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BW OU The Schwein

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Blue_Blur, Aug 5, 2012.

  1. Blue_Blur


    Mar 16, 2009

    So in order to celebrate LA getting knocked out of the wcop, I decided to make an rmt.
    This team is I guess more oriented for stalling and is probably the easiest to use team I've made in any generation of Pokemon.
    While using this team I've managed to reach #1 on the Smogon PO Ladder rather easily multiple times,
    the highest being a rating of ~1630 which I accomplished in my first trial with it last year for the 5th round of
    suspect testing. And I guess that's a true enough testament to how easy to use and effective it has been
    since it has been successful even in metagames dominated my Thundurus and Excadrill.

    The team had remained untouched and a year later it still helped reach the top of the ladder
    as well as helping me to a mediocre 2-1 record in wcop and decent 7-3 in the frontier.
    Although a couple other users might just associate the team with "Schweinsteiger", an alt I used on the ladder,
    the teams roots can be traced back to a kind of mix to teams used by Mien and Ace Matador, and then given my golden Latias to top it off.
    It feels almost weird to even make an rmt in the first place considering my relative low contribution put into this site and my dislike for most rmts,
    but with BW2 being released and since I've been able to really alter this team into a successful mold for it,
    I've decided to just leave it be and I guess brag about it since that's all rmts are good for anyway.

    The Team

    Goliath (Tyranitar) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    When I was making this team, I first was using miens which had beaten me countless times on the ladder.
    I quickly noticed that if I did not have something to change the weather to a more favorable option,
    I would be completely obliterated by Sun teams and even some Rain teams which spammed mix Thundurus and Tornadus.
    The reason I decided to make it band was to immediately OHKO Reuniclus which had been a problem in the metagame at the time.
    But even as Reuniclus usage died down, Tyranitar proved to be more than worthy
    as it could get rid of annoying spin blockers such as Jellicent as well as trap and
    kill annoying Psyshock users such as Latios, Latias, and even some Starmies.
    It also gives me an upperhand on Rain Stall teams since a combination of 3 pursuits will
    KO opposing Tentacruel while 3 Scalds will not unless of course they get a burn.

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Softboiled
    - Stealth Rock
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic

    Blissey was one of the 3 core pokes along with Gliscor and Quagsire that I saw as must haves for a stall team.
    Obviously it helps tank Special Attackers and is the primary switch in to pokes like Politoed and Hydreigon
    who would otherwise slam the rest of my team. The reason I use SR on Blissey rather than
    Tyranitar is because.. well its easier, Blissey can switch in on a lot and often forces the opponent to
    switch out which I can use to get up an easy SR. I also carry Toxic to trump unsuspecting opponents
    like Celebi and Latias who believe that when they see SR that they can auto set up on me with either Nasty Plot or Calm Mind respectively.

    Admiral (Gliscor) (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Swords Dance

    Gliscor is a bat with pinchers. Its new ability in tandem with Toxic Orb is also cool. Protect works
    well with the many Toxic users on this team to efficiently stall out weakened opponents. I have
    the evs as they are in order to outspeed max speed Dragonite and Mamoswine I believe.
    Ice Fang and Swords Dance means I will always beat Sub DD Dragonite. Gliscor's unique typing
    also allows me to take hits from pokes like Terrakion and Conkeldurr who would otherwise prove quit problematic.

    Navy (Quagsire) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Quagsire is my favorite poke of this meta, all because of its ability which allows me to be lazy
    in predicting since this thing can always come in and stop anything that has set up. Evs are designed
    to take maximum amount of hits physically while the moveset is really self explanatory. Scald for
    the burn on SD Scizor, and EQ to take on other threats like Heatran, Tyranitar, and Terrakion.
    Toxic allows me to stall out some opponents like Landorus incase I don't get the burn from Scald. Recover to recover health duh.

    Guardian (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    Probably the real bailout in the team. Latias can sweep sun teams, eliminate the Volturn combo of
    Scizor and Rotom-w fairly quickly if necessary and provides an extra switch into rain teams if I
    were to somehow lose Blissey. It also grants me some speed and late game sweeping if the match
    were to somehow get away from me earlier. Overall it's pretty self-explanatory, evs are
    added so that I can give myself as much power to get rid of scizor as well as enough to speed to beat Terrakion and Virizion.

    Trauma (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Volt Switch

    The last Pokemon on the team and probably the most stall defining of them all. Forretress allows me to
    obviously spin and set up spikes. Toxic is more useful than toxic spikes since I can hit things like Latios
    which have Levitate and it doesn't get cancelled by a Tentacruel switch in like Toxic Spikes would,
    which would just make everything more annoying. Volt Switch works well since I can switch out
    of incoming Tentacruel and Jellicent and go to Tyranitar in order to finish them off.

    Threat List

    [​IMG] Gengar - I have nothing that can switch in and immediately OHKO it. Blissey completely stalls it out though with SR Spam. Usually they switch out anyway. Gliscor and Quagsire can also take a hit and do some damage on it.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine - Thing is problematic, Quagsire can take it easily if I don't crit, Forretress can also take a few hits as well. CB ones will really give me hell though.

    [​IMG] Haxorus - If it gets a DD, I'm in a lot of trouble since Quagsire's ability fucks up thanks to Mold Breaker, best way to play around that is to just keep Forretress alive as long as possible to take a hit. Gliscor is the key to beating this thing though since I can rack up some damage with EQ and let protect build up residual damage on it from Sandstorm.

    [​IMG] Jirachi - Mix versions with energy ball are very problematic since usually Quagsire is my first switch in. Latias can deal with it though if I have enough health.

    [​IMG] Metagross - Same with Rachi, Mix versions that carry Grass Knot, and stuff like Ice Punch and HP Fire really piss me off, especially since Metagross can actually deal with Latias, basically I have to EQ with Gliscor, and then hope for the best with Latias HP Fire.

    [​IMG] Dragonite - The Hurricane in the rain is quite annoying. My best bet is too get into Tyranitar on the Hurricane and then out to Latias or Gliscor on the Superpower.​


    Well that's all there is too it, like I've said this team has been well worth using for more than a year now
    and still manages to win on higher level matches. Hopefully if anyone can find something to change to
    the team, they can make it even more successful and have better results than I. :)​
  2. Drako


    Sep 1, 2011
    Exceptional team, but I have one question: How do you deal with Gengar? As soon as forry and ttar have some damage (Forry more of course cause it's specially defensive), it can basically run through all your pokes, since latias cant even speed tie and blissey has no move to hit the ghost.
    I guess you can stall it out of focus blasts with some prediction, but if the opponent has a trapper like ttar or dugtrio and blissey gets taken down...There's also the possibility to miss but on paper I think I'm right if I say Gengar is kind of a threat.

    However, I'm pretty sure you can somehow play around it since you're a really gifted player.

    For a solution, maybe run gyro ball over toxic on forry (you already have toxic on quag and blissey)? Not sure if you even want replacements for your team though since it's already a damn strong team.

    Well, that's it. Again, awesome team and sorry for grammar issues and stuff, English, unfortunately, isnt my native tongue.
  3. Latiax


    Mar 29, 2011
    I could see Life Orb virizon being a threat to your team since it easily set up a CM on ttar being locked into a move and can ohko 4/6 on your team if stealth rocks are up and 2hko the other 2(though blissey can toxic and latias could cm stall) and gengar could also be a problem seeing how your latias isn't max speed. I don't really think there is much you could do to fix that which would be over all beneficial and those things mentioned your team can deal with. Its great to see this team last a year since I vsed it when you first made it! amazing team and good job bro
  4. Warped Worlds

    Warped Worlds formerly Lizardman
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Aug 20, 2008
    Sassy on Forretress. That way you can have a slower Rapid Spin and Volt Switch, which is useful for the mirror with other Forretress.

    Calm with 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef on Blissey. Greater defenses on both sides if I remember correctly.
  5. dadoux


    Mar 17, 2012
    "GG for your team !" ( :p )

    Great sandstall without Hippo, i don't really know what to change tbh ( maybe hp ice > toxic on Forretress , Lum nite can be dangerous, it helps with Landorus too, and I agree with Lizard's Bliss spread ). Do you plan of making a T.list ? It will be way more easier to rate.
  6. august

    august the worst season
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnuswon the 5th Official Smogon Tournamentis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Nov 25, 2007
    oh my god, this team has been around forever, and i think thats a testament to how well built it is.

    anyway, have you ever considered hp ice on forretress over toxic? one of the things that gives this team a bit of trouble is landorus (ridiculously uncommon, but i beat this team last year with tickle wobb + pursuit tar to remove quagsire), because once quagsire is gone you have a lot of trouble with the uncommon sub landorus. another thing that would work i guess is a bulkier latias, as stone edge wont 2hko and dragon pulse + recover wins etc etc

    awesome team, i love cbtar to help deal with threats like super bulky cm reuniclus etc. luvdisc'd
  7. joshe

    joshe the best

    Jan 4, 2009
    This is such an exceptional team that covers the many threats of BW so well that it's been able to be so effective for this long and it should be effective into BW2 as well with some small tweaking.

    I support August's suggestion to give HP-Ice a shot on Forretress over Toxic to better check Dragon-types, Gliscor and Landorus which could give you problems in certain situations; heck even Tornadus-t and Thundurus-t if you decide to continue using this team for BW2. With 36 SpA EVS you can 2HKO all the aforementioned pokemon. It helps keep with the aggressive pace this team likes to hold and forces your opponent to reconsider attempting to switch in on Forre and set up.

    There really isn't much else to say because it is such a well built team after having seen it work in WCOP. Thank you for posting this work of art which made me interested in playing pokemon again. definitely luvdisc'd
  8. Blue_Blur


    Mar 16, 2009
    Thanks for the rates guys, I will probably try the HP Ice Forretress first since it seems interesting and of course change the spread on Blissey.

    I may add a threat list later with just the pokes that are actual problems.

    The way to deal with Gengar is like Drako said, stall it out of Focus Blast with Blissey. Stealth Rock has the same amount of PP as Shadow Ball and Focus Blast combined so I will always win the stall battle if they decide to stay in, but usually they decide to switch out anyways.

    EDIT: Threat list added
  9. Delko

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 7, 2009
    Hey Blue_Blur, this is of course an excellent stall team and I've follow you around quite a lot when you used it. In fact, this very team intrigued me to make a Stall team of my own. And it's nice to see that it's still successful after all that time, so congrats for that.

    Looking at your threatlist I think that Drako's suggestion of Gyro Ball > Toxic on Forretress can greatly help you out. It does a good amount of damage to Mamoswine, Gengar and most boosting Dragons but also Alakazam who I recon has also some dangerous potential versus your team. Opposing Stall teams also seem to be annoying for you to handle, especially if they use a spinblocker, so perhaps Taunt over Protect can be used on Gliscor to handle this better.

    Not much else to suggest as this team is already near-flawless, good luck !
  10. emirinho


    Feb 27, 2010

    There is not much to add to your team since it is already great. I only have a few little suggestions that may be helpful.
    First of all i think that you should put aromatherapy on your blissey because you could be cripppled by some other stall teams or just by a stall pokemon. T-wave could be problematic to your T-tar.
    Another thing is you should put Gyro Ball over Toxic on Forretress as some others mentioned above.
    Other than that, congrats on your team.
  11. TGMD

    TGMD You are entitled to nothing
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Nov 27, 2011
    Hey Blue_Blur,
    this is an outstanding team and I really like the use of CB Tar over Hippo in sand stall. Unfortunately for this team, Venusaur got Giga Drain with the introduction of BW2. Giga Drain means that standard Special Growth Venusaur beats Blissey 1v1 and Venusaur OHKOs everything else on your team except Latias after a single growth. Sludge Bomb isn't a guarenteed KO at +2 on Latias, it does (91.78% - 107.89%). Even if you prevent them from getting up Stealth Rocks or taking any residual damage on Latias before Venusaur comes in and you get lucky on the damage roll, HP Fire under the sun only does (67.55% - 79.47%) to 4/0 Venusaur. Obviously you have TTar, but it's extremely likely for Sun to have a Dugtrio. The bottom line is; Special Growth Venusaur beats you unless you're extremely lucky or you predict flawlessly (every single time they use Giga Drain go to Forre and when they use growth / hp fire, attack, keep doing that until they die to Life Orb, lol.)

    Only a simple change is needed to stop this from happening: Run Thunder Wave over Toxic on Blissey. I understand Toxic is important for stall, but you have Quagsire and Forretress for that, Thunder Wave will prevent Venusaur from sweeping you and it will also stop mix Jirachi with Energy Ball from beating Blissey 1v1 with Iron Head (I remember that particular mixrachi set gave you trouble in wcop XD) Your opponent could trap and kill Blissey as well as Dugtrio, but they'll probably just get up rocks and kill Tar, if you dont want to take that risk you could put Thunder Wave over Stealth Rock instead and then put Rocks on Forretress over Toxic or Volt Switch, that way you can toxic Stall Dugtrio with Blissey and make sure it dosen't get off a max power Reversal.

    Anyway, I hope I hope I helped and GL with the team! Luvdisc'd.

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