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The Top 10 Titans of the 5th Gen RU Metagame

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Hakumen, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. Hakumen

    Hakumen Hot grill
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    Thanks everybody for your suggestions

    Mack the Knife : I agree with Alakazam and Moltres, the former was really centralazing when it was in the tier. The later doesn't have a so big impact but still enough to be a nominee. For Gorebyss, I can't agree, it didn't have enough impact and for Gothitelle, it had a big impact but didn't stay enough time in the tier so its impact wasn't THAT big and so I won't add it.

    Nozzle: Sorry but I can't agree with Blastoise, it might be a bulky Spiner but it wasn't one of the best walls and didn't have much impact.

    ScraftyIsTheBest : I will add Krookodile because it was one of the best Scarfers at its time and maybe soon if it will drop to RU.
  2. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    I'm not trying to sound inconsiderate of what you've said, but didn't Gorebyss force the tier to ban SmashPass? or was that Smeargle?
  3. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    It was both Gorebyss and Smeargle, but even though SmashPass was broken, Gorebyss and Smeargle started out in NU, and only Smeargle barely made it up, and then when SmashPass got banned, their usage didn't change much other than Gorebyss just becoming even more uncommon. Nothing became a liability during its time either, and Gorebyss itself wasn't a threat.

    Even though SmashPass was broken its impact on the tier was admittedly somewhat minimal. The fact that Gorebyss has never (officially) been RU goes to show that it isn't really deserving of a titan.
  4. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest DreamDream
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    Nominating Lilligant

    [​IMG]

    What impact does Lilligant have on the RU metagame?

    Take word from the very first sentence in her RU analysis-"From the dawn of RU to the present day, Lilligant has been a top tier threat". Lilligant has always been (and still is) one of RU's most threatening sweepers, to the point where she even was suspect tested at one point (albeit deemed not broken). Even then, that should really give you a testament as to how powerful she is in RU. She has one of the best boosting moves in the game, Quiver Dance, which is basically a special Dragon Dance on steroids, which after a number of boosts, make her pretty scary as she becomes extremely powerful and fast after boosts. Lilligant also has Sleep Powder, which means she can put one opponent to sleep for absolutely free. The sleep mechanics also help, so she can use free turns to grab QD boosts and become extremely scary. She isn't as good as she was in the past (mostly due to things like Escav and Drudd rising to power), but is still a prominent threat that should be looked out for.

    In what main roles are Lilligant used for?

    Special sweeping is basically her game. Sleep Powder allows her to eliminate a counter, and after some boosts she can just blast the team with Giga Drain and Hidden Power like a hot knife through butter. She is such a big threat as a sweeper it's not even funny. It's a basic set, although her Speed is reasonable enough to make sure anything faster better do something and prevent her from getting boosts. It's a simple role, albeit done very well. She also is a great user of Choice Scarf, as she's a pretty solid revenge killer, hitting pretty hard with Leaf Storm, having Scarf Sleep Powder (kinda like Jynx) to surprise things like Scolipede that expect to beat her one-on-one, and also heal a teammate. She also functions very well on sun teams thanks to Chlorophyll making her fast as hell in the sun.

    What causes it to have a significant impact?

    Quiver Dance. Sleep Powder. That's all. This is particularly what makes Lilligant so threatening as a sweeper; she can put one opponent to sleep for free, while proceeding to set up and becoming faster and stronger. After that, Giga Drain and HP Fire / Rock allow her to just sweep her way through the team, again, like a hot knife through butter. Her imperfect coverage is a bit of an issue, but with counters gone, she can just sweep through. Grass typing was also something good.

    How do you deal with Lilligant?

    Sleep Talk users are a pretty good way to handle her, as they can come in on her Sleep Powder and still react. Pokemon such as Entei, Escavalier, and even lol Munchlax can come in and do what they want. Entei and Escavalier can call up their STAB move to just plain destroy her, while even lol Munchlax was relevant at one point, and he could just take anything from her thanks to his high SpD, and paralyze her or remove her boosts with Whirlwind. Druddigon is also a pretty good way, as it can take anything from it while smashing it with Outrage. Bouffalant is a viable full stop, using Sleep Powder as an Attack boost and proceeding to destroy her.
  5. Hakumen

    Hakumen Hot grill
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    I agree with Lilligant which has always been excellent in the tier. I'll add it
  6. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    Uxie, Gallade, Sceptile, Moltres, Lilligant, Snover, Krookodile, and Druddigon were never dominant, they were a top 4-5 pokemon (well not snover) at one point but that doesn't merit inclusion on this list. Everything else at one point was dominant, which is a step past extremely good.
  7. Hakumen

    Hakumen Hot grill
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    After thinking a bit to this, I have to agree with you so I edited the post
  8. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I'd say that Sceptile and Druddigon have been "dominant" before.

    Sceptile was actually #1 the month after Cofagrigus moved up and a while after Nidoqueen dropped down, and by a fair margin I may add. It has also had a few appearances as #2.

    | 1 | Sceptile | 10082 | 19.684% | 7879 | 18.598% |
    | 2 | Nidoqueen | 8714 | 17.014% | 7216 | 17.033% |

    I also remember at one point a few people were calling it "the best Pokemon in RU," such as in the September usage statistics. Maybe #1 wasn't exactly the right spot for Sceptile then, but still, everything else who has been at #1 is on this list (except Claydol who was universally regarded as bad on the forums)

    Even though its had a rough history, Druddigon is fairly dominant right now, being a Top-S threat and almost certainly the 2nd best Pokemon in RU at the moment, so its kind of a late bloomer but still dominant now regardless I'd say.

    I don't really care about the others being removed but these two at least deserve a nom imo. There are only 12 Pokemon on the list at the moment and that gives a rather small pool for a Top 10.

    EDIT: To the below, I remember Krookodile as threatening but not dominant. It was very good no doubt but it happened to be in the tier the same time as Honchkrow, and iirc never cracked even the top 5.
  9. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    ^I agree. Also, wasn't Krookodile a huge threat back in the day? Also, Snover has brought forth a dominant playstyle.
  10. Heroes and Cons

    Heroes and Cons

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    I want to nominate Accelgor:

    [​IMG]

    Accelgor has many traits that make it one of the most powerful and dangerous Pokemon in RU. First and foremost, it is the fastest unboosted pokemon in the tier, and the second fastest Pokemon outside Ubers. Accelgor's STAB and coverage moves are excellent and very few things can claim to safely wall Accelgor - it has a great offensive STAB move, with LO Bug buzz OHKOing or 2HKOing every non-resist in the tier except Clefable and Munchlax (the latter of whcih is never seen), who get pummeled to hell and back by Focus Blast. Accelgor can also OHKO Pokemon like Quagsire, Seismitoad and even Eviolite Rhydon (if they don't invest in special defense) with Giga Drain, which also heals Accelgor of residual damage and does good damage to Pokemon like Lanturn, who could otherwise pose problems. combines with Hidden power, it can attain perfect coverage and threaten almost every Pokemon in the tier. Another notable feature is that it can sweep through entire Hail teams as long as it doesn't miss focus blast, due to its impressive power and massive speed, making it an effective check to the dangerous playstyle.

    Accelgor not only outspeeds and threatens to destroy everything without a scarf or massive special bulk, but it has multiple other options to support the team. A good Spikes supporter is hard to find in RU, but with its massive speed and great coverage it becomes an excellent offensive spiker, simultaneously supporting the team and threatening a good portion of the opponent's team.

    Finally Accelgor is well-known for being a deadly Final Gambit user. A base 80 HP and base 145 speed with maximum investment (and leftovers and Giga Drain to ensure full HP after SR damage) allows Accelgor to outspeed and OHKO almosty every unboosted Pokemon in RU except ghosts. Base 80 HP fully invested is similar to that of an uninvested base 110 HP stat, meaning that at full ~HP almost nothing can survive Final Gambit. This allows you to take out a potentially deadly opponent to your team, such as Aerodactyl, Amoonguss (after SR damage) or Druddigon easily and swiftly. you can even throw on spikes or Rain Dance to support your team if you think you can force the opponent out with Accelgor and want to save final gambit for later.

    The only true counters to Accelgor are bulky ghosts like Dusknoir, who don't fear anything at high HP (unless Accelgor has a rare HP Dark / Ghost) and can pain split or just take out Accelgor with any attack they choose due to Accelgor's low defenses. Slowking and Clefable can potentially take out choice-locked Accelgor, but more often than not Accelgor will carry life Orb or Leftovers, and Slowking is crushed by Bug Buzz while Clefable cannot tank Focus Blast well at all. Aerodactyl can tank Bug Buzz and giga Drain easily, but will not appreciate a fopcus Blast or HP Rock and is slower than Accelgor by a considerable amount.

    Overall, the fact that every team needs to be prepared for offensive, spiker and final gambit Accelgor, its blazing speed, unpredictability and underrated but large offensive power and wide movepool, coming off it's base 100 special attack stat, make Accelgor a titan-level threat in RU.
  11. DittoCrow

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    I fail to see how Accelgor is one of the top 10 most dominant Pokemon when it was never one of the best/most threatening Pokemon in the tier or very popular. It's Speed doesn't mean that much when priority runs rampant in RU, and it has a Stealth Rock weakness and gets revenge killed by more common threats like Rotom-C. Yes, it has amazing coverage, but it has pretty average Special Attack meaning that it fails to OHKO things like Feraligatr. Also, Accelgor can't perform both roles of sweeping and setting up Spikes since it's so frail. As for Final Gambit, I don't think a mon that sacrifices itself on entry could be considered dominant, so that move is irrelevant.

    Accelgor has a plethora of checks / counters in priority users (Entei, Absol, Spiritomb, Hariyama), status users and walls like Amoonguss, Lanturn, and SpDef Druddigon, and other checks such as Escavalier and Emboar. Accelgor is a great Pokemon and solid threat. But is it in the top 10 for metagame-defining Pokemon? I don't think it makes the cut.
  12. Hakumen

    Hakumen Hot grill
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    Sorry Heroes and Cons but as DittoCrow said, Accelgor doesn't deserve to be in the top 10. Moreover, Final Gambit is really bad on it unlike what you said
  13. Nails

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    Krookodile was never a huge threat. It was a really effective pokemon but it required a weakened team to clean. It might have turned into a dominant pokemon but UU stole it before it could become a 'titan'.

    @Swamp-Rocket

    Sceptile was really good at one point I guess. It could fit in low top 10 on some lists. Same with Druddigon. Personally I wouldn't put either ahead of mid bw1 Slowking, and they're a step below everything that was banned (maybe not Venomoth since no one used it). Druddigon nor Sceptile ever had much meaningful suspect discussion to my knowledge. But I guess I don't mind them being listed.
  14. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    Before I try to nominate it, I have to ask: Was Escavelier ever a big threat? Can it be considered a big threat today? Same question for Aggron. (I'm guessing they'll be no for Aggron, but just want to get your opinions.
  15. Silvershadow234

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    Esca is a p big threat but it doesn't dominate the metagame. In cress meta it was rlly good but it never dominated to the same extent of venemoth / cresselia / insert rlly broken mon.
  16. Mack the Knife

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    Hey Hakumen, may you put back Druddigon and Sceptile. I think we agreed they were good for nominations.
  17. Hakumen

    Hakumen Hot grill
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    It is done now
  18. Hakumen

    Hakumen Hot grill
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    It's time to start voting. Now, vote for your top 10.

    Here are nominees :
    - Slowking
    - Porygon-Z
    - Nidoqueen
    - Cresselia
    - Yanmega
    - Venomoth
    - Entei
    - Cofragrigus
    - Honchkrow
    - Sableye
    - Sharpedo
    - Alakazam
    - Sceptile
    - Druddigon

    The voting will last for 2 weeks so until July 20th 11:59 PM EST.
  19. -Sparkbeat-

    -Sparkbeat-

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    Nidoqueen
    Porygon-Z
    Cresselia
    Yanmega
    Venemoth
    Cofragrigus
    Honchkrow
    Sableye
    Sharpedo
    Alakazam
  20. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Cresselia, Yanmega, Honchkrow, Cofagrigus, Nidoqueen, Slowking, Venomoth, Porygon-Z, Sharpedo, Entei
  21. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

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    Cresselia, Honchkrow, Cofagrigus, Yanmega, Nidoqueen, Porygon-Z, Sharpedo, Slowking, Alakazam, Venomoth
  22. Celever

    Celever

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    I know that there are only 9 pokemon here, I don't like any of the others, I don't particularly like Honchkrow.
    Also goddamn this layout, you can't click enter at the bottom when you edit a post, so I have to write at the top :mad:
    - Slowking
    - Nidoqueen
    - Cresselia
    - Yanmega
    - Venomoth
    - Cofragrigus
    - Honchkrow
    - Alakazam
    - Sceptile
  23. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Cresselia
    Yanmega
    Honchkrow
    Cofagrigus
    Nidoqueen
    Slowking
    Venomoth
    Alakazam
    Sharpedo
    Entei

    Some pretty hard choices outside of the top 6 on my list. Viewed some pokemon as pokemon that should definitely make the list, and others as ones that really shouldn't be nominees, but i decided on this final list. Imo Cresselia really deserves to be in the top 3 at least, given just how simply dominating it was, as well as how many times it was in the metagame. Over the course of BW2 RU we've had to suspect and ban Cresselia three times in three completely different metagames, which shows just how absurdly Cresselia affected RU during its stint. Anyways, thats just a thought of mine, but feel free to take it into consideration.
  24. TROP

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    Cresselia
    Yanmega
    Nidoqueen
    Porygon-Z
    Venomoth
    Honchkrow
    Cofagrigus
    Slowking
    Sharpedo
    Entei
  25. Slory

    Slory

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    1.- Cresselia
    2.- Yanmega
    3.- Honchkrow
    4.- Nidoqueen
    5.- Cofagrigus
    6.-Venomoth
    7.- Slowking
    8.- Porygon-Z
    9.- Sharpedo
    10.- Entei

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