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The Top 10 Titans of the 5th Gen UU Metagame

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by Mazz, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Approved by RT - Stolen from OU (with love~)​


    As 6th gen swiftly approaches, I think it’s time that we take a look back on the entire 5th gen UU Metagame. With the transition from 4th gen to 5th gen, we acquired such powerhouses as Staraptor, Kyurem, new abilities that pushed pokemon over the top or into contention, Permanent Weather, Gothitelle, Escavalier, Chandelure, and more. With the arrival of Black and White 2, many past threats became all the more potent thanks to more readily available tutor attacks and hidden abilities. These Pokemon have all had a great impact over the course of 5th gen UU. But, it is now time to decide, who are the Top 10 Titans of 5th Gen UU?

    This is where you guys come in. This thread will work similarly to the UU Viability Ranking Thread, where throughout the week, you guys will nominate Pokemon to be voted on to be placed as candidates for the Top 10 Titans of 5th Gen UU. The voting for the actual top 10 list will be done in September (one month away from 6th gen) by you all, so that by the time 6th gen does roll around, we have an accurate depiction of which Pokemon were the ones that had a very significant impact on the UU Metagame. Every shift, you will look through the candidates mentioned, and then you will vote on the one that has the most compelling argument on why it should be in the Top 10. The nominating will last until May 1st, 11:59 PM EST, which after that, the voting process will being, with a top ten list determined two weeks later.

    Now, what do I want in a post? Well, what I would like to see in a post nominating a Pokemon is:

    • What kind of effect did this Pokemon have during its time in the 5th Gen UU Metagame?
    • What were its main roles when it was/is used?
    • What caused it to have such a significant impact? (Think Movesets, abilities, base stats, etc)
    • How would you deal with this Pokemon when you are team building/battling it? (checks, counters, etc)


    These are the kinds of posts that show that you aren’t just saying, “Pokemon X should be in the top 10 because it looks cool.” Those kinds of posts should not even be thought about being made.

    Now, for the big question, what kinds of Pokemon can we nominate? Well, really, you can nominate any that were in UU but were banned, any in UU but were moved down, or you can suggest any Pokemon that’s in UU right now. I’m hoping that by the time that September rolls around, we’ll have a significant list to vote for the top 10.

    Now, the voting for the top 10 will NOT be a standard 1. Best Pokemon 2. Second best, etc. The Top 10 will be the ones that have had the most significant impact on their time used in the Metagame. This means even in Black and White 1, so you can suggest Gothitelle to be a candidate. However, this would be advised against since it was only UU for a very short time in Black and White 2, and therefore its impact was not very notable. Here's a list of the current nominees:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Vulpix | Chansey | Snorlax | Heracross | Deoxys-Defense | Staraptor | Togekiss | Chandelure | Kyurem

    Now, what I want you guys to do is to put up compelling arguments on why these 2 should be candidates for the top 10 Titans of 5th Gen UU. But, don’t have all the posts for this week only be for these two, nominate your own selections. Then, on the 16th, you all will vote on which Pokemon should be the one that is nominated for the Top 10.

    I feel that this topic would be a great idea for us at the moment with 6th gen coming towards us fast and with 5th gen finally winding down on being almost done with the changes in it. So, now it is up to you all. Who do you think impacted the UU metagame the most? Who do you believe is a Titan?
  2. Zaon

    Zaon

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    Good idea!
    [​IMG]

    Nominating Kyurem. In the begening of BW before it get banned, Kyurem was one of the most powerful in UU thanks to its incredible power, bulk, great offensive typing despite its bad defensive typing and shallow movepool. It was one of the main reason to run Hail and was centralized the metagame.

    Also, supporting Deo-D and Staraptor especialy the second one because they were excellent and influential before get banned
  3. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    [​IMG]

    Nominating Chansey

    What kind of effect did this Pokemon have during its time in the 5th Gen UU Metagame?
    fuck kaleidoscope

    Chansey singlehandedly nerfed any kind of special offense that tried to exist during its two stints in UU. Even in its first period in UU, when titans like Staraptor, Deoxys-D, Drought Vulpix, and Hail + Snow Cloak/Kyurem reigned, Chansey still not only found its way onto teams, but easily found its way onto them, and several good special sweepers and attackers (Yanmega, Rain Dance Kingdra, etc.) Suffered until it was gone.

    What were its main roles when it was/is used?

    Well, Chansey performed a couple of roles, although its main one was singlehandedly enabling Stall. It could switch in on pretty much any special attack, and either Toxic, set up Stealth Rock, be a cleric, or pass off 350+ HP Wishes off to its teammates, all of which are very useful for stall teams. However, one of the reasons that ultimately lead to its ban during its 2nd time around in UU was that it was such a fat piece of garbage that it could not only enable stall, but act as a ridiculously giant cushion for offense and balance teams as well. If you accidentally switched your Pkmn in one to many times, and left it with about 40% HP, Chansey could wish it back up. If you accidentally let your Kingdra eat a Thunder Wave, you could just softboiled. Overall, it just made your teams less susceptible to special attackers as a whole.

    What caused it to have such a significant impact? (Think Movesets, abilities, base stats, etc)

    Probably its gargantuan HP in addition to Wish. The new mechanic for wish really pushed it over the border, since it could basically fully regenerate any pokemon that wasn't dead. Eviolite is a bitch too, though. With eviolite, Chansey could even stand up to the likes of some non-boosting physical attackers, like Sharpedo, Choiced Weavile, and non-CB Flygon. (In that meta, CB Flygon wasn't very prevalent.)

    How would you deal with this Pokemon when you are team building/battling it? (checks, counters, etc)

    Chansey's one of the reasons that Fighting-types became more popular. SD Guts Heracross used to be huge, since Stall was more popular. You could Swords Dance up on Chansey, and proceed to just smash through things. Scrafty and Mienshao, IIRC, didn't drop until a ways into Chansey's reign of terror, so we didn't have them to go off of. I think the way most stall teams dealt with it was to set up hazards and then spam phazing moves. Toxic Spikes might've helped too, since Nidoqueen wasn't really discovered yet either.

    tl;dr: Chansey had 2 chances at UU, and broke the format both times. Singlehandedly enabled stall, also acted as a cushion for balanced and offense. Severely nukes special offense teams, and was a monster even in an era where Deo-D and Staraptor were present. It was so bad that it got banned in less than 3 weeks during its 2nd chance.

    I'll be back later to discuss Deo-D and Staraptor, I have to go to class. Both pokemon were very appropriate examples of pokemon to be discussed, and I do agree that they should both be nominated.
  4. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    "This means even in Black and White 1, so you can suggest Vulpix to be a candidate. However, this would be advised against since it was only UU for a very short time in Black and White 1, and therefore its impact was not very notable"

    This is just wrong. Vulpix was only in UU for a short period due to how inherently broken it was even with the other powerhouses in this thread that will be mentioned. Vulpix was the primary fixture of the BW1 metagame.

    EDIT: It isn't that I am pissed. It is that people who did not play with drought in UU can't imagine the chokehold it held on the metagame.
  5. Mazz

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    Whenever I mention Vulpix, someone gets pissed off, so I figured this would happen. I'll throw Gothitelle there then, since it sat around for 2 months.
  6. Kkop

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    I have faint memories of when Staraptor reigned supreme in B/W UU, but what I do remember generally involved being forced to run Rhyperior on my teams just to stand a chance at dealing with it.

    However, the primary subject of this post is Deoxys-D. Deo-D was one of the premier abusers of Spikes when the meta featured hazards wars involving the likes of Deo-D, Roserade, Froslass, and even the rare Qwilfish. Being the only one of the four who could guarantee at least Rocks (if not a layer of Spikes) without the use of a Focus Sash was a boon for offensive teams, not to mention being stalwart enough to shrug off powerful hits aimed for key members of both offensively- and defensively-inclined teams (while being able to Recover off any damage if one wanted to use the eponymous move in their moveset).

    Deo-D's incredible bulk virtually ensured that it would survive at least one hit from neutrally-effective attacks (marring poor crit luck), and it even stood a decent chance of surviving even super-effective attacks from pokemon that didn't have STAB or enough muscle behind them.

    Furthermore, the primary obstacles to preventing Deo-D from executing its gameplan were not incredibly difficult to exploit. Xatu's Magic Bounce is easily played around. Taunt wasn't a guaranteed solution either; the turn could be used for Deo-D to switch out to a heavy-hitter or set-up pokemon for early-game damage and momentum. With proper investment in Speed one could STILL summon Stealth Rock or a layer of Spikes, if not cripple the would-be Taunter with a status ailment, a surprise Magic Coat, or your own Taunt! If a Prankster abuser appeared in Team Preview, Deo-D didn't even have to see the field until the threat was dealt with. It could even take on the Prankster user by absorbing a status and inflicting damage via a set-damage move (a strategy that was still viable for non-Prankster users of Taunt) while making use of it's ability Pressure to slowly whittle away at valuable PP.

    Due to Deo-D's fantastic base defenses one could invest heavy EV's in other stats as one saw fit. Improving it's paltry base HP stat was an obvious strategy considering it was only base 50. Yet I always found that EV's should almost always have been placed in Speed. This aided in outspeeding not only opposing Deoxys-D to get the jump on them early-game, but also outpacing other defensive (and even some offensive) opponents. A fast Taunt or status could cripple an opponent's key pokemon and greatly increase your chances of winning.

    Even still, Deo-D did not need to solely be used for setting up hazards. It could utilize a strong support movepool to aid its teammates. Deo-D could use its bulk to set up Dual Screens, cripple opponents with Toxic or Thunder Wave, fairly reliably fire off a Trick Room, and even set up Rain Dance for Swift Swim Kingdra (or other dangerous Swift Swimmers such as Ludicolo).

    Eventually its dominance resulted in Deo-D's exile from UU. Even the stagnant OU metagame took notice of Deo-D's versatility and bulk, and only recently was it banished to Ubers. All the while, us players of UU could have our laughs because we were the first to know the metagame-defining power of Deoxys-D.
  7. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Sorry about this being late. I've taken the leisure of extending the voting time and have compounded a list of current "titan" candidates.

    - Deoxys-D
    - Staraptor
    - Vulpix
    - Chansey
    - Kyurem
    - Heracross

    Now, it's up to the community to vote on which two Pokemon from this list will be guaranteed access as a "titan" in the UU tier March 21st 11:59pm GMT -6h. Once this vote is passed, I will open the week up to two more Pokemon.
  8. Magcargo 2

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    [​IMG]I can't believe that heracross wasn't mentioned. Heracross has been the biggest threat for quite some time. In fact, heracross is the main reason cofagrigus, crobat, golurk and nidoqueen got so popular. It's powerful dual base 180 STABs mean that most poemon are going to take agiant dent against this monster. While it may not be the biggest threat anymore because of thier poularity, heracross's impact on the tier was tremendous.
  9. Ace Emerald

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    I kept meaning to post a nomination, this is a pretty interesting idea (though the format is a little weird imo, not that it matters a lot). Its a day late, but maybe you'll consider my vote for Staraptor? I definitely think it's a titan and I'm not sure if Heracross makes top 10 in my book, so maybe this will balance the Heracross vote.
  10. Celever

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    No one actually did vote so I'm guessing it counts. I am going with Staraptor, even though I wasn't into competitive battling while it was UU, I can easily imagine the impact it would have had.

    And I love it!
  11. Machi

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    Kyurem: This mon could fit in practically any team, it wasn't strange to see it even on a Sun based team, due to the sheer power it had as well as bulk. This thing was even worse when built around. Moreover, as mentioned because of its stat blessing this could easily play both as an offensive or defensive nightmare, despite SR weakness and could still be arguably broken.

    Chansey: Compared to everything so far its had the longest stint in UU and as such has had the longest effect in the metagame. Whether it promoted a strongly hazard based metagame to deal with it or made a lot of special as well as physical attackers moot, chances are if your physical attacker couldn't 2 OHKO the fat blob it wasn't going to be that viable to use. Seriously if anything has had the longest most detrimental effect my vote goes to this one. What many need to consider here is that this was a defensive behemoth not an offensive one that you had to prepare for, seriously you need attackers capable of either taking advantage of it or outright threatening it both of which for most part were far and few.

    I'd like to vote for Vulpix but I agree with Upstart in that not many got to experience that meta-game. Though I do believe it does deserve an honorable mention as it was basically a nightmare since memebers of sun teams generally were at an advantage against the other two weathers (after all they were either Fire types or grass types) that could generally hit the switch in either super effectively or had taken the liberty to boost themselves that you'd be eating a boosted STAB attack. More importantly Victini was difficult to wall altogether during that time since the bulky water or rock types we use to wall today took far too much of a heft of damage from switching in to a sun boosted V-create that they were practically 2 OHKOed. Lastly, one only needs to quickly browse through the lower tiers, UU and below, to notice just how many Pokemon's had abilities to take advantage of the weather as well as notice the diversity at which they could attack from, be it special or physical or even mixed, coupled with very usable stats. All this provided by a single support of permanent sun.
  12. Explorer

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    Sure, our metagames may be dominated by offense, but what about defensive Pokemon? I present Blastoise:

    It can inflict burn and poison.
    It is one of the only spinners in UU. The only other one, Claydol, is easily outclassed by Blastoise.
    Blastoise makes a good special wall in general.
    It can use Roar or Dragon Tail to phase out setup sweepers.
    Weakens teams to allow for a successful clean by one of UU's offensive threats such as Chandelure, Heracross, Mienshao, Raikou, or Zapdos.
    It only has two weaknesses.
    Aqua Ring and Torrent are good bonuses.
    Nice offensive movepool where there is room for coverage moves: Ice Beam, Earthquake, Focus Blast, Return, and Hidden Power.

    Blastoise has personally given me a lot of success on stall teams and as a defensive core on teams geared towards offense (pairs well with Cofagrigus).
  13. Celever

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    I'm just saying blastoise isn't exactly titan level with the amount right now, with the amount of other great water types in the tier. It is good though, I'm not saying it isn't. If we are going to be submitting things here though, I would say togekiss.

    Togekiss is unique in UU, with how it can completely stall out many massive threats with serene grace, and is basically UU's alternative to jirachi! It has air slash to inflict a load of flinches, thunder wave for paralysis so that it can inflict loads of flinches as well as roost, for consistent recovery as it wears down your opponent.
  14. Vashimus

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    [​IMG]

    How could you forget the big fella? Snorlax deserves to be up there. There's honestly no reason NOT to run it on a UU team. Specially defensive sets remain one of the only reliable switch-ins in Chandelure, in addition to walling many other special attackers in the tier. It can go the offensive with a Choice band set, which practically OHKOs every offensive Poke in the tier, while still having enough bulk to tank many hits. And of course, the old Curse sets are still there, though it's better used late game as Snorlax finds it hard to find turns to set up. He can fit into virtually any team with little issue. Easily one of the best Pokemon in UU.
  15. Explorer

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    You are absolutely right about Togekiss. It has caused ragequits for me before, and is probably my £1 used Pokemon in UU. On top of that, it has a great set of coverage options such as:

    Grass Knot
    Fire Blast
    Aura Sphere
    Shadow Ball
    Hyper Voice

    It also has the much-less-popular Hustle abuse with Drain Punch and Extremespeed. Lastly, it can Baton Pass Nasty Plot and Work Up to other Pokemon, and it has Wish. This is definitely a top UU threat.
  16. MewTheDestroyer

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    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Chandelure yet. Chandelure dropped down from OU in the early BW1 era, and has proved it's worth, even without the edition of Shadow Tag yet. Packing a massive 145 base Special Attack, Chandelure hits like a truck. With sets such a Specs and Scarf, Chandelure works as an offensive pivot, and a great wall breaker. Nominating Chandelure to be considered as a Titan.
  17. Mazz

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    Because the way this project was designed in OU, its left myself and a few other people confused as to how it should be working. With that said, I'm going to change the way this thing works. You have until May 1st 2013 11:59pm EST to nominate who you believe should make it into the top ten titans. However, you may only nominate two Pokemon. Once that deadline is reached, the voting will take place on which Pokemon from the nominee pool will be the top ten.
  18. Mazz

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    Unfortunately, due to a lack of interest in this project, I will be closing this thread. However, closer to the release of X and Y, I will reopen it or remake it, and will do better to invoke a discussion regarding UU's top ten.
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