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The Seabed

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Lyconik, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Lyconik

    Lyconik

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    90
    The Seabed


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    Hello smogon, welcome to my first RMT. So I decided to build a rain offense because it's actually my favorite playstyle, even if you see this everywhere on the ladder now. I started with Politoed + Toxicroak/Thundurus-T core, 2 pokemons who can get through most of the teams. I added ferrothorn for the essential hazard, which also counter kingdra and thundurus-t, 2 important threat to rain offense. Keldeo and Latios are here to prepare the sweep for my set up sweepers by removing threats like celebi, lati@s, gastrodon, jellicent, rotom-w, ...



    Under The Microscope



    [​IMG]


    Politoed @ Water Gem
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 SAtk / 44 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Psychic


    The almighty frog is in the place ! Politoed bring me the essential rain, and also pack a certain power. I chose Water Gem instead Spec or Scarf in order to bluff the opponent and smack him with a spec-level hydropump. Moreover, toed doesn't become a set-up fodder (it's the essential point of the team). HP grass hit hard gastrodon, and do some damage to rotom-w. Psychic is here for toxicroak mostly. With the Hp investment, toed have a great bulk, and I use enough Ev in speed to outspeed CBtar and some pokemon above.



    [​IMG]


    Toxicroak @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Sucker Punch


    My main physical attacker : Toxic Raptor ! It's the classic SD set, but I prefer drain punch > cross chop because I'm not a fan of the 80% accuracy and the extra recover is great sometimes. Actually, toxicroak beat most top tier pokemon like keldeo, terrakion, latios, breloom. He can set-up against a lot of used pokemon and start to wreck the opponent's team. His counter are set-up fodder for thundurus-t, and some of the thundurus-t counter are destroyed by toxicroak.



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    Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 40 HP / 96 Def / 252 SAtk / 16 SDef / 104 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Agility
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    One of the most threatening set up sweeper in this metagame, and probably my MVP. With Agility and Nasty Plot, you can sweep both offense and stall team. I took the Ev's from Shurtugal's RMT, so he can survive most of the priority move. Thunder alongside max spatk is just so freaking powerful, and the boltbeam coverage is great. Thundurus-T have good resistance and bulk so you can even set up both agility and nasty plot ; the lefties help with that and you can even beat ferrothorn 1v1 (if he doesn't have leech seed + protect though).



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    Ferrothorn @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    - Explosion


    Here's come Deoxys-D 2.0 ! I really need the two kinds of hazard, and under rain, ferrothorn is just the best hazard setter. I use a set of mine (at least, I don't see people using that) and it work incredibly well : thunder wave + explosion allows zero set-up and you can often grab a surprise kill after laying your hazards. I maximize the bulk and the power of ferro, the normal gem is here to boost the power of explosion to a insane level ; the 4 Ev in speed are here to outspeed forretress so I can explode before they rapid spin. Ferro help me against kingdra or scarf dragon too.
    Just some damage to show you how destructive he is :
    Show Hide
    252 Atk Normal Gem Ferrothorn Explosion vs 252 HP/236 Def Tentacruel: 93,96% - 110,71% / 58,97% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Normal Gem Ferrothorn Explosion vs 252 HP/120 Def Ninetales: 111,71% - 131,71% / 100% chance to OKHO
    252 Atk Normal Gem Ferrothorn Explosion vs 4 HP/0 Def Lucario: 85,11% - 100% / 2,56% chance to OHKO




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    Keldeo @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Dark]


    Keldeo is often send at mid-game to make some holes on the opponent's team due to his great coverage and the ability to bluff the choice scarf set. For the set, I use Hp dark in order to hit jellicent, lati@s, celebi, slowbro for super effective damage : hp ghost have the same coverage but with hp dark, you don't have to lower your IV and trust me, he already save me many times.



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    Latios (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Memento


    Enter the dragon ! Latios is the last member of my team, but he deserve his place. It's the classic offensive set but with a tweak, I use memento instead of recover. Two reasons : 1) I doesn't want latios to be set up fodder after dm 2) I can just click memento in late game so my sweepers have a easy time to set up.
    I don't use scarf or spec because I need the extra power from life orb and the versatility of latios. I don't really need more speed because I can take care from most of the scarfer, and the opponent can't really boost his speed. I also thought using starmie in this place, but rotom-w and gastrodon are kinda annoying.


    Conclusion
    Here is three battles if you want to see how this team work :
    Show Hide

    Importable :
    Show Hide
    Politoed (M) @ Water Gem
    Trait: Drizzle
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 44 Spd / 212 HP / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Psychic
    - Ice Beam

    Toxicroak (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Sucker Punch

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 Spd / 252 HP / 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    - Explosion

    Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 40 HP / 96 Def / 104 Spd / 16 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Agility
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Keldeo @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Dark]

    Latios (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Memento

    This is the end of my RMT, I hope that you enjoyed it, don't forget to let a comments, rate or luvdisc if you like it ;)



    One Last Glance


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  2. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,813
    Hi there,

    Very cool team you have here. Looking at it, I see that one of your biggest problem are Sun teams in general, Ninetales can just spam Will-O-Wisp and burn Politoed, which then can have problem to win the weather war against Ninetales, and if you lose the weather war against Sun teams, sweepers like Venusaur and Volcarona can smash your team very easily after a setup (they can both setup on Thundurus-T and Volcarona can setup on Toxicroak too). In short, you have problem to win the weather war because Ninetales can always burn your Politoed and then sweepers which are common in a Sun team such as Venusaur, Volcarona, Victreebell and even Lilligant (lol, she's a very underrated Pokemon but she works, no joke) can break your team after a setup which can do easily if sun is up. Therefore, I suggest you to use Rain Dance replacing Hidden Power Dark on your Keldeo, this can look like a gimmick suggestion but Rain Dance can help you a lot against Sun team since even if Politoed dies for some reason, you can change again the weather removing the sun on the field changing it with a more useful rain (for you, of course) with Rain Dance Keldeo (and believe me, you can shock many people with this move) and then you have a chance to win the game against a Sun team which you're playing, especially if the opponent has sacrificed his Ninetales when Politoed is dead.

    I also notice that you haven't a revenge-killer and a fast Pokemon in general on your team so you should try Choice Scarf Keldeo instead of your current one, with the same EV spread of your Keldeo but changing Hidden Power Dark with Hidden Power Electric, which would allow you to revenge-kill Gyarados which is an another threat for your team since it can setup on Politoed, Toxicroak and even on Ferrothorn if it's running a moveset with Substitute and then can be very troublesome for your team. Choice Scarf Keldeo would help you against fast setupper such as Dragonite, Salamence and against Volcarona too so it isn't a bad choice for this team on the paper but if you decide to use it then play carefully when you're against a Sun team. However, If you don't want to change Keldeo's set then try simple Rain Dance on it, which is an incredible choice against Sun team which can be quite troublesome for your team, as I already said.

    Then, I don't like at all the EV spread which you're using on your Politoed. If you want to use Ice Beam on a slow Politoed like yours, prepare to have some failures with it since if Politoed is running a slow EV spread, it can't outspeed Dragonite and Breloom, which you should outspeed and kill them with Ice Beam (a slow Politoed can just outspeed Amoonguss but it isn't a threat for your since Ferrothorn can setup on it quite easily and since Latios can smash it with his Psyshock so Ice Beam should be used mainly for Dragonite and Breloom). Therefore, I suggest you to try a different EV spread on your Politoed, a classic EV spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature should work fine, 252 EVs on Speed with a Timid nature allow you to outspeed both Adamant Dragonite and Adamant Breloom and to outspeed Adamant Mamoswine too, which can give you some problem because it can revenge-kill Thundurus-T and Latios and because you haven't solid switch into its powerful Earthquake, and to kill them with Ice Beam and Hydro Pump respectively.

    As last thing, I have only a preference of mine. I find Nasty Plot on Thundurus-T quite useless in some chances since Agility is just enough to smash offensive teams after a setup, Nasty Plot would help you against Stall teams but they aren't very common in BW2 since new threats such as Keldeo, Garchomp and Technician Breloom are all very troublesome for Stall teams in general, also you have Expert Belt on your Keldeo, which is a great Pokemon against Stall team since it can bluff effectively a choice item and then hit hard the switch in. For this reason, you probably should try Focus Blast instead of Nasty Plot on your Thundurus-T, which gives you more coverage on your main sweeper since it allows you to beat Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Tyranitar and Magnezone which your current Thundurus-T strugges with, and see how it works on your team. If you decide to try Focus Blast on Thundurus-T, then you also try Yache Berry instead of Leftovers as item, which is an useful choice versus Mamoswine (it allows you to resist to Mamoswine's Ice Shard and to kill it with Focus Blast, if you're not unlucky of course), which can always revenge-kill your Thundurus-T.

    Good luck!
  3. Lyconik

    Lyconik

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    90
    Hey Alexander, thanks for the rate !

    I will try rain dance on keldeo since it sound very nice against sun, even if I will be more jellicent weak now.
    I don't really need a scarfer in my team since pokemons like salamence, dragonite and volcarona can't set up against me, and I can even play around subdd gyara if SR are up.
    I hesitate for the EV spread on politoed since I really need modest in order to 2KHO gastrodon, and the extra speed is useful just for dragonite and breloom, 2 pokemons that I can handle very well. Also, the ev in hp help me greatly for the weather war.
    Your last suggestion is really cool, but I just can't try it because I really need nasty plot on thundurus-t, especially against stall ; keldeo is not good enough since he is totally walled by tentacruel or jellicent now. If I play well, thundurus-t is pratically an auto-win against most of the rain stall. Moreover, tyranitar take huge damage from +2 Thunder, and magnezone is set up fodder for my thundurus-t.

    Against, thanks for all the suggestions,
  4. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,302
    Hello!

    This is quite an interesting team. I always love the usage of EB Keldeo, but the lack of a scarfer is quite annoying for this team. I'm pretty sure you've noticed that Memento is quite useless on LO Latios too (I've tried it before :P). Personally, I don't think Ferrothorn is good at its job simply because its easy to stop. Furthermore, your quite weak to sun teams as well.

    So my first comments go to ThundyT. Pro spread there ;] Okay on a serious note, I've noticed that a lot of peoples answers to beating DubDance ThundyT is changing the weather so they can bank on a Thunder miss. I would run Thunderbolt over Thunder since the accuracy is worth it in the long run (just think, you can set up on Sun's Donphan and Dugtrio and spam Thunderbolt rather than worrying about a miss :D).

    I would use LORoost Latias over your current LO Latios so you have a better answer to opposing ThundyT and so you have an answer for rain as well. 72 Hp / 184 SpA / 252 Spe should suffice for the EVs.

    Double Hazard Ferrothorn is not a good idea since once it goes KABOOM you have nothing for the Lati twins. Why not use SR Jirachi? Helps with all those dragons and still offers SR. The spikes will be missed, granted Jirachi is an overall better teammate. (Body Slam / Iron Head / SR / U-turn).

    Finally, I believe that Choice Scarf Keldeo is much needed on this team since the lack of a scarfer is really hurting. You seriously need the RK'ing. Run standard moves but replace HP Dark since its quite useless without EB (and even with EB there are better options for coverage likeHP Flying, Bug, Psychic, etc.).

    As for Politoed, I would recommend using the Choice Specs set, investing into maximum special attack and investing enough speed (with modest nature) to hit 242 speed so you can outpace and OHKO Breloom with either Ice Beam or Hydro Pump. The rest should go into HP. The Specs is nice to break down Pokemon (since you no longer have spikes doing this) so that ThundyT can late sweep. Jirachi should also be able to cripple opposing Pokes for ThundyT late game.

    Good synergy overall, GL!

    BTW: if you plan on keeping EB Keldeo, then please use Rain Dance over HP Dark. Keep in mind that ThundyT sets up on Jellicent anyway ;]

    @Alexander:

    However, NP is great on ThundyT for late game sweeping. With the loss of DeoD you no longer have those hazards, and +2 SpA is quite needed to score OHKOs (see 82% to Jirachi, 78% to Tyranitar, 78% to Ferrothorn, etc.). While NP is, in theory, only for stall, its really quite not the case as its easy to get two boosts with that EV spread and its quite easy to simply sweep mid game or late game with the aid of +2 / +2, something the Agi set can't do. Furthermore, FB is quite bad on ThundyT since it usually ends up missing and he has two pokemon providing fighting coverage so why would he even need FB or another coverage over NP?

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