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The Stallvengers! Rate my stall team.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Kaifi, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. Kaifi

    Kaifi

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Introduction:

    This team has helped me ladder quite higher than any other team I have created, it still has some flaws.
    It is a stall team, and has caused many rage quits! It operates around toxic and will 'o wisp, not so much entry hazards, since oddly enough I never seem to have time to set them up. I also do not have one "lead", I choose one according to the opposing team.

    Team Building process:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I originally started with the core of Hippodown and Poison Heal Gliscor,
    as I wanted this team to function as sand stall.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I added Eviolite Chansey to sponge special attacks, to be a cleric, and work in synergy with these two physical walls.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I added 'tomb as a spin blocker and to will 'o wisp Pokémon not hurt by toxic, Quagsire to stop set-up sweepers, and Forretress for hazard support


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I found Jellicent to be a stronger, and more bulky spin blocker than Spiritomb, and Heatran to stop choice band Scizor and T-Wave Ferrothorn, and sun teams, who gave this team trouble.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Since Quagsire was always being useless, I decided to get Ferrothron, as my premier entry hazard setter, and I can switch to Heatran to take predicted Fire attacks, and get a flash fire boost.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I then decided Scarmory was better for the role, and put him in instead of Ferrothorn, and changed Chancey to Blissey, due to the Raters recommending it. I used Paraflinch Jirachi over Gliscor, because he helped my team alot more.


    So there is my team at a glance, now let's go into detail

    (Edits will be in Italics)
    [​IMG]
    Hippodown (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Hp / 204 Def /48 SpD / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Earthquake
    - Whirlwind
    - Slack Off
    - Ice Fang

    Description
    This guy sets up sand for my team and is a great physical wall for my team. The investment in Special defence makes it so he isn't OHKOed by Less powerful water/grass attacks, such as surf and giga drain. Whirlwind is just to phaze and shuffle the other team across my hazards. I find Ice fang is perfect to stop Garchomp, Salamence, or Dragonite from ripping holes in my team. Earthquake is a reliable STAB move, and Slack offers much needed recovery.
    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Atk
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Wish
    - Magic Coat
    - Iron Head
    - Thunder Wave

    Description
    This is a classic paraflinch Jirachi, who strikes annoyance into the hearts of Pokemon players everywhere. With a combo of Thunder Wave and Iron Head, there is a whopping 85% chance they will not move, even if they manage to move, Jirachi can just Wish his health back up. Magic Coat is to prevent other Pokemon from crippling Jirachi with burn or
    paralysis.
    [​IMG]
    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def/ 252 SpD/ 4 Hp
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss

    Description
    Blissey is my replacement for Eviolite Chansey, and does much better on this team.
    She can heal with wish, and make sure she gets the benefit by using protect. Protect also also allows for stalling toxic damage. Seismic toss can be used to take a good chunk out of any Pokemon (But Ghosts) She also soaks special attacks aimed at most of my other Pokemon, because most are physically defensive.
    [​IMG]
    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Cursed Body
    EVs: 252 Hp/ 148 Def/ 108 SpD
    Calm Nature(+SpD, -Atk)
    - Will 'o wisp
    - Recover
    - Magic Coat
    - Night Shade

    Description
    I originally had a moveset consisting of Scald and Shadow Ball, but then saw this set on another Rate my Team, and was intrigued, so I tried it out, and it was great. No one expects Magic Coat on this thing. This makes for all kinds of fun, Bouncing back Thunder Wave from a Ferrothorn, Spore from Breloom, and hazards for any setter. With the investment in defense, Jellicent can switch into physical Pokémon lacking thunder punch and burn them. Night Shade takes a good chunk of damage out of anything, and recover can keep him alive longer.
    [​IMG]
    Scarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def/ 52 SpD/ 180 Hp/ 24 Atk
    Impish Nature(+Def, -SpA)
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird

    Description
    This is my premier entry hazard setter. Whirlwind allows for phazeing and spikes and stealth rock damage to rack up. Roost is for recovery, and brave bird is a powerful STAB option that allows Scarmory to not be complete taunt bait, and to take out weakened pokemon. Leftovers allows for a bit of health every turn.
    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Hp/ 164 Def/ 88 SpD/ 4 SpA
    - Stealth Rock
    - Will 'o Wisp
    - Earth Power
    - Lava Plume

    Description
    Heatran in my answer to sun teams, which plague this team so much. It can Burn foes with Will 'o Wisp, and is very good at countering Steels. Lava Plume and Earth Power provide good coverage together, and Lava plume has a nifty 30% Burn chance. When he has a free turn, Heatran can set up rocks.


    That's the team. Now I will go over common threats to this team.

    Threats List

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone
    This thing makes my team cry. I put a shed shell on my Scarmory just to prevent Magnezone from trapping him, It can hit Jellicent with thunderbolt, and Heatran still takes a good chunk from thunderbolt,
    The only good checks I have are Chancey and Gliscor, Chansey being the only one that checks this thing reliably, because it sometimes carries HP Ice.
    [​IMG]
    Latios
    While not as much of a threat as Gengar or Magnezone, nearly all variants of Latios cause trouble for my team. Subsitute Calm Mind sets, can prevent status and boost itself, so I have to get Hippodown in to phaze it out. Blissey can easily wall choice specs variants locked into Draco meteor, but can't take a psyshock to well.

    These are some good replays:
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-45000985
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-45006298
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-45028742
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-45033710
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-45038865
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-45044871
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-45143299
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-45049683

    Importable:
    The Gaping Maw (Hippowdon) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 204 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Slack Off
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang

    Candy Overload! (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 126 Def / 126 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head
    - Magic Coat

    Rotten Eggs (Chansey) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Wish
    - Softboiled
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic

    Bellycent (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Cursed Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Magic Coat
    - Recover
    - Night Shade

    Bramble Wings (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 180 HP / 24 Atk / 252 Def / 52 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind

    Solomon Grundy (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 4 SAtk / 88 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Lava Plume
    - Stealth Rock
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Well, that's my team, please rate it, and inform me of any holes in it, and how to patch them up.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
    scotti and Arcticblast like this.
  2. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,983
    Hey, this is a pretty decent team build, covering a lot of threats, however I think it needs a bit of a tune up to be more effective.

    First off, I highly suggest to swap Chansey for Blissey, sand is hurting Chansey's bulk and in the long run making it just inferior to Blissey, in turn it would help a lot against threats like Heatran and Magnezone which Blissey takes much better in the sand. While on Chansey / Blissey, your Chansey has some serious recovery problems, with only Wish as recovery with no back up from even Protect, meaning it has no reliable recovery. I suggest you use Softboiled / Protect on your Chansey for this. In theory you could run it over Toxic, but I suggest using it over Heal Bell, as this team honestly doesn't need to much Cleric support between Heatran, Chansey, and Gliscor, Heal Bell even hurts Gliscor. Finally, seeing as this is Wish, Chansey or Blissey, run full HP investment, so 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Calm / Bold.

    Hippowdon needs Earthquake, seriously its is main stab attack. I suggest you use it over Toxic, but if you feel like you need it for some reason, use it over Whirlwind.

    I suggest you give Heatran Toxic, it Heatran allows it to combat Pokmeon like Latios which you feel is a threat. I suggest it more over Willow-O-Wisp, but if you are fearing Dutrio badly, perhaps Protect can work. Also on Heatran, Lava Plume is a better option to burn incoming opponents, I can't think of anything that you really need Fire Blast for.

    Since Jellicent if this team's primary Keldeo counter, you may want to consider Toxic on it somewhere to more effectively deal with it, it would also be very helpful in checking Cloyster as well.

    Also, for some reason you split the defense EVs for almost all the Pokemon for this team... I really don't know why you did that at all, overall that just makes the team less effective, Heatran for example should be focused on taking special attacks for the team. In particular, Heatran should be fully specially defensive, Gliscor and Skarmory should be physically defensive.

    IMO, Gliscor seems like the weakest link in this team, as far as I can tell, its role is pretty much limited to checking Terrakion better, and shutting down opposing spikes stacking Pokemon. I think it would be best replaces with a Rapid Spinner like Forretress or Starmie. Really though, you can use anything with this free open slot, a defensive grass type like Amoonguss, Celebi or Latias may be helpful in giving an additional check to Breloom, Keldeo, and Thundurus-T, while a check like Scarf-Tyranitar of CB-Scizor would be helpful in combating Kyurem-B and CM-Reuniclus, heck you could even use an outright sweeper to change the momentum here. You already have a lot of threats covered, so this is an excellent slot to play around with other Pokemon.

    Fine final note, Gengar and Vaporeon really aren't threats. Gengar can't really touch Chansey / Blissey outside of Focus Blast, so one you stall it out of those, Heatran can easily counter it, heck if you want Chansey / Blissey can just PP stall it to death. Vaporeon works on the same idea, while you can't outright beat Hydration Vaporeon, it really can't touch you at all, switching between Blissey and Jellicent to cure / reset the Toxic will make it ineffective and you can PP stall it to death.

    Anyway good luck man. With the small suggestions I made this team should be a lot more effective I think.
  3. SomeDrunkRockLee

    SomeDrunkRockLee

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    181
    All right, first off I would recommend putting Stealth Rock on Hippowdon, as well as opting for EQ; EQ is arguably better vs. Garchomp, since you don't take rough skin damage. Additionally, you mention that ice fang is to "Ice fang is perfect to stop Garchomp, Salamence, or Dragonite from setting up," which is a role that's already fulfilled by whirlwind, anyway. Honestly, I'd recommend using a standard Hippowdon: Physically defensive, since he's not going to be taking many special attacks well no matter how you train him (especially not scalds, since he hates burn), with earthquake/whirlwind/stealth rock/slack off. This frees up a slot on Heatran, allowing you to carry roar. Roar > Rocks on Heatran helps you with a number of threats, including calm mind reuniclus, who sets up on anything on your team bar hippo or skarm and sweeps, and Sub-CM Latios (or latias), who's Dragon Pulses do practically nothing to heatran. Also, don't run 4 Atk Evs on Hippo; they don't get any notable KOs. Switch them to Speed, to outspeed other Hippowdon on whirlwind.

    Additionally, if you want help against opposing Heatran, you could use earth power + lava plume > wil o wisp + fire blast. While the burn is no longer 85%, 30% is still good enough to dissuade physical attackers from switching in. Earth Power still allows you to take down specially defensive ninetales, along with beating other heatran. So I would go for Roar/Protect (or Toxic)/Lava Plume/Earth Power. This would also help against Sub-Disable Gengar, who can't OHKO Heatran with Focus Blast. Additionally, you should note that most ninetales don't stay in vs. Heatran. I would also opt for Full Special Defense EVs on Heatran, enabling you to work as a better Magnezone check, as well as take most attacks save a rain boosted surf from specs Latios.

    Your EVs on Skarmory leave a lot to be desired; you can actually increase it's physical- and special- bulk more by maxing out HP, since that's it's most lacking defensive stat. Additionally, shed shell seems kind of meh; Magnezone is seen on 6.7% of teams, according to official usage stats, so it seems a bit niche. Additionally, Leftovers allow you much more versatility against non-magnezone carrying teams, allowing you to recover large amounts of health over time, as well as be less crippled by a burn. You should be able to play around Magnezone with smart switching and Whirlwinding. Therefore, I'd opt for Leftovers > Shed Shell on Skarmory.

    On chansey, first off, Blissey is usually recommended over Chansey in sand, due to the ability not to take residual damage. Also, with no reliable recovery, you have a serious problem gaining back health; a fast fighting type can switch in on Chansey while she wishes and force her out. Chansey will die much more quickly than she should this way. You could opt for Protect > Seismic Toss/Toxic on Chansey, allowing her to recover health from wish as well as scout for trick from Latios and what attacks other choice users- like choice band scizor- will use against her, enabling you to make smarter switches.

    In order to help against Vaporeon, I'm looking at an even bigger change: offensive celebi > Gliscor. Frankly, aside from hazards, Vaporeon screws you. Offensive Celebi gains the ability to OHKO with Leaf Storm, as well as provide offensive presence on your team against threats to stall. After a bit of damage (stealth rock + 1 layer spikes, for instance), Tyranitar is OHKOd as well by Leaf Storm; Politoed and Jellicent are always OHKOd. Offensive Celebi also helps take out some Pokemon who would otherwise be problematic; as a lure for scizor, it OHKOs any variant with Hidden Power Fire in sand. Earth Power can be used to take out Heatran, while U-Turn can help conserve momentum. Based on your team, I'd go for earth power. Lastly, recover helps Celebi offset life orb and sandstorm damage. I might go with Expert Belt > Life Orb as well, since it takes less recoil for similar results. It should also be noted that Celebi gets a OHKO on any variant of Politoed, which often allows you to win the weather war- or create momentum- early with Celebi.

    That's it for now- good luck with the team.
    -SDRL

    EDIT: Additionally, to the guy above me:
    Vaporeon actually can't be PP Stalled via Chansey + Jellicent, since roar allows Vaporeon to shuffle them. If the opponent has serious hazards, since there isn't a spinner on this team (which I would agree with putting on), Hazards + Roar Vaporeon wreck this team. It can toxic Jelli to get it to switch out, and roar chansey to stop it from healing itself with wish.

    Importable:
    Celebi @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Earth Power
    - Recover
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  4. Kaifi

    Kaifi

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Thank you for all the suggestions. Let me play test with some of these suggestions, and see how well I do.
  5. JayJay21

    JayJay21

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Hello there. I would like to say instead of Tangrowth use Amoonguss

    Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Clear Smog
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Spore

    With this little change you won't be weak to toxic spikes anymore and can also tank hits just as well.

    I would also use a more speedy Jellicent to prevent Skarmory to put down spikes and from chansey/blissey to heal bell etc.

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover

    I hope this helped. :]
  6. Kaifi

    Kaifi

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Thanks JayJay, I will take amoongus into account, however, Magic Coat has added priority, and can bounce back hazards instead of just preventing them, but thanks for the suggestion.
  7. Kaifi

    Kaifi

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    I did some playtesting, and decided I like Tangrowth much better, as he has much more physical bulk, and has a better move pool for my team.
  8. JayJay21

    JayJay21

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Ok however i still suggest Water Absorb on Jellicent. This takes off the consistent pressure you are giving Blissey during game against Rain and you might have a chance to heal 25% health on Jellicent.
  9. Kaifi

    Kaifi

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Yes, but I like cursed body, it activates at the best of times, like when a Jirachi is using thunderbolt, or when a pokemon has only one good move against Jellicent.

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