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The Tormenting Stall [OU RMT]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Shizzle, Jun 6, 2010.

  1. Shizzle

    Shizzle

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,481
    The Tormenting Stall [OU RMT]

    Introduction
    The basic idea behind the team, was to use Torment Tran, which from what I read, appeared to be amazing.
    I mean just look at Heatran's typing, most pokemon are only going to carry one move that can deal damage
    to Heatran, enough to break a substitute that is. When you combine this with his amazing defenses, and proper
    residual damage, what you have is a pokemon that can quite literally obliterate complete teams, even by itself
    once set up properly. Of course it does have drawbacks, namely other Heatran's, however if they are scarfed,
    chances are you will have a substitute up, and can Torment him anyway!

    As a fairly long time battler, stall was one thing I despised, and it actually looked somewhat fun to play, so I thought heck,
    why not try it out?
    _____________________________________________


    Team Building Process
    So I start of with Heatran, the Torment Tran set, fairly basic. The whole team revolves
    around him, and he is basically by the time he comes out, anything threating is either dead, or he can stall out.
    [​IMG]
    Heatran
    _____________________________________________
    Then of course, the two most basic elements which allow Torment Tran to function, Toxic Spikes
    and Sandstream [Hail would damage Heatran!] Tentacruel is chosen, why? Roserade may be speedy,
    but can really only function well as a lead, and I want something that can stall effectively, Tentacruel
    fits the job perfectly, which high SpD. He can also Rapid Spin, and set down the much needed Toxic Spikes,
    while also being able to absorb Toxic (Spikes). He is also able to take possible Fire/Fighting attacks
    directed at any member, and is a great counter to the stall breaker that is MixApe.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Heatran + Tentacruel
    _____________________________________________
    Now of course I need to get SandStream up as previously stated. I could go for Hippodowon here,
    as he is an exceptional physical wall, but something I realised that would be devastating seemed to appear lethal,
    that is a somewhat different set of the king, Tyranitar. The set he is running is pretty much a pure physical/bulky
    sweeper, with substitute. Quite literally no one sees the Substitute coming, most switch to an appropriate pokemon
    to avoid damage, yet are pretty much owned after the switch that pokemon in. He can also wall some pokemon
    rather well, and his SpD laughs off lesser Special Sweepers.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Heatran + Tentacruel + Tyranitar
    _____________________________________________
    Here it is time to choose an appropriate lead, and I can think of nothing other than good old reliable
    Aerodactyl. Aerodactyl has been in many of my teams, simply because the usefulness of Stealth Rock is actually
    amazing, crippling pokemon such as Salamence and Gyarados, and rendering them somewhat useless against such
    stall. Taunt also prevents the opposing lead from setting up Stealth Rock, which would hinder me from switching
    to resist attacks.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Aerodactyl + Heatran + Tentacruel + Tyranitar
    _____________________________________________
    So now I look at my team, 3 of my team members are weak to Ground, and I am in dire need of a spin blocker.
    I decided my clear weakness to Ground was an issue, I can't risk sacrificing too many Pokemon, an I decided to use one
    of my favourite walls. Zapdos. Its bulk is often underestimated, and yet it still has enough SpA and Spe to even net
    kills. It can OHKO so many of OU's most potent sweepers, its possibly the most under appreciated sets ever really.
    Zapdos' ability is also godly with this team, Pressure actually does more than what one would expect. Zapdos is also
    a key counter to most late game set ups, as well as the likes of Salamence and Gyarados if they have not used Dragon
    Dance yet
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Aerodactyl + Heatran + Tentacruel + Tyranitar + Zapdos
    _____________________________________________
    Now here is where I start panicking. I need two unique things for this stall team to become godly in my opinion,
    then again what team with 7 Pokemon isn't going to be awesome. This is where my current issue is, and
    some help is required. I can either go for a Spin Blocker, as keeping Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock up is vital to the team's
    strategy. Alternatively I could really do with another wall, a specialised wall like Blissey to completely screw over half the
    sweepers in OU. I was unable to come to a direct decision, however there are several pokemon I think that can
    fill this slot effectively.​

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Aerodactyl + Heatran + Tentacruel + Tyranitar + Zapdos + Skarmory
    _____________________________________________
    As suggested by Alan and some others, I am changing the Zapdos to RotomW, the ResTalk set, which will work wonders,
    not only can Rotom fend off Scizor with ease, but with the chosen set, he can also double as a status absorber. Changing
    Gliscor as well, there is no point in having a suicide lead on a Stall Team, bad choice by me I guess.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Gliscor + Heatran + Tentacruel + Tyranitar + Rotom-W+ Skarmory
    _____________________________________________​

    The Team In Depth
    [​IMG]
    Role: Lead
    Gliscor @ Leftovers
    Nature: Jolly | Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Moves:
    • Stealth Rock
    • Taunt
    • Roost
    • Earthquake
    Explanation:
    As suggested by Alan, I have changed Aerodactyl to Gliscor, Gliscor can be an extreme pain to kill, as his typing is excellent bar his
    weakness to Ice and Water, thankfully these moves are what most Physical Sweepers lack, and can allow me to set up rocks,
    taking little damage from physical sweepers. He is also a dead set counter to Swords Dance Lucairo sets. This set also shuts down
    opposing stall teams, Pokemon in specific include both Skarmory and Forretress.

    Gliscor's STAB Earthquake has decent coverage as a single move, the list of pokemon it can take down is huge, and even with neautral
    STAB Earthquake's, enough damage is being dealt to scare away Pokemon which lack defensive numbers. I am not going to make
    Tyranitar lead, as he is an incredibly risky lead, and gets quite literally owned against Metagross and Swampert.

    Ice moves are generally specially based, and I can switch to Tentacruel if appropriate. Against Azelf I switch to Tyranitar to get
    Sandstream up, predicting the Taunt that is, then I do whatever >.>

    [​IMG]
    Role: Staller
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Nature: Calm | Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 244 HP / 32 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
    Moves:
    • Substitute
    • Protect
    • Torment
    • Lava Plume
    Explanation:
    The star of the team, once 2 layers of Toxic Spikes are set up, this thing is ready to go, able to stall out an incredible amount
    of pokemon. Basically you bring it in to force a switch, and substitute as they go to their counter. Protect as they attempt to
    break your Substitute, and then Torment them, preventing them from using that move twice in a row. Usually allowing you to
    keep brining back up Substitutes as their HP residually reaches 0.

    Lava Plume:
    Heatran's synergy with the team is somewhat subpar, that is it shares a common weakness with both Tentacruel and Tyranitar
    to Ground type moves, however in that situation I can switch to either Zapdos or Skarmory. For any Fighting attacks, Skarmory,
    Tentacruel or Zapdos are switched in, although usually I can Torment out the opposing pokemon's most threatening moves.

    [​IMG]
    Role: Toxic Spiker and SpD Wall
    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Nature: Calm | Ability: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
    Moves:
    • Toxic Spikes
    • Rapid Spin
    • Hidden Power [Electric]
    • Surf
    Explanation:
    Good old Tentacruel, even though I find him aesthetically disturbing, he still always feels like the right pokemon. Tentacruel
    provides two key functions to the team, while also being a natural Special Wall. His two functions involve setting up Toxic Spikes,
    crucial to Heatran's and the teams strategy. Rapid Spin is also extremely useful, in the event that I am facing another Stall
    or team that uses Stealth Rock + Spikes.

    Hidden Power [Electric] deals approximately 55% to Gyarados, more than enough to lure him into attacking, and then allowing
    Skarmory a nice switch in afterwards. Roaring him out, and basically removing any threat of him, as after a 55% blow and
    2 Stealth Rocks, he will be dead, and if he is not, Sandstorm would finish him off, as he would be under 6% HP. I can run
    Ice Beam here, however nearly all Salamence's are running Life Orb, which I can quite easily stall out thanks to SS + LO recoil
    and SR damage. As long as I have no entry hazards up against me, I can keep switching/protecting to ensure Salamence has little
    to no effect on my team. I am considering using Sludge Bomb over Hidden Power [Electric], as I feel that it would be much better
    to severely hurt other possible switch ins, such as the above mentioned Salamence, who of course try to net a free Dragon Dance.

    Ground moves as stated before go to either Zapdos or Skarmory, Electric moves are generally Special, and Tyranitar can usually
    tank them with the Sandstream Special Defense boost. Psychic is extremely rare, but Tyranitar or Skarmory can handle it
    fairly well, not to mention Heatran.

    [​IMG]
    Role: Revenge Killer + Sand Stream
    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Jolly | Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Moves:
    • Crunch
    • Pursuit
    • Stone Edge
    • Earthquake
    Explanation:
    Changed the set from TyraniBoah to Scarftar thanks to several people suggesting it. Basically it allows me to revenge kill several
    pokemon which could possibly set up a Substitute on a switch, ie. Gengar vs Skarmory, so this guy can be the "go to" pokemon
    if I do not have Sand Stream up, because quite simply it helps in taking down those who take damage from Sand Stream, and
    nullifies recovery [Leftovers] on these foes, and walls which could normally give me trouble. This set ideally is there to revenge
    kill MixMence, who otherwise causes absolute havoc among this team, and even if I do manage to switch in on a Earthquake,
    Sand Stream will be up. So after the attack MixMence would be at 59% HP thanks to 1 hit of recoil from Life Orb and Sand
    Stream, then it would be easy messing around with Heatran w/Protect and Skarmory, switching around would be far too easy.

    It also gives me a surefire way of dealing with the likes of Starmie and Gengar unless they have a Substitute up, and well basically
    able to handle nearly all the potent sweeper threats to this team such as Lucario and Infernape.

    [​IMG]
    Role: ResTalker and Spin Blocker
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Nature: Calm | Ability: Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpDef
    Moves:
    • Discharge / Thunderbolt
    • Will o Wisp
    • Rest
    • Sleep Talk
    Rotom-W is a great wall, despite having 50 HP, its typing and other defensive stats are 100+, which allows it to function
    something like a mixed wall. This ResTalk set has three main functions other than walling several pokemon, firstly it can
    block rapid spin due to its Ghost typing, which 'is a must' on such a stall team, I don't want to waste several turns
    setting up to get them all blown away. Rotom-W can also absorb status, with the ResTalk combination, it also spreads
    Paralysis and Burns across the opposing team with Will o Wisp and Discharge, having 30% change to cause Paralysis.

    His typing and synergy work well with both Heatran and Skarmory, both of which resist both Dark and Ghost hits,
    each being able to take either a specially based or physically based respectively, the latter allowing for a free
    Whirlwind/Spikes turn.

    Explanation:
    [​IMG]
    Role: Spiker and Physical Wall
    Skarmory @ Shed Shell
    Nature: Impish | Ability: Keen Eye
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
    Moves:
    • Brave Bird
    • Whirlwind
    • Spikes
    • Roost
    Explanation:
    Completely standard like pretty much everything else. Its job is to not only get Spikes down for further entry hazards damage,
    but also to tank Physical hits like a boss. It is also a very prominent member of the team, as it can tank many of the other
    team member's type weaknesses.

    Skarmory is also crucial in that it is the only thing that can tank hits from potent Physical Sweepers, and its weaknesses are
    fairly well covered by the rest of the team.

    I am using Shed Shell, as I do not want to lose him too early in the battle to Magnezone, because his role is much needed.
    He can phaze with Whirlwind, especially when brought into something like Weavile, as I can not only shuffle through their team,
    but also continually where them down.


    Thanks for reading guys, rate, hate and steal!
  2. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    1,076
    You really, really need rotom-a here. I would take out aerodactyl, who is out of place here, make ttar the lead, and add rotom. (restalk for status) From there, you need a way to deal with these pokemon: Heatran, swampert, gyarados, and crocune. Rotom takes care of gyarados obviously, and can trick or bolt crocune. Give HP grass to zapdos to deal with pert. Heatran is already taken care of by tentacruel.
  3. greenstreet

    greenstreet

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Not much of a rate but I really suggest running the sleep-talk rotom since you need some form of spin blocker and an issurance against status. Maybe over zapdos since skarmory and zapdos pretty much soak the same forms of damage. Maybe Tyranitar as your lead and keep zapdos and add in rotom? Im not really sure but hope I helped.

    darn eggbert beat to it lol...
  4. Alan

    Alan

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    Jan 14, 2010
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    2,815
    Hey there, you have a nice team and although this is supposed to be a stall team, it lacks several key factors that are characteristic of a stall team.

    First off your lead is very un-stallish. I'm not sure how well versed you may be in stall, but the idea is to have pokemon that can survive and come back later in the game, Aerodactyl can't do either of those. I would suggest replacing it with standard Gliscor maybe, it has similar typing and has enough bulk to survive and come back and wall late game.

    Gliscor @ Leftovers | 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe | Jolly Nature
    Taunt | Roost | Stealth Rock | Earthquake


    Standard Gliscor, bulky wall with enough Spe EVs to outrun Jolly Lucario. Almost always gets up rocks and is one of the best leads in my opinion. I run him on my stall team and it works very well.

    Another thing you must, must, must, have is a Spin Blocker. What is the point of getting all your hazards up if you don't want them spun away. I suggest RestTalk Rotom-W. Its a great (one of the best) status absorbers, and it can block spins, and its a pain in the ass to get rid of, its also cute, but thats irrelevant.

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers | 252 HP / 120 Def / 236 SpDef | Bold Nature
    Discharge | Will-O-Wisp | Rest | Sleep Talk

    Standard RestTalker, it fears no spinner aside from Starmie who spams Hydro Pump. Its good typing gives it many options to come in. Will-O-Wisp is for stuff like Tyranitar and Scizor who will try to Pursuit you. Discharge is to cripple Fire-Types like Heatran and Infernape from being able to sweep as effectively with its fancy 30% chance to Paralyze. I would suggest putting this guy in instead of Zapdos.

    Also, the whole Physical Boah set on Tar is kinda purpose defeating imo, since Boah is supposed to me mixed to limit what can come in on it by running a mixed set. That set will only do 33.5% - 39.5% to a standard Spiker Skarmory, a.k.a. it can Roost off the Damage and WW you away, whereas Standard Boah does 68.9% - 81.4% to standard Skarm, a garunteed 2HKO.

    tl;dr changes:

    Gliscor Lead
    TormentTran
    Tenta
    TyraniBoah
    RestTalk Rotom-W
    Skarmory

    Hope my changes helped and good luck. :toast:
  5. fostmeister

    fostmeister

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    442
    Agree with getting rid of aerodactyl. You should swamp aero for either a lead tyranitar with Stealth rock or a hippowdon.

    For your Zapdos, you can make it timid, have leftovers, have sub, roost, tbolt, and toxic. 248 HP / 184 SpD / 76 Spe to help it stall forever, letting poison, sandstorm, and tbolt kill the mon. It also uses its ability pressure better when it's stalling like this.

    I also agree with Alan, putting rest talk rotom-w in there to spin block.

    lead ttar
    tormenttran
    tentacruel
    subroost zapdos
    skarmory
    rest talk rotom-w
  6. Shizzle

    Shizzle

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,481
    Hey guys, thanks for the feed back. Not exactly replying to your comments, they were all useful,and I have applied as much as I can.

    I am probably NEVER going to use Tyranitar lead, it just sucks against Metagross and Swampert, two of the most prominent Leads in OU, sorry :(((

    Summary of Changes
    • Rotom-w > Zapdos
    • Gliscor > Aerodactyl
    • TyraniBoah > BulkyTyranitar
  7. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
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    1,341
    Hey I got your Vm but I don't have time for a full rate. However, you are very weak to DDmence and lack any checks / counters. Your only hope is to bait an outrage with Gliscor and switch in Skarmory to roar it away. However, in this process it will always kill at least one Pokemon for every time it switches in. Try Swampert over Tyranitar?
  8. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

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    Got your VM but the team loks great already, not much to suggest, I agree that Swampert could help you over T-tar. I think that Swampert could then be ypur Lead. Since if you change Tyranitar you lack a decent answer to stall, therefore I suggest a Stallbreaker Gliscor since Swampert could be your lead. Stallbreaker Gliscor gives you a solid answer to stall and can poison flying threats that avoid Toxic Spikes.

    Have a Nice Day!
  9. eastamazonantidote

    eastamazonantidote

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2008
    Messages:
    219
    Fix the formatting of the Lava Plume explanation. Now to the actual rate:

    Gliscor is a fine lead, but those 40 Defense EVs are truly unneeded. You should just max attack and hope for a speed tie with other Gliscor. What are you surviving with those 40 EVs? Not much. Give yourself a little hope on the mirror match and max out your speed.

    Tentacruel is fine, but Hidden Power is clearly the superior option here as you have no other way to combat Empoleon. Also, bulky Leftovers DDGyara is extremely popular and you should not expect to wear him down so easily. You need that extra threat of Hidden Power to keep him in check.

    Rotom is a great choice but you don't want Discharge. With Heatran and Rotom you already have burn being spread like crazy. You already have Toxic Spikes down. Why use Discharge? I've used 3 statuses on a few stall teams and it works, but you have to put them on different pokemon. change Discharge to Thunderbolt and max out your defense. Rotom's job is taking physical assaults and with his not-so-great 107 defenses you need to invest in one as much as possible.

    Skarmory is fine.

    Heatran is getting really, really popular. Especially TormentTran. I don't like it. But whatever. I don't know how well this Heatran actually works for you. Looking at your team, you need to choose a focus: Tyranitar or Heatran. You have 3 pokemon weak to Ground and 3 weak to water and you need to get rid of one of them. Heatran is the more stall-oriented type but isn't nearly as effective if you don't get up your hazards. However, you seem to need an answer to Heatran and Tyranitar is hands down the best Heatran counter out there. I would rather keep Tyranitar, though I know the title of your team says Heatran should stay. I don't really like TyraniBoah but whatever. For your attacking options I would choose Focus Punch as the primary damage dealer, Flamethrower to hit any Steel not named Heatran (who can't do anything to you anyways), and either Payback or Crunch or Stone Edge (though I wouldn't recommend low accuracy on stall) for a STAB option. This takes advantage of Toxic Spikes and your amazing STAB options as well as the power of Focus Punch. Remember that you want to be able to break down walls, and that your special attacking stat isn't pulling its own weight; it's only here for support. I tried a specially-based Boah many times and was always underwhelmed. Use that 134 base attack and boost it up as much as possible (maybe invest a little SpAtk for Skarmory, Jirachi, and Metagross).

    I am not good at all at suggesting replacements, so I don't know what to say about Heatran's spot. Bronzong is always a solid option for stall, as is Uxie (though she functions better as a lead). You look like you could use some Wish support and some insurance against Gyarados. Celebi and Shaymin are fine fits there and can use a SubSeed set to annoy the hell out of your opponents and provide modest healing for team members.
  10. Shizzle

    Shizzle

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
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    @Toxic Spork, while I do think that Swampert works better as a Stall pokemon, I do need Tyranitar to get that SS going, and really damage basically all LO sweepers, perhaps I could replace Gliscor with him, and use him as a lead? I dunno, just need some more thoughts here.

    @ginganinja, Thanks, as mentioned to Toxic Spork, I need/its good to have Sandstorm up, and yeah. I like the idea of Toxic stall on Gliscor, but where would I put Stealth Rock then if I am not changing Tyranitar?

    @eastamazonantidote
    I dunno about the 40 Def EVs, just ripped them straight from the analysis, what EV spread do you recommend? Just go the full 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe? I have been using HP Electric, and will continue to do so due to your suggestion :)

    Not 100% keen on using Thunderbolt over Discharge on Rotom-W, although it doesn't appear to be a problem. I'll see what some others say.

    The formatting of Lava Plume is a quote from the smogon analysis, not putting that would make people say that I just copied it in attempt to look super pro.

    I like the idea of Bronzong, its typing is just amazing, and would work wonders with Heatran, but to replace who?
  11. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Yeah like I said (though poorly) if you changed Tyranitar to Swampert then it can set up SR for your team
  12. eastamazonantidote

    eastamazonantidote

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    Gliscor is your insurance against other stall teams and Lucario. Don't drop him! Tyranitar is probably the most expendable unit of your team, unfortunately, though I don't think Swampert is the best fit here.

    You could put Stealth Rock on Tyranitar, theoretically. But Gliscor is much better at setting down Stealth Rocks and you have Toxic Spikes to take care of poison and general residual damage.

    252/4/252 is the best spread for a Gliscor lead. I find that Gyarados will often switch into Tentacruel and not expect to take any serious damage. Most of the time they will DD or Thunderwave, as most Gyarados don't even carry Earthquake anymore. Use this opportunity to hit them with a Hidden Power and watch them not be able to switch in again. Thunderbolt v. Discharge is almost always a personal preference but test them out and see if another status is needed or just gets in the way.

    Bronzong could go over Tyranitar. As I said in my earlier post, you are pretty much forced to choose between Tyranitar and Heatran because of the rather poor synergy it causes with your team. I realize that setting up a sandstorm is great, but it isn't essential to your team's performance. Bronzong gives you a go-to guy when you have no clue what's coming and also functions as a reliable Exploder in times of need. Tyranitar's power will be missed, but the Water and Ground weaknesses will not. I don't know how willing you are to part with Tyranitar or how big of an issue those Water andGround weaknesses are. If they cause problems, think about replacing Tyranitar or Heatran.
  13. Shizzle

    Shizzle

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    @ Eastamazonantidote, Yeah I am keeping gliscor for sure, Taunt is awesome, and its nice being able to switch to him from Skarmory [electric hits] without taking super effective from stealth rock able to roost off the damage.

    I could put Stealth Rock on Tyranitar, but I would much prefer to use Substitute, because there are lots of pokemon that switch in, attempting to resist its attack, but they just get owned by Substitute. Its also my only real sweeper, and is effective in its role, at least from what I have used of it.

    I actually like the idea of Bronzong, its typing is simply amazing. Not sure of what moveset to use though :S, restalker? Dual Screens? Even a Calm Mind set with high HP and Def set would work
  14. Shizzle

    Shizzle

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    Bump, still looking for advice on Tyranitar/Heatran issue, thoughts on possibly switching TTAR to Swampert/Hippodowon?
  15. Omega Phoenix

    Omega Phoenix

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    Jun 15, 2009
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    98
    Hey solid team you have here.

    Your team has a huge weakness to Salamence, with nothing really being able to take it's attacks. To combat this I recommend replacing Gliscor with Swampert, using the standard lead set. However, I realise this opens up a Lucario weakness, but I'll cover that with my next change.

    You say you like the idea of Bronzong over Tyranitar? Well how about a CMWishRachi?
    The set I'm suggesting is a little different to the standard, and there's a good reason for that which I'll get to. This is the set:

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Timid
    252 HP/80 Def/176 Spe
    -Wish
    -CM
    -T-Bolt
    -Psychic

    This set has great synergy with the rest of your team with both of it's weaknesses covered at least twice. It allows supports your team with wish and acts as a great pivot, and can sweep teams with the spikes support your team has. CM Rachi is also a monster against stall. The speed investment is to outspeed all Lucario, so you can KO with Psychic. Just be sure that it has used CC first, otherwise you wont be able to KO, as without the def. drop it deals around 58%.

    Hope my changes helped.

    Best of luck with the team.
  16. RavageX

    RavageX

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    Like the team, could face a little problem with swampert. as for skarmory i'd say go with leftovers as you can whilrwind any trappers plus the extra Hp restore could get you another chance to Whirlwind.
    rest of the team fits perfectly not alot can beat it.
    Best of luck
  17. Delko

    Delko
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Just a nitpick, you might want to use ice Beam over Flamethrower on your Boah because you have enough ways to deal with Scizor and Lucario also falls because of Focus Punch. Opposing Gliscor cause you problems so that's why I suggest Ice Beam.
  18. nesan

    nesan

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    Okay! Cursepert with Rest, Water Fall and Earthquake will cause havoc among this team! Okay so you have Skarmory to counter it! What if it dies before? Cursepert isn't suppose to set up in the beginning! You opponent will analyze and take out the threats before setting up! This team has been improved so much as you can see! All the posts above mine are all good suggestions! Try testing Rotom-C with Leaf Storm over Rotom-W! Just to see if Swampert causes any trouble!
    For the EV spread on Gliscor run 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Speed. The 40 defensive EV is pretty nice! Max speed allows you to out speed neutral natured Base 100 pokemon but all OU Base 100 Pokemon run a positive nature! 216 Speed EV with a positive nature will out speed Jolly max speed Lucario! 252 speed will result in a speed tie between Electivire and Gliscor! No one runs a positive nature on Electivire due to Motor Drive!
    Good Luck!
  19. Delko

    Delko
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    Actually 252 Spe EV's is that way to go with Gliscor these days. When 2 Gliscor face each other the one that gets of Taunt the fastest wins, so as much speed as possible is appreciated.
  20. Shizzle

    Shizzle

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    Thanks for the responses!
    Basically I just realised what a BEAST Swampert is, and I am unsure of what EVs/Moves to run, of course major investment on the defensive side, but also running Roar and possibly making it a ResTalk Shuffler. I mean with only one weakness, he can harass teams badly, especially with the support provided to him, and his STAB EQ hurts a lot of things with his 110 Atk. Also should it be Swampert > Tyranitar?

    @Omega Phoenix, I don't really like the idea of a WishCM Jirachi, I much prefer the SubCM set, but I don't think it fits in too well with the team, thanks for the suggestion though. And yes I am attempting to put Swampert on the team :)

    @RavageX, its been a little secret, but I have been using Leftovers on my wifi because I can't find my shed shell lol, and I must say it does help a lot, thanks!!

    @Delko, thats actually very smart, I should have thought of that, changed it, Ice Beam > Flamethrower, but what if I change Tyranitar to Swampert?

    @nesan, hmm, not 100% confident in that, but I will test it out, and yes I do have a severe cursepurt weakness. Perhaps another Swampert of my own with Roar would be suffice?
  21. eastamazonantidote

    eastamazonantidote

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    That is a fine alternative. You could either go with a lead set and give Gliscor another move over Stealth Rock are a Sleep shuffler. And no matter what anyone else says, Gliscor needs max speed.
  22. ToF

    ToF
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    Your team is incredibly Mixmence weak. It can KO everything on this team and since it outspeeds everything bar Gliscor, who can't do anything back, it's a serious problem and one that needs to be fixed.

    I guess the only thing you can do without changing up the synergy that this team has is to run Scarf Tyranitar over your current Boah variant. You also have a difficult time switching into Starmie and Gengar, and Scarf Tyranitar handles both with the combination of Pursuit and Crunch. Stone Edge would deal with Salamence easily. Dragon Dance variants can be dealt with via Skarmory and Gliscor.

    Other things have already been mentioned by above posters, and I think you've taken some of the suggested changes on board so I won't address those again.
  23. Shizzle

    Shizzle

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    @eastamazonantidote, I was about to, until I read Twist of Fate's post, although its still a possibility of changing TTAR to Swampert.

    @Twist of Fate, would Swampert do well enough to take on MixMence, I think he could as long as it does not come in on a Draco Meteor/Outrage.
    So I have an idea.
    LeadPert > Gliscor
    Gliscor > Tyranitar [so basically I am removing Tyranitar and replacing him with Gliscor, while also chaning TTAR to Swampert.
    Zapdos > Gliscor, running a similar EV spread, would this work?
    So my team would look like this
    LeadPert / Tentacruel / Skarmory / Zapdos / Rotom / Heatran
  24. acinod

    acinod

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    Like most other OU teams posted, your team is extremely vulnerable to SubSeed Breloom. It can easily switch into Rotom or Tentacruel and use Substitute as you switch. Now you are in trouble.

    Even without any Attack EVs and a neutral Attack nature, Focus Punch OHKOs Tyranitar and Heatran and 2HKOs Skarmory if it decides to Roost or 3HKO if it doesn't.

    Tentacruel can take a Focus Punch and Leech Seed but it cannot do anything in return and will be easily worn down by Focus Punch.
    Although Rotom is immune to Focus Punch, it is still vulnerable to Leech Seed and Breloom is able to recover all of its HP lost from Discharge after Leech Seed+Poison Heal.

    Finally Gliscor will have trouble beating Breloom as Earthquake cannot break a Substitute as it only does around the same amount of HP restored by Poison Heal. Although you can Taunt it, making it completely useless, you will only kill it after 13-15 turns (factoring in Poison Heal and Sandstorm).

    I highly recommend replacing a Pokemon with Celebi, not only because it is IMO the best Breloom counter but also because it is a valuable combination along with Torment Tran since it can beat Water types like Gyarados and Swampert along with attracting Fire, Ice, Bug, Ghost and Dark type attacks to give Heatran a safe switch in.

    EDIT: I agree with Twist of Fate that your team is weak to Mixmence; but which team isn't? Swampert is a good idea but Rotom can also come in on an Earthquake and hope to paralyze/burn it with Discharge/Will O Wisp or Rest if you think it will Draco Meteor.
  25. Doctor Who?

    Doctor Who?

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    I agree with Twist of Fate here, change Boah to a Scarftar.

    I really like Gliscor and had a long obsession with for a time but when I ran it with Stealth Rock it didn't work as well. With U-Turn you can U-Turn out of suicide leads and kill them easily. As well as this, it also makes it a sort of check to Offensive Celebi, which can give this team problems. After Stealth Rock or Spikes damage, U-Turn from Gliscor out to TTar and then you can Pursuit for a KO.

    If you don't run SR on Gliscor run it on Skarmory>>Brave Bird. I don't like self-damaging moves on a tank/wall.

    Just some suggestions. Hope I helped.

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