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The sun team that I can't think up a title for.(Revamped)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by The Dovahneer, May 12, 2013.

  1. The Dovahneer

    The Dovahneer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Alright, ive receved feedback on my team and ive applied relevent updates. Ive gone up to 1700(higher than my old team!) And 45/19(W/L).

    How, here is the new RMT.


    [​IMG]

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 HP / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Roar
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave

    I first started with Groudon here because of his bulk and his ability to start the sun. Not to mention he is a great shuffler, he can also spread para and set up stealth rock. He is by far the most important member of this team and should be alive at all costs if the opposeing weather starter is alive.



    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 48 HP / 208 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Thunderbolt

    Alright, the major new edition.She replaced Reshiram because he was just never seeing use in practical terms because Ho-Oh cleans up everything fairly well. Now, this beast is another answer to Kyogre, taking full power spouts from SpecsOgre(3HKO) unboosted, and retaliating with powerful attacks of her own.I chose thunderbolt over thunder due to this team most likely having sun up, and a 50% accuracy in sun just will not cut it.Not to mention she is fast, outspeeding most Kyogre varents(bar ScarfOrge) and being able to roost off mostly everything Kyogre can throw at her.Ice beams from SpecsOrge 3HKO after a calm mind(252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. +1 48 HP / 208 SpD Soul Dew Latias: 114-136 (36.42 - 43.45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) meaning even the mighty and powerful SpecsOgre WILL get taken care of.





    [​IMG]
    Arceus @ Silk Scarf
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Shadow Claw
    - Swords Dance
    - Recover

    A bulkier take on the popular ekiller set, this varient still can sweep teams, but still takes hits better than the normal set. Mainly here as a backup sweeper. Arceus has the benifit of being able to functon in any weather, includeing the unpopular hail. A 6+ Espeed from this thing OHKOs groudons, Now that something.




    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Volt Switch
    - Spikes

    Forre is the spinner and haserd setter of the set, I replaced TSspikes with toxic because in a tier filled with things that can OHKO him on a whim, he would be hard pressed to set up spikes and TSspikes. I dumped the def EVs into spdef, rounding out his bulk. Other then setting up spikes and spinning, he can dish out a small ammount of damage in volt switch before he finnaly switches out.



    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 192 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def / 56 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Ho-oh is simply one of the best sun tanks in the uber tier, haveing specal bulk through the roof and physical bulk to match, while also haveing that base 130 attack stat, and 2 powerful moves in brave bird and sacred fire.Brave bird hits hard no matter the wether, and sacred fire hits harder in sun with a semi reliable 50% burn rate. Ekiller, raquaza, and other physical sweepers beware of his burn-inflicting sacred fire.



    [​IMG]
    Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Bolt Strike
    - Outrage
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Claw

    Zekrom, preveous kyogre counter, turned scarfing sleep absorber. This guy is my first darkrai switch in, being able to OHKO or 2HKO darkrai and haveing sleep talk to be able to use more than one move(Although what one is out of his will), all of them being able to OHKO or 2HKO darkrai. He also can handle a number of other threats such as reshiram, ho-oh, lugia, and possibly even kyogre.


    Now, this is the end of my revised/revamped RMT, now I hope you like it and give me more constructive critizem.


    Importible:
    Show Hide
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Roar
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave

    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 48 HP / 208 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Thunderbolt

    Arceus @ Silk Scarf
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Shadow Claw
    - Swords Dance
    - Recover

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Volt Switch
    - Spikes

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 192 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def / 56 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Bolt Strike
    - Outrage
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Claw







    The origional RMT:
    Show Hide
    I'm firstly saying that this is my first RMT. It is not my first team, and ive been play testing it.My final score with this team is 52-31 (Win-Loss).

    Now. Onto the actaual RMT.


    [​IMG]

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 HP / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Dragon Tail
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave


    I first started with Groudon here because of his bulk and his ability to start the sun.Not to mention he is a great shuffler, he can also spread para and set up stealth rock. He is by far the most important member of this team and should be alive at all costs if the opposeing weather starter is alive.



    [​IMG]

    Reshiram @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Blue Flare
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fusion Flare

    Next, what smashes everything in its path once sun is up? Reshiram.
    A Blue Flare from this guy in the sun does extremely high damage to anything that is not a chancy, blissy, Palkia, or resists it, and Draco Meteor hits pesky Latas and other dragon types that will attempt to KO.Specs helps in hitting chancys and blissies and just ensures the KO on nearly everything else.I just thought that I would mention that draco and blue flare hit EVERYTHING for at least neutral damage, and that's just the icing on the cake with this bad boy.



    [​IMG]

    Arceus @ Silk Scarf
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Shadow Claw
    - Swords Dance
    - Recover

    Now, so far, my team is totaly sun-reliant. And I need something that can work outside of the sun so if my Groudon gets KO'ed by a Kyogre, all hope is not lost.Meet Extremekiller Arceus, one of the most reliant sweepers in the uber tier. Nothing short of a Giritina or or Ghost Arecus can stop this beast.At 6+ he can 2hko almost anything, even scarm.Espeed almost garuntees that he will move first, countering anything that hopes to outspeed it.Shadow claw hits pesky ghost types with super effective damage, allowing for his sweep to continue.Recover allows him to, well, recover any lost health.


    [​IMG]

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    To put it lightly, Ho-Oh is an awsome tank.106/90/154 defensive stats are not to be taken lightly, and that base 130 atk helps in him dishing out powerful brave birds and sacred fires. Sacred fire carrys with it a 50% burn rate, allowing him to survive physical sweepers trying to KO Ho-Oh. He has only 2 problems, Stealth rock and 90 speed. The Stealth rock weakness can be partaly negated by regenerator, but its still prevalent nonetheless.The 90 speed dosent matter much on a tank set, but it can still hurt him nonetheless.
    All-in-All, Ho-Oh is a great pokemon and should not be taken lightly.


    [​IMG]

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 HP
    Relaxed Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Volt Switch
    - Spikes

    By now, you have probaly realised that my team gets killed by Srock and crew. Forretress is the answer to that problen, with rapid spin and a myrad of hazerds of his own. He can also serve as an outrage tank with those defensive stats, but otherwise he cant do much.



    [​IMG]

    Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Lonely Nature
    - Bolt Strike
    - Outrage
    - Volt Switch
    - Dragon Claw

    At this point there is only one hole in my team, and that hole is Kyogre.
    Kyogre can OHKO mostly all of my team and can withstand mostly everything i can throw at him. Zekrom changes all of that. A Bolt strike turns Kyogre into fired fish, and a scarf and max speed insures at least a speed tie.Not to mention that it will most likely OHKO most forms of Darkrai, and hit everything else fairly well. Volt switch allows for scouting, and dragon claw is for when i dont want to lock myself into a move.


    I hope you all think my team is good and you give construtive critisim and ideas for this team.
  2. Sweep

    Sweep
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

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    Messages:
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    A few notes on what is a fairly decent team overall (having two deadly sun sweepers who can function adequately in any weather is cool...)

    1. Speed creep please. I don't mind that Groudon has 0 speed EV's, but Ho-Oh must be able to outrun support base 90's. I would move 56 of Ho-Oh's EV's from HP to speed. Also, run at least 16 speed on Arceus out outpace Modest/Adamant base speed 90's such as Life Orb Groudon and Specs Dialga.

    2. Zekrom is not an adequate answer to Kyogre, as it cannot switch in on any of its moves safely except possibly Thunder. SpecsOgre OHKO's it with Ice Beam and hits it extremely hard with Water Spout. Timid Scarfogre 2HKO's with a full health Water Spout or Ice Beam, meaning Zekrom absolutely cannot switch in. Even Thunder Wave Kyogre are a nightmare as TWave cripples your only really fast mon. You really need a better answer for it, which is why I would recommend Arceus-Grass over Extremekiller as your team has enough of an offensive presence. A Grass Knot/Recover/Thunder Wave/Fire Blast or Refresh set can work.

    3. Substitute Ho-Oh will be a nightmare for you, as it can burn Zekrom or Groudon while safely behind a sub. Arceus-Grass will admittedly make this problem worse if you choose to add it. Adding Stone Edge to your Groudon can help with this issue. Perhaps put SR on Grassceus and forego SR on Groudon?

    4. If it is raining, the uncommon Omastar destroys your entire team. Again, Specially Defensive Grassceus helps here.

    5. Since your only resist is Forretress, Thunder Wave Darkrai that will be a major pain. It can sleep something, then TWave on the predicted switch. Groudon cannot be paralyzed but hates taking Dark Pulses, especially after a Nasty Plot. Trick Darkrai with Choice Scarf can cripple Groudon if it tries to take sleep. You could try Sleep Talk somewhere on Zekrom since the only necessary moves are Bolt Strike and a Dragon STAB. That way, you have a sleep absorber/professional Choice Scarf exchanger.

    As I said, I like the offensive nature of this team and love your Forretress set. You will have major issues with Rain teams though. Since you already run two Dragons (and type stacking isn't a good idea), I would recommend Arceus-Grass to replace Arceus-Normal. If EKiller is so important to you, you could run Latias over Zekrom, but then you no longer have a scarfer. Best of luck!
  3. The Dovahneer

    The Dovahneer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Thanks for the feedback, although I do have some answers to your comments.


    1. Ekiller covers most of my speed issues here, and not to mention i run reshiram with max speed.


    2. I dont realy switch directly in with zekrom, I use one that will not be effective to the opponent's team, mostly forretress because other than spinning srock and setting up entry hazerds, he is fairly useless.


    3. Ho-Oh on opposeing teams, if Zekrom is ko'd, is actauly a major pain for me when i do face it.Thanks for the tips there.


    4. I never actauly ran into a omastar with my arround 200 battles with this team alone.


    5. I guess i can forgo volt switch, because I seldom use it.


    Again, thanks for the tips/comments on my team.
  4. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,256
    Only change I would say is important besides what thers have said is changing Arceus's item to Lefties
  5. The Dovahneer

    The Dovahneer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    The silk scarf boosts up his espeeds to help ohko grodons and such.
    So....Not changeing my item because its a ofensive set.
  6. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    I'm not sure why you're shrugging off Sweep's points about Kyogre. You basically lose to any team with ScarfOgre.

    Turn One: You lead with Groudon/Forry against whoever.
    Turn Two: They switch in Scarf Kyogre as you set up rocks/spikes
    Turn Three: something on your team dies to Water Spout
    Turn Four: They switch out of your Zekrom and go to Ferrothorn, free spikes are had

    Repeat the cycle every time something on their team dies.

    Grass-Arceus would be very helpful for your team, as Sweep said. You could also try replacing Resharam for a Latias if that floats your boat more. That would probably be better since Arceus-Normal is really vital to deal with Ho-Oh. Anyways, you need a Kyogre switch-in that's the most important thing to have in Ubers.


    Besides that, why not run more speed on Ho-Oh? It can be very useful to get two hits in against Groudon or Giratina, and it's not like the extra bulk is helping you too much. Adding those 16 Speed EVs to Arceus is the difference between a clean sweep and losing when up against a specs Dialga.

    Don't just blow off a good rate, please
  7. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    OHKO Groudon?

    +2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus-Normal ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 186-219 (46.03 - 54.2%) -- 4.69% chance to 2HKO

    Then there is this.

    +2 252+ Atk Arceus-Normal ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 154-183 (38.11 - 45.29%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    You pretty much 3HKO every time, so leftovers is better, if you want Offense give it LO and change its moveset to Espeed/Shadowclaw/Earthquake/SD and invest in speed.

    Since you have a bulky spread you probably want Leftovers. I also don't agree with Recover on Arceus, but w/e.

    Like many people have said before me, you pretty much flat out lose to Scarfogre. To fix this you should try to fit in a Latias or Grass-Arceus, Grass-Arceus can also spread paralysis which will be nice for your very slow team.

    Next I have a few nitpicks.

    Forre's spread is defensive, which I find redundant because you already have Groudon and I think it would function much better with those Def evs shifted into spdef. Now I think Forre's moveset should be different. It is a free switchin for Ho-Oh and nothing on your team likes Ho-Oh behind a sub, spin blockers also don't mind switching in because the worst that could happen is Volt Switch, to deter both of these things from coming in a suggest Toxic>TSpikes. Forre already has spikes in its arsenal and will be hard pressed to set-up both and Toxic will just function better since it can nail set-up sweepers.

    Also, I notice that Darkrai could be a pain for your team since nothing on your team likes going to sleep. Zekrom is a perfectly viable Sleep Talk user and Sleep Talk can easily fit over one of the few moves you have listed, I would get rid of Dclaw or Outrage because BStrike and VSwitch are crucial. I also want to propose a +spe nature on Zekrom, because it can outspeed and revenge kill Deo-A this way and Deo-A can OHKO so many members of your team with SR up.

    Next, I suggest Roar>DTail on Groudon, Dtail can miss and Taunt is rare in ubers anyways. This change also allows you to get past SubLugia, since nothing on your team wants to take a Toxic or ice beam to beat it, except Forre, but they will still come out on top, especially with your current spread and they can phaze you out.

    I also agree with the speed creep on Ho-Oh proposed by sweep.

    Anyways, that is all, hope I helped!
  8. The Dovahneer

    The Dovahneer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Alright guys, I took your coments and revised the RMT. Please take your time to revew the new version.
  9. AuraRayquaza

    AuraRayquaza

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    590
    Something quick. Have you ever tried e killer ghost arceus? As you have spikes as well as sr on this team, you should really be running a spin blocker. Ghost arceus gives you this as well as a solid check to standard e killer (they can't e speed and you can) and allows you to spin block forry. You can run the same spread but will 100% need brick break for those normal types as you don't get STAB on e speed.
  10. The Dovahneer

    The Dovahneer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
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    Ekiller Ghost dosent have the magical power to 2hko Shaymen S that otherwise dominates my team. So im sticking with normal Ekiller.
  11. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,303
    Your Groudon set looks sort of unreliable, and it doesn't even have STAB on it's one (fairly weak) offensive move. I'd suggest you run Earthquake over Stealth Rock, and shift a few EVs (12 to 16) from Defense into Speed. If your Groudon is going to run an attacking move (which it always should), it should run some Speed creep, or else it runs the risk of being burned by Ho-oh's Sacred Fire, etc. Addressing one of your earlier posts, just having Arceus-Normal doesn't mean that you should totally abandon Speed on Groudon. This change serves to help mitigate the Dialga weakness on your team, as previously, on Ho-oh in sun could deal with it (Arceus-Normal gets phazed out if it tries to boost).

    Your Forretress and Zekrom spreads look a little weird too. Why are you running 4 Special Attack EVs on Zekrom when it has no special moves? Move those to HP, though it doesn't really make that much of a difference. Furthermore, why is Forretress running a Sassy nature when it doesn't have Gyro Ball? I'd suggest you change Forretress's nature to Careful, replace Volt Switch with Stealth Rock, and shift those 4 Special Attack EVs to Defense.

    This might just be me nitpicking, but I'd suggest you add a little more to your descriptions. Most of them are rather short, and some of them are a little misleading. For example Arceus-Normal being able to OHKO Groudon at +6 really isn't all that impressive, and Zekrom is not a Kyogre counter and isn't entirely reliable against Darkrai, as the Darkrai user can keep spamming Substitute until Zekrom wakes up, leaving it locked onto a useless Sleep Talk.
  12. The Dovahneer

    The Dovahneer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
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    Zekrom smashes darkrai with a 2hko, and even if they spam subs he will outspeed due to scarf, and even dragon claw only leaves one sub left, allowing for a 3hko. I have absaloutely no clue on what to put in my desc's that wouldent be me mindlessly rambleing on about how good they are from a impracticle standpoint, and i never noticed the slightly misplaced EVs, but thank you for bring it to my attention nonetheless.Stone edge is there so i can hit opposing ho-oh with a super effective attack to help wear them down, and its helpful to have srock on a shuffeler because of the prevelicne of ferrothorn, where i can set up rocks as he spins them.
  13. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
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    What? That makes no sense at all. First, if Ho-oh burns Groudon, which it has a decent chance of doing, it can stall out Groudon's Stone Edges with Roost. Second, Ferrothorn doesn't have Rapid Spin, Forretress does, and your Groudon can't do anything to both of them other than phaze it out with Roar, allowing it to freely lay down a layer of Spikes.



    On further inspection, your team really has no way around Ferrothorn. Groudon and Zekrom are completely walled by it, and are Leech Seed / Spikes fodder. Latias is shut down, Arceus-Normal struggles to dent Ferrothorn due to its lack of a Fighting-type move, and both are quickly worn down by a combination of Toxic and Leech Seed. Ferrothorn can't really get past Forretress, but Forretress can't defeat Ferrothorn anyway, and no competent player leaves Ferrothorn in on Ho-oh.

    I'd suggest you run a more offensive set on Groudon, with Earthquake / Stone Edge / Fire Punch / Stealth Rock, and replace Choice Scarf Zekrom with Choice Scarf Terrakion, as to alleviate the pressure that Arceus-Normal would put on your team (though Groudon isn't the best check to begin with).

    Why Terrakion over Zekrom?
    First off, out of the threats you mentioned, Darkrai, Reshiram, Ho-oh, Lugia, and Kyogre, Terrakion can probably deal with the first three better than Zekrom can, as Terrakion resists Darkrai's main STAB, and defeats them all with its STABs. On the other hand, Zekrom depends on winning a possible Speed tie, and if it loses, may be burned or KO'd outright. Lugia can be dealt with through Toxic from Forretress and Stone Edge from Groudon or Terrakion. Latias deals with Kyogre, so while you don't lose anything by making this switch, you gain a more solid check to the threats listed above as well and a pretty decent stop to Arceus-Normal and Ferrothorn.
  14. The Dovahneer

    The Dovahneer

    Joined:
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    Typo on ferrothorn, ment forretress. Honestly, the terrakion sugestion will be tested, to see how well it works overall.

    Due to the overall slowness of my team, i prefer getting in a few para's with my current set to put this off.

    Ferrothorn can overall be subfodder for ho-oh, getting in a sub on the switch and nothing realy outside of a extremely defensive rock-type(unpopular) can wall ho-oh.

    I will, however, due to the editon of terrakion, swap Edge to EQ.

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