Ubers The sunlight is strong ! Ubers Dream World RMT (peaked #3 on PO)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by oizo 06, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. oizo 06

    oizo 06

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    The sunlight is strong ! Ubers Dream World RMT


    Today I decided to post my favourite team. It is built around a Calm Mind Fire Arceus, one of the best Pokemon I've used.​

    This is how I made the team :​

    Obviously I needed Arceus.
    [​IMG]
    Fire Arceus loves support from Groudon.
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    Reshiram is the most powerful Fire-type in the game and has a useful Dragon STAB.
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    I realized Stealth Rock could be a big problem and I added the best user of Rapid Spin in Ubers, Forretress.
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    Kyogre is a huge threat to a sun team, so I added Latias as a check.
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    I needed something to check all the scarfers and stat boosters, so I added Mewtwo.
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    Forretress was rarely able to spin and was set-up fodder for a lot of things, so I replaced it with Scizor.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]





    [​IMG]
    Groudon @ Lum Berry
    Ability : Drought
    Impish (+Def, -SpAtk)
    EVs : 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Atk​

    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Stealth Rock
    Thunder Wave​

    Why Groudon ?

    Groudon is required on every sun team. It lets me start the battle under the sun, and unless my opponent changes the weather, it will last until the end of the battle. It is also quite powerful, despite the very low investment in attack and can easily take most physical hits with 140 base defense.​

    Item, EVs, Nature, Moves

    Earthquake is the obvious STAB and Stone Edge gives me almost perfect coverage with it. It also helps against Flying-type Pokemon like Rayquaza, Shaymin-S or Ho-Oh. Stealth Rock is obvious, and weakens dangerous Pokemon such as Lugia and Reshiram. Thunder Wave helps against faster threats, and neuters them for the rest of the battle. The Lum Berry lets me paralyse Darkrai, a common lead in this metagame. I just use the physically bulky spread possible (to take on immensely powerful physical sweepers like Zekrom or Rayquaza), but if there is a better spread, let me know.​

    Will Groudon stay ?

    Obviously Groudon has to stay, because it provides my team with permanent sunlight. I'm not opposed to a change in the moveset though.​


    [​IMG]
    Reshiram @ Choice Specs
    Ability : Turbo Blaze
    Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs : 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 6 HP​

    Blue Fire
    Draco Meteor
    Flamethrower
    Dragon Pulse​

    Why Reshiram ?

    Reshiram is the most powerful Fire-type in the game. I often need this power to dent bulky Pokemon like Kyogre, Lugia, Giratina and Arceus. Once Reshiram gets in safely, it can almost always kill something if I predict right, and even if I don't, my opponent's counter still has to take a rather strong hit from a resisted attack. Its typing also helps against opponents who try to turn the sunlight against me by spamming their own Fire moves.​

    Item, EVs, Nature, Moves

    A sun boosted STAB Blue Fire from nearly 600 SpAtk destroys almost everything, and the few Pokemon able to survive it are destroyed by Reshiram's other STAB, the extremely powerful Draco Meteor. Dragon Pulse and Flamethrower are more reliable options when I really can't afford to miss. Choice Specs makes Reshiram even stronger and allow it to spam its immensely powerful STAB moves. The EV spread and nature let Reshiram speed tie with other base 90 speed Pokemon with a positive nature, which has been really useful against threats like Giratina-O and other Reshiram.​

    Will Reshiram stay ?

    Reshiram is my most powerful sweeper and my answer to a lot of threats, so I don't think it will leave the team. However, if you have an idea about a great replacement or a change to the moveset, please tell me.​


    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Ability : Technician
    Adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk)
    EVs : 200 HP, 56 Atk, 252 SpDef​

    Bullet Punch
    U-turn
    Superpower
    Pursuit​

    Why Scizor ?

    Scizor remains a dominant force in Gen 5, even in the highest tier. Dragon resistance, strong priority and the ability to regain any momentum lost are the reason's of Scizor's presence in the team. It is also a good check to Latias, which helps a lot, as it is a big threat.​

    Item, EVs, Nature, Moves

    Technician Bullet Punch was the reason of Scizor's rise to fame at the release of Platinum and it is still a great move. It lets me revenge kill fast, dangerous threats such as Rayquaza, Mewtwo and Latios. Only Deoxys and Deoxys-A are OHKOed, but after some damage, it can be a huge threat to any sweeper. U-turn is the defining move of every Choice Band Scizor, and this one is no exception. Being able to scout with a strong move is very helpful because I win either way (I either kill something or regain the momentum). Superpower is here to avoid being walled by Steel-types like Arceus, Dialga or opposing Scizor. Pursuit allows me to kill Latios and Latias attempting to escape. Choice Band is very useful on a Pokemon that needs to switch often, and I can't afford the recoil from Life Orb because Scizor needs to stay healthy to help me in the late-game. I just used the EV spread for Gen IV Ubers Choice Band Scizor (to survive a +1 Thunder from Latias) but I don't know if it still works in Gen V.​

    Will Scizor stay ?

    Scizor brings a lot to my team, as outlined above, so I don't think I should replace it. But if you think another Pokemon can bring me as much as Scizor, I will test it​


    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Ability : Levitate
    Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs : 112 HP, 204 SpAtk, 192 Spe​

    Dragon Pulse
    Thunder
    Calm Mind
    Recover​

    Why Latias ?

    Because it is the best Kyogre counter in the game. Every team should prepare for Kyogre, but is even more vital for a sun team as Kyogre can weaken Fire-moves and hit a good part of my team for super effective damage with its STAB. Latias takes care of this beast with Thunder, either killing it or weakening it enough for a revenge kill. But Kyogre isn't the only thing Latias can beat. It can threaten Rayquaza, Manaphy, Shaymin-S and a lot of Calm Mind Arceus, among others. It is a very good Pokemon and has even swept teams without a single Calm Mind. Its great combination of speed, power and bulk make it a valuable team member.​

    Item, EVs, Nature, Moves

    Dragon Pulse is my STAB and is useful against other Dragon-type Pokemon. Thunder may seem a wierd choice on a sun team, but I need to hit Kyogre as hard as I can and it brings the rain anyway. This gives me some problems against Ho-Oh, as it is never found on rain teams and can abuse the sun to threaten with its Sacred Fire. Calm Mind isn't really to sweep, but to win a Calm Mind war against Kyogre and Arceus. Recover is the obvious recovery move. The EV spread gives me enough speed to outspeed Jolly Garchomp and enough special attack to OHKO most Palkia. You should know why Latias has Soul Dew, lol.​

    Will Latias stay ?

    It is the best Kyogre counter, something I need in this team. I won't replace Latias and the moveset seems fine.​


    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo @ Choice Scarf
    Ability : Tension
    Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs : 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 6 HP​

    Psycho Break
    Fire Blast
    Ice Beam
    Aura Sphere​

    Why Mewtwo ?

    Scarf Mewtwo has 407 special attack and 591 speed. It can revenge kill a huge number of threats (Zekrom, Kyogre, Reshiram, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Darkrai...) and the best part is that it beats even their Choice Scarf sets. Whenever I am in a difficult situation, Mewtwo is my emergency button and allows me to regain the advantage.​

    Item, EVs, Nature, Moves

    Psycho Break is a strong STAB, and while Psychic is a bad STAB in this metagame, being able to abuse a powerful "physical" move helps Mewtwo against all the specially bulky Pokemon. Fire Blast threatens Scizor and Forretress and gets a boost from the weather. Under the sun, Mewtwo can use a powerful move on both sides of spectrum without having to split EVs. Ice Beam is useful against Dragon-type Pokemon (Mewtwo outspeeds +1 Rayquaza, Scarf Palkia and Scarf Garchomp, a major selling point for a Scarfer), Groudon (eve after a Rock Polish) and Shaymin-S (even Choice Scarf). Aura Sphere kills Darkrai (even Choice Scarf), Dialga, Tyranitar and Heatran.​

    Will Mewtwo stay ?

    Mewtwo is a great revenge killer, and will probably stay, but if you know another Scarfer that fits the team better, I'll test it.​



    AND NOW, THE STAR OF THE SHOW !​

    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
    Ability : Multitype
    Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs (252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 6 HP)​

    Fire Blast
    Thunderbolt
    Calm Mind
    Recover​

    Why Arceus ?

    Arceus is the best Pokemon in the game, and its Fire-type forme can destroy almost everything in the sun. If you give Arceus a free turn, your counter will have to face a sun boosted Fire Blast from 558 special attack, as Arceus outspeeds most of its counters. Arceus is also very bulky : 120/120/120 defenses aren't far from Cresselia's, and unlike Cresselia, Arceus can be a huge offensive threat as well. Of course, the Fire-type means Arceus is weak to Stealth Rock and common attacking types, but it rarely needs to come in more than twice to considerably weaken my opponent's team. The combination of speed, bulk, power, a boosting move, a recovery move and a sun boosted STAB makes Arceus a perfect fit for this team.​

    Item, EVs, Nature, Moves

    Fire Blast gets a boost from the sun, and is chosen over Judgment for its power. Thunderbolt completes Arceus's coverage. I don't use Thunder because, unlike Latias, which is a dedicated Kyogre counter, Arceus needs more reliability and won't sweep under the rain anyway. It's true that these moves are walled by some Dragon-type Pokemon, but Arceus can often sweep despite this. For example, against Reshiram, Arceus can Recover and Calm Mind to +6 and 2HKO with a sun boosted Fire Blast, while Reshiram's Draco Meteor fails to OHKO. Stalling Draco Meteors is only possible with Recover, and is very useful with all the powerful Dragon-types of the metagame. Calm Mind is the defining move, it allows Arceus to set up on special attackers, while taking less and less damage from their attacks, and increase its sweeping potential as well.​

    Will Arceus stay ?

    Lol. My purpose is to create a successful team around a Calm Mind Fire Arceus, so don't ask me to replace it.​



    Well, I hope you enjoyed this RMT. Please rate now !​
  2. oizo 06

    oizo 06

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    Reserved for threat list.
  3. Charmander

    Charmander
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    Arceus is restricted to only 100 EVs per stat.

    On a side note, Thunder on Mewtwo is a horrible idea seeing you want to keep the sun up, because it has horrible accuracy (70% is bad enough, sun further lowers it). Also, this team has a huge Blissey weakness. 2/3 of your team barely touches it, and one of the other two is easily scoutable with the ever so common Protect due to its choice item. The last Pokemon has 6 attack EVs, not good to beat blissey. I would replace Mewtwo's set with this:

    Mewtwo @ Leftovers
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: same ones you have
    - Psychic
    - Taunt
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover

    Outstalls blissey and owns it. Have fun.
  4. twc

    twc

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    I remember this team. Or, rather, I remember beating it. With nearly every member of your team grounded, Spikes and Toxic Spikes are a huge threat, so I would consider putting Forretress back. Despite what you say, I see Scizor as a liability here, having very poor synergy with the sun.

    Running both Fire Arceus and Reshiram on the same team seems redundant. Since you already have Arceus to abuse the sun, I would free up Reshiram's slot for a second Kyogre check. You currently rely entirely on Latias, who is easily trapped and KOd by Scizor and Metagross, common partners to Kyogre. Choice Scarf Zekrom and Palkia are great checks to Kyogre and add much-needed speed to your team. Zekrom has the added bonus of beating Ho-Oh, an obvious threat under the sun.

    Leading with Groudon also tends to be counter-productive. Sure, you get the sun up early, but the opponent can change that at any point. More importantly, Groudon ensures that Deoxys-S will set up both hazards, seriously crippling your SR-weak and grounded team. Instead, I suggest leading with Scizor (or Forretress) to limit the number of layers your opponent can acquire.

    @Charmander: There is no limit on Arceus EVs in Black/White.

    Edit: Since you are using the Dream World Ubers tier, you should change Mewtwo's ability to Tension (Anxiety). It is better than Pressure and lets you beat Custap Wobbuffet. Also, consider putting Calm Mind over Ice Beam, as Mewtwo can OHKO nearly everything in the tier after a single boost.
  5. Charmander

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    Oh yeah, forgot Psycho Break hits physically.

    Also, about Latias being owned by Scizor and Metagross. Because this is a sun team, Thunder is a horrible idea. However, if you replace it with HP Fire, you can destroy your counters.

    HP Fire will do 161.9% - 190.9% to Scizor in the sun, nuff said.

    It also does 105.6% - 124.9% to Metagross, effectively OHKOing both.

    Now, here is the tricky part; if you switch into Kyogre, you can Calm Mind on the switch, then use HP Fire. In the rain, HP Fire will do 82.2% - 96.7% to Scizor, which has a great chance to OHKO Scizor after Stealth Rock (think 94.7% - 109.2%). Metagross is very rare and can not 2HKO you with Pursuit anyway.

    edit: oh, and about arcues' EVs.

  6. oizo 06

    oizo 06

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    @Charmander
    Blissey and Chansey aren't huge problems. Arceus, Reshiram, Scizor and Mewtwo can beat them.
    There is a new item in Gen V that allows to EV Arceus completely. As I said, I only use Thunder to check Kyogre (and other threats in rain). If I use HP Fire instead, I would have to rely on Zekrom to check Kyogre and it is OHKOed by Ice Beam.

    @twc
    You're right that Spikes are a problem (I haven't seen a lot of Toxic Spikers, but they could be an issue as well). I will try Forretress again. I don't really understand why Scizor has very poor synergy with the sun though.
    I'll try Choice Scarf Zekrom instead of Reshiram.
    I will also test Scizor and Forretress in the lead position.
    I"ll change Mewtwo's ability to Tension and try a Calm Mind set.
  7. lordkira

    lordkira

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    I prefer palkia over latias as the ogre check due to its sheer power and its ability to work in both weathers. ScarfPalkia is fantastic for this job, it also double resists water (though not ground), which would give fire arceus serious problem esp with rain teams all over the place.

    @charmander: That's only in Shoddy2. As oizo mentioned in the title of the thread, this is a PO team. PO allows for full EV distribution/spread for Arceus as PO has already implemented black/white mechanics to its battle simulator.
  8. sharkz

    sharkz

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    Just one small thing: Psychic is generally a horrible move to use in ubers, since so many pokes resist/are immune to it. Aura Sphere/Ice Beam/Flamethrower etc are much better moves to run. You could also run a 2 attack set and replace Recover with another attack.
  9. locopoke

    locopoke doesn't give a fuck!!!
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    The idea here is ok but there's a lot of shit that needs to be fixed.

    Groudon is quite frankly a terrible lead as it lets anything using Spikes get up tons of layers. Take Scizor out for Forretress and put Forretress in the lead spot. The set I'd recommend using is

    Forretress @ Custap Berry
    Ability: Sturdy
    Careful nature +spD -spA
    EVs: 252 hp / 252 spD / 6 atk
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Payback
    - Explosion

    Your team really benefits from Spikes and Forretress prevents your opponent's lead from setting up layers which Groudon fails to do. You could run Toxic Spikes over Explosion or Payback but it's not necessary and generally you'll only have time to set up Spikes.

    Next, two CMers is pretty redundant and since you don't want to get rid of Arceus I'm going to suggest that you replace Latias with Giratina-O. Now that you're using Spikes, it's nice to have a spin blocker and thanks to the sun HP Fire will always OHKO Forretress. Use the mixed set on the analysis. Now that Latias is gone you really don't have a proper Kyogre check. Replace Reshiram with Scarf Palkia. Palkia can switch into Water Spout and Surf with relative ease and threaten Kyogre with Thunder, Draco Meteor and Spacial Rend and force it to switch out. With your Spikes support, Kyogre will have trouble switching in multiple times.

    As of now, the team is Forretress / Groudon / Giratina-O / Palkia / Arceus / Mewtwo. In this case and in general, Palkia is a better scarf holder than Mewtwo and having two scarfers is pretty redundant. You can use Will-o-Wisp / Taunt / Recover / Reflect with a lot of HP and Defense investment. This is probably Mewtwo's best set and it will definitely help you with your stall weakness. You can also use a Life Orb sweeper with Psycho Shock for Blissey, or replace Mewtwo with completely different Pokemon.
  10. oizo 06

    oizo 06

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    @locopoke
    I'll try your changes. I just have one question : Is Explosion worth using on Forretress with the new base power ?
  11. locopoke

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    Yes, I believe it is. 250 BP is still above average, higher than most STAB moves. It may not be the "auto kill" that it used to be, but unless the Pokemon is especially bulky, they're going to take a big chunk of damage from it. If you want to use Toxic Spikes, replace Explosion as Payback is pretty necessary for hitting Giratina-O on the switch who try to block your Rapid Spin. But from experience with Forretress, you usually don't have enough time to use both Spikes and Toxic Spikes and I feel that Spikes are more valuable in the long run so I'd suggest keeping Explosion. Also, Sturdy and Custap Berry kind of beef up Explosion, going first and dealing big damage is nice.
  12. twc

    twc

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    @locopoke: Sorry if this sounds stupid, but the way you describe him, it feels like you're treating Forretress as a suicide lead when you talk about Custap/Sturdy/Explosion and "not having enough time to use Toxic Spikes." This doesn't seem like a very productive way to look at it, as Forretress will often not be able to get any hazards up during the lead face off, due to Taunt.

    I'm not trying to sound confrontational, but I was wondering if you could clarify how you see Forretress being used here, as this is of interest to me as well.

    P.S. Explosion deals less damage than two (super-effective) Paybacks.
  13. Fireburn

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  14. locopoke

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    Forretress isn't a suicide lead, but thanks to the new Sturdy mechanics and Custap Berry he can be used as one depending on the situation. I think Toxic Spikes is definitely viable over Explosion, but Explosion lets you land surprise kills on common sweepers such as Rayquaza and Mewtwo.

    Of course it does, but when would the user get the chance to use two super-effective Paybacks against anything? He could use one Payback and then use Explosion on the turn that Custap activates, as the second Payback won't get it's BP doubled.
  15. twc

    twc

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    @Fireburn: Yeah, I noticed that. Sorry, I was looking at super-effective hits. My bad.

    @locopoke: I wouldn't trade away Forretress against Ray and Mewtwo like that, but I see what you mean now. My concern was that, once you switch Forretress back in, it'll probably take some damage and lose the Sturdy. However, you can probably still pull off a Custap Explosion in a lot of cases, so I'll definitely think about that.
  16. calze6

    calze6

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    To me, it seems that the use of arceus and reshiram is rather redundant. Perhaps take arceus out, add a more suitable lead and change scizor to forry or maybe even steel arceus. Your team can't wallbreak well. Consider these options: remove scarf from mewtwo and make it the life orb set or try making reshiram a mixed set with nitro charge and outrage.
  17. oizo 06

    oizo 06

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    Should I use this moveset for a Scarf Palkia ?

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Ability : Pressure
    Hasty (+Spe, -Def)
    EVs : 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 4 Atk

    Spacial Rend
    Thunder
    Fire Blast
    Outrage
  18. lordkira

    lordkira

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    minor suggestion but if you were to use a scarfkia, I'd recommend using draco meteor over outrage. With many of your mons being able to take on blissey (psycho break on mewtwo HELL YEAH! just wanted to throw that out since i'm really about this fr mewtwo lol), you don't need outrage really. Surf can work instead of draco meteor on the last slot for your palkia if you want to use both weathers better. However, Draco meteor just hits things incredibly hard.
  19. oizo 06

    oizo 06

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    Thanks, I'll use Draco Meteor instead of Outrage, with a Timid nature.
  20. trickroom

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    I met this team before. Nice team but Kyogre + Palkia = problem. Latias hates Palkia. Opposing Reshiram / Ho-oh can be huge problems
  21. calze6

    calze6

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    I disagree with DM/outrage. An access to a physical move will be far more useful than an extra special move that you'll nearly never use. Outrage is also more accurate. Replace Spacial rend with DM if anything.
  22. NightShadow

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    sun just amplifies its weakness to fire. rain doesn't.

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