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The Twin Terrors of the Rain

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Trinitrotoluene, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,214
    The Twin Terrors of the Rain


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Changes will be bolded.

    If you've been reading my RMTs, then you most likely will note that I am a huge fan of the sand. I've based many teams around sand, and most of them have been a modest success. I went through Round 50 of the B101 program with Huntofthelion a while back. He taught me a few things, but the most important lesson I gained from him was how I played. With that bit of knowledge in mind, I decided to create a rain team after looking through several concepts to test my ability to build teams that don't use Tyranitar or any of the sand sweepers that follow. With most of the speculation for R5 of suspect voting centering around Thundurus, I figured that it was time to use it to the maximum before it is pushed on over to Ubers (if it's voted upon that way). Anyways, now that I most likely have bored you with this long, tedious intro, here's the team building process.


    The Team at a Glance:


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Team Building Process (open)

    Act I of Team Building
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    When I skimmed a list of concepts, a deadly one that emerged was not SmashPassing (stopped by pHazing and Quagsire), but Double Genie abuse. Naturally, I decided to play with that idea, and obviously, I can't have a Double Genie team without Tornadus and Thundurus, so they went in.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    What's the best way to make rampaging through OU with the genies easier? That's simple to answer. Just use Drizzle! Now, since Kyogre is sitting on its throne as an Uber king, I can't consider that for Drizzle support. I naturally had to go to the next best available Drizzler, Politoed, which I never thought would be useful at all. It ended up surpassing all my expectations.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] or [​IMG]
    It's obvious that Stealth Rock is going to cause the genies a headache or two, so I decided to add a Rapid Spinner to make life much easier for them. I had a choice between Forretress and Starmie. I could go for the generic support Forretress and gain the ability to spin and set hazards on one Pokemon at the cost of some offensive momentum or go with Starmie and force another Pokemon of mine to run Stealth Rock with the benefits of maintaining momentum and getting a pseudo-status absorber. I decided to settle that later.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] or [​IMG][​IMG]
    I saw opposing Thundurus as a threat to this team's well-being, so I added Rotom-W to the team for further rain abuse and for checking opposing Thundurus and weather. I immediately decided it was to be Scarfed, "just for lulz."

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] or [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I had acceptable methods for dealing with most Steel-type Pokemon, but I wanted a more reliable method for dealing with them (especially Scizor), as they were capable of ruining the genies with their impressive list of resistances and for some, their brutal offensive capability. Magnezone was just what I was looking for. Using Magnezone also gave me a third Thunder abuser.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I needed to settle for my choice of Rapid Spinner, and I ultimately went with Forretress for its ability to lay hazards AND spin them away while keeping it to one Pokemon, granting this team flexibility.

    End Act I of Team Building

    With that settled, I thought my team was good, that nothing could break it without a ton of effort. Then, I went and tested it. No need for you to guess what happened. It was horrible. It was beaten by the most random stuff. I decided to scrap it, but work on the double genie concept even further. I kept the genies and Toed, but I decided to implement different members over Rotom-W, Magnezone, and Forretress.

    Act II of Team Building

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] or [​IMG]▲to be determined▲to be determined​
    Looking upon my spinning choices, I decided to test Starmie over Forretress, being disappointed by the results of my Forretress run. It works better that Forretress ever did.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]▲to be determined​
    Gliscor was added to the team to deal with Excadrill and other sweepers should the rain not be up when I need it to be. It also serves as a good stall-breaker, status absorber (when Toxic Orb activates), and steel buster, which makes sweeping with the genies that much easier.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Ferrothorn was added for its bulk and ability to lay Stealth Rock down with ease. I decided to use an unconventional Ferrothorn set to surprise most of its usual counters.

    End Act II of Team Building



    For the Raters and Stealers (open)
    Politoed (F) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Perish Song
    - Toxic
    - Rest

    Tornadus (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hurricane
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - U-turn

    Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin

    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Taunt

    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Bulldoze
    - Stealth Rock



    The Team in Detail:


    [​IMG](F) @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP | 252 Def | 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    ~ Scald
    ~ Perish Song
    ~ Toxic
    ~ Rest

    "May soft rains fall upon the field of battle and bring power to the storm at your command."

    Why this Pokemon was chosen:

    Politoed's Drizzle is needed for Tornadus to be effective, and it helps Thundurus's cause immensely. As a lead, it serves as an annoyer for many lead strategies. Are you accumulating boosts to pass to a sweeper with Ninjask? Perish Song ruins that. Do you have a Tyranitar? Toxic ruins its durability. On its own however, it lacks power, but for what it lacks in power, it makes up in utility. It's fun to use, and it mostly serves as a defensive pivot for my team. The EVs give Politoed maximum defense on the physical side, which is beneficial because most sand sweepers are physically based. Scald's burn chance makes it a risk for physical sweepers to switch in on it. Perish Song and Encore let Toed disrupt many set-up strategies while ChestoRest gives Politoed a second chance at life. Overall, this set in conjunction with Starmie's Rapid Spin lets me win most weather wars I'm placed through.

    Am I considering any changes to this Pokemon?

    • A RestTalking set at the cost of disruptive value
    • A Specs set with max HP and Special Attack and the following moves: Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Hidden Power Grass, Perish Song
    • A more specially defensive spread
    Changes made:

    • Toxic over Encore (thanks IronBullet93!)
    Synergy:

    [​IMG]: Gliscor, Ferrothorn
    [​IMG]: Tornadus, Thundurus, Ferrothorn

    [​IMG](M) @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SAtk | 4 SDef | 252 Spd
    IVs: 30 Atk | 30 Def
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    ~ Hurricane
    ~ Hidden Power Ice
    ~ Focus Blast
    ~ U-turn

    "Raging winds in this storm bring fear to the battlefield, but those winds are in your control. Blow your enemies away!"

    Why this Pokemon was chosen:

    Say hello to Barry the Tornadus! Tornadus is the first genie in this team, and he serves as a scout and early-game wallbreaker for the team. He comes in on Virizion and other Grass-types that threaten Politoed, Starmie, and Ferrothorn and threatens them with Hurricane. When I first bring Tornadus in, I U-turn to scout their primary Tornadus switch-in and bring a teammate into a favorable match-up. On my next Tornadus switch-in, I attack with Hurricane to fish out their switch-in and get some damage on them. If their Tornadus counter is scarfed, which I usually will have figured out by that point, I switch in my check and apply pressure. Hurricane is Tornadus's only STAB move worth using at all, and it transforms Tornadus into a veritable threat that must be stopped at all costs. Focus Blast with Specs lets me nail Tyranitar and many of its potential checks. Hidden Power Ice lets me troll the dragons that reign OU without fear. U-turn lets me see how my opponent reacts, as noted above. The given IVs let me use Hidden Power Ice without losing a Speed point while the EVs are the generic sweeper spread The Timid nature lets me preserve Tornadus's already frail physical defense at the cost of its negligible Attack.

    Am I considering any changes to this Pokemon?

    • Rain Dance over one of the present moves not named Hurricane
    • Focus Blast over Hammer Arm Implemented.
    Changes made:

    • Specs with Focus Blast is being used over LO and Hammer Arm (thanks everyone!)
    • Attack IVs changed to 30, HP to 31
    • EVs changed from 24 Atk | 232 SAtk | 252 Spd with Naive to 252 SAtk | 4 SDef | 252 Spd with Timid
    Synergy:

    [​IMG]: Gliscor, Ferrothorn
    [​IMG]: Politoed, Starmie
    [​IMG]: Ferrothorn, Gliscor

    [​IMG] (M) @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SAtk | 4 SDef | 252 Spd
    IVs: 30 Atk | 30 Def
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    ~ Nasty Plot
    ~ Thunder
    ~ Focus Blast
    ~ Hidden Power Ice

    "The crackling lightning shines a harsh light to your grim face, buffeted by the storm, and strikes your opponents down, one by one."

    Why this Pokemon was chosen:

    Give your greetings to Paul the Thundurus. He is the second genie of this team, and he also is the harder-hitting genie IMO with his Nasty Plot, Life Orb boosted attacks. He serves as this team's late-game sweeper. He comes in whenever an opportunity for a Thundurus sweep opens itself, such as a Skarmory setting Spikes up for its team or a Gliscor using Protect. He then uses Nasty Plot and proceeds to rend to opposition with its powerful Thunder, using Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice only when needed. He also checks potent Shell Smash sweepers such as Cloyster and Gorebyss before they can wreak havoc on this team. The EVs are the generic sweeper spread with the last 4 EVs placed in Special Defense. The IVs let me use Hidden Power Ice without losing a speed point, often letting me win the Speed tie against opposing Thundurus that forget to set their IVs to allow for maximum Speed (the default IVs for Hidden Power Ice are 30 Speed IVs). Timid was chosen because the speed is needed and Life Orb + Nasty Plot makes up for the lack of Modest.

    Am I considering changes to this Pokemon?

    Changes made:

    • None made
    Synergy:

    [​IMG]: Politoed, Starmie
    [​IMG]: Ferrothorn, Gliscor

    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 SAtk | 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Thunder
    ~ Recover
    ~ Rapid Spin

    "A small echinoderm may seem insignificant in this storm, but it plays a large role in preserving it. Spin yourself, make the storm faster..."

    Why this Pokemon was chosen:

    RAPID SPIN. Need I say more? Actually, I have to. Starmie is this team's Rapid Spinner of choice, seeing that Forretress brought a massive amount of fail to the first iteration of this team. It also serves as the generic hard-hitting Water ever-present on rain teams, genie revenger, and pseudo-status absorber, should Gliscor's Poison Heal not activate at that point of the game. It comes in on Fire attacks aimed at Ferrothorn and Ice attacks aimed at Gliscor and the genies. I open with Hydro Pump if I see that my opponent has a Ghost in the wings because, more often than not, s/he'll send in his/her Ghost in on a predicted Rapid Spin only to get smacked in the face with Hydro Pump. If my opponent's Ghost is a Jellicent, I'll use Thunder and score a 2HKO on it. Hydro Pump and Thunder are powerful moves that benefit from the rain. Rapid Spin helps the genies mow through my opponent's team with minimal effort. Recover preserves Starmie's life so it can spin multiple times throughout the battle. The EVs are placed where they currently are for the same reasons as Thundurus.

    Am I considering any changes to this Pokemon?

    • Ice Beam over Thunder, just to deal more damage to opposing Thundurus at the cost of dealing with Jellicent more efficiently
    • Life Orb and BoltBeam over Recover and Lefties
    • A TrickScarf set to revenge kill
    • Surf over Hydro Pump to help with accuracy
    Changes made:

    • None made
    Synergy:

    [​IMG]: Tornadus, Thundurus, Gliscor
    [​IMG]: Ferrothorn
    [​IMG]: Gliscor, Ferrothorn
    [​IMG]: Ferrothorn
    [​IMG]: Tornadus, Thundurus, Ferrothorn

    [​IMG] (F) @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP | 176 Def | 80 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    ~ Swords Dance
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Fang
    ~ Taunt

    "A being of the sand makes itself at home in this perfect storm, stopping the sand that could dull the sharpness of the storm."

    Why this Pokemon was chosen:

    Gliscor was a good Pokemon in Generation IV. Granted it wasn't the best, but it got the stall-breaking job done with the aid of the sand. Now, in Generation V, Poison Heal lets Gliscor step its stall-breaking, Fighting-type stopping game up with the ability that made Breloom so difficult to deal with while freeing up a slot for both Swords Dance and Taunt, letting Gliscor rampage until a Bronzong or something faster shows up. It comes in on Electric moves aimed at the genies, Politoed, and Starmie, and Fighting-type moves aimed at Ferrothorn. Taunt and Swords Dance are the two moves Gliscor needs to make life problematic for stall teams. Earthquake and Ice Fang are needed to provide the most complete coverage possible in two moves. The EVs let me outspeed stall-breaking Mew and get the jump on the standard Taunt SD Gliscor by one point while taking most physical attacks well. An Impish nature helps facilitate its ability to wall the physical spectrum.

    Am I considering any changes to this Pokemon?

    • A set purely focused on walling and not sweeping
    • More defensive EVs at the cost of Speed and losing opposing Gliscor match-ups
    Changes made:

    • None made
    Synergy:

    [​IMG]: Politoed, Starmie
    [​IMG]: Politoed, Starmie, Ferrothorn

    [​IMG] (F) @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP | 48 Def | 208 SDef
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    ~ Power Whip
    ~ Leech Seed
    ~ Bulldoze
    ~ Stealth Rock

    "Fear comes in small packages, and the rocks placed in this storm help drop pressure on those who must weather it."

    Why this Pokemon was chosen:

    I eventually saw the need for a more defensive Ferrothorn set. I decided to go with the standard support Ferrothorn set with Bulldoze over any other option given to weaken Heatran and Magnezone on the switch. I play Ferrothorn more conservatively due to its marked decrease in power. However, the defensive EVs allow me to slip up once with it without major consequences. Its typing, combined with its defensive EVs, allow me to wall Latios and other strong special attackers not named CM Reuniclus and Swift Swimmers ad infinitum. Stealth Rock is Ferrothorn's card in this team, and its main purpose for being here. Power Whip and Bulldoze allow me to nail my opponent's Pokemon while Leech Seed helps augment Lefties recovery. The EVs let me take Latios's Draco Meteor with plenty to spare as well as Starmie's LO rain boosted Hydro Pumps while a Sassy nature lets Ferrothorn wall on the special side, considering that I have Politoed and Gliscor for physical walling.

    Am I considering any changes to this Pokemon?

    • The generic support Ferrothorn Implemented.
    • Explosion over Stealth Rock
    • Shed Shell, at the cost of Attacking strength
    Changes made:

    • Ferrothorn made more defensive, with Lefties over CB
    • EVs changed from 252 HP | 252 Atk | 4 SDef with Brave to 252 HP | 48 Def | 208 SDef with a Sassy nature (thanks again IronBullet93!)
    • Gyro Ball replaced with Leech Seed
    Synergy:

    [​IMG]: Tornadus, Thundurus, Gliscor
    [​IMG]: Politoed, Starmie



    One Last Look at the Team:


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,214
    Code:
    Offensive Threats
     
    [IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon142.png[/IMG] Aerodactyl - Gliscor, Starmie, Politoed, and Ferrothorn all make this UU mon sad.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/567.png[/IMG] Archeops - Same thing as Aerodactyl, but I play more conservatively because of its increased power. Starmie and Thundurus can revenge kill if it isn't Scarfed.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/9/9b/Ani482MS.png[/IMG] Azelf - Starmie makes Azelf miserable with its STAB, rain boosted Hydro Pumps.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/625.png[/IMG] Bisharp - Never seen one effectively used in battle, but Gliscor is my surefire counter.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/7e/Ani286MS.png[/IMG] Breloom - Starmie takes the initial Spore if Gliscor's Poison Heal hasn't activated yet.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/609.png[/IMG] Chandelure - The rain ruins Chandelure's Fire STAB, but Politoed is my only reasonable switch-in. Good thing Shadow Tag hasn't been released.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/638.png[/IMG] Cobalion - Target its weaker Special Defense with boosted Thunders and Hurricanes. If that fails, then go to Gliscor if it's a Swords Dancer or Starmie if it's a Calm Minder.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/534.png[/IMG] ConkelHURR - Tornadus makes ConkelHURR sad with its powerful Hurricanes and Gliscor can also make it sad with its defenses and Taunt.
    [IMG]http://pldh.net/media/pokecons/555.png[/IMG] Darmanitan - Rain + Gliscor = useless Darmanitan.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/386-speed.png[/IMG] Deoxys-S - Politoed does a good job at annoying the lead Deoxys-S, while the late-game Deoxys-S are take out with a combination of Gliscor, Ferrothorn, and Starmie.
    [IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon149.png[/IMG] Dragonite - It loses to the genies if it isn't Scarfed, and it loses to Gliscor if it's a physical variant. The Parashuffler also loses to Gliscor as well as Ferrothorn.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/621.png[/IMG] Druddigon - Assume the same procedures executed for the Parashuffler Dragonite set.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/604.png[/IMG] Eelektross - An underrated Pokemon. Just blast it with Focus Blasts and boosted Hydro Pumps until it falls.
    [IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon466.png[/IMG] Electivire - If it's holding Air Balloon, try to get a good hit on it using my team member currently in the field, as it usually will fall to a good hit. If it's a LO abuser, then it dies even faster.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/500.png[/IMG] Emboar - Starmie and Tornadus make life bad for this inferior Fire / Fighting type (fun fact: this was my starter in Black!).
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/37/Ani395MS.png[/IMG] Empoleon - Fall to the Thunders of my team you former pseudo-Chomp.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a7/196MS.png[/IMG] Espeon - If it isn't a Dual Screens variant, then Tornadus is my main Pokemon for dealing with it. If it's a Dual Screens variant, then I'll use Thundurus and set up one Nasty Plot as it screens, and attack from there.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/589.png[/IMG] Escavalier - This is probably the best Reuniclus check in existence, but am I running a Reuniclus? No. All joking aside, it falls to a boosted Thunder, and it can't do anything to Gliscor.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/530.png[/IMG] Excadrill - Bow down to Politoed and Gliscor.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/18/Ani094MS.png[/IMG] Gengar - The genies and Starmie make this poltergeist not so happy.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/623.png[/IMG] Golurk - Fall to Starmie's Hydro Pump.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d1/Ani130MS.png[/IMG] Gyarados - PK THUNDER!
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/612.png[/IMG] Haxorus - If it's a DDer, then I go to Ferrothorn as it Outrages my team. If it's a SDer, then I have more leverage to use the genies.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/03/Ani485MS.png[/IMG] Heatran - Politoed and Starmie mock Heatran (which is a really cool Pokemon).
    [IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon214.png[/IMG] Heracross - Tornadus can't switch in, but when it does get in, Heracross has to switch out or face a mighty Hurricane.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/635.png[/IMG] Hydreigon - Fall to the might of the genies. If you're Scarfed and locked into Draco Meteor, then Ferrothorn is your bane.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/74/Ani392MS.png[/IMG] Infernape - Fall to Tornadus.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/77/Ani385MS.png[/IMG] Jirachi - Perish Song works, and so does a boosted Thunder.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/14/Ani135MS.png[/IMG] Jolteon - Eep. Ferrothorn is most qualified to take on Jolteon, so if I see this on the Team Preview, I play more conservatively with it.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d8/Ani230MS.png[/IMG] Kingdra - Ferrothorn is my only defense against it unless it's locked into Outrage. It's this Pokemon that's making me consider a more defensive Ferrothorn.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/553.png[/IMG] Krookodile - I wrote the analysis for Krookodile, so I know what's coming. Hurricanes and Hydro Pumps make the Pokemon I analyzed sad.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/646.png[/IMG] Kyurem - Remove Hail. Become useless against Ferrothorn. I win!
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/645.png[/IMG] Landorus - The genies on my team and Starmie all work well.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/381.png[/IMG] Latios - Ferrothorn.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/549.png[/IMG] Lilligant - Ferrothorn, and if all else fails, Tornadus.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b0/Ani448MS.png[/IMG] Lucario - Fall to Gliscor should you not have Ice Punch. Otherwise, fall to Thundurus.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/cc/Ani068MS.png[/IMG] Machamp - Hurricane says hi. However, it will cause a slight amount of damage.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d8/Ani462MS.png[/IMG] Magnezone - Ferrothorn and Gliscor work well to ruin this Mag.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/67/Ani473MS.png[/IMG] Mamoswine - Starmie and Politoed.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/49/Ani376MS.png[/IMG] Metagross - Starmie and Thundurus. Seeing that most of them carry Ice Punch, I can't rely only on Gliscor, but should I figure that it doesn't have Ice Punch, Gliscor is what I use.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/620.png[/IMG] Mienshao - Tornadus.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/579.png[/IMG] Reuniclus - Perish Song from Politoed ruins its attempts at a set-up.
    [IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon407.png[/IMG] Roserade - Tornadus.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/373.png[/IMG] Salamence - Assume procedures for Dragonite, but place frailty above defenses.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/586.png[/IMG] Sawsbuck - Remove the sun. Ferrothorn wins.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b4/Ani212MS.png[/IMG] Scizor - Hurricane and Thunder ruin Scizor's day.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/560.png[/IMG] Scrafty - Hurricane ruins Scrafty's day, and boosted Thunders do the same.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/492-land.png[/IMG] Shaymin - Hurricane also ruins Shaymin's day.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/561.png[/IMG] Sigilyph - It suffers from boosted Thunders even after a Cosmic Power.
    [IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon235.png[/IMG] Smeargle - Have Starmie take the Spore, then switch Gliscor in and work from there. Smeargle is not a common threat.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/19/Ani121MS.png[/IMG] Starmie - Ferrothorn.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/639.png[/IMG] Terrakion - Starmie and the genies, unless it's Scarfed. In that case, Gliscor picks up the slack.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/642.png[/IMG] Thundurus - Starmie's Hydro Pump.
    [IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon468.png[/IMG] Togekiss - Thundurus and Gliscor.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/641.png[/IMG] Tornadus - Starmie.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/5/59/Ani248MS.png[/IMG] Tyranitar - Politoed and Gliscor.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/df/003MS.png[/IMG] Venusaur - Remove the sun and resort to Ferrothorn.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/494.png[/IMG] Victini - Victini is an uncommon threat, but Gliscor and Starmie take it on comfortably.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/640.png[/IMG] Virizion - Tornadus.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/637.png[/IMG] Volcarona - Tornadus and Starmie.
    [IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a0/Ani461MS.png[/IMG] Weavile - Politoed does a good job against this, and so does Ferrothorn.
    [IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/571.png[/IMG] Zoroark - Watch for it in Team Preview, and if I suspect anything, launch an attack and watch for the damage percentages of my opponent's Pokemon.
     
          

  3. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
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    hey this is a great team, i love the pictures, and love the layout and a lot of effort has been put into this rmt, ill test it out for a bit and then edit in a proper rate
    :)


    edit: I think politoed could do well with a specs set for that extra power, also specs on tornadus would be good also as i have found the genies tend to die rather quickly and this will reduce recoil, while also grabbing some possibly game changing ohko's

    Also faster threats like a life orb starmie can tear apart most of this team, and i would consider switching ferrothorn to a regular support set and politoed to specially defensive if you are not going specs as other rain teams can batter this team with boosted water attacks as ferrothorn has no means of recovery and wont be taking very many hits

    This is a really nice team with lots of offensive pressure and gl with it :)
  4. Immoral Wombat

    Immoral Wombat

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
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    117
    Using both Thundurus and Tornadus seems like a fun idea to me. However, I think that you shouldn't combine it with Starmie. Starmie and the genies (band name anyone) all fill pretty much the same niche being fast special attackers. As such, I think your team will have a lot of trouble breaking through Blissey and Chansey, as the only one who can pose a threat to them is Gliscor, and he is needed for other things too. All in all, I think you should try to find another spinner.

    Since you don't like Forretress, I will recommend Excadril. He is an offensive threat like Starmie, can spin (which is sort of unexpected, and most Ghost-type won't be keen to switch in), and serves as a check to Sandstorm teams which threaten your rain team. Hope it helps.
  5. Griff

    Griff

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    Jul 6, 2011
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    First post + team rate.

    Hey there Wario, I know you have HP Ice on Thundurus, but IMO Ice Beam is also good on Starmie, you never know when you need a good ice move.
    Are you feeling like you are losing a lot of HP? I mean you have lefties, if you had LO I could see the need for it. Just a nitpick.
    I have run encore politoed and specs politoed to some success, I have to say I like specs better. Have you tried it yet?
  6. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 free as a bird
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

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    Hey,

    This is a very well-built rain team, and I can't see many weaknesses. I definitely wouldn't support a Specs Politoed over your current one, your team packs plenty of power already, and your current set is excellent for weather wars. The set is fine the way it is. One thing you might want to consider is Toxic over Encore, as both Encore and Perish Song accomplish mostly the same thing, i.e phazing and dealing with stat-uppers. Toxic helps a lot against opposing Politoed and especially Gastrodon, who stands in the way of your main sweepers.

    If you decide to try out Focus Blast over Hammer Arm on Tornadus, consider trying a Specs set. A Specs set obviously increases its survivability, and powers up Hurricane to insane levels without the recoil. Obviously the inability to switch moves is a problem, but the increased power is very welcome. Most Tornadus start off by spamming U-turn to weaken likely counters such as TTar and Jirachi until it is safe to spam Hurricane, which is something Specs accomplishes better than Life Orb. Obviously get rid of the Attack EVs and defense hindering nature if you switch to specs.

    A Rain-boosted Hydro Pump does more than a super-effective Ice Beam for Starmie, so unless you have problems with Dragonite or Mence, there is no point in switching Thunder for Ice Beam.

    That Ferrothorn set looks incredibly fun, but you would definitely be better off with the standard defensive set. Your current Ferrothorn set has no recovery or Sp Def EVs, and it is basically your only defense against Specs Draco Meteors from Latios or Hydro Pumps from Politoed. The standard spread of 252 HP | 48 Def | 208 Sp Def with a Relaxed nature should work fine, although Sassy is an option as you have Gliscor and Politoed to deal with physical attackers. You can keep Bulldoze if you wish, as I doubt HP Fire from Maggy 2HKOs Ferrothorn without Specs under rain, although Spikes or Thunder Wave would be much more effective for Magnezone-less teams.

    Good luck!
  7. Rackham

    Rackham

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    252
    Hi there,

    This is a great team and a fantastic RMT. I would have to second IronBullet's suggestion of changing Tornadus to a specs set. I also love the use of CB Ferrothorn- a truly underrated threat although I would suggest a slightly more defensive spread of 252HP/48ATK/208Sp.Def (Brave nature) to help alleviate the slight weakness to dragon type moves.

    Aside from that, great team, I haven't seen many offensive teams lately and this is a breath of fresh air, breaking away from the generic Gliscor-Jirachi-Rotom core.
  8. Lemonade.

    Lemonade. fluffy bird
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    This is a cool team. I made a Tornadus-Thunderus rain team last night for fun, but it worked surprisingly well (although I haven't changed from Forry yet lol, it is fail).
    Third for a specs Tornadus. It has so much power that near endgame you can win with about four Hurricanes and not worry about prediction. All you need to get rid of are Tyranitar, SDef Jirachi (NP Thunder does this), and like Rotom-W (Thunder also does this). In SS, SR+LO+SS damage is HUGE so Specs would increase longlivety a bit. Just Focus Blast Tar and stuff.
  9. Icey The King Of ice

    Icey The King Of ice

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
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    i agree that you should change you ferrothorn to a more sp defensive set. as from your ferrothorn you abously like using power so i think this set will work good for you.

    Ferrothorn
    item: leftovers
    EVs: HP-252, sp def-252, Att-6
    moves: Curse,Leech Seed,Gyro ball,stealth rock

    i know you want stealth rocks but if you want to change it put a protect in. i really like this set and i think it may go well with the team.
  10. Boondocker

    Boondocker

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
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    It is bothersome that you have nothing to force ferrothorn out with. Maybe run a sd version (the grass/fight) over starmie? You could always put priority taunt on one of the genies to stop sr. Also you have nothing to block rapid spin but i dont know what ghost to add without messing up the team.
  11. Griff

    Griff

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
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    238
    Focus blast scares ferro ou
  12. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Responses!

    Responses, responses. I think it's time for me to respond to the rates given.

    Thanks for the compliments on the layout Razza. I'm looking into the Specs Tornadus set, and the more I play with it, the more I realize I miss the ability to recover once fully for free and disrupt my opponents that my current set has. I'm testing the generic support Ferrothorn, and it's working just fine taking hits.

    Starmie isn't there to sweep. It's there to spin hazards away so my team can switch around easier. Excadrill will compound a few weaknesses in this team, so no, I'm not using it.

    Specs Poli doesn't have recovery. I like the power, but I prefer the recovery.

    I'm updating my thread soon, and I've tried out all your suggestions. They work great, especially the Specs Tornadus!

    Thanks. I'm trying all those out, and they work just as well as what I currently am running.

    Forretress is fail. Use Starmie. I'll update the OP soon with Specs Tornadus over my current version.

    After trying it out, I can say this: Curse Ferrothorn is useless. It's stopped too easily. The support version is so much better.

    Gliscor forces Ferrothorn out, and so do the genies.

    True.

    Edit: Done updating!
  13. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Bumping to get more rates with the updates done!
  14. Lemonade.

    Lemonade. fluffy bird
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    One thing I've been using on Thunderus is Substitiute instead of Focus Blast. I've found this problematic when Tyranitar comes in, but Tornadus can take it out with good prediction and Starmie/Toed can chip away at it's health. Sub is huge because it gives you such a good safety net. It also works better than on non-rain sets because you have a powerful STAB in Thunder, not needing FB for coverage as much, rather than the less powerful Thunderbolt. If you outspeed (like Latios), you can NP and HP Ice it. It they have priority, you can slam it with thunder. Most Scizor variants are KO'd when they BP to break your subs, etc. You can set up on Ferro because Sub will block everything it can do to you.
  15. Farewell

    Farewell

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    No need for Ice Beam to hit Thundurus. Hydro Pump without Rain hits for 180 Base Power, only 10 less than Ice Beam when super effective. Under Rain even Surf does more than Ice Beam.
  16. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    Excellent team. I just thing it would be good to have something like Breloom or Toxicroak to beat ferrothorn, blissey, etc. Not sure where to use them, though. Or, if you don't like them, use mixed thundurus with hammer arm if you want. Good luck!
  17. hipoke

    hipoke

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    Cool RMT you has der. Looks like your team is really well built and stuff so props to you for that. Although have you ever tried Toxicroak? It can really screw with teams that are unprepared. A simple Substitute/SD/Sucker Punch/Drain Punch set does wonders with Dry Skin and Black Sludge, and is a great partner with Thundurus and Tornadus. Great team though, and looks like you spent a lot of time on this RMT and it looks really nice.
  18. Ziaf999

    Ziaf999

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
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    I love the layout you used, and the team looks solid too.

    You did say you're updating this soon, so I don't know if you were already planning this: With Choice Specs and Focus Blast, you don't need Naive Nature anymore. You can go for Timid on both Genies.
    For opposing Thunderus, how much does Starmie's Hydro Pump do? Is it a clean KO?
    What do you do to Blissey / Eviolite Chansey if you're replacing Hammer Arm with Focus Blast?
  19. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

    Joined:
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    yes, Starmie (252 EVs, Neutral Nature) Hydro Pump vs Thundurus@Choice Scarf (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 98.3 ~ 115.7% (294 ~ 346 HP) (Rain)

    Wario, I must say this is an AMAZINGLY presented team.

    Your team is really really good, I'll give you that.

    I'd recommend LO > Lefties and Surf > Hydro Pump on Starmie. The accuracy on Hydro Pump is horrible - LO surf actually is more powerful than Hydro Pump, dealing a minimum of 100.7% to 0/0 Thundurus (compared to the 98.3% above). You still have recover, and honestly lefties isn't doing much for starmie.

    Lucario - Fall to Gliscor should you not have Ice Punch. Otherwise, fall to Thundurus.

    +2 ES OHKOs Thundurus T__T. Thankfully it can't set up on anything, but if it does you're likely dead.
  20. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
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    Another set of rates has made its way to the table. Now, I'll reply.

    Sub on Thundurus sounds very cool! I'll try that sometime soon.

    Thanks. I forgot to update Starmie's entry in my RMT.

    Ooh, a suspect voter rated my team! Gliscor beats Ferrothorn and Blissey, but I see your point. A Fighting-type might do well for my team. I can't fit Toxicroak into my team because he'll add a vulnerability to Ground. Breloom sounds good though. I'll try him out soon, but I don't know who to replace, considering that each member plays such a big role in my team.

    Thanks for the compliment. Read my commentary regarding Toxicroak.

    Updated the thread, and thanks for the catch with Tornadus's nature. I make sure Gliscor doesn't die.

    LO Surf on Starmie sounds good. Lucario almost never finds room to set itself up on my team, considering that TOed can Perish Song it, the genies can hit it hard with powerful attacks, and Starmie can hit it hard. The only members that he can supposedly set up on are Ferrothorn and Gliscor should it be holding an Air Balloon. Thanks to that bit of knowledge, I'll be considering Sub over Focus Blast on Thundurus, just to nail Lucario. I don't know how that's going to turn out though...
  21. Griff

    Griff

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    If you don't wanna miss you can. It's for dem pesky dragons.
  22. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

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    On a sand team it can come in and threaten to KO Politoed with CC and then you lose. Also Substitute won't help since ES is +2 priority. The best solution, IMO, is Tentacruel > Starmie.

    Bulldoze from Ferrothorn helps, but

    Ferrothorn (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Bulldoze vs Lucario@Life Orb (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 39.8 ~ 46.9% (112 ~ 132 HP) (Rain)

    It needs LO to get KOs though.

    In fact, even without +2, Lucario can really sweep a weakened version of your team. Of course, Luke is fairly uncommon, but it seems to be a huge threat to you.

    Lucario@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature) Close Combat vs Ferrothorn (252/48 EVs, +Nature): 97.7 ~ 115.9% (344 ~ 408 HP) (Rain)

    Lucario@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature) Ice Punch vs Gliscor (252/176 EVs, +Nature): 76.8 ~ 90.3% (272 ~ 320 HP) (Rain)

    Lucario@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature) Close Combat vs Politoed (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 56.2 ~ 66.4% (216 ~ 255 HP) (Rain)

    Lucario@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature) Extremespeed vs Thundurus (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 49.3 ~ 58.3% (148 ~ 175 HP) (Rain)

    Lucario@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature) Extremespeed vs Tornadus (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 49.3 ~ 58.3% (148 ~ 175 HP) (Rain)

    Lucario@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature) Extremespeed vs Starmie (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 48.4 ~ 57.2% (127 ~ 150 HP) (Rain)

    It can come in on Ferrothorn and you either 1.) Lose Ferrothorn 2.) Lose another Poke 3.) Half your team is severely weakened 4.) He SDs and you lose.

    TL;DR: Lucario comes in on Ferrothorn and 6-0s you.

    Tentacruel > Starmie, speedy Gliscor, Gyarados > something, Azumarill > something, are all ideas.. Thankfully Ice Punch Lucario is very uncommon...
  23. Pride

    Pride

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    Mar 5, 2007
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    295
    I've been running an almost identical team for months now (and was actually ranked quite high for a while) and I have to know how you effectively deal with Blissey/Chansey? Specifically Blissey with Ice Beam. I run spikes on Nattorei and Hammer Arm on Thunder Man to deal with the two and even then it can be annoying. Right now it seems like they can waltz in on 3 to 5 of your 6 members and neutralize them.
  24. Somechips

    Somechips

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
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    Maybe you can change up Tornadus' set to help you deal with Blissey/Chansey better. I was thinking a mixed attacker set.

    Tornadus@Flying Gem
    128 ATK / 128 SATk / 252 SPE
    Acrobat
    Hurricane
    Hammer Arm
    U-turn

    not sure about the EV's, just something off the top of my head. You can change them around yourself.
  25. Rofellos

    Rofellos

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
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    307
    Hooray for being nominated for the archive! I love tornados set but i might agree with the above about acrobat. Craziest flying move I've seen but I think tornados is pretty impressive right now. Hooray for breaking the mold and using two genies! Lol

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