in Poliwrath and Steelix (and Durant/Escavalier to some extent), but these mons usage stats are surprisingly low for some reason. Its main stab Gear Grind, is actually useful, because it can break sashes and hits everything for damage (although steel STAB is a let down). That said, Steel + Normal hits every type for neutral damage except steel and Steel + Electric hits every type for neutral except electric (I prefer return). I would definitely be interested in hearing your perspectives on Klinklang (before it leaves the tier :p).
  3. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    I agree with Klinklang for Low-A. It's near impossible to revenge without priority and it's surprisingly easy to set up. Basically, have things that wall it removed, which are not that many tbh. And your good to go.
  4. Explorer

    Explorer

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    Not to mention that Klinklang resists Ice Shard and Extremespeed and only takes neutral damage from Aqua Jet, all behind a very good defense stat. Let's move it to A-, but no higher because its movepool sets it back (no Earthquake?!).
  5. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    What set are you guys using for Klinklang? It's always been a mediocre mon to me since it has a lot of checks. Defensive teams will usually have something like Poliwrath, Steelix, Magneton, Tangrowth, or Rotom (or even Sandslash -.-) to deal with it. If you're not running Substitute then it has a lot more checks like Durant and Druddigon (it can't KO a lot of mons at +1). Other Pokemon like Emboar, Aggron, and Rotom-C can also check it, which leads me to the point of Klinklang having four-moveslot syndrome. If running Substitute, Klinklang has to choose between either Return or Wild Charge, and either choice will allow more Pokemon to counter it. If running Gear Grind, Wild Charge, and Return, then Klinklang is more susceptible to being revenge killed or beaten by Ferroseed. I don't feel like elaborating so this is just a brief overview of why I don't think Klinklang is that effective and should not move up to A Rank.
  6. -Sparkbeat-

    -Sparkbeat-

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    I agree Kilnklang should stay where it is for the reason's mentioned above.

    I feel Scyther should also stay where it is, if not move up one position. So many people are deterred by its stealth rock weakness that that's all they can see. Kabutops is one of the top threats of the tier, and it is very easy to spin with him. He also has decent synergy with Scyther, since he resists fire and Scyther resist fighting, ground, and grass (Although they're both weak to electric). Also, if you're using the Scarf set, then that's a mistake. The Swords Dance sets are some of the most effective wall breaking sets in the RU metagame. With Scyther's nice base 105 speed, it can outspeed many threats and KO them with a +2 Tech boosted STAB move. It can rip apart many common cores with Flying/Bug coverage, and it even has access to priority in Quick Attack. Sadly, Steels make Scyther's job harder, but weaker Steels can be beaten down with Brick Break, and many of the tier's bulky Steels lack reliable recovery outside of Leftovers. So I feel Scyther is fine in Low B, but would be a better fit in Mid B. With the right support, Scyther is so deadly mid and late game.
  7. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    I have been using this set.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Klinklang @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Clear Body
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Gear Grind
    - Shift Gear
    - Return
    - Wild Charge

    With Lum Berry it can easily set up multiple times while the opponent's e.g Slowking is just mindlessly scalding hoping for a burn. Or set up when the opponents Lilligant is Sleep Powdering. It's coverage is a bit more decent on this set and I haven't really ever thought "god i wish i had Life Orb". It's not that hard to set up 2 or maybe 3 boosts with this set.
  8. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
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    Scolipede follow-up: Worked with SubSalac Scoli for a bit, and while I generally don't do too well with Sub+Berry strategies, I was able to get it to work a few times (which is really good for me lol) Top-B is fine by me.

    Kabutops follow-up: After having worked with (and against) it more, I think Kabutops's best place is Top-A. While it is the best spinner in the tier, the Rapid Spin is typically so painfully obvious that it just screams for opposing Grass-types to come in and either set up or support their team (Ferroseed actually re-deploys some of the hazards Kabutops spins away and punishes Rapid Spin with Iron Barbs)

    Klinklang: Low-A is definitely too high for this thing imo. As DC touched on, Klinklang has 4MSS and it's also fairly easy to figure out which move (of Return, Wild Charge, or Sub) it isn't using. If Klinklang doesn't break out a Sub right after it comes in, then I'm betting it has a Lum Berry and will just revert to something that can tank a hit and strike back hard (think Golurk, Emboar, Steelix, etc.) If Klinklang does break out Sub, then I'll just force it to reveal its coverage move by switching to something like Rotom-C or Slowking. If it has Return, it'll be forced to use it on Rotom-C and if it has Wild Charge, it's forced to go for that against Slowking. Just make sure you have something that can handle the coverage move you're scouting for. That said, I do think it has enough good qualities to possibly move up to High B. Despite its paltry movepool (in terms of coverage) it is somewhat versatile as it has Lum Berry and Sub to protect against status, thus allowing it to be more aggressive with full coverage (Lum Berry) or play safer (Sub) It has the bulk to take a neutral hit or two as needed and the typing to compliment said decent bulk. It does require a mild amount of team support to perform at its best, but it can be deadly if such support is provided to it.
  9. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    As a person who uses Klinklang quite a bit, i'm going to have to agree that low A is probably too high for it tbh. Of course Klinklang is by no means a bad Pokemon, it gets one of the best boosting moves in the game and an excellent Steel-type STAB to work with, but it has too many apparent flaws to move up out of B rank imo. While Wild Charge was a great addition to Klinklang's movepool, giving it a bit more coverage against some pokemon such as Slowking and even weakened Poliwrath, it still has a little bit of trouble with being walled by common threats early on, such as Steelix, Poliwrath (can still take a boosted Wild Charge and phaze ;-;) and Magneton, the latter of which completely traps and eliminates him from the match. Also, as Dittocrow mentioned, Subshift Klinklang does have a small case of 4mss, having to choose between wild charge and return depending on what it wants the rest of its team to handle for it, and being completely walled by some extra threats that would be eliminated by the other coverage move no matter what it runs, such as Lanturn and Rotom-C when running Wild Charge and Slowking when running Return. Looking at all of this, the highest i'd probably place Klinklang is Top B, although i personally think mid B fits Klinklang just a little bit better.

    (btw nozzle's set looks fun :o)

    EDIT: reminder not to get too carried away with trying to promote things, if i end up promoting everything you guys nominate we could end up with some very empty ranks x_x
  10. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    Klingklang should go to Top B at highest. It needs a lot of team support. But that Lum set looks awesome!
  11. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    I agree now with Top-B for Gear.

    Nominating Mister big hips for Top-B rank.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Scarf Medicham is imo one of the best cleaners in the entire metagame. Medicham itself is very hard to wall if you are not Spiritomb and Band Medicham does ridiculous damage. For Scarf Medicham, which is imo it's best set, it's not that hard to prepare a sweep for it. Kill priority users, kill Tomb, kill/weakenSlowking and Tangrowth and Sturdy users, which are all together usually not more than 2 mons on a team. It is imo one of the scariest things in RU.
  12. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    I agree with the DC and Molk that Low A is pushing it for Klinklang. I'd agree with Top B though; Klinklang is quite a solid Pokemon in general but has some notable flaws that prevent it from being top tier, that being its lacking coverage and 4MSS. It's a great mon, but the lack of coverage is kind of a letdown. It's still a really solid mon though and can sweep when it needs to, making it suitable for Top B.

    Kabutops should really stay in Top A tbh. It is the best spinner in the tier but not one of the best Pokemon overall. While it can spin and beat all of the spinblockers, it is a bit easy to deal with. Sceptile outspeeds it and flat-out murders it with Grass STAB, while Tangrowth and Poliwrath can wall it. It's prepared for a lot, which makes it an A-Rank threat and nothing else.

    Scyther could stay in Low B for reasons stated above tbh.

    EDIT: I honestly think Medicham is fine in Mid B. While it is an excellent cleaner / revenge killer, yeah, it is completely helpless against Psychic- and Ghost-types, which is a pretty big flaw. It is unable to do anything to Uxie while it can cripple it with T-Wave, same with Tomb except with a burn. Medicham needs some teammates to reach its fullest potential, like it absolutely needs Pursuit support to succeed (Absol). I know Hitmonlee does, however, imo Hitmonlee is more threatening than Medicham in general. It's a great mon, but I think Mid B is fine for it.
  13. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas on good days I am charming as fuck
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    Yeah, I agree low A is probably too high for Klinklang, but access to shift gear is so wonderful, its unfortunate that is like one of the three fully evolved mos that doesn't get earthquake (<-- exaggeration).

    I'm also going to agree with ScraftyIsTheBest about tops, its really nice that it can beat most of the ghosts in the tier and spin on them, but it loses to a lot of other things. It makes things like Moltres, Scyther, and Zard a hell of a lot more viable (even though Tres is viable anyways). But staying top A is a good fit for tops.

    I also agree with Medicham staying mid B for reasons above.
  14. Shame That

    Shame That night after night
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    Spiritomb for Low S-Rank

    [​IMG]

    Note: most of what I have to say here will be stuff you guys will already know, but I'm laying it out for the purpose of showing everything Spiritomb does well.

    Why should it be moved up?

    Offensive set(s?) (open)
    Spiritomb is simply equipped with all the right stuff for the current meta. The offensive variant is able to trap and dispose of some of the most dreaded pokemon in the tier, including Slowking, Mesprit, Sigilyph, and most other Psychic-types. It can also get the jump on many faster, frailer opponents with powerful STAB priority attacks, which come with the added bonus of finishing off weakened opponents even with respectable bulk (252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 186-219 (52.54 - 61.86%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO). Finally, tricking a Choice Band to a specially based pokemon (or even weaker walls running physical attacks) can ruin a teams synergy and make Spiritomb a far more flexible attacker at the same time, usually granting it Leftovers or Life Orb. It isn't all sunshine here though; Spiritomb is cursed by Steel-types resisting both of its STABs, and it has pretty much no coverage moves. However, the set exists manly to deal with weakened sweepers and Pursuit weak 'mons like Slowking, and it pulls this off with resounding success.


    Defensive set (open)
    The defensive set is probably even more potent; with Will-O-Wisp, Foul Play and RestTalk, Spiritomb can deal with a huge array of physical attackers in the tier. Burns are annoying even for specially based pokemon; for example, Cryogonal hates being burned, as it forces it to constantly recover without recovery from Leftovers to boost its health up every turn. Physical pokemon without Lum Berries are simply shut down by burns too, with high powered nukes like Aggron and Escavalier being reduced to shadows of their former selves should they attempt to switch in and plough through tomb. Foul Play provides a different and equally as helpful approach to disposing of physical attackers, instead shutting down tons of the tiers setup sweepers. Kabutops, Gallade, Feraligatr, Zangoose, SD Sceptile and more are all smacked aside by Foul Play, powering up Spiritomb's attack with their own Swords Dances. Note: If they dance on the switch, Kabutops and Sceptile beat Spiritomb. However, the offensive set can kill Sceptile most of the time after SR and puts Kabutops in a tight situaton thanks to Life Orb damage in top of being hit by priority, so these Pokemon cannot always beat Spiritomb. Finally, RestTalk allows Spiritomb to comfortably absorb Spore and Sleep Powder amongst other status moves while still retaining its basic functions, and these moves are common in RU.


    Typing and Defenses (open)
    With three immunities and 0 weaknesses, as well as STABs on Pursuit, Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, Spiritomb can be very difficult to kill. Since you can't hit it super effectively, you just have to use a semi-strong neutral attack and pray it will do better than a 3HKO. It is very easy for Spiritomb to switch in and trap or burn an opponent, whilst often taking little or no damage thanks to awesome defensive stats. Seriously, there are very few attackers this defensive beast fears, save mammoth strikes the likes of CB Druddigon Outrage, CB Aggron Head Smash, and CB Entei Flare Blitz... and even CB Drudd Outrage doesn't OHKO! Since Spiritomb has few real counters, outside of less common stuff like Klinklang, there isn't really a question about synergy... It will fit onto your team.


    Spinblocking (open)
    This one is the real seller. With competition the likes of Misdreavus, Golurk and Dusknoir (lol), Spiritomb easily comes out on top, boasting better typing and a better move pool for the role it plays. It doesn't fear status or Pursuit, leaving it safe to switch in willy nilly throughout the game unless the opponent is some crazy powerful attacker like Specs Slowking. Ok, yes, so Spiritomb has some trouble going 1v1 against common spinners. These pokemon are not without their flaws, and that is why they are not all top S-Rank. Still, Cryogonal suffers greatly at the hands of the CB set, whilst Kabutops takes some serious pain from Foul Play thanks to a great Attack stat (but Stone Edge is downright dangerous). All in all though, since spikestacking is extremely effective in RU, Spiritomb is passively one of the best attackers OR walls on your spikes team.


    Stop making such long (open)

    The offensive set can trap or finish off common, dangerous pokemon
    The defensive set is the ultimate answer to physical set-up and most physical attackers
    It has 3 immunities, one resist, no weaknesses and great defensive stats


    My opinions, summed up. I would like to see if other people feel similarly, or if they have cons to address that could hold it back from S-Rank?
  15. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    Hey guys I agree on Mag staying where it is. If it was a little faster maybe, but alas it is not enough.
    I nominate Vanilluxe for Top C rank
    [​IMG]
    I seem to be the only one who cares anything about this little guy. He's actually quite underrated. His Toxic stall set is quite good, due to his higher speed than Walrein, and powerful Blizzard. His decent speed with Ice Body can make things very frustrating for the opponent. He does have problems with Steel-types and isn't that fast. These are things that keep him out of Low B rank. Fortunately with team support he can be quite effective. At the very least he's a Mid C. Most battles I've used him in, he's netted me at least one KO. Here's the set I use:

    Vanilluxe @ Leftovers
    Trait: Ice Body
    EVs: 24 HP / 232 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
    - Blizzard
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Toxic

    What do you guys think?
  16. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Time for updates! remember, if you strongly disagree with any of the changes i made, feel free to oppose.

    i might edit this post with some opinions later =).
  17. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Spiritomb should not be low s. It has some p huge flaws-unable to do much back to aggron / durant etc. offensive set faces stiff competition from absol(imo absol is better on offensive teams because giving aggron / klinklang / durant free switch ins is rlly bad) and is slow. Defensive sets are v good, but it still has flaws-no reliable recovery, is hit by all entry hazards, and again still lets aggron / durant in for free-both of which are rlly dangerous for stall teams. Tomb is good, but it's not as good / easy to fit on teams as rotom-c, sceptile or entei for example.

    Also vanilluxe should stay where it is. I cannot think of a good reason to use it over glaceon apart from autotomize, and that set isn't even that good considering having mono-ice as your typing makes it ridiculously hard to set-up. D is fine for vanilluxe imo, since it has a very small niche.
  18. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Agreeing with Silvershadow on the Vanilluxe and Spiritomb matters. Also, I already stated my opinions on Medicham.

    Anyways. It's Rock-type time!

    I know this has been brought up before, but I'd suggest Rhydon for Low or Mid A-Rank. Rhydon is pretty fucking awesome atm in RU. He is easily one of the best Stealth Rock setters in RU, as he has amazing bulk, and can check a lot of physical threats such as Absol, Entei, and a bunch of others, and can thus easily set up SR. With maximum investment into defense, even Crawdaunt's Waterfall is not OHKOing it. Rhydon is very flexible with his EV's and you can tailor the EV's to your team's needs; hell he can go for a specially defensive EV spread to check things like Galvantula and Manectric! Rhydon also has a great offensive typing, giving it STAB EdgeQuake coverage, and its high Attack also allow it to hit solidly hard. Rhydon is also an amazing wallbreaker with CB thanks to this, and if you're not looking for a tank, you can just use his pure power and coverage to break down walls for days. RP Rhydon is something I've tried as well (along with Golurk), and it's an incredible sweeper thanks to EdgeQuake coverage and high Attack. It's kinda hard to set up, but once you grab the boost, you're golden. In addition, its immunity to Thunder Wave only sweetens the deal. While its weaknesses to Grass and Water are a rather crippling flaws, those are easily patched up with the use of teammates (ahem Roselia), and Rhydon is just a really good Pokemon, and as of now I definitely think he's worthy of A-Rank.

    I'd also suggest Omastar for Top B-Rank. This thing is absolutely phenomenal in the sweeping department. It's not that hard to grab a Smash boost, by coming in on something like Entei or Emboar choice-locked, and once Omastar grabs a boost, it can very easily sweep a team. Between Surf, Ice Beam, and HP Grass, Omastar attains perfect coverage, and with just hazard support alone the whole team is liable to go down. With a Timid nature, not many things can outspeed it (iirc not even Scarf Rotom-C outspeeds it), and it can just destroy everything. Overall Omastar is easily one amazing sweeper in RU and should be Top B imo.
  19. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I don't see any reason as to why Mesprit shouldn't be in Mid A-Rank. That thing is incredibly versatile, and it never fails in giving me trouble. The Offensive SR set is always a pain to deal with because it always threatens most of Stealth Rockers that I use, such as Golurk, Rhydon, and Druddigon with Ice Beam. The offensive Calm Mind set is extremely destructive late game, because it's high natural bulk and power makes it quite a pain to deal with. Ever since Mesprit was featured in the next best thing thread, I have been seeing CB Mesprit everywhere, and it's such a pain to deal with. The Specs set has pretty much zero switch-ins as well. I feel like Mesprit is often overlooked by a lot of players, and it shouldn't, because Mesprit is actually really good.
  20. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Rhydon should stay B. It is currently having a lot of issues regarding being worn down over time. Even though it can survive some impressive attacks they still take a large chunk of Rhydon's health out. Like sure it can survive Crawdaunt's Waterfall with full EVs but you will never actually run full defensive EVs because its a tank, that and its dying pn the next turn anyway. Spikes are also becoming rather ubiquitous and Rhydon really hates Spikes because it has no recovery. Everything has some way to hit Rhydon really hard because if all of its weaknesses, leaving it with more than half the metagame being able to just plow through it. Basically, if Rhydon switches too much, its not going to last long. Rhydon (still) has too many flaws to make it into A rank, Top B is fine.
  21. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Honestly, if aggron is A then so should rhydon. Rhydon has rather similar flaws-some very large weaknesses to common attacking types, it's slow-but once it gets in it can do a lot of damage. It is the most physically bulky poke in the game, and it counters loads of relevant mons-including entei, birds, normal types, absol aggron(watch out for cb low kick ofc) and loads of other physical attackers as well by virtue of its ridiculous bulk. CB and rp sets are also very dangerous-the cb set doesn't actually have any 1 counter, while rp is an incredibly potent late game sweeper, and LO rhydon hits like a truck as well, but can change moves obviously. So ye despite rhydon's weaknesses, it's a rlly good mon thanks to excellent STAB's, incredible bulk with eviolite and solid power.

    Edit: It's also far too manly for b.
  22. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    Just would like to say thanks for showing me your opinion! Now that I look at it more closely, Vanilluxe should stay where it is.
  23. Oddish is the best

    Oddish is the best

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    I'd like to nominate Vileplume for Top C Rank. Vileplume is actually pretty decent in the current meta as it is the only grass/poison sweeper (par Victreebel) and it boosts pretty decent bulk. It is also nice for being super effective against all regenerator pokemon except for Ammongus which it can still 3HKO. This gives it someone what of a niche in countering common regenerator cores that are common in the meta (Tangrowth+Slowking Ammonguss+Alomomola etc) and she also outspeeds all of them. Furthermore, Vileplume has secondary poison typing which allows it to absorb toxic spikes which really only Quillfish and Ammonguss do in the meta right now. Plumes secondary poison typing also allows it to predict switches into fire types and launch sludge bomb which deals quite a bit with life orb against fire types like Typh,Emboar,Entei,Moltres as well as just giving it more coverage. However, she is plagued by her low speed that forces her to switch out when a threat comes in that is faster. Also, steel types are a problem since Vileplume has very limited coverage. However, in my 70+ games with Vileplume this month, I've found that she has surpassed my expectations and done very well especially with good predections.

    I personally run this set on Vileplume (That's quite similar to the Smoogon guide I know)
    Item: Life orb
    Ev's: 92 HP 252 SPA 164 Speed
    Ability: Effect Spore (Since not in sun)
    Moves:
    Sludge Bomb
    Giga Drain
    Moonlight
    Sleep Powder
    Nature: Modest

    This set works actually pretty decent and I think Plume is the kind of 'mon that is a Top C rank Pokemon! Let me know what you think :)
  24. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Why would you use vileplume over offensive amoonguss? Unless you can provide some relevant calc's where vileplume is better than offensive amoonguss then I don't even think it should be listed tbh. D rank maybe at a push for vileplume imo-even if it does get a few key ko's over amoonguss, it's still for the most part outclassed as amoonguss has better bulk and regenerator.
  25. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
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    Seems, I missed a lot in the past 3 days, so I'll try to cover everything:

    Vanilluxe: Pretty much agreeing with everything stated. Vanilluxe struggles to stand out tbh. Offensively, it has to deal with Glaceon (more raw power) and Rotom-F (secondary STAB) in general while it has to compete against Wallrein (more bulk) and Glaceon (more raw power... again) defensively. Should stay in D.

    Spiritomb: When you're giving a Steel-type a free switch-in on pretty much any move you use other than Will-O-Wisp (or Trick, but for the record, Aggron and Escavalier typically run CB themselves while Durant can at least make use of it) then that is pretty dang hindering. While it is fairly versatile (able to go physical, special, or defensive) and is pretty much the best spinblocker in the tier, it's basically like Kabutops. Tops is the best spinner, but it just screams for Grass-types to come in. Tomb is the best spinblocker, but it just screams for Steels to come in to setup or support their team. If Tops isn't Low-S, then I don't see why Tomb should be either.

    Medicham: I think it's fine in Mid-B tbh. Sure, it has a hell of a lot of power and is a solid revenge killer, but it can't spam HJK with safety until Ghost-types or any random Pokemon with Protect (Alomomola, Clefable, etc.) are removed due to its serious side effect. Meanwhile, Gallade, a Pokemon who has the same typing, doesn't have this issue since Close Combat just drops defenses, but doesn't punish Gallade for 50% of its max HP upon a miss. Gallade also has Justified. This means that it doesn't get totally screwed if Spiritomb comes in on a STAB move. Medicham can just be hit by Pursuit for free since it really doesn't have a move to overwhelm Spiritomb. Meanwhile, Gallade's Justified discourages Pursuit due to the possible Attack boost that would result in Gallade being able to overpower Spiritomb. As long as Gallade and Spiritomb are around, I think Medicham should stay in Mid-B.

    Rhydon: I'd be cool with Low-A for Rhydon. I think its 4x weaknesses to Water and Grass are pretty bad when Slowking and Sceptile are 2 of the most common Pokemon in the tier, but if this thing gets in, it will likely cause some pretty serious damage to the opposing team. The tank set is a fantastic pivot into physical attacks for teams that want to maintain offensive pressure while the CB set just destroys stuff a la Aggron. The RP set is hard to set up, but it can easily catch the opponent by surprise and turn the tide of the match in a heart beat. I think Mid-A is a little too high due to its flaws, but they shouldn't hold it back from Low-A. It's really good in this meta, especially if supported properly.

    Omastar: This is a bit touchy imo. While Omastar is a fantastic sweeper, it doesn't get easy opportunities to do so outside of Entei and Emboar (the latter of which can just predict the switch-in with Superpower) Lanturn is also a decent check even after a boost due to its special bulk and resistance to Surf and Ice Beam. (HP Grass is super effective, but it's also Omastar's weakest move) Lanturn can KO with Volt Switch or paralyze with T-Wave. Overall, I think its sweeping ability is enough to make Omastar Top-B, but I'll play around with it a little before finalizing this opinion.

    Vileplume: Pretty much agreeing with Silvershadow here. Vileplume also has to compete with Roselia as a defensive Grass-type as well. Amoonguss has overall bulk and Regenerator while Roselia has amazing special bulk, Spikes, and Natural Cure. Even if you try to use Chlorophyll on a Sunny Day team, there's Victreebel to compete with who has higher speed and better mixed offenses. Seems to me that Vileplume just gets outclassed at anything it tries to do.

    Hope I got everything. Will edit this if I missed anything.

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