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Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by mjcarney, Jul 19, 2011.
top 5 - eggy chansey tauros snorlax gengar
Standard RBY and no Snorlax is incompatible. Snorlax and Tauros are the only things that can threaten every switch without explosion. Thats why they are one step above the others. Every team needs Tauros/Snorlax to be standard, then it almost always has Chansey. Chansey is not as necessary as Tau/lax but if we are talking about standard team, then Chansey is in for sure.
Lead. Alakazam / Jynx / Hypno... Anything meant to (try to) take the sleep. Zam is usually the best at that due to how does he match up vs common sleepers. And recovers. Not better than chansey though, but chansey is much better at otehr things. Obviously.
Snorlax. Both SD with Surf/HBeam/tbolt? (who uses cloy, but cloy 100% walls para snorlax, just saying) and Reflect/Rest sets are standard. The later capitalizes on chansey forever (reflect so that you can stay in when sleeping vs the things that would threaten your switch-in), and the former is usually looking for a 2 on 1 trade.
Tauros Self explanatory
Chansey TWave + tbolt is the standard
Lapras / Starmie / Alakazam. Sing Lapras unless you have lead sleeper. Starmie with Hydro Pump or twave sets. Lure out Chasney and go to lax/tau. If chansey is out, sweep.
Exeggutor / Golem / Rhydon / Alakazam. Eggy with stun though d-e can beat para zam/jynx in switches to allow eggy to go for the sleep on chansey. Otherwise you ideally explode on it to open up the water. The rock capitalizes on para'd chansey or zam and walls random electrics. Without free switches they aren't that good though, especially don, who can't explode. and if facing Eggy and Starm, forget about doing much.
As for ranking the rby pokes
4- Eggy / Alakazam / Lapras / Starmie
5- Rhydon / Golem
6- Slowbro / Cloyster / Zapdos / Jynx / Persian / Gengar etc
Snorlax and Tauros are the only things that can threaten every switch without explosion. Thats why they are one step above the others. Snorlax is much more consistent and versatile. Tauros just makes switching out the worst option in most cases. A switch usually means Tauros can do at least +-80% damage before being hit.
Chansey walls the special side. It's interesting to see how all the offensive strategies start around Chansey, as it's an almost pure defensive poke. It walls waters so you try to lure it out with them; take out chansey, then sweep with your Starm/Lapras; Chansey forces eggy to boom, who is indeed trying to explode into it to open up things. Physical stuff always thinking on capitalizing on Chansey to get free switches (and on zam to some extent but zam is just a mini-chansey after all). etc
Eggy is probably 4th. Its a pretty good defensive and offfensive pokemon with good defenses and resistances and explosion to ko chansey, and sleeps and stuns.
Lapras and Starmie are also pretty good and match up decently well vs physicals. Walled by Chansey (though lapras can still sleep or even go with cray, and both freeze). On the other hand, waters can lure out chansey so that you can get the lax vs chansey matchup; and Chansey allows Restlax to sweep forever unless there is something threatening a resting snorlax with reflect up AND you (i.e zapdos, cloyster, bro). Lapras is probably better tha starm overall though, but Starmie is the perfect wall for Cloyster and Slowbro.
Rhydon/Golem aren't really that good as many people may think though. They are mostly ranked here due to how good zapdos would be otherwise. Look at the common pokes and match up don/golem vs them and youll get much more "bads" than "goods" vs them. They are very good at capitalizing para chanseys and para zam and para in general, but eggy or starm gives them a lot of problems. At least Golem explodes which is very very nice.
Alakazam: REFLECT. It's the difference between being a threat and being not.
Persian in probably worse than it should be because there are infinitely more gars around than it should. Gengar is like a special Golem without [double] STAB and a less powerful explosion. And you know that Physical>special. Gengar just matches up bad against everything that is not a water. Ok Gar sleeps but who cares. You already have Eggy and/or Lapras. Sleep with one of them.
Two potentially dangerous unexplored pokes: Victreebel and Kingler. Probably better than gengar. Jolteon is an overall inferior zapdos though it capitalizes on waters much better.
I got a question. If playing on stadium are Tauros and Snorlax still as good? With HyperBeam recharging every turn I find them much harder to use.
I think Tauros can still be threatening with a fast Substitute to block status and dish hits. Behind a substitute, it can possibly fire off Hyper Beams without much risks.
Snorlax actually has other options it can use over Hyper Beam, such as Mega Kick. Thanks to its high HP, Double-Edge isn't a bad alternative either. Counter is another option.
I took my Tauros threw pokemon stadium with the team I described earlier: Alakazam, Chansey, Starmie, Exeggcutor, Golem, Tauros. It dominated. Generally speaking I kept Tauros out of the fight for as long as I could and when he finally did get out it was usually against weakened pokemon. More often then not Tauros would be able to finish most pokemon off with one hit. For me hyper beam was always my final move for taking out the last pokemon. Worked nearly every time.
When I was playing pokecup rules I kept all my pokemon at level 50 except a level 55 Tauros. The extra levels had it outspeeding Alakazams and ONKOing Chanseys with Hyperbeam. Usually the remaining pokemon would be Exeggcutor and Starmie, (They cover eachother nicely) or Alakazam and Chansey (for against powerful psychics like Alakazam and Starmie). Golem hardly saw any use unless I saw a Zapdos.
IMO Stadium does little to dwarf Tauros and his viability providing your using him as a cleaner.
Hey guys thanks for the responses.
Substitute Tauros is something I had already thought of (and use as a surprise starter, works well)
Double-Edge Snorlax I seemed to have over looked. But without having recoil damage when fainting an opponent DE seems like a great option. Snorlax just has so many usable options - that's why I would sooner face a Tauros than a Snoralx, even though Tauros is better at least you know what your going up against.
mjcarney your team looks really good. Which Pokemon would you use as your starter? The problem that I find when trying to clean with Tauros in Stadium is that it's difficult to beat other late-gamers (ex. Starmie, Jolteon, Slowbro, Persian)
Thanks Yai-Inn, that's kind of you to say but the credit should go to everybody who helped me in this thread.
As for my starter, I'd use Exeggcutor when using stardard rules. If I was playing on stadium with pokecup rules I'd use either Exeggcutor or Alakazam depending on the opposing team. If I saw a major threat to Exeggcutor I'd likely still bring him along as long as I room for a counter to that threat and Tauros. For example if I saw Jynx I would go Egg, Star, Tauros and if I saw Zapdos I would go Egg, Golem, Tauros. If there was a threat to Egg as well as another major threat for example a team with Starmie and Jynx then I couldn't counter both and would use a team like Alakazam, Chansey, Tauros.
If I made the correct predictions in the early game then I found that I had thrown around enough T-waves, body slams and hopefully a good explosion that Tauros cleaned up well enough. Starmie, Persian and other sweepers can be difficult but if your able to force your opponent to play them before your tauros and paralyze them it's no problem. If your opponent is lucky or making all the right moves and you find your Tauros one hit away from getting knocked out, hit em with a hyper beam. You still have a 1/5 chance of getting a crit.
I would say that Exeggutor, Chansey and Tauros are all in a standard team.
The other 3 is a choice between Alakazam, Zapdos, Golem/Rhydon, Snorlax, Lapras and Starmie.
Obviously there are other alternatives (Persian and Gengar for example), but I think most combinations of the 10 above could be considered as a 'standard' team. Having said that, not all combinations of those above is standard, for example a team with both Golem and Rhydon. Personally I use neither!
Yes, no Tauros *shock*
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Leech Seed/Solar Beam
[Special move of your choice]/Metronome/Mimic
Leech Seed/Solar Beam
[Special move of your choice]/Metronome/Mimic
I don't think anyone would consider Jolteon as 'standard', as good as he is.
Some of your movesets are a bit odd as well. Body Slam on Jolteon (his attack is pretty low)? And a Chansey that can only attack with Seismic Toss?
Also, you put Snorlax but gave a moveset for Golem?
You caught me in the middle of editing. Yes I agree it's odd to put Body Slam on Jolteon but *shrug* it is just there as filler. Gonna need something against those with paper defense but with high special. Not the strongest of the physical move it knows, but a chance of paralysis is a nice tradeoff. It does know Thunder Wave so Double-Edge can take its place.
...Lapras does not learn Thunder Wave...
That's a really shitty team
Fair enough I suppose.
Although now you don't have Tauros or Chansey, taking it even further away from a 'standard' in my opinion.
Double-Kick is probably better than Body Slam for Jolteon...
Neither Snorlax or Tauros can touch Reflect Articuno and Cloyster (unless they carry an electric move for some reason, but then they can't touch Golem/Rhydon), so they're defenitely not the end-all-be-all attackers in RBY.
In fact I find both of them to be quite overrated. I have seen plenty of successful team without them.
I don't think I've ever seen a Cloyster with Reflect tbf, probably because people try to avoid hitting it with physical attacks anyway.
The reason they usually wall Tauros and Snorlax is because they're not played that often. If they were more popular, I'm sure that Tauros/Snorlax would often come with Thunderbolt, and not necessarily at the expense of being walled by rock types. Heck, if you run Amnesia Snorlax then Thunderbolt is pretty common anyway.
I do appreciate your point, but at the end of the day pretty much everything will lose to something that's playable, even if they don't wall it.
Oh, and I think Articuno is pretty underrated, and always makes for a nice surprise!
This statement is irrelevant because all physical hits will come when Articuno/Cloyster are switching-in: then Tauros/Snorlax is switching to Sarmie/Chansey/Lapras/whatever (unless you can KO them in the next turn), as your arti/cloy is using reflect. Force them to rest with body slam in the switches; it doesn't matter if they pack reflect or not, because there is no way they can use it while sleeping.
Cloyster is still almost 100% walling a para'd Snorlax WHILE RESTING, as he can rest, wake up and rest again before lax can kill, as I mentioned, which is the only relevant thing here.
And just as a FYI, Lapras takes less damage from slams than Articuno.