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The Top 10 Titans of the 5th Gen RU Metagame

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Hakumen, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. Hakumen

    Hakumen My past is not a memory, it's a force at my back.
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    [​IMG] Approved by Molk - Stolen from the UU one

    As 6th gen swiftly approaches, I think it’s time that we take a look back on the entire 5th gen RU Metagame. With the transition from 4th gen to 5th gen, RU was created and we acquired such powerhouses as Nidoqueen, Porygon-Z, new abilities that pushed pokemon over the top or into contention, Permanent Weather ,Escavalier Hounchkrow, Alakazam, and more. With the arrival of Black and White 2, many past threats became all the more potent thanks to more readily available tutor attacks and hidden abilities, especially Druddigon. These Pokemon have all had a great impact over the course of 5th gen RU. But, it is now time to decide, who are the Top 10 Titans of 5th Gen RU?

    This is where you guys come in. This thread will work similarly to the RU Viability Ranking Thread, where throughout the week, you guys will nominate Pokemon to be voted on to be placed as candidates for the Top 10 Titans of 5th Gen RU. The voting for the actual top 10 list will be done in September (one month away from 6th gen) by you all, so that by the time 6th gen does roll around, we have an accurate depiction of which Pokemon were the ones that had a very significant impact on the RU Metagame. Every shift, you will look through the candidates mentioned, and then you will vote on the one that has the most compelling argument on why it should be in the Top 10. The nominating will last until July 5th, 11:59 PM EST, which after that, the voting process will being, with a top ten list determined two weeks later.

    Now, what do I want in a post? Well, what I would like to see in a post nominating a Pokemon is:





      • What kind of effect did this Pokemon have during its time in the 5th Gen RU Metagame?
      • What were its main roles when it was/is used?
      • What caused it to have such a significant impact? (Think Movesets, abilities, base stats, etc)
      • How would you deal with this Pokemon when you are team building/battling it? (checks, counters, etc)
    These are the kinds of posts that show that you aren’t just saying, “Pokemon X should be in the top 10 because it looks cool.” Those kinds of posts should not even be thought about being made.

    Now, for the big question, what kinds of Pokemon can we nominate? Well, really, you can nominate any that were in RU but were banned, any in RU but were moved down, or you can suggest any Pokemon that’s in RU right now. I’m hoping that by the time that September rolls around, we’ll have a significant list to vote for the top 10.

    Now, the voting for the top 10 will NOT be a standard 1. Best Pokemon 2. Second best, etc. The Top 10 will be the ones that have had the most significant impact on their time used in the Metagame. This means even in Black and White 1.

    Here's a list of the current nominees:

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Slowking | Porygon-Z | Nidoqueen | Cresselia | Yanmega | Venomoth | Entei| Cofragrigus | Honchkrow | Sableye| Sharpedo| Alakazam |Sceptile | Druddigon

    Now, what I want you guys to do is to put up compelling arguments on why these 2 should be candidates for the top 10 Titans of 5th Gen RU. But, don’t have all the posts for this week only be for these two, nominate your own selections. Then, on the 6th July, you all will vote on which Pokemon should be the one that is nominated for the Top 10.

    I feel that this topic would be a great idea for us at the moment with 6th gen coming towards us fast and with 5th gen finally winding down on being almost done with the changes in it. So, now it is up to you all. Who do you think impacted the RU metagame the most? Who do you believe is a Titan?


    THE TOP 10 TITANS OF RU:

    1. Cresselia [​IMG]
    2. Yanmega [​IMG]


    3. Nidoqueen [​IMG]
    4. Venomoth [​IMG]
    5. Honchkrow [​IMG]
    6. Slowking [​IMG]
    7. Cofagrigus [​IMG]

    8. Entei [​IMG]


    Voting for #8 .If you vote, just give a little explanation about your choice.The voting will always last for two days. Happy voting!
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
    da gold sun likes this.
  2. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
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    Nominating Nidoqueen

    [​IMG]

    What effect did Nidoqueen have on the metagame?

    Nidoqueen was surely one of the most influential Pokemon in BW2 during its year long stint in RU, even being brought up for suspect twice because of its amazing power and coverage, although never banned. Nidoqueen definitely had a definite effect on the metagame while it was around, causing the meta to shift in the favor of offensive teams, while causing significant problems to stall and balance (although neither playstyle was impossible even while she was around!) a lot of top threats in RU aimed to outpace Nidoqueen, and pretty much every bulky offense/balanced team needed to run at least a check to her to succeed. Nidoqueen also made a lot of Electric-types such as Rotom and Manectric fall out of favor for a bit, as she could switch in on their Electric-type STAB with complete impunity and pose a significant threat in return with her amazing power and coverage. Lastly, Toxic Spikes became nearly irrelevant in the metagame with Nidoqueen around, as not just could she absorb Toxic Spikes simply by switching in, but she posed a significant threat to all the Pokemon that could possibly set them up.

    In what main roles was Nidoqueen used?

    Nidoqueen was mainly used as a powerful wallbreaker and offensive glue Pokemon during her period in RU, using her amazing super effective coverage and Sheer Force boosted Special Attack to smash through the opposition. Unlike other wallbreakers, Nidoqueen was resistant to Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, and Toxic and didn't take any residual damage from Life Orb, which made it that much harder for defensive Pokemon to deal with her. Nidoqueen could perform as an effective Stealth Rock setter as well, although most of the time i personally felt i just wanted to go ahead and hit stuff with her.


    What caused it to have a significant impact?


    She caused liability It was a combination of factors that made Nidoqueen such a dangerous offensive threat despite her somewhat low Special Attack stat. Sheer Force was a big factor in making Nidoqueen the threat she was, as not just did Nidoqueen have a ton of coverage options to work with, but pretty much every coverage move she could possibly run got the Sheer Force boost as well, more than making up for her base 75 Special Attack stat and giving her the much needed power to score those KOs. As i mentioned before, Sheer Force also cancelled out any Life Orb recoil Nidoqueen would've taken as long as she was using a sheer force boosted move (pretty much all the time), making her much harder to wear down compared to Pokemon without the ability. Nidoqueen's typing really helped her out in the wallbreaking department too, Poison/Ground gave her quite a few resistances to reliably switch in on, and also gave her a resistance to Stealth Rock as well as a complete immunity to Toxic and Thunder Wave, two moves commonly used to cripple Pokemon such as Nidoqueen.

    How did you deal with this Pokemon while it was in RU?

    The most common method of dealing with Nidoqueen was to simply run something faster than her that could OHKO her, such as Kabutops, Entei, or Moltres, as defensive checks to Nidoqueen were few and far between. Despite Nidoqueen's bulk and typing, she still had four common weaknesses to Water, Psychic, Ice, and Ground-type moves, that made the OHKOing task just a bit easier. Bulky Psychic-types such as Uxie, Mesprit, Gardevoir, and Gallade were probably some of the closest things to defensive checks to Nidoqueen available in the metagame, having exceptionally good bulk and only taking neutral damage from Nidoqueen at worst, while being able to pray on Nidoqueen's weakness to Psychic-type moves in return. Uxie and Mesprit even had an immunity to Nidoqueen's Earth Power thanks to levitate. Lastly, Bulky Normal-types such as Clefable, Lickilicky, and Audino were good defensive checks to Nidoqueen, not being 2HKO'd by any move and recovering all the damage with Wish, although these all lost to the rare Focus Blast Nidoqueen.


    All in all, Nidoqueen was easily one of the most powerful and influential Pokemon in the history of RU, and i think its a definite choice for an RU titan.
  3. Celever

    Celever

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    I don't think that Slowking or Porygon-Z should be titans, so I'm not putting up any kind of argument for them.

    Cresselia was a wall that could never be broken; getting swiftly banned into BL2, Cresselia centralized the RU meta-game so much and especially stall. Even Nidoqueen hated this Cresselia (mainly because of the SE STAB) and she should defenitely be a titan.

    idk, I wasn't big on RU when Cresselia was in the tier.

    I agree with Nidoqueen, was gonna nom her but figured that she would be a titan no matter what.
  4. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Maybe you should put a requirement like "this pokemon has to be in RU for at least a year to be on the list". This would prevent the list from being flooded by a bunch of broken threats like Cresselia or Porygon-z. Otherwise, this would sort of defeat the purpose of thread, as most Pokemon that would make the cut would either be UU or broken.
  5. Hollywood

    Hollywood time to pay!
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    While I understand your logic here, Pokemon that were briefly in the tier can still have a major influence—particularly those that were in the tier for a small amount of time due to a ban. There's no question that a Pokemon that was banworthy had an impact on the tier: if it didn't, it would not have been worthy of the ban to begin with.

    So while I agree, it may be harder to justify listing a Pokemon that was only briefly in the tier, this still definitely does not mean that Pokemon didn't have an impact. I'd love to see discussion on Pokemon like Cresselia because I believe it could very well find a spot on the list.
  6. Hakumen

    Hakumen My past is not a memory, it's a force at my back.
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    I obviously agree for Nidoqueen, it is easily one of the most influential mons in RU history.


    Both Slowking and Porygon-Z deserve to be nominees because they are/were really influential on the meta. I agree with Cresselia, during its two times in RU, she was an incredible staller, really hard to kill and really influential.


    Well, threats don't have tobe a really long time in RU to be nominees but yeah, they should have stayed enough time in the tier to have a signifiant impact.
  7. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The original Ubers of the RU tier. Yanmega and Venomoth completely centralised the early RU metagame around themselves, dominating the tier with their powerful attacks. Yanmega boasted incredible power and coverage with its Stabs and coverage, and boasted the ability to be unresisted with its Tinted Lens ability or to be an unrevengable sweeper with Speed Boost. Venomoth proved no less deadly, sporting the new Quiver Dance ability which, alongside its ability to put its enemies to sleep with Sleep Powder and its access to Baton Pass proved Venomoth to be a brutal supporter and sweeper for special teams.

    These two Pokemon were the most influential Pokemon alongside Cresselia in initial Ru and were the first Pokemon to be banned from the tier and thus deserve a mention on this list.

    edit: my top 10

    Cresselia, Yanmega, Honchkrow, Cofagrigus, Nidoqueen, Slowking, Venomoth, Porygon-Z, Uxie, Entei
  8. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
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    I'm nominating Entei

    [​IMG]

    What effect does Entei have on the metagame?

    I'm pretty sure Entei has been around a Top 5 Pokemon in usage for the entirety of RU, and has set a gold standard for physical attackers in RU. Entei made it clear from the start that you needed a Fire-resist if you had any chance of succeeding in the metagame (or at the time, a Gligar), otherwise Entei would usually just plow straight through your team until it killed itself with recoil damage due to using Flare Blitz too much. Pretty much every good team is running a Bulky Water, or occasionally a Rock-type, as a way to not smashed by Entei. Extreemespeed also makes offensive Pokemon more wary. A combination of a pretty good speed and an unusually high bulk also makes it a tough threat to take down for many teams. It's honestly kind of hard to see its immediate effect because the metagame has had so long to adapt to it.

    In what main roles is Entei used for?

    90% of the Entei out there are some sort of physical attacker, and its usually holding a Choice Band. Entei functions as a few things in one - a wallbreaker and a revenge killer. A Flare Blitz coming off of Entei is one of the tier's strongest attacks, and destroys a lot of Pokemon, including every single wall that doesn't resist it bar Gligar when it was RU. Another useful thing it has is Extreemespeed, which makes it one of the tier's universal revenge killers. With a bit of prior damage, Entei can finish off a large majority of sweepers in the tier, making Entei one of the biggest threats to offensive teams in the game, as it is the only Pokemon bar Linoone to get the move. Stone Edge hits other foes hard, such as Slowking and Fire-types, while Sleep Talk allows it to be the team's sleep absorber - this has always been important due to the prevalence of Lilligant and Smeargle, during Venomoth's stint in the tier, and currently with Amoonguss becoming a newer threat. With a high attack, a good speed, and a high bulk which includes a high HP stat, Entei remains one of the tier's greatest physical attackers. There is also Calm Mind, which it can use for decent success, but the reason why its good comes from its physical stuff.

    What causes it to have a significant impact?

    Pretty much everything it does is what makes it have a significant impact. Simultaneously threatening both offense and, for the most part, stall is a rare trait, but a powerful Flare Blitz, Extreemespeed, and an immunity to burns allow it to do just that. Its stats also play a key role - Entei is noticeably bulkier and faster than most Pokemon with a similar attack stat. A Fire-typing also allows it to take on and defeat types that have always been relevant in RU, such as Bug, Grass, and more.

    How do you deal with Entei?

    Dealing with Entei is somewhat easy if you prepare for it with a Fire resist - Qwilfish, Alomomola, and Poliwrath have always stood out as being amongst the best checks to Entei. Regirock is rare but it walls Entei badly. Slowking does alright but Stone Edge and even Flare Blitz hurt it a lot. Kabutops and its 4x resist allow it to switch into Flare Blitz no problem, possibly getting a Weak Armor boost, while Omastar can Shell Smash, and Rhydon takes no damage from anything but the occasional HP Grass wrecked all of those 3, along with Quagsire. There were also offensive checks, including Aerodactyl (it actually cannot switch into Flare Blitz, because it gets OHKOed after Stealth Rock most of the time X_X) and Archeops. In general, because Entei is so strong, usually you need to have a bulky resist ready to switch into a Flare Blitz, or risk a painful death to one of your teammates. Also, because Extreemespeed is really common, you could bait into using the move and make it switch out - when it comes back it risks Stealth Rock damage.

    For overall being consistently a great Pokemon in RU, Entei deserves to be a titan.
  9. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
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    I'm also nominating Snover:

    [​IMG]

    What effect does Snover have on the metagame?

    While Snover itself isn't that great of a Pokemon, it does something no other Pokemon in RU can do on its own: make an entire, incredibly powerful playstyle viable simply by being allowed in the tier, Hail. Hail teams are quite powerful in RU at the moment, and have been the source of a lot of controversy in the tier, with it dealing residual damage to almost every Pokemon in the tier at the end of the turn while also buffing powerful threats such as Glaceon, Rotom-F, and Walrein. Aside from making an entire playstyle with many powerful threats viable, many teams are running Pokemon such as Entei, Emboar, Slowking, and Cryogonal to take repeated Blizzards from the potential hail abusers that are often paired with Snover, some teams even need to run more than one check to be successful because of the power of the weather. There aren't any other Permanent weathers in RU to eliminate the hail either, and there never have been, meaning Snover has had a complete monopoly over RU's permanent weather during the entire period its been allowed.

    In what main roles is Snover used for?

    Outside of setting up hail at the start of a match simply by being sent in, Snover can run an effective Focus Sash set that can actually do quite a bit of damage to offensive teams, and wear down potential checks to the hail abusers that are often paired with it. Despite low offensive stats, Snover's high base power Blizzard, coverage in Giga Drain and Hidden Power Fire, priority, and the residual 6% caused by hail ensure that snover can at least do some damage before it goes down. For example, taking into account Flare Blitz recoil, residual Hail damage, Blizzard, and Ice Shard, Entei and Emboar will be left crippled, and completely unable to perform against the rest of the hail team, clearing the way for Snover's teammates such as Glaceon, Walrein, and Rotom-F to destroy the opposing team with ease.

    What causes it to have a significant impact?

    As mentioned before, Snover is the only Pokemon with the ability Snow Warning (or a weather ability at all) available in the RU tier, which means it has the ability to make an entire playstyle viable simply by being allowed in the tier, thats a pretty big impact on the metagame, especially for an otherwise underwhelming NFE Pokemon like Snover. The lack of other weather inducers, as mentioned, also means snover has no competition in this regard, making it impossible to remove the hail Snover sets outside of moves such as Rain Dance and Sunny Day.

    How do you deal with Snover?

    Dealing with Snover itself is easy enough really, pretty much any Pokemon that can stomach a Blizzard and do significant damage in return can handle Snover with relative ease, its the support that it provides for its playstyle that makes the tree truely dangerous, Pokemon such as Glaceon and Walrein are quite threatening under hail, and thats what you should be aiming to deal with, not Snover itself. Anyways, there are quite a few ways to handle hail abusers, for example, Entei and Emboar can switch in on Blizzards from them at least once, and KO with a Flare Blitz or Superpower in return Slowking, Magneton, and Lanturn are all great options for dealing with hail as well, as they're all reasonably bulky, and possess resistances to the deadly Blizzards (although Slowking has trouble with Rotom-F's Thunderbolt!). Cryogonal is another decent way to handle hail, taking Blizzards with near impunity and recovering off the damage, but keep in mind that it can't do much damage in return without a super effective hidden power, which not all Cryo can afford to run. Klinklang can pose a threat to hail abusers as well, using Blizzard as an opportunity to set up Shift Gear while breaking through Stallrein with Gear Grind, although most hail teams will be equipped to deal with it via teammates regardless. Lastly, users of Sunny Day and Rain Dance can completely neuter a rain team if Snover is down, clearing away the hail and replacing it with a more advantageous weather.
  10. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    I nominate Druddigon
    [​IMG]
    What effect does it have on the metagame?
    It makes having a bulky Steel-type necessary, since otherwise Outrage can rip most teams to shreds. Many people now find it necessary to have at least one Ice-type move to deal with this guy. You need to have at least one check to this or your team may never go far. Also, it makes FWG cores less effective.
    What main roles are Druddigon used for?
    It is a great hole puncher and wallbreaker with a Choice-Band Outrage. With it's ridiculous power it is a serious threat. Also, it can be used on Trick Room teams do to it's low speed. To fix this low speed on other kinds of teams it has important priority in Sucker Punch (not to be confused with the awful movie). It is also a good bulky Stealth Rock setter. It has great resistances and a good ability in Rough Skin. Also, it can even go mixed with Sheer Force!
    What causes Druddigon to have a significant impact?
    It's great STAB and ridiculous power make it extremely hard to switch into. It is due to
    this power it is S-Rank Also, it is able to surprise you with Mixed Sets or its Stealth Rock set. It has a pretty versatile movepool with some great resistances to Fire-,Water-,Grass-, and Electric.
    How do you deal with Druddigon?
    Steel types are able to switch into most of it's moves so they're number one. Aggron is able to switch in and destroy it with Head Smash. So can Escaevelier, but it's actually slower than Druddigon. Steelix is able to switch in on all it's physical moves. Faster Ice-types are able to check it with ease do to it's low speed. All in all, Druddigon is a threat to always think about while team building.
  11. Hakumen

    Hakumen My past is not a memory, it's a force at my back.
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    I agree with them as they were major threats in the really begening of the tier due to their ability to sweep or wallbreak and easily baton pass boost from Quiver Dance, respectively.
    I am also agreeing with your top 10, all of Pokemons you listed deserves to be nominees and even top 10 for most of them but it would be great to do nominations for each of them.

    I also agree with Entei as it has always been an excellent mons, despite a bit less when Gligar was present in the tier.

    I agree with Snover being in nominees because it is the only inducer that has already been in RU and despite Hail's low usage, this weather has a big impact on the metagame, making Hail checks essential for all teams.

    I agree with Druddigon being a nominee because now, it is one of the biggest threats, despite it didn't have much impact before BW2. So, I think it won't be in the top 10 but it deserves to be a nominee.
  12. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Nominating Cofagrigus

    [​IMG]

    What impact did Cofagrigus have on the metagame?

    One of the former kings of RU, Cofagrigus had quite an impact when he was in the tier. Cofagrigus's signature set was OTR, which made it quite the dangerous threat. Cofagrigus was the epitome of Spike stacking teams, as he was a great spinblocker during his time, beating most spinners while also sweeping on his own. Cofagrigus also had an excellent defensive typing by RU standards, and he made Medicham a liability on the team, forcing it to crash while neutering Pure Power. His signature ability, Mummy, was a great ability, neutering Scyther and Durant's abilities, making them much less of a threat, while he had Haze and Will-O-Wisp to deter setup. Cofagrigus forced usage of Drapion and Cryogonal, as they were Cofagrigus's only true counters for his signature OTR set. Overall, Cofagrigus was a true titan during his time, and so much that the metagame had to adapt to his presence before UU stole him from us.

    What roles were Cofagrigus used for?

    Firstly was his signature set which made him the top threat he was: Offensive Trick Room. Since Cofagrigus is so insanely slow, he can make that his advantage, making fast Pokemon a liability while setting up Nasty Plot and using two-move coverage to sweep a team. This, along with his spinblocking prowess, made him a fit on most Spike-stacking teams (in early RU, I would've used a team like Scolipede/Cofagrigus/Honchkrow/etc.). He was also a great physical wall on stall teams, as he had excellent physical defense, and he had Will-O-Wisp and Haze as well as a decently powerful Shadow Ball. He fit on stall teams as a spinblocker and wall.

    What caused it to have a significant impact?

    Everything Cofagrigus was known for allowed him to be a titan in RU. His OTR set was extremely threatening due to how hard it is to wall, as Ghost+Fighting coverage is excellent, while Trick Room allowed him to turn the tide of the match. His immunities to Fighting and Normal made him a viable check to many Pokemon while spinblocking as well, meaning nothing can remove Spikes and Stealth Rock that would otherwise stop him from sweeping. His rock hard defense and ability, Mummy, made Pokemon like Medicham, Scyther, and Durant a liability, as they get their abilities neutered, and overall, Cofagrigus could be a great wall.

    How did you deal with Cofagrigus while it was RU?

    Cryogonal was a great choice when Cofagrigus was here; he was the one true counter to Cofagrigus around, as he could Haze+Ice Beam to keep Cofagrigus a non-threat and be sure to remove hazards. Cryogonal was the sole spinner capable of beating Cofagrigus one-on-one. SD Absol is great too, boosting while it TR's and Sucker Punch Cofagrigus to its death. Drapion was an excellent choice for beating Cofagrigus, Taunting it to prevent setup, spamming Crunches to make sure Cofagrigus dies, and not minding either of its moves. Fire-types could also work to keep defensive sets at bay, absorbing Will-O-Wisp and hitting it on its weaker Special Defense. It was also useful to run a Trick user like Rotom-C or Mesprit, particularly with CB or Scarf, since Cofagrigus then becomes completely useless, being weak and unable to set up at all.

    Overall, Cofagrigus was a true titan in RU when he was here, and imo he deserves to be on the list. He was absolutely definitive.
  13. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
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    Nominating Honchkrow

    [​IMG]


    What impact did Honchkrow have on the metagame?

    Honchkrow is probably one of the most famous Pokemon from BW1 RU at the moment, well know for being a top threat pretty much everyone had to watch out for, with great revenge killing capabilities and few counters. Honchkrow was actually suspected multiple times during its stint in RU, evading being banned every time (the last time it was suspected it didnt even get a single proban vote). Anyways, Honchkrow was incredibly an incredibly dangerous Pokemon, and pretty much every good RU team needed a way to deal with the mob bird to be effective. Because of Krow's presence in the tier, things like Rhydon, Aggron, Klinklang, Subwisp Rotom, Steelix, Magneton, and even Stunfisk were used much more than they are now. Honchkrow also made RU matches a bit more prediction based, as players would often have to choose between attacking or going for a status move such as Substitute to dodge the krow's powerful Sucker Punch, and in some cases, guessing wrong could easily mean death. Overall, Honchkrow was a really great Pokemon that definitely had an effect on the metagame as well as RU as a whole, and it should definitely be considered for a slot in the top ten titans.

    What roles were Honchkrow used for?

    Honchkrow's could perform the role of wallbreaker, late game sweeper, and revenge killer all in one teamslot! During Honchkrow's time in RU, the most common set was a Subroost set with Moxie, this set gave Krow some much needed longetivity and also eased prediction massively, which is very important given how reliant on Sucker Punch to hit faster threats Honchkrow was. Honchkrow wasn't totally limited to this set, though! Some players used various Hidden Powers on Honchkrow to try and lure in and eliminate its checks and counters, leaving it free to Moxie sweep, Hidden Power Grass and Hidden Power Ground were the most commonly used ones, hitting Rhydon and Steelix/Aggron, respectively. Despite the power of Moxie, some Honchkrow sets even ran Insomina! There are two reasons for this, the first and most important of which is that during BW1 Superpower and Heat Wave were both illegal with Moxie, so running insomnia let Honchkrow use these moves and lure in its checks. Secondly, Insomnia let Honchkrow function as a good sleep absorber as well, especially given it matched up well against most of the sleep inducing pokemon Ru currently had.

    What caused it to have a significant impact?

    Honchkrow's sheer threat level and level of unpredictability (you never knew if it was insomnia or moxie until it was too late) are what made Honchkrow the beast it was back then. Sucker Punch was a big contributing factor too imo, and without it, Honchkrow probably wouldnt've been nearly as good as it was. Sucker Punch let Krow beat potential revenge killers with some prediction, and even let the bird perform the revenge killer role itself. Another thing that contributed to Krow's effect on the metagame was simply how much it could do at once: it could wallbreak (moxie less so, but it still did a ton to pokemon that didnt resist it), revenge kill, and clean up for its team, all in one slot!

    How did you deal with Honchkrow while it was in RU?

    Thankfully, despite how scary it was, there were many ways to deal with Honchkrow in RU, although a few were set dependent. Steelix was probably the most commonly seen Honchkrow counter back in the days, it didn't care about the Moxie set at all bar Hidden Power Ground, and could even take multiple Superpowers from the Insomnia set, in return, Steelix could set up Stealth Rock to cripple Honchkrow and phaze it out, eliminating any Moxie boosts it may have had in the process. Regirock and Rhydon were great checks to Honchkrow too, resisting Brave Bird, having enough bulk to take a Sucker Punch, setting up Stealth Rock, and KOing it in return with STAB Rock-type moves: Rhydon even had Rock Blast to break through Substitutes! Klinklang could set up on Moxie Honchkrow provided it didn't have Hidden Power Ground or a boost under its belt, evade sucker punch with Substitute, and Gear Grind through Honchkrow's Substitute after a boost. Stunfisk, despite its derpy look was probably actually the best Honchkrow counter in the entire tier, it had a huge amount of bulk on both sides and had a resistance to Brave Bird, and unlike other checks such as Rhydon, didnt particularly care about things such as Superpower. Stunfisk's static took a toll on Honchkrow too, potentially paralyzing it every time the fish switched in on Brave Bird. Aggron could switch in on non Hidden Power Ground Moxiekrow with near impunity and could Head Smash something in return. Outside of 100% counters, faster Pokemon with Substitute or Status moves could trouble Honch, although they were a bit more prediction reliant. Subwisp Rotom is a good example of a Pokemon that could check Honchkrow really well, it had just enough bulk to take one brave bird, could evade Sucker Punch with Substitute, use Will-O-Wisp to burn Honchkrow, or could OHKO it with Thunderbolt. Lastly, faster priority completely messed up Honchkrow, cancelling out its Sucker Punch before it could even move. a good example of a priority user that could do this was CB Entei.

    (this post makes me want to use krow in UU .-.)
  14. HuntSaboteur

    HuntSaboteur

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    [pimg]302[/pimg]

    Nominating Sableye, as during its brief time in the tier it walled every physical attacker apart from Entei with its Prankster Will-O-Wisp and was found on about 50% of teams.

    I know it's a short post, but there isn't that much I can remember about it TBH.

    I also agree with having Nidoqueen, Entei, Druddigon, and Yanmega.
  15. Hakumen

    Hakumen My past is not a memory, it's a force at my back.
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    I obviously agree with Cofragrigus which was one of the most influential mon, making things like Drapion much more common/better.

    I also obviously agree with Honchkrow. It was a dominating force in the tier, making its counters/checks needed for all teams.

    I agree for it as a nominee as it had a big impact, making its ban despite unlike what you said it couldn't wall all physical sweepers because it takes a lot by switching on them and it wasn't on about 50% of teams.
  16. Explorer

    Explorer

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    I am nominating the Egyptian Bird Sigilyph!

    [​IMG]

    Sigilyph is one of the most annoying Pokemon in RU and in all of Pokemon due to Magic Guard. I've swept with it many times and been swept with it. Usually it is this set:

    [​IMG]
    Sigilyph (F) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Cosmic Power
    -Psycho Shift
    -Roost
    -Stored Power

    Given a chance, Sigilyph can stall a wide variety of opponents (Cosmic Power spam) and then sweep with Stored Power. It requires little team support other than something like Hitmonlee or Hariyama to eliminate Dark-types, especially Absol. The burns it spreads makes taking it down from the physical side very difficult (without a crit of course), and it stays healthy with Roost. It was an almost broken centralization, with Sigilyph being such a dangerous threat to the majority of the RU metagame. As a result, I feel Sigilyph should be in the Top 10.

    Common counters/checks/methods of dealing with it:

    [​IMG]
    Use Spore if it is not yet burned, Clear Smog to remove boosts.

    [​IMG]
    Immune to Psycho Shift burns, can bust through defenses with Stone Edge

    [​IMG]
    Super Luck + Night Slash tears through defensive boosts if there are any

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Hit Sigilyph with Taunt to shut down its setup.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Phaze Sigilyph with Whirlwind; Hariyama happily accepts a burn to get a Guts boost.

    For some reason I sometimes see other Sigilyph sets that give it a layer of unpredictability, usually along the lines of a Life Orb set with Roost and three attacks. Two of those are almost always Psyshock/Psychic and Heat Wave, the third often Ice Beam, Energy Ball, or a Hidden Power. These sets have much more immediate power than the more popular variant.

    [​IMG]

    If it can safely come in on LO Sigilyph, it can deal heavy damage with Ice Beam, but must be aware of Psyshock.

    Sigilyph is such a dangerous threat to watch out for. Every team must have a good counter to this menace. Usually that means one or more of the above ways of handling it.
  17. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Although Texas already mentioned it, I'll officially nominate Uxie:

    [​IMG]

    What impact did Uxie have on the metagame:

    Uxie has been one of the most consistently good Pokemon in RU ever since the tier was introduced. Uxie is well known for being one of, if not the best, all-around support Pokemon in the tier with its fantastic 75 / 130 / 130 defenses. The only points it was really ever threatened in usage was with Cresselia's two short stints in the tier. Otherwise, Uxie has pretty much been a Top 5 Pokemon in every metagame. One of the biggest reasons that it's important for every team to carry a Bug-, Ghost- and/or Dark-type is because of Uxie as its sheer bulk means even neutral STAB moves have very little chance to OHKO. Uxie is also one of the most versatile Pokemon in the tier, allowing it to fit into almost any team archtype in RU with relative ease. Although many other canidates for the Top 10 Pokemon of RU made their name on offense, Uxie has left its mark by being one of the best "glue" Pokemon the tier has seen.

    What roles were Uxie used for: I touched on this in the impact section, but Uxie is very versatile. The pixie is best known for being one of the best team supporters. Its fantastic support movepool includes Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Dual Screens, Memento, Rain Dance, and Sunny Day. Uxie's most common set through most of RU is its Standard Support set. This has been one of the most flexible sets in RU as it fits into virtually any team archtype. This set makes great use of Uxie's bulk to check threats, lay down Stealth Rock, keep momentum with U-turn, and spread status with one of Thunder Wave or Yawn. However, this is far from the only set Uxie can run. Uxie is also known as one of the best bulky sweepers in RU thanks to its SubCM set. This set typically ruins the counters to Uxie's main set as it now has Substitute to block status and Sucker Punch. It can also use the safety of the Sub to escape from Pursuit users should they be bulky enough to handle a +1 attack. Uxie even has 2 solid niche sets that work well for specific team archtypes. It's Dual Screen set makes Uxie a prime canidate for any Hyper Offense team as Uxie's bulk usually lets it set up the screens twice in a match. This set also makes use of Memento from time to time, decimating the offensive presence of any attacker unfortunate enough to get hit by it. Lastly, Uxie has a Weather Support set. This set once again uses Uxie's bulk to setup the desired weather at least once, and often twice, over the course of the match.

    What caused it to have an impact: I'll sound like a broken record saying this, but Uxie's sheer versatility really let it have an impact. Combined with its fantastic bulk and ability as a defensive Pokemon to effectively use a sweeping set in SubCM, Uxie has been one of the best Pokemon in RU. Since its two main sets are so different, counters to one are often ruined by the other, thus making the task of handling Uxie that much harder. Uxie could provide great resistances, a sturdy SR user, and a way to spread status with its Standard Support set. Its SubCM set still provided solid bulk, but it also provided a great threat to use late-game when typical checks and counters have been worn down.

    How did you deal with Uxie while it was in RU: Well, it still is in RU, so I can even use the present. One of the best ways to deal with Uxie from the start of RU was Steelix. Outside of the rare TrickScarf set, Uxie couldn't touch Steelix (it still can't) Steelix is immune to Electric-type moves, and resists Uxie's STAB moves. While they were in the tier, Yanmega, Honchkrow, and Cofagrigus could be used to combat Uxie. However, even these checks could have issues. The former two could get easily destroyed by Thunderbolt and the Support set could cripple them with Thunder Wave. As for Cofagrigus, it could actually handle Uxie quite easily in the absence of the rare Toxic. Since RU has moved along in BW and BW2, new checks and counters have emerged. Uxie is next to helpless against Spiritomb and Escavalier while Absol can generally check Uxie quite nicely as well. The most common method of dealing with Uxie is to just batter it with powerful attacks since the biggest detriment to Uxie is its lack of reliable recovery. However, by the time Uxie goes down, it has likely done its job of supporting the team in such scenarios as most Pokemon with strong neutral attacks on Uxie get crippled heavily by paralysis.
  18. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    I nominate Sharpedo
    [​IMG]

    I wasn't around RU back when it wasn't banned, so this will be short. I'll base all my info on what I've heard of it. It was able to sweep easily with speed boost since after a few boosts nothing could out speed it. It could go purely offensive, which was powerful or even mixed. It's counters were priority and things bulky enough to take hits from it and hit it back. Also, it was cursed with very low defenses.
  19. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
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    Nominating Sceptile

    [​IMG]

    What effect does Sceptile have on the metagame?

    Sceptile has been fairly high in the usage statistics ever since its inception, first appearing in the Top 10 in 2012, at one point it was the #1, and now it consistently appears in the Top 5. This is due to a lot of things, but namely, its because Sceptile is one of the fastest Pokemon in RU. Although Sceptile is a Grass-type, and RU has no shortage of Grass-types in the tier, Sceptile's primary advantage goes beyond just its high speed - it is also extremely versatile. Unlike all Grass-types other than Simisage, it gets Focus Blast, allowing it to defeat Steel-types and use Hidden Power Rock for Fire- and Flying-types without limiting its coverage, a trait no other Grass-type can claim, allowing it to defeat Bouffalant (who almost walls other Grass-types) with relative ease and allow it to hit most of the relevant Grass resists hard with both Focus Blast and HP Rock - even Druddigon doesn't take a Focus Blast lightly. As a result, people need to run different checks for Sceptile than they would other Grass-types such as the aforementioned Druddigon, as Sceptile destroys all the Sap Sippers in the tier. It indirectly also causes Pokemon to use Sleep Talk, because none of the sleep absorbers can defeat Sceptile. Sceptile also creates a benchmark for Choice Scarfed Pokemon - if Emboar was just a little bit slower, I doubt it would be as good of a Choice Scarfer, for example.

    In what main roles is Sceptile used for?

    Quite a few actually. Three variants of Sceptile exist - ones using Substitute, ones using Leaf Storm, and ones using Swords Dance (there is also the rogue subseeder). The ones using Substitute attempt to get down into Overgrow range using that and a Life Orb, hit hard with Giga Drain to heal themselves up, while keeping other Pokemon that resist Grass in check with Focus Blast (which is stronger than Giga Drain after STAB) and HP Rock. The ones that use Leaf Storm usually also hold a Life Orb (or Choice Specs), and unleash one of the hardest hitting attacks in RU, while using its other moves mainly for coverage or in case it wants to convserve Leaf Storm - it can be a nasty surprise when you take around 40% damage from Giga Drain and then all of a sudden get smacked by a Leaf Storm and faint and get KOed. Swords Dance variants are also useful, but their main merit is the ability to get past some of Sceptile's traditional counters, such as Roselia, Accelgor (after Unburden), and more. Even then, its a Pokemon you can't outspeed at +2 potentially, so it can still do damage with the correct support, possibly sweep late game.

    What causes it to have a significant impact?

    You don't have a full idea of what Sceptile was running at first - as a result, Sceptile really has no conventional counters. Sceptile is only outsped by 3 Pokemon even remotely noteworthy in RU (Accelgor, Aerodactyl, Swellow) as well, which makes it difficult to outpace without a Choice Scarfer. The ability to destroy Slowking and other bulky waters is nice, due to how relevant they have always been, but it could also deal with some former threats too, including Nidoqueen (with Leaf Storm it could OHKO it). It is a lot more different than other Grass-types and is in general harder to wall, unlike other Grass-types which can get walled a lot easier by the appropriate Pokemon.

    How do you deal with Sceptile?

    As previously mentioned, there is no Pokemon that can claim to counter Sceptile (that is, switch in and then retaliate) as they all get potentially defeated by one of Sceptile's sets - it is, however, possible to check. Druddigon makes the best general switch in, as it resists Grass moves and isn't weak to any of its coverage moves bar the nonexistant HP Ice, and can retaliate with a Dragon STAB although be wary Focus Blast can 2HKO if it hits both times, and a Specs Leaf Storm shaves off about 50% as well. Accelgor outspeeds and OHKOs while resisting Grass - simple as that - but HP Rock and Acrobatics hurts (and outspeeds due to Unburden). Fortunately HP Rock cannot kill it iirc. Amoonguss and Roselia wall the special sets forever, but Acrobatics destroys both of them on the Swords Dance set. Because Sceptile is so frail, Entei makes an excellent revenge killer to it with Extreemespeed, and most Choice Scarf users that are physical can OHKO, weakness or not, such as Scarf Emboar, Swellow, Scarf Medicham, Aerodactyl, etc, while Emboar can switch into its STAB. Physical sets are easier to wall but harder to revenge kill due to Sceptile's average attack stat and dependancy on a Flying Gem oftentimes - as long as you have a good bulk you're fine, and even Steelix and the like can claim to deal with it despite being weak to Earthquake.

    Overall, Sceptile has been the top Grass-type in the tier aside for a while when Lilligant was suspected, so I think it deserves a spot.
  20. Hakumen

    Hakumen My past is not a memory, it's a force at my back.
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    Sorry but Sigilyph can't be a nominee. The Cosmic Power set isn't efficace and outlassed by the LO Roost + 3 Attacks which is the best set and even with this set it can't be a nominee. Plus it is neither broken nor centralazing because it loses to many things, read this article to know more about why Cosmic Power Sigilyph isn't good and its real counters.

    I agree with Uxie which has always had an impact on the metagame.

    I agree with Sharpedo which was probably the best Late Game Sweeper when it was in the tier before he became UU but making explanations would be great. When it was RU, the main way to deal with it it mons that can take a hit from it in Late Game because it was sure to get OHKO then because of its low defense and the fact that it was only used in Late Game.

    I agree with Sceptile which has always been used a lot and had a big impact on the meta despite less when Lilligant got suspected.
  21. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Nominating Gallade

    [​IMG]

    What effect does Gallade have on the metagame?:

    Put simply, Gallade has been one of the best physical sweepers in RU since the tier came into existence. Its sky-high base 125 Attack stat alongside a decent base 80 Speed stat allows Gallade to just lay waste to many of the tier's defensive Pokemon with its overwhelming power and fantastic coverage. Gallade can sweep on Offensive teams, Bulky Offense teams, and Balance teams alike. It has 2 great boosting moves and a fantastic offensive movepool that has just about everything you could ask for and more. It can even perform well on more defensive-minded teams thanks to a unique typing and supporting movepool to go along with it. However, more than anything, Gallade is the standard that all other Fighting-types seem to be measured against. While other Fighting-types such as Hitmonlee, Poliwrath, Hitmonchan, and Hariyama have all been good at one point or another, Gallade is the one Fighting-type that has remained a consistent, relevant threat in RU as it seemingly always cracks the Top 10 in usage.

    In what main roles are Gallade used for?:

    Gallade is primarily used as a physical sweeper and/or wallbreaker, but there are many ways to go about this. Gallade has 5 very viable sets in the current meta and all throughout RU, it has had at least 3 viable offensive sets (usually 4) Its main set is an Offensive SD set. This set can be played in 2 different fashions. It can either be used as a sweeper with a Lum Berry, or the user can utilize Gallade's amazing power with a Life Orb to turn Gallade into more of a wallbreaker with the opportunity to sweep if SD is used. However, what makes Gallade so good is that even if it reveals Swords Dance, you still can't be sure of how it's EVed. This is because Gallade's other main set is a Bulky SD set. This shines some light on Gallade's solid base 115 Special Defense and utilizies Drain Punch as its main STAB move instead of Close Combat. For players wanting to preserve Gallade's sweeping potential while also letting Gallade tank a couple of hits, this is a perfect set. So, even when SD is used, the player still has to be careful since Gallade could use brute force in Close Combat, but it could also be safer and more tenacious with Drain Punch. As great as both variants of SD Gallade are, it has other sets. With significant investment in HP and Special Defense, Gallade can run an incredibly potent Bulk Up set. While this may seem to detract from Gallade's offensive potential, it can bolster it by making it incredibly difficult to do the one thing that is usually easier to do on most offensive variants of Gallade; revenge kill it. With Bulk Up shoring up Gallade's suspect Defense while boosting its Attack, Bulk Up Gallade can be an offensive team's worst nightmare. It commonly runs Sub as well meaning that Stall teams are also pretty much screwed if there isn't a phazer or Gallade is the last Pokemon remaining. As great of a boosting sweeper as Gallade is, there are 2 other sets that it can run to great effect. By slapping a Choice Band on Gallade, the user now wields one of the most potent wallbreakers in the tier. It even has priority to double up as a revenge killer of weakened threats! If offense isn't your cup of tea, then Gallade can also surprise many by effectively running a Specially Defensive set. Although not discovered until rather recently, Specially Defensive Gallade provides a Stall team with special bulk and offensive presence, the latter of which is something most Stall teams lack. With Wish, Will-O-Wisp, Protect, and Drain Punch, Gallade can become a very annoying wall to take down.

    What causes Gallade to have a significant impact:

    Gallade has power, coverage, priority, and versatility. Even when Gallade uses its main boosting move, SD, you still can't be fully sure of the set and when you're talking about an offensive presence like Gallade, uncertainty can lead to disaster. About the only things Gallade can't do is be a Special Sweeper and be a physical wall. It can sweep, wallbreak, wall, outlast, and revenge kill (sort of) Gallade is a fairly big reason why Pokemon such as Uxie, Spiritomb, and Slowking are so much better than they already are. If you don't have a way to answer Gallade, you won't win many RU battles.

    How do you handle Gallade?:

    There is no catch-all answer to Gallade. Since every set Gallade runs varies in its role and moves, it usually takes a combination of Pokemon to beat Gallade. Probably the hardest thing to deal with is Gallade's movepool. It's so wide, that it has an answer for just about everything. That said, there are Pokemon who can do well in general against it. Spiritomb is perhaps the safest response. Shadow Sneak is able to 2HKO every unboosted Gallade, but the Specially Defensive set can burn it before healing back up with Wish. Stuff like Entei and Moltres can weather a hit if SR is off the field before maiming Gallade with their STAB moves. Escavalier and Mesprit are two other solid options though the latter has to beware of Night Slash. Uxie, Slowking, and Life Orb Sigilyph can generally handle Gallade, but like Mesprit, they much all be wary of Night Slash. Revenge killing is the most common method of dealing with Gallade though. Braviary and Swellow are perhaps the best 2 for the job. Both are immune to Shadow Sneak and have a powerful STAB Brave Bird to run through Gallade. Archeops, Sceptile (with Acrobatics) Tauros, Rotom, and Sigilyph can also revenge kill Gallade. However, outside of Tauros, all of these Pokemon face the prospect of possibly taking a +2 or Choice Band-boosted Shadow Sneak. All of these Pokemon will also have a much harder time with the Bulk Up set since it may have a Sub up and/or Defense boosts.
  22. Hakumen

    Hakumen My past is not a memory, it's a force at my back.
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    I agree with Gallade because it has always been an excellent Pokemon in the tier and the best Fighting-type, imo but I guess he won't be high in the top 10 but still deserves to be a nominee.
  23. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    i'd like to do a quadruple nomination here: Moltres, Alakazam, Gorebyss, and Gothitelle
    [​IMG] and [​IMG] and [​IMG] and [​IMG]
    Alakazam was an extremely threatening sweeper and was just plain broken with Magic Guard. Moltres is a great offensive Pokemon, although it is hampered by SR. I think both deserve to have nominations. Gorebyss was extremely good at Baton Passing SS boosts. Even though SS+BP is banned it should be nominated because at one point it was extremely scary. When Gothitelle was in the tier it was a great Revenge Killer with Shadow Tag. This was extremely short however since it was banned to BL. It is one of the only Pokemon to be banned straight to BL, which I think is deserving of Titan nomination.
  24. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    I think Blastoise should be on there. It was one of the best spinners and one of the best walls the time it was in the tier.
  25. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest lovin'
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    Nominating Krookodile

    [​IMG]

    What impact did Krookodile have on the RU metagame?

    It's been a long time since Krookodile was here, but he had quite an impact. He had an excellent STAB combo with Earthquake and Crunch, with a solid Attack stat to use them with, while he had a pretty solid Speed tier of 92, even if he got outpaced by Scolipede, and even then Krookodile was an effective sweeper, and he was easily one of the best sweepers available, bluffing a Scarf and sweeping. He was excellent on Spike-stacking teams, as the Spikes allowed him to get the KO's more easily, and after he attains boosts, he's pretty much golden in the sweeping department. He also made Drapion and Uxie a liability a lot, because they get countered pretty handily by him. His access to Pursuit, along with the switches he forces, made him one of the best Pursuit trappers around, and he was a true threat to contend with.

    In what main roles were Krookodile used for?

    He had a pretty simple role, although he did it extremely well: Sweep like a boss, knocking out a target, grabbing a Moxie boost, and get the snowball rollin'. He also served other roles with just a single set, as he was also an excellent revenge killer, revenging threats like Accelgor and Scolipede with his cookie cutter Scarf set. Basically, he was revenge killer+sweeper in simply one teamslot. His incredible coverage in EQ+Crunch alone made him quite vicious, and he was one of the epitomes of Offensive Spike-stacking teams due to his massive sweeping potential, attaining more easy KO's while becoming harder to stop with the Moxie boosts. He could also break down defensive teams with an LO set, using his power to break down walls, more or less a decent wallbreaker. He was also one of the better Pursuit trappers in RU, keeping threats like Rotom-N and Uxie at bay, not minding their moves thanks to his typing while sweeping. He could also run a SubBU set to bulk up while using things it forces out as complete setup fodder.

    What caused it to have a significant impact?

    Krookodile's ability to decimate teams is what made him so damn good. Moxie, excellent STAB combo, reasonable Speed tier; that made him a high level threat, and was a game-winning Pokemon. His typing was pretty decent defensively as well, as he could check Uxie, Drapion, Rotom-N, and others. You could never be certain whether he had Scarf or LO, and either one could threaten certain kinds of teams. Being one of few viable answers to Uxie and even Cress when it was here was excellent, which also made Krookodile a pretty good Pokemon. His good coverage, stats, and Moxie were key to his success.

    How did you deal with Krookodile while it was RU?

    Well, although Krookodile was a massive threat, there were ways to deal with him. Tangrowth is insanely bulky and resists EQ, which made it a great answer to Krookodile. Poliwrath too, was also a very viable answer to Krookodile, having enough bulk to take an unboosted Krookodile's EQ while retaliating with either Scald or Circle Throw. You could also check Krook, such as with Sash variants of Scolipede/Accelgor, taking something and hitting back with Bug STAB to stop him. Hitmonchan was a decent check to Krookodile, using its Mach Punch to literally put an end to Krookodile. The same could potentially apply to Feraligatr. Primeape was also a decent check, as it ran Scarf, is naturally faster than Krook, and has CC to smash him. Outside of that, there weren't too many counters available.

    (man I really want to use this thing in UU now)

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