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Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I agree with most of the move but Crustle.

    Crustle loses to Smeargle 71.5% of the time, since it needs Rock Blast to hit 4x (or crit) to kill max HP Smeargle. Even against Aerodactyl it's a coin toss really, since it needs to hit 3x with Rock Blast (55% success rate, accounting CHs). It only reliably beats Uxie, since it 2HKOs Uxie while Uxie can only 3HKO with Psychic.
  2. Silvershadow234

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    I could've sworn that Crustle always beat Smeargle, but it does beat the 2 most common leads in the metagame right now(Uxie and Aerodactyl). Even if Aero goes for the Stone Edge first, Crustle still has a good chance of beating it. It still gets up 2 layers of hazards up against almost every lead too-Druddigon, Steelix, you name it Crustle can set-up hazards. In my opinion, Crustle is just as good as Smeargle at getting up hazards, as although Smeargle has Spore, the majority of teams now have a way around it such as Uxie or Aerodactyl leads-even Magmortar or fast Taunt users can deal with Smeargle quite easily. No one really prepares for Crustle that much, which is why it is so easy to set-up hazards with it. Also, spinners can't switch into Crustle at all-Crustle is very likely to 2HKO Kabutops factoring in Weak Armour, while Cryogonal gets mashed by Rock Blast.

    It's not just the anti-lead aspect of Crustle that means he deserves A rank, but also the fact that he is a great hazard setter on his own. It's far superior to Accelgor who is also in the B rank, for all the reasons I just stated, and although it isn't as versatile as Smeargle, it definitely has it's plus points over it, like being able to beat Smeargle's common counters.
  3. Slory

    Slory

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    I dont think that Custle deserve to be A Rank. Althogh its a really anti-metagame lead and can reliable beat most common leads like Uxie, Aerodactyl or Smeargle, isnt that good of doing his job. Although Crustle has a decent offensive pressure in 95 Base Attack isnt that good since it is force to use weak moves like Rock Blast and X-Scissor. However, Rock / Bug has a good neutral coverage in RU isnt that good to prevent set-up on it, really thre are a lot of Pokemon that can set-up easily on Crustle like Fraxure, Feraligatr, Omastar, Kabutops (both even with weak armor, Crustle needs a lot of lucky to beat Kabutops), Klinklang, Drapion or Gallade. Furthemore, his typing ist great at all and doesnt help so much for doing his job. Really Rock / Bug its too bad defensively imo, because has a lot of exploitable weakness to coomn moves like Water and Rock, and because of its bad type combination its neutral to common types like Fire, Grass, Fighting an Ground-types and his unique interesting resistance is Normal. And finally, Crustle is too slow for a hazard setter, because of this, although Crustle can beat your lead you can start with thing like Nidoqueen or Drapion that can outspeed it and prevent for doing all of his job.

    However Crustle can reliable beat most common leads, isnt enough to make that good to be A Rank.


    Another thing, why Whimsicott is B Rank? Its pretty dissapointed Pokémon outside of using it like a weather supporter and spread parlysis.

    And I agree with DittoCrow and Pocket sentiments. Bulky Rotom is the only realiable set that it can use, because without running this set it cant have the chance to beat Kabutops, and it isnt that good doing this at all (dont forget that it cant no switch on SE from Kabutops).
  4. Pocket

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    Kabutops beats Crustle, because it 2HKOs Crustle with Stone Edge + Rapid Spin. Crustle is also only setting up Rocks against other offensive SR leads, like Druddigon and Nidoqueen, because they are both faster and can 2HKO it.
  5. spuds4ever

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    Crustle shouldn't be A rank for a few reasons. Firstly, it just doesn't provide nearly as much support as several other setters, most notably aerodactyl and uxie, who are both the best counters to two of the largest (if not THE largest) threats in the tier, moltres and nidoqueen respectively, aero also can use its amazing speed to be able to smash loads of stuff like sceptile, tauros, etc. and cleans excellently. Uxie gets a lot of extra support moves like heal bell, thunder wave, etc. As for Smeargle, the painter already takes something out thanks to spore, and crustle doesn't even reliably beat smeargle. Smeargle is also a lot more versatile than crustle (Baton-pass smeargle is so much better than SS crustle for the record). Also, adding on to what pocket said, the fact that the spinner to use already beats crustle one-on one easily is solid evidence that crustle doesn't deserve A.
  6. Silvershadow234

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    Lead Aerodactyl does nothing but get up Stealth Rock. It never comes back after it does this normally-which is the reason people use it over say Uxie. It Taunt's to stop others getting up hazards, gets up it's Stealth Rock, then dies. It's a suicide lead. I know Uxie does more than just set-up hazards, which is why it is in S class. Crustle can actually beat Kabutops one one one, and although it's a 1 in 6 chance it happens. Kabutops also beats Smeargle one on one if sleep clause is active. I know that Smeargle is versatile and it supports it's team very well, that's why it is an A rank. The point is that Crustle makes a very good anti-lead and hazard setter thanks to Sturdy, Lum Berry and by value of it's typing for offensive teams. It hands down beats the most used lead in the metagame, Uxie, which Smeargle does not as long as Uxie packs enough speed(which it should). Aerodactyl leads are going to get up hazards and stop yours, so they'll taunt first or else you can get up hazards, and then die to Rock Blast so Crustle does beat Aerodactyl unless they go for the Stone Edge first-in which case, Rock Blast is still very likely to finish it off. They also won't be able to get hazards up on you.

    For sure, Nidoqueen beats Crustle, but you only need 44 speed ev's to get two layers of hazards up on Druddigon, and drudd needs to use Outrage to actually 2HKO Crustle which leaves it open to revenge killing from things like Moltres or Sceptile. Either that, or it becomes confused and you get a free turn as it switches out.

    @slory: Taunt+Swords Dance Drapion sets up on Smeargle anyway, and Kabutops can't set up as Rock Blast 2HKO's with Weak Armour. Lum Berry Gallade gets hit for around 50% from X-Scissor, although Aggron, Gatr and Klinklang can set-up. However, Crustle can set-up even outside of the lead spot thanks to it's pretty decent bulk, Uxie, Steelix or Tangrowth for example, unlike Smeargle who needs to be in the lead spot.

    Also, you have to remember that Crustle can run a very effective Spikes and Shell Smash set. This set always beats Smeargle, and if the opponent is foolish enough not to break sturdy then crustle can become very hard to revenge kill thanks to it's great defense. Stuff like Kabutops's Aqua Jet can't KO through Sturdy, and if it comes in on a Shell Smash then it is dead. As are a lot of things that may try to set-up on him, such as the pokes mentioned in slory's list.

    I can't believe I'm the only one rooting for Crustle. It is easily the best anti-lead in the metagame, it laughs at Uxie, it can beat spinners(emphasis on the word can though) and it provides great support. The definition of an A rank poke fits Crustle perfectly-sure Crustle can give opponents free turns, but does get it's job done most of the time.
  7. IstheCakeReallyaLie

    IstheCakeReallyaLie

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    Remove the lock on Dusknoir. It's generally agreed that Munchlax and Metang are useless (unless you're trying to spam them), but Dusknoir isn't THAT bad, considering the lack of Ghost-types in the tier.
  8. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Okay, now that Cresselia and Durant are being retested, im going to make a few minor changes here!

    The following has occured

    Added Cresselia to Untested

    Added Durant to Untested

    removed Musharna from B (its essentially a worse cress).

    Also, idk, i honestly think dusknoir is THAT bad from playing against it, it never really accomplished much of anything, and personally i would rather use spiritomb or golurk over it 100% of the time. 100 attack might seem cool, but its really not when your best STAB has a whopping 60 bp >_>.
  9. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Initial thoughts on Cress and Durant after playing with them over the last two days.

    Cresselia for S rank

    Easiest nomination I could ever make. Cresselia is 100% the best Pokemon available right now, able to provide effective paralysis support for both offensive and defensive oriented teams, as well as being able to sweep late game with little difficulty once Dark types have been removed. It is nigh unkillable with its titanic defenses, and it is both an amazing pivot for offensive teams and a terrific wall for defensive ones. Easily the best Pokemon in the tier.

    Durant for A tier

    Durant misses. A lot. It hits hard as hell and can OHKO a ton of stuff, especially after a boost, and it is a terrifying sweeper. The flaws holding it back from S tier are the fact that it can only set up on switches or physical attacks, and it will only be able to set up once, and the fact that fast pokemon and Choice Scarfers will outspeed it rendering set up pointless. I often find myself forgoing set up unless it guaranteed and using Durant in more of a hit and run capacity. A terrific Pokemon to be sure, but it has severe flaws from being dominating.
  10. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Not making any official changes yet, but im going to add texas's proposed changes and add one of my own =).

    The new proposed changes list is:

    Crustle UP from B rank to A rank

    Cresselia UP from Untested rank to S rank

    Durant UP from Untested rank to A rank

    Drapion UP from A rank to S rank

    Im not sure about crustle and durant (im actually still of the opinion that durant is a bit overpowering). But i agree 100% on cress, Cress is such a good addition to the metagame imo. It can perform so many roles so well, and it checks other top threats like Nidoqueen and Moltres with is monster bulk, reliable recovery and Thunder Wave, looking at the definition for S rank, cress fits it really well, it requires little support to do its job (just dont be stupidly weak to its checks and your good, lol). It performs multiple roles excellently, and to top it off, its monster bulk makes it a pretty low risk, high reward pokemon. Being able to switch into a lot of top threats to set up weather/screens/trick room/calm mind/whatever the fuck it wants.


    I personally feel Drapion should move up to S rank thanks to cress being retested, Drapion can come in on cress with impunity, only fearing thunder wave, and can either trap her with pursuit, do major damage to her with crunch, or set up on her with the combination of taunt and swords dance. Drapion also has great typing and good bulk going for it, it only has a weakness to ground type moves and it has some very nice resistances and immunities to ghost type moves, psychic type moves, toxic, and opposing dark types! Drapion can fill many roles effectively and sits at a pretty good speed tier for RU, base 95 is just enough to outrun or tie with threats such as uxie, cresselia, and moltres, making it much easier for drapion to either sweep with swords dance or just smack things hard, drapion can also perform a support set, although its not as good as it used to be ;-;. I personally thought that drapion should have been S rank from the start, but some other people disagreed with me, so i stuck it in A for the time being.

    So guys, any thoughts on the new proposed changes, including my own? Is Cresselia's unbanning enough to justify moving a pokemon a rank up? feel free to post your thoughts whether you agree or not =).
  11. Silvershadow234

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    Drapion is S tier for sure. It is easily one of the best pokemon in the metagame, and is probably the best Cresselia counter at the moment. It can fulfill multiple different roles, such as Taunt+Swords Dance or Choice Band. Taunt+Swords Dance is probably the best set right now, since it completely shuts down Cress, who is the best mon in the metagame. Like Molk said, it has a great combination of typing, bulk and stats as well-I remember quite a few people were saying that Drapion was really underrated prior to Cresselia and Durant being re-released. That speed allows it to outspeed Moltres, Cresselia and nearly every thing else. It's also not just Cresselia that he can check then-with a Choice band attached, he can take out Moltres, Sceptile and a hole host of other threats.

    Cresselia is definitely S tier as well. Easily the best pokemon in the metagame right now, as it can take so much punishment its unbelievable. SubCM, mono attacker, Thunder Wave+Calm Mind, weather support-all of these sets are really good, and some even have different counters. Thunder Wave and Calm Mind is the set to be running at the moment-spread paralysis early game, and then sweep later on. Drapion for example, really hates the paralysis, as it stops it from sweeping. SubCM stops Toxic from slowly beating it, while the weather support can easily set-up weather a number of times thanks to Cress's enormous bulk.

    Durant, as has already been mentioned, misses a ton, and has a lot of difficulty setting up. It does have basically zero counters though. Even then though, Durant is really easy to revenge kill. Basically anything with HP Fire can beat it, or even a moderately strong special move-for example, Sceptile can revenge kill it with Focus Blast. I personally think that Choice Band and Scarf sets will become the most used. Choice Band hits really hard straight away, and because Durant can only set-up once it can only really take out one poke(any decent team is going to have at least one check to it). This is not a problem with the Choice Band though, as you can smash things throughout the match. Choice Scarf wrecks offensive teams-they will have lots of things that can outspeed Hone Claws Durant, but not Choice Scarf, as Scarf outspeeds Scarf Mane and Galvantula, as well as Sceptile and Aerodactyl. Scarf still hits very hard as well, thanks to Hustle. Overall, I'm thinking S class, partly because it is rather unpredictable, and depending on the set has very different checks.
  12. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    I have teams with 5/6 S rank Pokemon. Am I boring? =(

    edit: 5 S and 1 A LOL
  13. Koinzell

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    Hitmonlee down to C :
    I'm gonna discuss about Unburden Hitmonlee here, because imo CB Reckless Hitmonlee is pretty much outclassed by Medicham.

    I think Hitmonlee is the perfect example of a good sweeper that requires A LOT of support to work, because he's far from a Pokemon without flaws. For starters he has a good numbers of counters in the tier, think stuff like Uxie, Cresselia, Amoongus, Slowking, Tangrowth, Spiritomb, Misdraevius or Golurk. Most of those are pretty common and not exactly easy to take down (good luck Pursuit trapping Cresselia for instance).

    As for Hitmonlee's other flaws :
    - He is too frail to take most priority moves (CB Entei OHKOs, and LO Entei gets close)
    - Unburden mechanism means he only gets one shot at sweeping
    - 4MSS : I mean, without Earthquake you can add Qwilfish and Nidoqueen to the hard-counter list, without Fake Out you risk getting hit before unburden activates, without Mach Punch Kabutops or GATR can attempt to revenge you, without Stone Edge all the Bugs and Flying types stop you, there is also Double Edge which is Lee's stronger move in a lot of situations

    Finally, we are currently re-testing Cresselia, and a Meta centred around Cress doesn't seem so friendly to Hitmonlee, C Rank seems appropriate.
  14. DittoCrow

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    I'm questioning a few Pokemon in the A Rank.

    Hitmonlee is a pretty good Pokemon, but really easy to deal with. The Unburden set is probably the easiest to wall with a Ghost-type or even a bulky Nidoqueen. The Reversal set is also quite flawed in that it is easily revenge killed and has trouble with Psychic-types. When I need a Fighting-type, I almost always go to Gallade. Koinzell discussed most of the other flaws and I agree with them. Hitmonlee should probably be C Rank, B Rank at best.

    Jynx is another oddball that's not seen to often. With the addition of Escavalier to the tier, it got worse. It's hard to run HP Fire because Jynx already had 4 moveslot syndrome with Lovely Kiss, Substitute, Nasty Plot, Ice Beam, and Psyshock, and now it has another thing to deal with. With the increase of Lanturn, Jynx became easier to deal with as well. I'd place it in B Rank!

    Zangoose probably should be in the B Rank as well. It gets worn down incredibly easier by residual damage including Toxic Orb and hazards, and the massive amount of priority really limits its ability to set up. Furthermore, Ghost-types such as Rotom and Spiritomb completely wall it unless Zangoose is running Shadow Claw, which is where he runs into 4 moveslot syndrome. These are huge flaws imo, and they prevent Zangoose from being A Rank imo.

    For Pokemon that should be moved up, I'll discuss 2 for now:

    Quagsire deserves to be in the B Rank. Unaware is a great ability, and it lets Quagsire handle Pokemon such as Entei, Kabutops, Absol, Gallade, and Drapion, Crawdaunt as well as things like Spiritomb, Aggron, and Crustle. All of these Pokemon are at a higher rank than Quagsire, and I think that it is a good asset to defensive teams and should be at least B Rank.

    Emboar should be moved up to the B Rank as well. Emboar has great typing and it is one of the only Fire-types that is not weak to Stealth Rock. It has great coverage in Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, Superpower, and Head Smash/Earthquake which makes it a great revenge killer with a Choice Scarf. Emboar is definitely an underrated mon but it's really effective as a revenge killer and has pros over other Fire-types.

    Also Basculin should probably be added to untested. It's either a C or B Rank imo but needs more testing :P

    And Stoutland :)
  15. Honko

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    I've never seen a Quagsire accomplish much at all. That's partly because not many good players use it, and there's a good reason for that: Poliwrath. Poliwrath does better against every single one of the Pokemon you listed except maybe Gallade (who can beat Quagsire anyway with Close Combat or Leaf Blade). Also, Entei can usually beat Quagsire with HP Grass, and CB Crawdaunt outspeeds and 2HKOes. Quagsire is mostly outclassed and should stay in C.
  16. spuds4ever

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    Agreeing with honko on the quagsire matter. Especially with durant around now and poliwrath being one of his best counters.

    I'm not sure about emboar in B. I used it quite a lot in previous rounds and I just found that it was always too lacking in some way. Choice Band was way too slow and choice scarf was too weak and didn't have enough bulk. Even though it gets that nice stealth rock neutrality, I've always found myself preffering entei who is actually fast, is bulkier, and gets extreme speed which is too good to pass up in RU IMO. Emboar's also completely destroyed by cresselia which is not good either. C rank is fine IMO.

    I think durant should be in S. Yes, it's inconsistent, but look at those base stats, >450 attack, 317 speed? By far the largest total of any offensive pokemon in RU. I think that alone gets it to S class, the fact that cress has become so popular is just the icing on the cake. Oh yeah, and it's also really tough to take down with priority and laughs at steel types.
  17. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Im going to make two official changes and add some proposed changes to the proposed change list now!

    these are the new official changes:

    Cresselia UP from Untested Rank to S rank

    Durant UP from Untested rank to A rank

    I agree with spuds4ever about durant moving up one more stage to S rank, but ill put that in proposed changes for now. I dont think anyone will disagree on moving Cress straight to S, because well, its cress lol. My reasoning for Durant moving up to S rank is its near complete lack of a hard counter, previous BL2 status, incredible speed tier, good typing to take priority, and the highest immediate attack stat in the game, simple as that. Tbh, the only flaws durant has as a pokemon are missing and its mediocre special defense, its an incredible, maybe even overpowering sweeper, and now that it can break through its old counters and checks cress, i think S is appropriate.

    Im also adding the new proposed changes to the discussion, with the old proposed changes still up for discussion, this is the list!

    Crustle UP from B rank to A rank

    Drapion UP from A rank to S rank

    Hitmonlee DOWN from A rank to either B rank or C rank

    Jynx DOWN from A rank to B rank

    Zangoose DOWN from A rank to B rank

    Quagsire UP from C rank to B rank

    Emboar UP from C rank to B rank

    Durant UP from A rank to S rank (my own proposed change).

    I actually disagree with two of these new proposed changes, namely the ones on Quagsire and Zangoose. Honko hit the nail on the head on quagsire, but ill repeat what he said because i can. Quagsire is almost completely outclassed by poliwrath, only really having recover over it thanks to Poliwrath's circle throw making sure nothing can set up on it. I really dont understand why Quagsire is Ru tbh, i have never seen a good RU team using it when Poliwrath wouldnt be better, and if you mention curse, i will say that it is a shitty as fuck set that is STILL outclassed by poliwrath thanks to bulk up, lol. Quagsire is also much easier to switch in on than poliwrath, because with prediction wrath can circle throw its checks as they come in, building up residual damage, and softening up the opponents team for a late game sweep with one of your other teammates.

    Zangoose has been a complete and total badass every time ive tried him out, and i really dont think he needs to set up at all to do some major damage. In fact, my favorite set is just a little 4 attacks set featuring quick attack as a countermeasure to some faster pokemon and Absol's sucker punch. Sure zangoose can set up swords dance and be a complete monster afterwards, but it doesnt need to set up to do its job. There are many other pokemon in A rank or even S rank that suffer from a weakness to residual damage. Take Entei, for example, its weak to Stealth Rock, and its best STAB move does quite a lot of recoil, if your using Life Orb Entei the residual damage just worsens, and you have a reasonably bulky pokemon dying within 3 turns or so thanks to that ;_;. Things like Magmortar, Moltres (Lol, like every fire type), and Swellow encounter similar problems, so if those are still staying A/S rank, i dont see why zangoose cant, in fact, even with my previous success with him, i would rather move Swellow down to B rank than zangoose thanks to its coverage issues.

    Anyways, discuss!
  18. TROP

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    Dusknoir for E pls. Almost everyone agrees that it sucks and that there is no reason to use it over any other ghost available in the tier.Being weaker than the MIGHTY METANG is also pathetic.


    and it is /b/utterfree approved, that should be auto e
  19. spuds4ever

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    Backing up durant for S tier as I stated earlier for the record.

    On the crustle debate. Yes, but lead aero is a terrible set. Using LO or a more defensive set is much better and sticks around for the match (especially if you give it roost). LO aero and also still gets up SR on a lot of popular leads which is good. In short, there's much more to aero than suicide leading which is untrue of crustle. Honestly, I've never ever had any fear of Shell smash crustle. For one, it's extremely easy to wall and revenge kill, poliwrath, steelix, etc. or any specially-based scarfer so I would much rather use carracosta for a sturdy shell smasher who actually has resistances, AJ to get through faster mons and even has ways to get past its typical counters (e.g, ice beam for tangrowth). So we've determined that crustle is a mediocre sweeper, as for a hazards setter, while it does have a niche (that's why it's B class), it's only use is for a suicide hazard setter and at which we've already seen it's not even that amazing as it's beaten by kabutops, doesn't always beat smeargle etc. unlike other popular hazard setters like I mentioned earlier who can actually accomplish other things like aero cleaning and beating moltres, uxie walling fighting and ground types and giving tonnes of support or even sweeping. I just don't think crustle is good enough to deserve that A position.

    I've said my thoughts on quag and emboar, stay in the ranks they are.

    Zangoose is A I think. I've used it quite a lot, and especially now with cofagrigus gone, it's only counter in the tier is spiritomb. 4 attacks zangoose is just so absurdly threatening and 90 speed to back it up is good as well. The only thing holding it back is it's short survivability and frailty, but that immense power I think still carves it out a niche in A.

    Personally, I still think Jynx is A material mostly due to the fact it doesn't actually have a counter due to lovely kiss, great speed, and awesome offensive typing and power. Idk we're considering usage in these rankings (I'm guessing yes seeing as tauros is still in A). But if not, I'm still all for Jynx staying in A.

    I think it's fair to put hitmonlee in B just because the current metagame makes it so tough for him to sweep.

    And that's about it I think. Oh wait, Aero is in B tier?! Aero is definitely for the A tier IMO. Hard counters moltres, pretty good bulk and good typing, checks an absurd ammount of offensive threats, epic cleaner, several great options like roost and SR to add into a last slot, difficult to deal with thanks to taunt, awesome 2 move coverage. That's just a summary because I've already written so much about aero in the crustle debate :P

    Edit: I'll take carracosta for a bit more testing. It's a good mon I think
  20. sfgiantsfanmike

    sfgiantsfanmike

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    Proposed Changes:

    Drapion UP from A rank to S rank
    Isn't Drapion a Cresselia counter? If he messes with the new best pokemon in the tier then I'd say his niche being so valuable it should bump him up the extra teir.

    Durant UP from A rank to S rank
    I'd agree here: he's fast, hit's like a truck and if you let him get that accuracy boost you may be done. I still think he may be suspect/too strong for the tier and by definition that should place him in S tier.

    I have a question: If Cresselia is definitely back in the tier how does that impact Uxie? I love the little fairy but Cresselia is like Uxie 3.0 and may be taking some of the niches/roles that Uxie had. Two things I see Uxie has that she doesn't are Stealth Rock and U-Turn, as well as a faster Trick Room so he has a 'slow' U-Turn in that Trick Room and can get a TR sweeper in without taking a hit reliably. Granted only three turns left at that point but it's something.
  21. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
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    Drapion UP from A rank to S rank
    I can agree with this change, Drapion was already a great Pokemon before Cresselia was unbanned and has now gotten even better, the Taunt + SD set completely shuts down pretty much every Cresselia set.

    Durant UP from A rank to S rank
    This one I simply can't agree with. Sure Durant hits incredibly hard and has Hone Claws to boost it's accuracy but it always NEEDS that one turn to set up or it becomes extremely unreliable. Durant is often prone to being revenge killed as almost every common Choice Scarf user can easily outspeed and OHKO with a super effective Hidden Power Fire or even a half strong neutral special attacking move. Durant almost always only gets once chance to set up and just isn't on the same level as the other Pokemon in the S tier such as Cresselia, Kabutops and Moltres.
  22. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    I have to disagree there new breed. The only set I used with Durant before it was banned was the incredibly dangerous CB set. It was literally impossible to deal with for offensive teams who had to sacrifice something every time it came in, even if Durant missed, it would still be likely to hit first after they switched thanks to that speed. On top of this, if the opponent didn't have a scarfer then Durant could just keep on his rampage.
  23. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
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    Sure that set might have been very good before it was banned but the metagame has changed alot since then, offensive teams are still by far the most popular playstyle and teams tend to carry 2 Pokemon faster than Durant(usually a Scarfer and something like Sceptile or Aerodactyl). Also with offense being everywhere it limits the opportunities Durant has to switch in and/or set up. I have played a shitload of games with Durant especially on the ladder and it has had a difficult time sweeping with me providing alot of support, even against the barely competent RU ladder playerbase who hardly even prepare for Durant.

    I would also like to nominate Escavalier UP from A Rank to S Rank
    Escavalier was in the S tier before the re-introduction of Cresselia and Durant and Cresselia especially has only given us more reason to run this thing. Escavalier can switch in on alot of the tier such as Sceptile & Lilligant with Hp Rock, Drapion, Leaf Storming Rotom-C, Uxie, Cresselia, lolMesprit and proceed to wreck most of the metagame with its extremely powerful Megahorn.
  24. DittoCrow

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    I'm not really sure that we should be moving Pokemon up and down yet based on how they're affected by Cresselia and Durant. They might not stay in the tier (there's only about 2 and a half weeks until voting). However I've sorta changed my mind on Escavalier and wouldn't mind moving it back to S Rank, since it can just check so many things. That depends on how everyone else feels though :3

    Here are some changes that I'm going to propose:

    Mandibuzz up from D Rank to C Rank. Mandibuzz counters a lot of threats in the metagame, including Sceptile, Lilligant, Sigilyph, Spiritomb, etc. It has a great support movepool in Taunt, Roost, Whirlwind, and Toxic. While Stealth Rock really hinders its walling abilities, and the offensive metagame can easily wear it down when Stealth Rock is on the field, Mandibuzz can still deal with quite a few notable Pokemon. Besides facing offensive teams, Mandibuzz strives against stall teams, being able to Taunt slower foes such as Clefable and prevent them from setting up. Mandibuzz fits the C Rank definition perfectly, having a noticeable niche, countering various Pokemon and breaking down defensive teams, but also having noticeable flaws preventing it from being effective, its Stealth Rock weakness.

    Pineco up from Untested to D Rank. Pineco fits the criteria of D Rank perfectly. It can do its job, but won't be very good at it vs good players. It is usable but is really just a gimmicky mon :>.

    Basculin up from Untested to B Rank. This is a pretty bold move, but I've been using Basculin a lot and it's a really good Pokemon. Its base 98 Speed is superb, especially when most Pokemon nowadays are really fast. It outspeeds things such as Sigilyph and everything below, including Drapion, Moltres, Rotom, and Lilligant. Base 92 Attack is not the best, but Basculin can hit hard with Adaptability + Waterfall or score super effective hits on the likes of Sigilyph, Uxie, and Slowking with Crunch. It also gets Superpower, allowing it to defeat Pokemon such as Ferroseed, Kabutops, and Normal-types such as Clefable. Superpower also does 60.28 - 71.27% to Lilligant, which is usually sent in on Basculin. Aside from all of this, Basculin has Aqua Jet, which is arguably the best priority move in the tier. Basculin can pick off weakened, faster foes such as Typhlosion, Galvantula, Tauros, and Archeops with a STAB Aqua Jet. It also checks Nidoqueen which is always a plus :) Basculin is a unique Water-type and has many advantages over other offensive Water-types.
  25. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I agree with all of DittoCrow's requests. Mandibuzz is still a bitch to face, especially for Rain teams. Basculin's Speed really does give it a major advantage over other Water-types like Kabutops and Feraligatr - not to mention it has a stronger Waterfall than both of them. Pineco is... Pineco -.-

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