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The Sands of Eternity (Sand stall team)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Frankk, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Frankk

    Frankk

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Hello!

    I've been playing competitive pokemon for quite some time now, and although I'm no master, I do have a good grasp of the game and the meta. The release of BW2 and the meta-game shifts made stalling even harder than it was in BW. Things like genesect and kyurem B, along with new toys for old pokemon, are all new threats that a stall team must account for. However, I challenged myself to see if I could make a team that covers as many threats as possible.

    Team Building Process:​

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    First, I needed a sand starter. I chose Tyranitar because of his special bulk, trapping ability, and to set up stealth rocks.

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    Next is Gliscor. He's an awesome physical wall that can toxic stall a substantial part of the metagame.

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    Gliscor and Tyranitar are weak to water attacks, and Gliscor is also weak to ice, so Jellicent would good to patch up some holes. Additionally, his ghost typing allows him to serve as my main spinblocker.

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    I need another pokemon to lay down hazards, so Forretress seemed to be a good choice. Additionally, his access to rapid spin allows him to serve as my main spinner.

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    Ah, Blissey. Arguable the best special wall in the game. I chose Blissey over Chansey because leftovers offsets sandstorm damage, and Chansey is more vulnerable to trick.

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    I needed another pokemon to patch up some holes, so I looked to Wobbuffet. He serves as a trapper that allows me to counter and eliminate specific defensive and offensive threats.

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    After some playing, Wobbuffet wasn't doing his job that well, so I replaced him with Skarmory to complete the classic SkarmBliss core. Skarmory also gives me another spiker and phazer.


    Team at a Glance
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    The Team

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    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Hp
    Nature: Jolly
    -Pursuit
    -Crunch
    -Earthquake
    -Ice punch

    Tyranitar will most likely be my lead. He lets me set up eternal sandstorm, which is what this entire team is based around. A choice scarf lets me outspeed and kill certain threats such as swords dance Terrakion or Garchomp. Pursuit lets me trap Espeon, Starmie, and Xatu, all of which are large threats because of their ability to prevent me from laying hazards. Crunch is for Reuniclus and others that can survive a pursuit, such as Jellicent. Earthquake deals with Heatran and possibly Ferrothorn, and ice punch kills flying types and dragons. EVs are the standard 252/252 with 4 in Hp, and a Jolly nature is necessary to outspeed base 110s like Lati@s and Starmie. Unfortunately, Tyranitar is still not fast enough to outspeed Alakazam and Tornadus-T, both of which are large threats to my team.

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor @ Toxic orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 Hp/252 Def/4 Atk
    Nature: Impish
    -Toxic
    -Earthquake
    -Ice fang
    -Protect

    Gliscor is one of my main physical walls. He's a great counter to physical threats like Terrakion and Scizor, and he can stall opponents with toxic. I prefer this set over a fling set because it allows me to toxic more than one opponent, and a misprediction or a lum berry will make fling wasted. Earthquake is a physical STAB that lets me hit back, and Ice fang is mainly to check dragons and grass types (most likely Breloom). Protect furthers my toxic stalling capabilities and allows me to switch to a good counter in front of a choiced Genesect or other pokemon. EVs and nature maximize physical bulk, and 4 Atk gives me more attacking power.

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    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    Evs: 252 HP/220 SpD/ 36 Def
    Nature: Calm
    -Recover
    -Scald
    -Will-O-Wisp
    -Shadow ball

    Jellicent serves as my spinblocker as well as another special wall. While I'll mostly be switching him in to spinners, his special bulk still allows him to take several hits if needed. Recover is for instant recover, and Scald lets me damage opponents and threaten a burn. Will-O-Wisp burns physical threats and steel types such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, or Jirachi, which are immune to toxic. Shadow ball hits Starmie for super-effective damage, and it also lets me check other psychic or ghost types like Gengar, Alakazam, or Reuniclus. Additionally, Jellicent is a sufficient check to Genesect, resisting U-turn or bug buzz as well as flamethrowers and ice beams directed at other team mates. EVs are mainly for special bulk, but 36 Def lets me take earthquakes from Donphan better.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Hp/176 Def/80 SpD
    Nature: Bold
    -Stealth rock
    -Rapid spin
    -Volt switch
    -Toxic spikes

    Forretress is my main hazard layer, with his access to spikes and toxic spikes. Additionally, rapid spin lets me spin away hazards on my own side of the field to keep my other members healthy. Volt switch is a great move because it lets me switch to a good counter while easing prediction. Unfortunately, I often find my self as set up bait, so I might replace spikes with gyro ball. Other than that, Forretress is has very good physical defense, and he can take hits if needed, but his lack of instant recovery means I'd rather let other team members take the hit. EVs give hims good physical bulk, and the 80 SpD EVs lets him set up entry hazards on things like defensive Politoed without taking too much damage.

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    Blissey @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def/252 SpD/4 Hp
    Nature: Calm
    -Wish
    -Toxic
    -Softboiled
    -Seismic Toss

    Blissey is my go-to special wall. While she's susceptible to being set up bait to things like Alakazam and Venusaur, what she brings to the team is outweighed by her flaws. Wish lets me heal team mates, and softboiled gives me more instant recovery in times of crisis. Toxic helps me toxic stall special threats not named Venusaur, Alakazam, or Reuniclus, ans seismic toss lets me do some damage and prevents me from becoming completely shut down by taunt. I choose Blissey over Chansey because Chansey's lacks leftovers, and this is a sand team. 252 EVs are given to both special and physical defense to maximize walling capabilities, with the last 4 going in Hp. A calm nature raises special bulk even higher.

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    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Hp/232 Def/24 Spe
    Nature: Impish
    -Roost
    -Brave Bird
    -Spikes
    -Whirlwind

    Skarmory is another physical wall and completes my SkarmBliss core. Unless the opponent is mixed, Skarmory and Gliscor can basically wall the entire physical meta-game. Roost is for instant recovery, and brave bird lets me hit things like Conkledurr and Breloom for super-effective damage. Skarmory also serves as a secondary spiker, and his physical bulk lets him set up several layers. Whirlwind lets me phaze physical threats, and when combined with roar on Tyraniter, I can phaze most of the set up sweepers in the meta-game. EVs maximize physical bulk, and 24 Spe lets me outspeed Wobbuffet. Unfortunately, both Skarmory and Forretress have a glaring weakness to fire types, so that may prevent me from laying down entry hazards.

    Changes
    Show Hide
    Specially defensive Tyranitar > Choice Scarf Tyranitar
    On Forretress, spikes > stealth rock


    Conclusion

    Well, there we have it. It's not perfect, and there are still several threats that my team fails to check, but it's sufficient to stall out a large portion of the meta-game. Notable threats include Kyurem-B, Alakazam, Venusaur, Reuniclus, and some others that are not as common.
  2. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,550
    Boosting special sweepers is your main weakness. You have already pointed out three, but even things like Volcarona, NP Lucario, Latias, Jirachi, etc could slice through this team like butter. Heat Wave+Superpower Tornadus-T has some amazing coverage against this team as well.
    Switching Tyranitar to a scarf variant would help alleviate a lot of these problems. You could take Toxic off of Gliscor for Stealth Rocks or obviously remove duplicate spikes to make room for them.
    Earthquake, Stone Edge, Crunch, Pursuit/Superpower scarf Tyaranitar would check almost your entire threat list and you already have Blissey to be your dedicated special tank.
  3. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

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    I actually have a Stall team that is very similar to this one (check my sig) so I can give you some advice.

    Reuniclus is a dangerous pokemon for your team to face. It's immune to your residual hazard damage and univested Pursuit does laughable damage. Stallbreakers like MixMence, Taunt Mew, Gliscor or even Jellicent can shut your team down completely. A possible sollution for this is to run Choice Scarf Tyranitar instead of your current set. A moveset of Crunch, Ice Beam, Pursuit, Earthquake will suffice. Volt Switch Forretress + ScarfTar will deal with Ghost types + the Magic Bounce pokemon easily. Earthquake is a filler move which helps against stuff like Terrakion, Heatran, Wish CM Jirachi etc without lowering your Atk and Def stats. To help against opposing Stall teams, perhaps try Taunt on Jellicent. Night Shade is an option as well, as a move with consistent damage it will be useful against stuff like CM Keldeo. Taunt + Night Shade can be used over Scald and Shadow Ball.
    Despite not being all the common anymore, VoltTurn teams also seem a bit problematic for you. Something like Rocky Helmet on Skarmory is something easy that can help you in this situation. It deals damage to U-turners like Scizor and Genesect so you can take them out that way. Rocky Helmet is also useful against Dragon-spammers.

    tl; dr:

    ScarfTar > your current version
    Rocky Helmet > Leftovers Skarmory
    Taunt + Night Shade > Scald + Shadow Ball Jellicent (optional)

    Hope this helps and good luck!
  4. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Keldeo can sweep your whole team easily. The best you can do is hope that it doesn't have HP Ghost.
    If you want to keep this heavy stall playstyle, Latias could work over Gliscor. It has a lot of options, but I would suggest using a variant with Roar.
  5. undisputed

    undisputed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Frontier Lackeyis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Hey!

    Very solid Defensive Stall team. You're mostly weak to Pokemon that aren't very common, which is about all that you can ask for in BW2. I'm going to make one suggestion that could change your team style a little bit, but it will definitely help you beat the Pokemon you're having trouble with.

    My recommendation is that you try CM Wish Jirachi instead of Gliscor. Gliscor isn't as good these days because there's been a large shift towards Special Attacking. The biggest threats, like Keldeo, Landorus, Latios, Tornadus-t, etc are all Specially based sweepers. Therefore, you don't need Gliscor and Skarmory to get the job done. Instead, Jirachi will give you a great Tornadus-t check. It supports the rest of your team with Wish. It stops end-game set up Pokemon (like Reuniclus). If you go with a physically defensive spread, Jirachi + Skarmory are going to stop a lot of Pokemon.

    Aside from that, you should change Spikes on Forretress. Skarmory already has Spikes, so you don't need more Spikes. Oftentimes, that will only be a wasted moveslot. I'd rather see you run something like Gyro Ball and beat an errant Terrakion that caught Skarmory off guard with a Swords Dance.

    Overall, a really solid team. Try out Jirachi and see how it works out.

    Good luck!
  6. Frankk

    Frankk

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Messages:
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    Thanks for the feedback and help! As per youngjake93 and Delko's suggestions, I've changed Tyranitar into a choice scarf variant. I also replaced spikes on Forretress with stealth rock, since Ttar didn't have rocks anymore.

    @Delko
    I've tried taunt on Jellicent, but I've found scald is better as a water attack to check threats like Gliscor, and shadow ball lets me get the surprise hit on Alakazam.

    @Youngjake93
    I've seen Keldeo carry HP ice much more often, so Jellicent is sufficient. I can see the benefits of Latias, but Gliscor is immune to poison and lets me absorb statuses. I guess I'll test a little further.

    @undisputed
    I can't quite see Jirachi fitting in. It compounds my fire and ground weakness, and most the threats you mentioned are sufficiently checked. I'll need wish, protect, and calm mind, but adding an attacking move prevents me from spreading toxic as well as Gliscor does. Again, I'll test a little further.

    Edit: Delko, your scarftar set has ice punch. Since I already have an ice move on Gliscor, should i replace ice punch/ice beam with something else, and if so, what?
  7. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Hi there! i love stall teams so i can give you some advice.

    First, you are using forretress wrong. you cant really rely on forretress to setup stealth rock, stealth rock are really important on stall teams because its the main way to do damage. Forretress can not setup stealth rock easily against rain and sun teams without taking a lot of damage, and you cant really sacrifice your spinner otherwhise you will be extremely weak to hazards. Instead of stealth rock you can put Gyro ball, which can help a lot to deal with Terrakion, Mamoswine and Kyurem-b, which otherwhise can be painfull to face. It also help somewhat to deal with sub split Gengar, since your blissey cant touch it and Tyranitar cant switch-in on it, because Focus blast is a Ko.

    At this point you have to find another slot for Stealth rock, and i always found Blissey the perfect user. It can almost always find a chance to setup stealth rock against rain, sun and offensive teams in general, so i think that that Stealth rock can work here instead of Wish.

    Hope i helped, gl with your team

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