1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Sun Rises

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by TGMD, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    997
    The Sun Rises
    An Ōkami themed sun team by Doom.

    [​IMG]

    Introduction

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Hey everybody! I wanted to make a themed RMT and decided the theme to be Ōkami, Seeing as how the main protagonist is the goddess of the sun, and this is a sun team I thought it was quite fitting. Ōkami follows the goddess of the sun, Amaterasu in her efforts to find the celestial brush gods and defeat the evil that plagues the land of nippon. The game has an amazing soundtrack, story and graphics, and is one of my favourite video games of all time.


    Please keep in mind this is a BW1 team and NOT a BW2 team! Anyway, I made this team quite a while ago with a bit of help in the early stages from my good friend Oristeros, because this was my first ever sun team and he had like 2 or 3. I wanted to make an original sun team, set apart from most by implementing a pokemon considered to be "outclassed" by iy's OU bretheren; Victreebel, and I was somewhat successful. The goal of this team is to get rid of opposing weather and Heatran with my trappers then sweep with victreebel. I named this RMT after one of my favourite songs from the Ōkami soundtrack, feel free to listen to it while you read this RMT:

    [youtube]ya3yxTbkh5s[/youtube]

    Team Building Process


    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I started this team wanting to try the Sub Hydreigon + CB Terrakion offesive core, and Ninetales is there for sun obviously.
    Show Hide


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I was already seeing a ridiculous weakness to Terrakion, which is when I thought outside the box and reached into uu, and found Claydol, Resisting Terrakion's Dual STABs while also being able to spin away Hazards which is pretty much essential for most sun teams.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Claydol was working well as a great support pokemon and I wanted a sweeper for it to support, so I started using Venusaur.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I was incredibly underwhelemed by Venusaur's sweepeing capabilities so I looked for a different Chlyrophyll sweeper, I found Victreebel which has amazing coverage and was a much better sweeper in general.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I needed something to set up rocks and check Latios, out of the mons that could fill those 2 roles, Heatran was definetly the best in a sun team. I left the team like it is for awhile because the World Cup Of Pokemon VII came around and I needed to start building some new teams that people hadn't seen on the ladder.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After my WCOP team (Oceania) was eliminated in the quater finals I started building this team again, the previous version was to weak to rain and Heatran was a dead stop to Victreebel and a dick in general. The team was also shut down by Dugtrio way to much, being able to trap and kill half my team. For the Heatran problem I used Dugtrio over Terrakion which also helped Hydreigon out by trapping Blissey the team in general was going alot better being able to trap ttar and heatran made Victreebel sweeps alot easier. But rain was still a problem, luckily during WCOP I came across a Heatran set that was able to trap and kill Politoed.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I just needed to iron a few kinks out at this point, first of all I was missing the Power CB Terrakion brought to the field, 2nd of all I needed at least 1 pivot to dugtrio, 3rd of all psychics such as reuniclus and irritating bulky mons with recovery moves such as hippowdon were giving me alot of trouble so I replaced my Sub Hydreigon with Specs Hydreigon. Thanks to Pocket's suggestion, I've replaced Claydol with Bulky Starmie. Giving me an extra resistance to water means Starmie is now my main switch-in to rain, along with a reliable recovery move, good bulk, speed and leftovers makes starmie a great new addition. Thanks to Pocket and Gr8astard I also gave Ninetales Roar over Rest letting me phase out threats, because of this change SubCM Latias can no longer sweep me. I also made a minor change in Dgutrio's nature and IVs, thanks to Harsha the team is now all-around looking pretty great.


    Past Team Member(s)

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Dogu (Claydol) @ [​IMG] Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam
    - Reflect
    Show Hide


    You may be seeing some resemblance between Dogū and Claydol, well this is because they are based off the same thing. Dogū are humanoid clay figures that were made in prehistoric Japan. In Ōkami, Dogū are a rare enemy found outside the moon cave in the past. In pokemon Claydol is based off a particular type of Dogū known as Shakōki-dogū. I named Claydol after Dogū obviously because they are based off the same thing.

    Claydol is probably the best Terrakion counter out there and is a very underrated Rapid Spinner. Due to it's Levitate and Ground typing Claydol resists Stealth Rock and is immune to spikes and toxic spikes which is a very rare and good combination. Not only that but it's the only mon in the game with reflect and rapid spin making it an awesome support pokemon. I'm not sure why people consider donphan to be better, the best reason I've heard is that it has access to priority and has higher attack, but I personaly think Claydol's advantages outweigh it's disadvantages. I run Rocky Helmet on Claydol so that opposing Dragonite's break their own multiscale, Weaken physical mons for late game Victreebel sweep, make acrobat Gliscor kill itself with acrobatics after it's subbed 4 times :toast: etc.

    EVs are for maximum physical bulk and I put the extra 4 into SAtk to ever so slightly power up Ice Beam. Claydol's role is to keep Terrakion at bay and check most physical threats. Claydol also rapid spins, gets up reflect to increase physical bulk (it's it when I'm up against someone else with a dugtrio and I keep getting reflects up so that Ninetales and Heatran aren't OHKOd by EQ), and for Victreebel sweeps. Although Claydol negates from my offensive pressure it fits in the team incredibly well, being able to spin, set up reflect and resist Terrakion's Dual STABs really sets it apart from other pokes.


    The Team

    Changes will be in Italics
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Amaterasu (Ninetales) (F) @ [​IMG] Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 64 SDef / 196 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Sunny Day
    - Roar
    - Toxic


    Amaterasu (Ōkami no Amaterasu) is the protagonist and only playable character of Ōkami, she's a white wolf and the brush goddess of the sun, her main ability is Sunrise, which summons the sun. I named Ninetales after Amaterasu due to their shared ability to summon the sun. Amaterasu represents the dog in the chinese zodiac.

    One of the main reasons sun is considered inferior to rain and sand is because Ninetales is inferior to Politoed and Tyranitar, Ninetales has the worst bulk, weakest attacking stat, and a weakness to Stealth Rocks. Overall Ninetales is the worst at winning the weather war, but if you do win the weather war, sun is probably the most dangerous playstyle your opponent could possibly be facing. Because of this I like to use bulky Ninetales, obviously to stay alive as long as possible and eventually win the weather war. Sunny Day allows me to gain momentum, which is extremely important, and Toxic is for stalling theats.

    The EV spread is standard fare, I run enough speed to outspeed positive nature base 80s such as Mamoswine and neutral base 90s such as Lucario, I run 248 hp rather than max so that I can switch in on stealth rock 4 times and live with 1hp and the rest is pumped into SDef to be as specially bulky as possible. Ninetales main role is obviously to set up sun, but it also works as amazing bait, cripples walls and sweepers and it can be used as this teams' "special wall." Following Gr8astard and Pocket's advice, I decided to add Roar and Lefties to phase out Nite, Volc, Sub Gyra and most of all; Sub CM Latias.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    CrmsonHelm (Heatran) (M) @ [​IMG] Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk /
    200 Spd | IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam


    The Crimson Helm is a demon born from Yamata no Orochi's blood. He's a villian you fight somewhat early on in the game, when you battle him he attacks you with fire and his long swords. I named Heatran after The Crimson Helm because their helmet's and they both use fire to attack.

    The EV spread may seem weird considering I'm running Timid but without max speed, usually when running Timid offensive Heatran you run max speed to speed tie with other Timid Heatran's but since this Heatran dosen't have Earthpower I have nothing to hit other Heatran's with so trying to outspeed them is pointless, you only need 196 speed EVs to outspeed Neutral base 80s (Dragonite, Mamoswine etc.) and base 81s (Gyrados and... Milotic, lol.) Heatran's role is to trap Politoed, check sun and is my team's steel type and dragon check.
    Heatran used to have Leftovers, but while testing bubbly and Pocket's suggestion I found that Air Balloon overall gave heatran more freedom and gave him the ability to check; Dragons (Dragonite with EQ etc.), Mamoswine and Landorus more reliably. Overall it let me play Heatran more aggressively. thesandman suggested I run an extra 8 speed EVs to outspeed timid non Scarf Politoed. Although it's rare it can come in handy and I'm not living anything crucial with those 8 HP EVs anyway.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Orochi (Hydreigon) (M) @ [​IMG] Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 44 HP / 252 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dark Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - U-turn


    Orochi (Yamata no Orochi) is a legendary 8-headed and 8-tailed Japanese dragon, he appears in Ōkami as the main villiain in the first and 3rd section of the game. I named Hydreigon after Orochi because Hydreigon's design is actually based off Yamata no Orochi, "Hydreigon is based on Yamata no Orochi. It may also incorporate elements of hydras and Slavic dragons."-Bulbapedia, confirmed by Ken Sugimori.

    Hydreigon is a really underrated pokemon, many think it's outclassed by latios because of it's speed, but Hydreigon has better coverage, a better fire type move, more physical bulk and hp, and most of all isn't trapped by Tyranitar, this is because it has some of the best coverage out there, dragon and Fire alone hit every thing for at least neutral barring Heatran, throw fighting in there and you're hitting about 1/3 of ou for super effective damage and then you factor in that there's literally about 4 pokemon in ou that can live a neutral specs Draco Meteor! This particular Hydreigon however dosen't have a fighting move, this is because the notable pokes I hit with Focus Blast are; chansey, blissey, and Tyranitar so I can just U-Turn and trap with dug on the switch instead. I run Dark Pulse over dragon pulse because it's still a reliable stab and CM Reuniclus and especially Cresseslia (extremely rare, but when I went up against it this 1 time I was fucked) were giving me trouble. The flinch rate is also pretty helpful.

    The EVs tank hits and hit as hard as possible while still being able to outspeed positive base 80s. Hydreigon has a simple role, hitting hard, softening teams for victreebel and pivoting out to dugtrio. It also resists water and stops Volt Turn teams.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Tsutagami (Victreebel) (M) @ [​IMG] Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd | IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Weather Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    Tsutagami belongs to a trio of monkeys called the Hanagami, they are the Flora gods and their main power is Greensprout. Sakigami (monkey on the far left, playing a shō) has the power of Bloom, which brings dead plants back to life. Hasugami (monkey in the centre, playing a shakuhachi) hasa the power of Water Lily, which creates Lily Pads on water. The third and final Hanagami is Tsutagami, (monkey on the far right, playing a pair of cymbals) Tsutagami has the power of Vine, which lets you grapple onto airborne konohana blossoms, it works much like the hookshot from the legend of zelda series. I named Victreebel after Tsutagami because of Victreebel's large yellow-tipped vine. All three Hanagami represent the monkey in the chinese zodiac.

    Victreebel is sooo overlooked as a special sweeper in ou. Weather Ball is just amazing, under the sun it's power is 150, as apposed to the 105 power Hidden Power Fire Venusaur has, Weather Ball means it dosen't have to run HP Fire, freeing up a space for HP Ice meaning dragon's dont stop your sweep, Victreebel also has Giga Drain and Venusaur dosen't meaning you can get the extra power from Life Orb without dying off fast. Victreebel is faster than pretty much everything, after a Growth it OHKOs pretty much everything. Basically it's almost impossible to stop a Victreebel sweep after the weather war is won and there's no heatrans on the field. This is easy to do with help from my 2 trappers.

    The EVs are simple, max SAtk and speed for maximum sweeping potential. Victreebel's goal is to sweep late game and revenge kill.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    TwinDemons (Dugtrio) (M) @ [​IMG] Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd |
    IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
    Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal
    - Rock Slide


    The twin demons, gold demon Lechku (on the left) and silver demon Nechku (on the right) are evil owls with the ability to control time. I named Dugtrio after these Twin Demons not only because Dugtrio is pretty much 3 twin Diglett's, but because Nechku can stop time around you and literally "trap" you in place with no escape, much like Dugtrio's Arena Trap ability.

    I prefer Dugtrio with Rock Slide over one with Sub, Sucker Punch, Stone Edge etc. in this particular team so that I have something to stop Volc, that dosen't miss as often, I dont miss the power of Stone Edge because Rock Slide kills all volc bar bulky volc which is Toxic stalled by Ninetales. EVs are pretty basic, max speed to outspeed everything and max attack to hurt things as much as possible when I trap them.

    21 HP EVs rather than 31 gives Dugtrio 201 HP meaning it can take 2 Seismic toss' / Night shade's and still have 1 HP left for strongest Reversal possible. Dugtrio is mainly here to set up rocks and trap Heatran, Ttar, Politoed if it's within range of EQ, Blissey and Chansey. As long as the opponents blissey / chansey dosen't have Flamethower, Victreebel beats them 1v1 they could also have thunder wave which would ruin my sweep, so unless I know their set it's usually safer just to get them out of the way with dug first, and It's good to have them gone for Hydreigon anyway. Hasty Nature and 0 Defense IVs suggested by Harsha means Dugtrio is more likely to be knocked down to it's sash.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Nuregami (Starmie) @ [​IMG] Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psychic
    - Recover
    -Rapid Spin


    Nuregami is a snake entrapped in a corked round flask, she is the brush goddess of Water. Her power is Waterspout, Waterspout allows you to conduct water from existing sources, the upgrade of this ability allows you to summon rain at free will. I named Starmie after Nuregami because they share similiar abilities.

    I used to run claydol on this team because it's probably the best Terrakion counter out there and my entire team was swept by +2 speed Terrakion if they got lucky with Stone Edge hitting. After the addition to Dugtrio on this team Terrakion's threat level was reduced, meaning I didn't need such a dedicated Terrakion counter anymore. Pocket kindly pointed out that Bulky Starmie now suits the team better as a rapid spinner. Key resistances to Water and Ice mean that Starmie is an effective switch in to rain teams while still being able to handle most Terrakion (anything Starmie has trouble with, Dugtrio traps.) Starmie is also more reliable and cant be spin blocked by Gengar, and being able to burn with Scald is an added bonus.

    The EV spread I'm using provides maximum bulk, and it may seem strange I'm not running max speed, but the missing 28 EVs I invested into defense instead are only there for speed tying with opposing Starmie and Azelf. Usually there would be certain situations where this would be helpful if running offensive Starmie, but even if defensive starmie were to win the speed tie it's still unable to OHKO offensive Stamie and Azelf anyway. The speed EVs allows me to still outspeed max Tornadus. Starmie is part of this team to spin hazards, absorb status, burn / wall offensive threats, and check rain.

    Exportable
    Show Hide

    Amaterasu (Ninetales) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 64 SDef / 196 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Sunny Day
    - Roar
    - Toxic
    Show Hide


    CrmsonHelm (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam


    Orochi (Hydreigon) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 44 HP / 252 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dark Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - U-turn


    Tsutagami (Victreebel) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Weather Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    TwinDemons (Dugtrio) (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Rock Slide


    Nuregami (Starmie) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psychic
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin


    Conclusion
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This team has done pretty well for me, in terms of originality this is definetly one of my favourite teams, it works well even though I have an NU mon as my main sweeper and I really love this Heatran set. In terms of threats I really hate facing Hippo teams, because it's much more difficult to trap their weather inducer. Thank you for reading and I hope you enjoyed this RMT.

    Props

    Oristeros - Helping me in the early stages of this team.
    Team Oceania - Putting me in the playing 8 on my first year of trying out and thouroughly furthering my battling skills.
    Hugendugen - For telling me about youtube tags
    Tobes - For creating the Heatran set I'm using
    All of you guys (especially Pocket) - For your awesome rates and your effort to make the team better.


    Feel free to listen to some more great Ōkami music as you rate:

    [youtube]IRx9gnY0Mp0[/youtube] [youtube]UsnJRyTlFb0[/youtube]
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
  2. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    997
    Standard OU Offensive Threats
    Show Hide

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Choice Band – Play around it until I can trap with dug
    • Choice Scarf – Same as above.
    • Dragon Dance – Same as above
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs – keep sun up then Hydreigon.
    • Support – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band – Everything beats it except for Dugtrio and Victreebel.
    • Swords Dance – Heatran and Nintales can both take a BP or oustspeed any other attack then proceed to kill it.
    • Bulky Swords Dance – same as above.
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Choice Band – Heatran. Victreebel revenge kills
    • Dragon Dance – Same as above
    • Mixed – Same as above
    • Parashuffler – Same as above
    • Rain Abuse – Keep sun up
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Trap with Heatran and Dug or revenge kill with Victreebel, Hydreigon. Trapping Scarf Politoed can be difficult but Starmie can switch in
    • 3 Attacks – Under sun not a threat. Ninetales can poison it, Heatran can Trap, and Hydreigon can OHKO
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Standard – Dug traps.
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind – weaken with mons, trap with Dug if necessary
    • Expert Belt – Heatran and Ninetales can kill it.
    • Choice Scarf – Same as above
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt – Keep sun up and play around with Heatran.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs – Same as above
    • Calm Mind – Same as above
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Calm Mind – Play around then Hydreigon can take it down with specs dark pulse.
    • Offensive Trick Room – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band – Mostly depends on my least important member at the current time, sac then revenge kill
    • Dragon Dance – Heatran. Victreebel can revenge kill when health is lowered.
    • Double Dance – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Nasty Plot – Ninetales can Toxic it and stall it out, Dug traps, most of the team can revenge kill.
    • Choice Specs – same as above.
    • Special Attacker – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up – Starmie can spam Psychic. Hydreigon can OHKO. Victreebel can take it out when it’s weak.
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper – Heatran can KO. So can Ninetales.
    • Tinkerbell – Same as above.
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Double Dance – Burn with starm, trap with dug, revenge with Victreebel
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band – Same as above
    • Substitute + Swords Dance – Same as above
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance – Ninetales can Toxic / phase it out. Hydreigon can take it on, Heatran can do heavy damage with Magma storm and solarbeam.
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf – Keep sun up then Hydreigon can take it on.
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split – Ninetales can Flamethrower it and take a few Shadow Balls, Starmie can Psychic.
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb – Keep sun up, make predictions
    • Rapid Spin – Same as above.
    • Choice Specs – Keep sun up and predict correctly.
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance – Starmie, Victreebel revenges
    • Choice Scarf – Same as above.
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Mixed Attacker – Trap with Dug after sacing least important member.
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster – Same as above
    • Choice Band – Same as above
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance – Go straight to dug and take it out with Rock Slide
    • Bulky Quiver Dance – same as above but when I find out that it's bulky, I Toxic with Ninetales or just phase it out.
    • Chesto Rest – See: Offensive Quiver Dance
    • Substitute – Same as above, slightly more dangerous.
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute – Heatran, Hydreigon and Ninetales have no trouble taking it out.
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Specs – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind – Heatran.
    • Bulky Sun Attacker / Passer – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance – Heatran
    • Mixed – Heatran
    • Defensive – Heatran
    • Choice Scarf / ChoiceBand – Heatran
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Offensive – Least important member is main switch in, can be revenge killed when weakened
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf – Same as above.
    • Substitute – If it gets up a Sub it can be deadly. Just need to predict correctly. I might need to sac someone.
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Bulk Up – Heatran, Victreebel and Ninetales revenge kill.
    • Sub Seed – Same as above.
    • Sub Punch – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Calm Mind – Roar with Ninetales. In end game situation; make sure to kill the pokemon before Latias with Hydreigon, then finish her off, or start sweeping with Victreebel earlier on in the match.
    • Offensive Tank – Toxic with Ninetales.
    • Choice Specs – Big threat. Prediction needed.
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance – Psychic with Starmie, trap with claydol.
    • Bulk Up – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance – Starmie, Dug traps.
    • Nasty Plot – Taken out by Victreebel and Ninetales.
    [​IMG] Virizion:
    • Calm Mind – Victreebel.
    • Swords Dance – Same as above.
    • Dual Screens – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    • Dragon Dance –Victreebel, dugtrio.
    • Bulk Up – Same as above + Hydreigon.
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Special Growth – Heatran counters. Victreebel revenge kills. Hydriegon and Ninetales live a hit and KO bacl
    • Mixed Growth – Victreebel revenge kills. Ninetales and Hydreigon live a hit and KO back.
    • SubSeed – Ninetales can Roar, Victreebel can revenge kill
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock – Hydreigon, Starmie
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band – Same as above.
    • Agility – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker – Starmie, Victreebel revenge kills
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band – same as above.
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash – As long as sun is up Heatran can take care of him and Victreebel can revenge if neccesary.
    • Utility – Heatran takes this on and I can spin away spikes With Starmie later on.
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker – Ninetales revenge kills.
    • Focus Sash + Endeavor – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Sac least important mon, then Dug.
    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    • Rain Abuser – Keep sun up. Heatran.
    • Choice Specs – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Choice Scarf – Keep sun up. Heatran.
    • SubSeed – Ninetales Constantly breaks sub and heals off al damage with Rest.
    • Mixed Attacker – Ninetales and Heatran.
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks – Ninetales can Flamethower and Rest off damage. Victreebel can revenge.
    • Offensive Calm Mind – Same as above
    • Focus Sash – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Azelf:
    • Dual Screens – Hydreigon
    • Lead – Same as above.
    • Nasty Plot – Same as above
    • Choice Band – Same as above
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band – As long as sun as up Hydreigon and Starmie can take it on.
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker – Toxic with Ninetales then Flamethower. Then I go to Starmie and spin away all Hazards. If they have a spin blocker I’ll just lead with Heatran.
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash – Starmie.
    • Choice Band – Same as above, watch out for Sucker Punch.
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Agility – Keep sun up and take it out with Heatran, Ninetales, Hydreigon or Victreebel.
    • Choice Specs – Keep sun up, See what he does, then go to appropriate counter.
    [​IMG] Gorebyss:
    • SmashPass – Victreebel.
    • Shell Smash Sweeper – Sane as above
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Dragon Dance – Roar with Ninetales
    • Rain Dance – Same as above
    • Choice Specs – Keep sun up. Predict well.
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Choice – Play around. Victreebel revenges. Dug can trap.
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks – Same as above
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf – Sac least important mon then trap with Dug.
    • Physical Attacker – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band – Heatran takes it on.
    [​IMG] Smeargle:
    • Baton Pass – Lead with Starmie and hope for a burn, if no burn then go to sleep fodder then Ninetales can roar.
    [​IMG] Sharpedo
    • Speed Boost – Keep sun up. Then stall out LO with Starmie / trap with Dugtrio
    [​IMG] Rotom-C:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Specs – Hydreigon.
    • Support – same as above.
    [​IMG] Sawsbuck:
    • Chlorophyll Sweeper - Trap with Dug.
    [​IMG] Victreebel:
    • Growth Sweeper - Heatran walls. Ninetales and Hydreigon can both live a hit and KO back.

    Standard OU Defensive Threats
    Show Hide

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive – Trap with dug.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Standard – Keep sun up and go to Hydreigon.
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard – Ninetales, Heatran, Hydreigon and Victreebel can all OHKO. Starmie can spin away any hazards.
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive – Trap with Heatran.
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Swords Dance – Starmie, Victreebel revenges
    • Substitute + Protect – Starmie, Victreeebel
    • AcroBat – Same as above.
    • Defensive – See Substitute + Protect.
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive – Dug traps
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • SpeciallyDefensive– Entire team can take it on.
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker – Heatran, Ninetales and Hydreigon. Victreebel can revenge kill. Starmie can spin away any hazards.
    • Specially DefensiveSpiker – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive – Dug traps.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive – Heatran walls this set completely so can Ninetales. Victreebel and Hydreigon revenge kill.
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker – Heatran, Ninetales, Victreebel and Hydreigon. Starmie can spin away hazards.
    • Specially Defensive Spiker – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • RestTalk – As long as sun is up the likes of Hydreigon have no problem at all with this set, especially if Reflect is up.
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter – This is set up fodder for Victreebel and Ninetales out speeds and poisons it. This thing can be irritating due to Spin blocking.
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Toxic Spikes – Heatran, Ninetales, Hydreigon and Starmie can take this thing on, Victreebel can come in and absorb Toxic Spikes, Starmie can spin them away.
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank – Ninetales can Toxic and Victreebel can completely destroy with giga drain, so can Heatran with solarbeam.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Dual Screens – Heatran
    • Baton Pass – Heatran.
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support – Dug traps.
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Wish Support – Victreebel, Ninetales can toxic, Heatran Solarbeams, Hydreigon Dracos.
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support – Ninetales Toxic stalls and Heatran can trap, Hydreigon can kill all slower variants.
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank – Victreebel, Heatran and Hydreigon all revenge kill, watch out for Hypnosis.
    • Dual Screens – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Swampert:
    • Defensive – If sun and reflect are up this thing is a joke. Victreebel can come in and revenge kill if necessary.
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker – Heatran, Ninetales and Hydreigon have no trouble with this.
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank – Ninetales can easily Toxic stall then recover with Rest. Victreebel Giga Drains, Heatran solar Beams, Hydreigon Dark Pulse’s
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Curse – Toxic with Ninetales, Heatran and Victreebel can smash wth Giga Drain and Solarbeam
    • Specially Defensive – Same as above
    • Physically Defensive – Same as above.
    [​IMG] Cresselia:
    • Support - Hydreigon
    • Dual Screens - Hydreigon
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Bulky Spiker – Heatran, Ninetales can Toxic stall. Claydol spins away all hazards
    • Toxic Staller – Same as above without Hazards spinning.
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Specially Defensive – Heatran.
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Tank Physical – Starmie
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard – Heatran.
    • Dual Screens – Heatran.
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Bulky – Ninetales Toxic stalls.
    [​IMG] Whimsicott:
    • Prankster – Ninetales can break subs then heal off all damage with rest.
    [​IMG] Tangrowth:
    • Physically Defensive – Ninetales and Heatran,
    [​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster – Heatran, Hydreigon.
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive – Ninetales toxic stalls, Hydreigon revenges, Dug.
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support – Dug Traps.

    Threats are colour coded in traffic light format. Green - Not a threat. Orange - Threat, but can be played around. Red - Huge threat, pretty much beats the team.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
  3. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude more dogebird
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,298
    Honestly I would of have to of been looking at this team for a good 15 minutes and I cant find a single thing to criticise on. When I saw this sun team I automatically knew it would be based on Victreebel because I have seen you reccomend it to other people ;) Also the format of this rmt and the theme make it very enjoyable to read Luvdisced!
  4. Oristeros

    Oristeros
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Hey Doom,

    Cool changes and nice team. The one thing I notice is that rain boosted hydro pumps are still an issue as most of your members are fairly frail and you are forced to let ninetales eat a hydro everytime toed/rotom/starmie comes in. Otherwise great job.
  5. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    997
    Hey, thank you for the kind words and the luvdisk :D

    Hey Oristeros, Yeah Hydro Pumps are a irritating, but after I trap Politoed it's not much of a problem. Thanks for the rate!
  6. Matrulez25

    Matrulez25

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    hey dude first of all its a solid team and im not the best team rater so i can only suggest a couple of things first things first

    Ninetales
    fireblast ---> flamethrower
    solarbeam---> toxic

    since sunny day will be up most of the time (considering the set your using) i believe fireblast will hit more effectively on opponents that can threaten you and with solarbeam you can effectively take out any water type that will threaten a switch :O although you may need to switch some more speed ev's for it to work effectively


    second is hydreigon

    i think you should replace hydreigon with scizor although it leaves you without dark/dragon type attacks you have a pokemon that will draw in fire attacks like no tommorow simply swap heatran in because of flash fire and you can spam that solarbeam/hp ice depending on the opponent not to mention scizor in itself is a great pokemon that can tank many a water type attack and potentially cause a switch here and there

    other than that i cant think of any other improvements

    its a really solid team that counters many opposition!

    ~ great job!
  7. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    454
    Very strong team you have here,

    Can see a weakness to strong special attackers such as latios, hydreigon, reuniclus, starmie, specs politoed, which could be very dangerous if the opponent can gain the offensive momentum, but such is the nature of offensive teams, and there is nothing that cannot be played around.

    I would love to see some logs of the team in action, also if thats possible

    Great team man, luvdisced! :)
  8. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    997
    Hey Matrulez, overall I much prefer Flamethower on a bulky set for it's reliability, if I'm sending in N inetales to revenge kill a Mamoswine and I miss then I lose my weather inducer, meaning I lose the weather war, meaning I probably lose and then Mamoswine can rampage through. In regards to Solarbeam I need Toxic to take certain threats on better, such as Volcarona who can sweep my team if I am not careful.

    I also like Hydreigon better for it's resistance to water and it's ability to reliably beat the common volt-turn strategy. Although I didn't take in any of your suggestoins, I still really appreciate the rate, thanks :)

    Yeah, strong special attackers can be a pain but the combination of Ninetales and Heatran can reliably check all the threats you listed, unfortunately my po keeps being irritating and I have literally no logs of the current version of this team in action, lol, but I'll be sure to start saving them soon and I'll update the OP with some of the better ones. Thank you for your kind words and luvdisc :)
  9. dadoux

    dadoux formerly Morpheus

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    378
    Nice team and gg for the WC seed !
    It's cool to see a Sunteam without dugvolcadonphan, I mean these teams are not bad but its like a stereotype, there is no point on posting that, thx for building something good and original.

    I think your build reach his limit, if you change something, maybe you will get less threatened by some mons but more by others and it's kinda useless. The only thing that's is questionning for me are Subvolcarona and Infernape.
    "Subvolcarona : Heatran walls it"
    But i mean, with an attack like Magma storm, you will miss it like 3 time for 8 PP, and he can quiver dance again and again and again... I mean, isn't it a little bit risky ? Maybe putting Subvolcarona in orange ? You are the owner of the team, you seems to be sure that Heatran can wall it anytime, so i wanna hear your way of thinking.
    "Infernape : Dugtrio"
    With mach punch, dugtrio can't really switch safely on him, GK or Fire move w/ sun for claydol, heatran / nine / victreebel / hydreigon will get's murdered by his stab moves. Orange too ?
  10. honchkro13

    honchkro13

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    180
    hey there Doom, nice team! It's nice seeing someone else using themed teams where the nicknames actually pertain to the Pokemon. Plus, well, it's nice to see someone using a sun team for once.

    this looks like a well-built team. I especially like how you're using Victreebel as opposed to Venusaur due to Weather Ball. But using Magma Storm, a 75% accurate move on Heatran seems very risky when you could run a slightly weaker but much more accurate Flamethrower or Heat Wave instead.

    the fact that 4 of your guys are weak to water and ice attacks is a bit worrisome. Seeing how your team draws in those attacks like no tomorrow, why not try running a Storm Drain Gastrodon to take advantage of that?

    [​IMG]

    Gastrodon
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Relaxed
    Ability: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Defense/6 Sp. Defense

    Recover
    Scald/Toxic
    Ice Beam
    Earth Power

    This physically defensive Gastrodon takes 62.91-74.18% from a Close Combat from a Choice Band Jolly Terrakion--which isn't good, so you can't switch it in directly, but at least it'll survive one assault and strike back with Earth Power. Also, Morpheus is right, your team looks vulnerable to Infernape, and this Gastrodon can take care it no problem! Also, with four of your guys weak to water attacks, Gastrodon can switch in almost anytime and net a sp. attack boost, so you'll have a slightly easier time against rain teams. It'll also form a nice Fire-Water-Grass core in your team to switch around and absorb attacks.

    I'm not quite sure who you would replace with Gastrodon, but I'd probably replace Dugtrio. Sure, you'd lose the ability to trap and kill Pokemon, but you'd lose a water and ice weakness to your team and gain Gastrodon, who's only weak to grass attacks, can take on water Pokemon, is much bulkier than Dugtrio and overall synergizes far better defensively with your team. As it's physically defensive, it should be able to take on Tyranitar and Politoed thanks to Storm Drain, but an HP Grass from Politoed will probably severely damage it.
  11. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Hey, this is a lovely team. The only three threats I can see off the top of my head are Gyarados (specifically the DD version with Bounce - it will 6-0 you unless you outpredict the opponent every turn but it's relatively uncommon so eh); SubRoost Kyurem / Hydreigon; and MAMOSWINE. Nearly all teams are weak to Mamoswine, but there's literally nothing on yours which can touch it.

    You could use Gastrodon over Dugtrio, as the above user pointed out, but then Tyranitar completely rapes you, and you still lose to Mamoswine. I can't see a perfect solution, Rotom-W would work well over Hydreigon in terms of threat coverage and keeping your lead in to Dugtrio, but it doesn't lure in much that Dugtrio can trap and is obviously offensively inferior to Hydreigon in Sun. If you don't want to go for either of those, then you need to run Air Balloon on Tran.

    Hope this helps :)
  12. Lord Moet II

    Lord Moet II
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    219
    Hey doom. Nice team, it sure has changed alot from the first time I faced it. After thinking and rethinking ( :x ) I think Rotom-C would work well over dugtrio. With WoW and some bulk it beats ttar it also beats hippo which is a big threat to you. I know alot of people wouldnt keep their hippo in on rotom but with volt turn the damage to the rest of thier team racks up making it easier for Victreebel to sweep in the end. Anywho nice team, oh and wtf no shout out?
  13. tikidude

    tikidude

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    321
    Yo Doom, groovy team. I could not find many flaws with it. However, one thing I noticed was that water types could be a problem if you lose Ninetales early. Maybe add something with an immunity? Anyway, nice job! VICTREEBEL FTW!!!!!!!!
  14. Avatar Korra

    Avatar Korra

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    213
    :0 Can't believe I missed this team...it's very creative and Okami is one of my favorite games! I love your Heatran set, I have to try it out sometime!

    If I could make one recommendation, I would slightly change your Ninetales set.

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 64 SDef / 196 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest
    - Toxic

    I don't really like Sunny Day Ninetales. I understand its purpose, of resetting the sun if a Tyranitar or Politoed switch in, however this is a really risky move! Say Tyranitar switches into your Ninetales, would you really risk setting up Sunny Day when TTar can KO in one shot? The only way I could see it working is if you predict him switching in. However, you have to switch out right afterwards, and none of your sun-benefiting Pokemon can take on Tyranitar, so setting up that Sunny Day wouldn't be helpful.

    Since you can predict well enough that you know when TTar switches in, you might as well use that chance to cripple him permanently, right? That's why I recommend you switch Sunny Day on your Ninetales for Will-O-Wisp. Will-O-Wisp is excellent for completely crippling cocky Tyranitars who try and threaten you by switching in. Having one hit against a potential physical threat like incoming Terrakion is awesome as well.
  15. Rwhite84

    Rwhite84

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    133
    The biggest problem I see is bliss and chans destroy you pretty good, I can reccomend taunt over sunny day or solarbeam on heatran as a better way to beat them, other than that nice solid team
  16. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,139
    Ok so my computer keeps deleting my rate every time I hit send. Anyways third time is the charm. Honestly this team is pretty good, so this should be short. Claydol really wants Leftovers because even though that bit of damage you do to Terrakion when it spams Close Combat is cool, you're really not gaining anything in terms of longevity, and you can continually lose HP every turn and be worn down pretty quickly. On Dugtrio, try out a Hasty nature and 0 Defense IVs so that you're always brought down to 1 HP and can always maximize Reversal's power. You're not really gaining much if you have any bulk anyways, considering you just want Dugtrio to trap something, do some damage, then die.

    On Ninetales, go with a spread of 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe and a Modest nature. A moveset of Fire Blast, Hidden Power Fighting, Toxic, and Sunny Day seems best to me, of course with Leftovers. Instead of tanking hits, Ninetales is really only in for one turn intervals, so you may as well do as much damage as possible. Hidden Power Fighting lets you do damage to Tyranitar when it inevitably switches in, and it also helps against Sub Hydreigon, who can be pretty problematic. Rest is really only for early game when you let Ninetales get poisoned, and I don't think it's really merited for a fast-paced team such as this one. Either way, cool team man. Good luck, and I hope I helped.
  17. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    997
    There's a few typos on the threatlist, first off I always go to dug straight off when I see volc, unless for some reason the opponent has gotten hazards up without me spinning them. Usually if it's sub volc they'll qd, then spam sub till I miss rock slide, in this situation I spam rock slide until they're in EQ range, EQ does (54.34% - 63.99%) to standard sub volc. If I do get unlucky Volc can be a big problem, but I can still beat it if I play right, I will change it to orange. Against infernape I never switch dug directly in, I sac least important member then trap with dug, I'll make that more clear now. Thanks for the rate!

    Hey honchkro, I wont be replacing Dugtrio, it helps me win the w\eather war, trap heatrans, and is overall far too important for Victreebel sweep, and considering that's the goal of this team... yeah. I will try it out over maybe tran or Hydreigon though, because it's definetly a cool idea. Thanks for the rate!

    Hey bubbly, first off subroost Kyurem and hydreigon dont exist in BW1 lol, 2nd, Gyrados definetly dosen't sweep my team, I've come across many and even when it's played perfectly at the perfect moment it only took out like 1 poke, lol. Mamoswine is a problem but Hydreigon outspeeds and lives an Ice shard, Ninetales revenge kills, Claydol lives an Icicle crash and gets up a reflect. With correct prediction it's pretty manageable. Air balloon on tran is something I am currently testing though. Thanks for the rate :)

    Hey Moet, again, I'm keeping dug but Rotom-C might do well over Hydreigon, the only problem with that is mons like reuncilus becoming much larger threats, I'll definetly test it out. Thanks for the rate :]

    Thank you for the kind words, tikidude :)

    Hey AvatarKorra, Sunny Day Ninetales is important for momentum and it's also more for Politoed than Tyranitar, if a Specs Politoed comes in on Ninetales and I dont predict it correctly I'll have to switch in something on specs STAB Hydro Pump under the rain, whcih OHKO / 2HKOs my entire team, also if I can predict well enough to know when TTar switches in then I can trap it with Dugtrio XD Thanks for the rate :)

    Hey Rwhite84, Chansey and Blissey can be trapped by dug, Victreebel beats them 1v1 unless they have Flamethower, if I get lucky with Dark Pulse Hydreigon Can possibly beat them 1v1 etc. Thank you for your kind words / rate :)

    Hey Harsha, thanks for pointing out Dugtrio problem I'm surprised I missed that, I'll definetly change that right away. I've tested bothe lefties and Rocky Helmet, overall I came to the conclusion that Rocky helmet was better, but this was when I had Terrakion and the team was less fraiil, putting more pressure on Claydol, I'll test out lefties. I like my Ninetales set, but I admit sometimes my Ninetales falls short, missing fire Blast when revenge killing Dugtrio is a big problem though, so I'll have to be careful. I'll definetly test it out. Thanks for the rate :)
  18. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Awesome presentation, Great Mighty Doom; thanks for gracing the forums with this RMT. Victreebel is such an underrated chlorophyll sweeper, and this team does a great job in keeping the weather up for Victreebel to wreck teams.

    I am not a fan of Claydol in BW OU. Defensive Claydol is weak and set-up bait for a lot of dangerous mons, including SubDD Moxie Gyarados, Gengar, Latios, Latias, OTR Reuniclus, and even Politoed lol. Being weak to so many common moves like U-turns, Pursuits, Hydro Pumps, and Giga Drains makes OU a death sentence for Claydol. It's not THAT bulky with no reliable recovery, and not even a good Rapid Spinner; it's just an odd-looking punching bag.

    I believe that a bulky Starmie may be a better fit for this team. It spins away hazards more reliably than Claydol and comfortably checks Terrakion. It also provides one more Pokemon that can absorb some status from defensive Politoed / Rain-hits for the team, thus preserving Hydreigon's health. With Psychic / Psyshock it at least beats Gengar from spin-blocking Starmie, unlike Claydol. A water-type on a Rain team sounds odd, but Starmie's main utility comes in spinning, checking Gengar / Fighting-types, and Scald burns.

    bulky Starmie (open)
    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    ~ Scald
    ~ Psychic / Psyshock
    ~ Rapid Spin
    ~ Recover

    One of the biggest threats to Sun teams are opposing Sun teams. I can see this team having trouble against Sawsbuck and QD Volcarona in particular. You have no reliable way of revenging them outside of Dugtrio's Sash tactics, which is not reliable at all (Rock Slide doesn't even come close to an OHKO on defensive Volcarona). Your Heatran can very well be eliminated by the opposing Dugtrio (or QD Volcarona can simply carry HP Ground). Sawsbuck wont find much opportunities to set up Swords Dance, but it does not even need one to plow through this offensive team.

    It's a lame option, but Dragonite over Specs Hydreigon would significantly help with the above threats. Dragonite is less cool, but it's a beast in the sun, and there's really nothing that can wall it outside of Heatran (which would be removed by Dugtrio). ExtremeSpeed and MultiScale is godsend for a team like yours that craves for emergency revenge-killing capabilities. Dragonite also provides you an answer to Blissey / Chansey if you wish to preserve Dugtrio for killing a different mon.

    If you chose to use DNite, the standard DDNite (with Fire Punch) @ Lum / Life Orb would work nicely; Lum is the standard, but Life Orb is nice to provide the extra punch in its ExtremeSpeed. CBNite is definitely not a bad option either.

    Opposing Air Balloon Heatran often seen on Sun teams may be annoying for this team, since you cannot immediately dispatch it (and you want it removed ASAP). For this reason, you'd want to change your Ninetales' moveset. I suggest Solarbeam over Rest so it can at least pop Heatran's Air Balloon before it dies. Overheat & Power Swap combo or simply phazing with Roar would also prevent Ninetales from becoming set-up bait for Pokemon like ChestoRest QD Volcarona, DDNite, and CM Latias. Leftovers > Chesto Berry obviously.

    It may also help to attach an Air Balloon on your Heatran, to not easily be eliminated by opponent's Dugtrio, EQ Venusaur, Nature Power Sawsbuck, DDNite with EQ, DD Haxorus, etc. I understand that it's main role is to trap and kill Politoed, but Air Balloon is useful when you're facing against non-Rain teams. It would also help against SubProtect Gliscor, who can be a bitch to this team after it throws a Substitute in front of your Dugtrio.

    Another thing you may want to test out is Memento over Rock Slide on Dugtrio. In exchange for Dugtrio, the opponent's team's offenses are halved. This would actually allow a frail Pokemon like Victreebel to set up Growth against a Pokemon, which is forcedto hit very weakly or switch out. Memento would certainly help DDNite as well.

    Basically:
    1) Bulky Starmie > Claydol
    2) Dragonite > Hydreigon
    3) SolarBeam, Roar / Power Swap, and Lefties on Ninetales
    4) Test Air Balloon on Heatran
    5) Test Memento > Rock Slide on Dugtrio
  19. gr8astard

    gr8astard The Based Lord? My balls!!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Past SPL + WCoP Winnerwon the 9th Official Smogon Tournament
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    316
    I think you should consider roar on Ninetales or Heatran for SubCM Latias, who could effortlessly 6-0 your team otherwise.
  20. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    997
    Hey Pocket, this is an amazing rate, I can see you put alot of effort into it. I'm kind of regretting posting this team so soon after the change from terrakion to Dugtrio, before I was extremely reliant on Claydol for checking Terrakion and since it did it so well I threw the idea of bulky starm > Claydol away, now that I have dug, terrakion is less of a threat and I dont see the need for such a dedicated Terrakion counter. I think I was trying to hard to be original and let that cloud my judgement. I'll test Starmie out first to be sure, but I think I will replace Claydol with Starmie, I'll miss reflect and the extra Dragon coverage but I think it's overall worth it.

    For the choice between Dragonite and Hydreigon, Hydreigon is able to pivot to Dugtrio, Check Volt-Turn, OHKO psychics like Reuniclus without having to lock itself into outrage (Reuniclus and Cresselia can switch out, bring something in to kill Dragonite and then they can come back in later and destroy my team) etc. and although Sawsbuck is a threat it can be trapped by dugtrio if Sawsbuck kills any of my mons. Rock Slide OHKO's every volc except for Bulky Volc who can easily be toxic'd then switch out to Heatran. On paper I'm currently favouring Hydreigon but I'll see what works best after some testing.

    When it comes to Balloon on Heatran it's a somewhat difficult choice usually when up against opposing sun I play Heatran carefully and usually U-turn to it rather than direct switches. I've been testin Air balloon for awhile and the 2 time I went up against sun it was pretty helpful. Leftovers recovery is a plus but I'll decide after more testing. I'm leaning towards Air balloon and I do agree I'm probably just a bit to weak to sun though so essentially; if I keep Hydreigon I'll almost definetly give Heatran air balloon.

    I would already have Memento on Dugtrio, but unfortunately it's actually illegal with Stealth Rocks in BW1. Thanks for the awesome rate :)

    Hey Gr8astard, I'm really kicking myself now, terrakion was my answer to sub CM latias but I forgot about that when switching it out for Dugtrio, I will have to give Ninetales Roar or change a member to deal with Latias, Thanks for the rate :)
  21. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    442
    Hey Doom!very nice team.Obviously there isn't much wrong about it

    I am going to say what gr8astard said.CM Latias can easily beat your team.Your only reliable method of killing it is with Hydreigon or Toxic stall from ninetails.But CM Latias can finish of Hydreigon with a Dpulse and they often carry sub or refresh to shake of Toxic.

    For that reason I suggest u try out Wobbuffet instead of Heatran.Like u said Heatran's job is to trap and kill Politoed to win the weather war.Although it's good it's not reliable since it can't beat Scarf Toed.Magma storm's low accuracy is hinderance.Wobbuffet can do just that.It can kill Politoed and check troublesome threats along with CM Latias(Encore).futhermore it can use a combination of encore+tickle to ensure a revenge kill with duggy as well as offer free set up for Victreebel.It will also solve your Hippodawn issue once hippo used anyhing but roar.All in all Wobbuffet provides a solution to most of the problematic pokes to your team including the huge threat of CM Latias.And ofc it can take out almost any pokemon on the opponents team excluding some volt turn users.With Specs Hydreigon and Victreebel I don't think you will miss Heatran's special attacking power that much.Here's the set(I don't know how to put Hide Tags)


    Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 156 Def / 208 SDef / 144 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Encore
    - Tickle
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat

    Hope I helped ^_^
  22. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,440
    Hey Doom, nice team, and I'm honoured you asked me to rate your team :)

    First off, I absolutely agree with Pocket's suggestion of using Starmie over Claydol, as it's currently the spinner that fits your team the best, though I would definitely go with Psyshock to deal with Keldeo and Jellicent better, though you should also consider using Thunderbolt on Starmie to handle Water-type pokemon better, though it's up to preference.

    As some people has already said, your team has a lot of problems with opposing sun sweepers like opposing Heatran, Volcarona or Sawsbuck. A great solution for handling Volcarona and Heatran better would be using Air Balloon as the item and Earth Power over Hidden Power Ice, and using Toxic over SolarBeam to deal with Volcarona more reliably. However, this change makes you (even) weaker to Dragon type pokemon, especially Latias. While it may look as an ''odd'' change, you should definitely try Choice Band Scizor over Hydreigon. Scizor helps with Chlorophyll Sweepers like Sawsbuck or Venusaur when paired with Dugtrio, can check Gengar, Latias and Reuniclus (all big threats to your team) along other special sweepers and it can check Dragon Dance users like Dragonite.

    Of course, this changes have the drawback of being a bit weaker to VolTurn cores, but using a different Ninetales set could help on this respect. Using Sunny Day Ninetales would make it able to defeat the Scizor + Rotom-W core, but it also will help a lot dealing with 2 big threats to your team- Scarf Politoed and Physically Defensive Hippowdon, as they will struggle taking a SolarBeam from Ninetales, especially if they have taken some previous damage, thus allowing you to win the weather war much more easily. Here's the set:

    Ninetales@Leftovers | Drought
    Modest Nature | 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
    Sunny Day / Fire Blast / SolarBeam / Toxic


    Hope I helped :)
  23. Finchinator

    Finchinator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    585
    VERY VERY solid team you have here doom, I just got back from vacation so cannot take a long look; however, as gr8 said, ninetales needs roar just to give your team a reliable phazor and I must say that Heatran will crap all over the metagame!!!!!!

    P.S: Read the bolded and underlined letters
  24. Miles Tails

    Miles Tails

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    81
    This is a beautiful Sunny Day Team is to not have much to add just like to say congratulations on the great team that did.
  25. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    997
    Hey White Symphoni, although Wobbufett can fill out a similiar role to Heatran, it means I lose attacking power but most of all I lose my only steel type making this team just a bit too weak to dragons, although I appreciate the suggestoin and WobbTrio is an awesome combo I cant make myself that incredibly weak to such common threats. Thanks for the rate :)

    Hey DestinyUnknown, first of all this is a BW1 team so there is no Keldeo XD, 2nd, overall I see a way of dispatching rain easily is generally more important than checking a few threats a bit more reliably that are already covered, but I will test the heatran changes. Scizor loses to any dragonite with Fire Punchas well as any Magnezone set and is generally not my favourite Dragon Check. In regards to that Ninetales, Politoed and Hippo are no longer as tthreating due to Starmie, but I will test that one out along with the million other Ninetales suggestions. Thanks for the rate :)

    Lol finch; luvdisc XD, thanks for the complments and Luvdisc :)

    Thank you for the compliments Miles Tails :)

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)