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The Toad and Two Horses

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Jonater, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. Jonater

    Jonater

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    168
    Hello! This is my second RMT and this will be my main team. My team is a twist on the classic Water/Grass/Fire Core as each Pokemon absorb what the other is weak too and use it to their advantage. 20% of the credit goes to Kanwe to helping me build this team and without him, this team would probably not exist. I will try to get Kanwe to comment on this RMT, rating it and complaining how he should get atleast 99% of the credit. Enough blabbering and on with the RMT~!

    Teambuilding Process (open)

    NOTE THAT EACH POKEMON'S ROLE WILL GO IN DEPTH IN ITS ANALYSIS PARAGRAPH.
    [​IMG]


    I wanted to use a threat not seen much in NU and I always wanted to try this pokemon. So I ran a LO SD Sawsbuck.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Next I needed a hazard setter, what better hazard setter to use then Seismitoad? Sawsbuck absorbs his only weakness!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Kanwe suggested to me that I use Rapidash, which has great synergy with Sawsbuck and Seismitoad and creates a excellent defensive and offensive Grass/Water/Fire Core.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I realized that my team was weak on the special side and Kanwe suggested that I use a wish passer as i'm going to switch out alot. I had two options. Lickilicky or Audino. Kanwe reminded me that Audino had Regenerator, so I used Audino over Lickilicky.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    1/3 of my team was now weak to fighting types, I chose Misdreavus to remedy this.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I realized that my team had no choice and needed a revenge killer. Kanwe suggested to me a Choice Scarf Electabuzz due to its nice speed and special attack.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Electabuzz was quite underwelming, as I consistantly used him to take resisted flying type attacks. I replaced Electabuzz with Choice Specs Eelektross and ran a choice scarf on Sawsbuck replacing SD with Megahorn and thats the team!

    AFTER CHANGES:
    I decided to run taunt over will-o-wisp on my missy, thanks Brawlfest !
    Next, I ran leftovers over choice specs and eelektross works alot better now, thank you Dat Blast ! and now is my personal change; I decided to run a choice band over a life orb and ran megahorn over morning sun to bring more power up to bat, since i didn't have any choice band/specs.



    IN DEPTH

    [​IMG]

    Sawsbuck @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Megahorn
    - Double-Edge
    - Horn Leech
    - Nature Power

    Sawsbuck is the Star of the Show. I used to run a swords dance set here, but a choice scarf is so much more effective on him because he gets a boost with Sap Sipper after I bait grass types in with Seismitoad. His speed investments allow him to outspeed everything not named Choice Scarfed Charizard and revenge kill them with ease. Megahorn is run over smogon classic baton pass because I usually switch Sawsbuck in on grass types that gigadrain me and give me a boost so that I can easily OHKO them.

    [​IMG]

    Seismitoad @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic

    Seismitoad is my stealth rocks lead, my grass lure, and my water type absorber which absorbs water type moves aimed at my Rapidash. There's not much to say when he's a standard smogon set except the looks that my opponents give to this mon after I counter their Golem lead. Really. First, I set up rocks, then I toxic them to bypass the sturdy ability, then I scald them to KO. I usually have trouble setting up rocks if a grass type leads against me, but I have Sawsbuck to deal with that.

    [​IMG]

    Rapidash @ Life Orb/ Choice Band
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Wild Charge
    - Low Kick
    - Morning Sun/Megahorn

    Rapidash is a pokemon suggested to me by Kanwe and has not disappointed me since. He absorbs the fire type moves thrown to at Sawsbuck and brings a great finish to the classic Grass/Water/Fire Core. Rapidash usually either functions as a late game cleaner or a early game damage dealer, wreaking havoc on the opposing team. I don't use morning sun that much due to the fast pacing of the match and rarely get to use it.

    [​IMG]

    Audino @ Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    - Wish
    - Heal Bell
    - Protect
    - Double-Edge

    Audino is the best. It serves as a special wall and a wish passer, taking hits that the rest of my team wouldn't want to take and shrug it off with regenerator. The wishes it passes are quite useful as it makes a tremendous difference in whether I lose or win. Plus, it gives tons of Exp in-game, whats there not to love?

    [​IMG]

    Misdreavus @ Eviolite
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 40 HP / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Will-O-Wisp / Taunt

    Missy serves as my fighting immunity and a nice secondary ground immunity as long as the said pokemon doesn't gave mold breaker, *COUGH* SAWK *COUGH*. I chose to run a more offensive response to these pokemon since my team lacked a set-up sweeper and Missy does this job effectively, smashing holes in the opposing team and neting atleast 2 KO's before it goes down. Missy also serves as a crippler, crippling pokemon that threaten my core.

    [​IMG]

    Eelektross @ Choice Specs / Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 172 HP / 84 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower
    - Giga Drain

    Eelektross serves as special attacker to try to even out my physically oriented team. I used to run a Electabuzz here with a choice scarf but I chose Eelektross over Electabuzz because it can take hits better, mainly flying types while retaliating back with a STAB thunderbolt. Volt Switch is very useful because I can use the slow switch-in to get a switch initiative over my opponent.

    WRAP-UP
    And thats my team! I will use this team more over my previous one, so don't worry, I'll take all these changes to heart. Credit to Kanwe to helping build this team. <3 and I will be putting a Importable for you guys to try out my team! Thanks for reading!

    Importable (open)

    Sawsbuck @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Megahorn
    - Double-Edge
    - Horn Leech
    - Nature Power

    Rapidash @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Wild Charge
    - Low Kick
    - Morning Sun

    Audino @ Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    - Wish
    - Heal Bell
    - Protect
    - Double-Edge

    Misdreavus @ Eviolite
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 40 HP / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Eelektross @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 172 HP / 84 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower
    - Giga Drain


    Seismitoad @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic





    REPLAYS:
    Show Hide

    Here's a replay of my team played to its strengths. BEWARE. I get extremely cocky (blame Kanwe, I get cocky around him) http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5nu-68451929

    Kanwe told me to put this here. Tons of early game predictions. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5nu-68467919
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
    Kanwe and Aladyyn like this.
  2. noobcubed

    noobcubed

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Messages:
    640
    The cute thing I notice about this particular FWG core is they have corresponding abilities too :)

    I'd just like to say that this looks like my kind of team. I have been trying to broaden my repertoire recently but offense is really where my strengths lie. I don't see any glaring flaws but a couple of small changes I would make are changing Misdrevus's EV's to max speed (being able to speed tie and possibly burn Sawk before it hits you is too good to pass up), and possibly change Audino for Lickilicky. While it doesn't get Regenerator, it does have Dragon Tail and therefore has the distinct advantage of not being set-up bait. It will also stop Swagpard ever annoying you again (due to its ability Own Tempo - the overall better Cloud Nine is incompatible with Wish).

    I really like the use of Rapidash. I have always seen it as inferior to Charizard as a Fire-type glass cannon, mainly because it struggles against Rock-types, but I can see here that it enables you to take on opposing Charizard much more easily than running Charizard yourself, due to its higher speed tier and Wild Charge access, as well as Flash Fire
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  3. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

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    A decently solid team overall. I love the concept of a three immunity fire water grass core!

    Sub Bulk Up Braviary, Nasty Plot Misdreavus, and Calm Mind Musharna look really nasty to deal with. For those reasons alone, I suggest your own Misdreavus run Taunt over Will-o-Wisp. I personally prefer will-o-wisp, but in a team like yours, taunt is the better option, as Misdreavus can deal with all three of those pokemon to an extent with no issue.

    Baton Pass over Megahorn on Scarfed Sawsbuck. This helps you gain extreme amounts of momentum against grass pokemon, as well as give your Rapidash a solid boost to it's attack stat, as it seems to be your main powerhouse, thus appreciating the attack boosts. The momentum gained from being able to view an opponent's switch is key as well, as you can potentially guarantee yourself a safe switch.

    Opposing Audino and Lickilicky completely wall your team to quite an extent, so I would suggest running EBeltross with Superpower over Volt Switch to bait in Normal type sponges, and to OHKO/2HKO them with a superpower, which you are able to neglect due to the rest of your set being specially biased.

    Overall a very strong team, nice work!
  4. Kanwe

    Kanwe

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
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    Thanks everyone for the comments :D And yes I should get 99% credit >:] Also I fully agree with what Brawlfest says about Eebeltross, I told you before but you wanted a special attacker x.x
  5. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    1,865
    Hey, this is a rather solid team you've got here. Firstly, I agree that Misdreavus should run 252 Speed EVs--this allows you to switch into Sawk and cripple it with Will-O-Wisp before it can 2HKO you with Earthquake (yes, offensive Missy gets 2HKOed) and allows you to deal with Sawk much more easily. Also, I fully agree on switching Eelektross to Ebeltross with Superpower. The reason for this is that regenerator cores on stall teams can easily keep up the pressure with constant switching and you can't really deal with them all at once. Moreover, Lickilicky and Regice are also huge threats to Misdreavus. Ebeltross is able to defeat both Alomomola and Audino, a very common stall core. It also lures in and defeats Licky and Regice so that Misdreavus has an easier time sweeping. Finally, Baton Pass over Megahorn is definitely the better option on Sawsbuck. This is because most Grass-types aren't going to stay in on Sawsbuck anyway, and even if they do, most of them get smacked by Double-Edge pretty hard. Since Sawsbuck forces them to switch, Baton Pass is an amazing tool to swing momentum in your favour and possibly set up a Rapidash sweep.

    Yeah ik Brawlfest suggested all of these changes but I'm beefing up his explanations, also I don't agree with Taunt because then Mold Breaker Sawk can roll over your entire team.

    tl;dr (open)

    Eelektross @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 140 Atk / 244 SAtk / 124 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Superpower
    - Giga Drain
    - Flamethrower

    Max Speed Misdreavus > 216 Spd
    Baton Pass on Sawsbuck > Megahorn
    fleurdyleurse likes this.
  6. overcastzombie

    overcastzombie

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
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    Threats: Looking at this team, it seems an altaria could easily take care of it. Altaria is normally a physical attacker, and seismitoad's scald and earthquake can't scratch it. It could set up a Dragon Dance on a switch and quickly make work of your team, seeing as it is mostly made up of types dragon resists.

    How counter the threats: To take care of altaria, your team needs an ice attack. Even though thunderbolt may seem like the best coverage move for misdreavus, HP ice would do it good. Misdreavus' bulk may allow it to take a hit, and take out altaria with ease.
  7. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

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    Shadow Ball deals just about as much as HP Ice after STAB. HP Ice also doesn't offer any coverage outside of Altaria, making Misdreavus absolutely walled by things like Lickilicky and Audino, with nothing it can do. On the other hand, Thunderbolt is a much better move, helping it hit Skuntank relatively hard, as well as giving Misdreavus a way to reliably attack Alomomola. Sorry, but HP Ice really doesn't work. Also, Stealth Rocks + Toxic + Consistant pressure from bulky offense like this wears down Altaria relatively quickly, and the Special set is walled by Audino.
    WhiteDMist likes this.
  8. noobcubed

    noobcubed

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    I think that was a little harsh tbh. There are a few things I disagree with here and sometimes I think you recommend standard sets for the sole reason that they are standard sets, stifling any creativity. There is a fair thought process behind overcastzombie's post - while Altaria doesn't single-handedly flatten the team, it does pose a threat (although IMO DD Altaria is far outclassed by the likes of Fraxure and maybe even Dragonair, its only sets worth worrying about are Choice Specs and maybe some weird support set that takes advantage of cool options like Haze, Heal Bell and Perish Song). A couple of things on your post are just plain wrong - HP Ice does way more than Shadow Ball because Altaria is doubly weak to it. With HP Ice it is walled by Lickilicky and Audino, but honestly little is different with Thunderbolt, particularly in the case of Lickilicky as it can just phaze away any boosts Misdreavus has with Dragon Tail. I am also somewhat doubtful how Toxic can be used to wear down a Pokemon with Natural Cure, and since Altaria often runs Roost or Rest, wearing it down is not always and option.

    That said, I can't think of a quick fix at the moment. Maybe Taunt over Will-o-Wisp on Misdreavus could stifle support sets but you don't want to be trampled by Sawk.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
  9. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

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    Hey Noobcubed! I honestly don't feel that HP Ice doesn't aid it at all outside of Altaria..
    HP Fighting is an acceptable alternative for Lickilicky
    Perish Song to buy you turns to set up (As you stated)
    Haze beats DD Altaria 1-1 (As you stated)
    Substitute to get you set up turns
    Memento is an awesome option, as the sole purpose of NP Missy is to open holes for sweepers, which Memento is great for
    Destiny Bond for again, opening holes

    As a whole, its not that I'm against going out of the box, it's just that HP ice is completely outclassed/ I know for a fact that you understand where I'm coming from. As a whole, you can 2HKO standard SpecsTaria (64-76)% from full health after one Nasty Plot boost, which I don't feel is outrageous at all.
    Toxic is actually completely viable to wear down Natural Cure! Especially with Altaria, you force it to switch out, just bringing on more Stealth Rock damage, its amazing to apply constant pressure against it.

    Basically, I do feel that I may have worded myself a little harshly, and I am sorry if it came off as so. However, I do feel that "HP Ice > T-Bolt" simply wasn't a solid / effective fix outside of Fraxure / Altaria.
  10. Jonater

    Jonater

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    Nov 23, 2013
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    Thank you all for your awesome advice! I enjoy using Taunt over Will-O-Wisp as it allows me to wall the shit out of Audino and other wish passers. I haven't particularly enjoyed Ebelt Eelektross as it lost bulk in trying to gain a surprise factor, taking much more from a stab flying attack then the specs set.
  11. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Normal or Flying-types like Swellow and Kangaskhan can 6-0 this team because you lack any real way to deal with them aside from revenge killing with Sawsbuck where they can just switch out. Running Golem over Seismitoad allows you to remedy this problem for the most part because it beats birds easily and beats Kanga 1v1, although Kanga's Earthquake will hurt. Golem also helps you against DD Altaria because it can easily take a hit and Rock Blast for the KO.

    You also don't really need Superpower on Eel if you're running Taunt + NP Missy because Taunt beats Audino / Licky anyway, though I would suggest using Leftovers over Specs because Eel generally doesn't want to be locked into a move.

    Good luck.
    Suggested changes (open)
    Golem @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch

    Eelektross: Choice Specs --> Leftovers
    Brawlfest likes this.

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