1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Underdog: A Uber RMT

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Matthew, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,994
    The Underdog
    Ok, well this has been my latest Uber team, it usually wins most games due to the sets I run, but I think that it's mainly because of the novelty of the pokemon I use. I have been wanting to make a new team for quite some time, but everytime I sat down I would either get something similar to my Magic Mushroom team, or my Catch Me Now team. So I sat down and thought about my team building process, how I nomally make a team. With the building process in mind, I swayed into another train of thought, and I cam up with this team.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My Thought Process
    I usually think of Ubers in the most stupid way possible; what Uber counters this other Uber. I've started to break that trend with all of the other pokemon I have tested (and succeeded with) but I was still in that rut. So I started to think, if that's how I go through teams, I might as well use sets that are rarely seen any more. So I decided to get to work. I needed a pokemon, that is not Lugia, to counter Rayquaza and some Groudon. I know I wanted a defensive core that counters one anothers weaknesses. I knew that I would want a mixed attacker that would help clean up. I also wanted a wall breaker. Last but not least I wanted a non sucide Stealth Rock lead that could counter the other average leads.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Check list

    A mixed attacker that can OHKO or 2HKO common walls
    Well, Dialga does a great job, but I'm not certain that it would be the best idea. Mix Dialga isn't used any more for a reason, so maybe I could use Mix Rayquaza or Palkia. Rayquaza has a Stealth Rock weakness, but Palkia has a less ability.
    An answer to Swords Dance Rayquaza or Dragon Dance Rayquaza
    Lugia is the main answer I have usually, but I'm getting pretty sick of the ability to switch in and stat up in her face. Maybe using Palkia in some manner can stop Rayquaza as Palkia does outspeed a normal Rayquaza. Giratina can also stop Rayquaza with Will-o-Wisp, or it can hit with Dragon Claw or Dragon Pulse.
    A non sucide Stealth Rock lead
    The choice is between Ground and Dialga to be honest. Diagla can do everything Groudon can do. Groudon, on the other hand, at worst only has to deal with another Groudon lead, where Dialga has to deal with oher Dialga and Groudons.
    A powerful wall breaker
    Kyogre
    A defensive combo
    Forretress and Giratina is a great defensive combo, Forretress laying down spikes while Giratina can soak up the Fire attacks that are used against Forretress. Parasect and Tyranitar are a good combo together, resisting each others weaknesses.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Overview of the team
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG] @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP/156 Atk/32 Def/8 Spd/60 SDef
    Adamant nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge


    Groudon vs other leads:
    Groudon is a fantastic anti lead. In the fact that I'm going to get rocks down, or paralyze a pokemon, no matter what. Against Darkrai I weigh the odds, do I go for the status or do I go for the rocks. 9/10 times I'm going to place rocks down against a Darkrai. Against a Mewtwo I'm going to status, a Scarf Mewtwo is going to hate having that status on him. Against Deoxys I status then kill with Earthquake, where against Dialga leads I normally just Earthquake (hoping for the OHKO). The only real problem is against other Groudon leads, I usually lose my groudon to Earthquakes, so maybe this would warent a different EV spread. Groudon benefits my team in a few ways, he changes the weather, making rain teams have a hard time. He lays down rocks, making my pokemon sweep easier, and he has the opportunity to KO a pokemon or two in the early stages of the game.

    ---
    [​IMG] @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 100 Atk/252 Spd/156 SAtk
    Hasty nature
    - Thunder
    - Spacial Rend
    - Focus Punch
    - Substitute


    Palkia vs the world:
    This is an odd Palkia set, but I've grown rather fond of it over the course of a week or so. This Palkia set is great. If I only status a pokemon with Groudon I can come in with Palkia and bluff my item. Expert Belt vs. Lustrous Orb was debatable. Lustrous Orb would boost my Spacial Rends power, but Expert Belt lets me hit most Ubers for extra damage. The real selling point of Expert Belt was that with it's boost and with Stealth Rocks in play, I have the ability to OHKO a Blissey with it. Who otherwise walls my Scarf Sweeper. Thunder is to hurt Kyogre (obviously) who is just as threatening as can be. Spacial Rend for all those scary Dragons. Focus Punch really only has one use, but it has helped me bring down a Dialga or two.

    ---
    [​IMG] @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 244 Spd/240 SAtk/24 SDef
    Modest nature
    - Water Spout
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam


    Kyogre vs other wall breakers:
    I was going to post something like "Ha, like there are better options" and move on. Then I decided that TAY would be very angry with me if I did that (maybe). Also I guess it is a fairly tasteless joke to tell the truth, I get some humor out of it. Any way Kyogre is the best wall breaker in the game. He can 2HKO anything he wants with Water Spout, and every team needs a way around him. He can handle that tiny Lugia problem I have, as well as come in on a Rock Polish Groudon, take a hit, then OHKO back with Surf. Something which my team needs. Thunder is for coverage, hits other Kyogre and Palkia, where Ice Beam will hit Rayquaza and Lati@s.

    ---
    [​IMG]@ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Aura Sphere
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Thunder


    Dialga vs other sweepers:
    I wanted to break out of the help of normalcy and this is where it led me. Scarf Dialga used to be huge (or from what I heard) and for good reason. This thing is a fantastic answer to Dragon Dance and Swords Dance Rayquaza. Rayquaza's Extreme Speed won't OHKO (unless I'm at extremely low percents) and I can easily OHKO back with Dragon Pulse. He doesn't outspeed the ever popular Choice Scarf Palkia, but he does outspeed everything else I'm worried about. Draco Meteor is for early game scouting, since Dialgas counter will still be intact. Aura Sphere is... to be honest I just copied and pasted from the analysis, I've never used Aura Sphere once, maybe it is to hit other Dialga? Or... that one Empoleon I ran into. I guess I could change Aura Sphere for Fire Blast, let me hit Scizors and Forretress hard. Dialga is my late game clean up. He does a damn good job of that to.

    ---
    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 248 HP/8 Atk/96 Def/156 SDef
    Adamant nature
    - Spore
    - Stun Spore
    - X-Scissor
    - Light Screen


    Parasect vs...
    I don't know what Parasect is versus. Parasect is there to be the first part of my defensive combo. Parasect resists 3/4 of Kyogres attacks, and can spread the status around. Parasect can also take a Palkia's Spacial Rend, set up Light Screen then stall Palkia out. Parasect is weak to Fire, Ice, Rock and Psychic. Meaning that I'm going to need a pokemon that can take every single one of those hits and then can pressure back. Parasect has won me games (see warstory We are Uber Strong) and I'm positive does not need to be removed.

    ---
    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP/80 SAtk/176 SDef
    Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Fire Blast
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    ---

    Heatran + Parasect:
    Heatran is the last part of my defensive structure, and for good reason. Heatran just BEGS Kyogre to come in, and on the switch I sub up, then either use Hidden Power [GRASS] or use Toxic. Kyogre then has to use either Thunder or a Water-type attack to break Heatrans sub, while getting hit with Toxic or HP. I then can switch to Parasect to take whatever he uses. Then I can spread even more status. Fire Blast is for STAB and to hit Groudon who is the second favorite switch in to my metal monster. Hidden Power [GRASS] vs Dragon Pulse is really my preference. I've tested both, and I've found that Hidden Power [GRASS] has helped me in the long run longer than Dragon Pulse has.

    That's my team, I've been having issues with it and I don't know why. I guess I'm slightly biased since I spent so much time making this team. Maybe I don't have a single unifying strategy and that's where this team falls apart, or maybe I'm just a bad batter. Any way, rate this extremely long RMT.
  2. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,755
    Sexy team Gen, i can't see anything that can be added without disrupting the teams synergy. As always, original but works. maybe add links where you underlined things, since i for one can't be bothered to actually look for them.
  3. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,994
    Always making me work >_>

    EDIT: For anyone who skips this team because it's an Uber team you're gay.
  4. Game Freak201

    Game Freak201

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    652
    I like how you found the CeleTran of Ubers. Maybe it can be called ParaTran. The team seems very good to me, albeit a bit slow for my liking. Unfortunately, I can really solve that problem without breaking the synergy of this team. Though, Scarf Dialga should be able to solve most of your speed problems.
  5. Morty

    Morty

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Messages:
    63
    Hey Gen! good team but it can be improved. A mid-late game darkrai outspeeds most of your pokemon and screws you in general. It amazes how many teams are darkrai weak. Also, opposing Dialga (espicially bulk up) may cause you problems. i recommend changing your scarf dialga to scarf Primape, and changing your lead Groudon to a lead Dialga that can Para, SR and get outa there to counter Ray later.
  6. Garganator

    Garganator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    540
    Interesting team Gen ;). I didn't face it yet and I hope to play against it. It would be an interesting challenge. But I agree - it's a bit slow. DDQuaza if it switches safely in may be troublesome to take down, because Dialga won't outspeed it. But luckily it won't have an easy time with switching in and especially dragon dancing. It may only do it on Heatran and that Rayquaza will probably pay for it with being poisoned by Heatrans Toxic. Also Rock Polish Groudon may be troublesome, but I guess your Groudon may take a hit and hurt it enough to make his sweep much harder. With that Groudon it looks the same as with DDQuaza - it won't have an easy time with preparing to sweep. I guess that's it - I don't see any other weaknesses and even those two sweepers will have a really hard time to start a sweep.

    I would replace that Dialga for a bit faster Scarf user, but I guess that's it. That team looks really solid for me and it's hard to replace anything with good synergy like this. Anyway, good job.
  7. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,994
    Haha, the UU's are here to stay. If I remove Scarf Dialga then I'm still pretty much fucked when it comes to other Dialga. But I'm going to go test Primeape out (my rating is so abd right now hahaha)
  8. never_again

    never_again

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    291
    since you asked for a rate, ill give one

    but Im a bit busy setting up the refreshments, so ill be brief

    Scarf Dialga has no chance vs DDRayquaza, as you dont outspeed and cant take an Outrage either.

    If you already have Palkia, you have no need for Parasect. Of course, Palkia still takes 40-50%, so I think its one or the other.

    If you need a SubPuncher, I think Mewtwo is the better choice, the only disadvantage is that it doesnt switch into Kyogre nearly as well, but once its in, its superior speed, negligible atk difference when using ur EVs, and the fact that it still prevents Rayquaza from setting up may make it a superior choice.

    So something like
    SubPunch, with Fire Blast/Grass Knot and Ice Beam

    Or, just use another Pokemon in its place, forgetting about the SubPunch (altho sub punch is a great way to beat stall), and add something to beat Rayquaza in case it does get a DD. Like force it into Outrage, then beat it with a scarfer faster than it or Scizor/Metagross with Bullet Punch.

    One last thing I noticed is that Mewtwo runs through this team, without ur Scarf Dialga

    Or, even if the scarf Dialga is still in, you basically have to Meteor, and if they switch in something like Scizor or Jirachi with Uturn, you'll always be playing catch-up

    It can: Grass Knot Groudon
    Ice Beam/FireBlast Parasect
    Aura Sphere Heatran
    Grass Knot Kyogre
    Once it realizes that Palkia isnt Scarfed, Grass Knot 2HKOs, while Rend outdamages it but you're slower.

    So, for this reason perhaps you can add something like Jirachi that will always beat it in the Rain, or just play more careful and dont risk trading Draco Meteors with another Dialga, or Palkia if they're scarfed.

    EDIT: before Im gone for the day, Id like to say that Groudon is a poor Lead these days. And the reason is because it allows DeoE to set up SR, and at least one layer of spikes. If they dont taunt and you Twave, they still have a 50/50 chance of getting one layer of Spikes up. If they Taunt as you Twave or SR, then you're screwed anyway.
  9. Stellar

    Stellar
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Orange Islands

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,666
    Well. I'm going to offer a bit of advice and give you some EV spread alternatives.

    For Groudon, you might try the following set:
    252 HP/60 Atk/12 Def/8 Spd/176 SDef [Careful]
    Earthquake / Stealth Rock / Dragon Claw / Thunder Wave @ Lum Berry

    This allows you to survive Timid Scarf Water Spout (in Sun) 100% of the time, meaning you will be able to almost always set up Stealth Rock and/or Paralyze the Kyogre. It also means that Focus Sash Deoxys-A only manages 80% max with max SpA (non +SpA natured) Grass Knot. The 60 Attack EVs mean that you always 2HKO min/min Rayquaza with Dragon Claw while still hitting Giratina and such harder.

    The Palkia set works fine (and is one that I've been using on my Ubers team). Although I have to agree with the sentiment that if you are using Palkia, Parasect isn't exactly necessary.

    Everything else seems to work together decently, so I really have nothing else to say about the other Pokemon. However, I will attempt to suggest a replacement for Parasect. You may have a bit of trouble with Sub / Nasty Plot Darkrai. Heracross actually solves a lot of your problems with other Mewtwo / Darkrai and could work well in Parasect's position.

    So you could try this Heracross, I guess:
    188 Atk/232 Spd/88 SDef [Adamant] @ Choice Scarf
    Megahorn / Close Combat / Stone Edge / Sleep Talk

    Which means that you are never 2HKOed by +2 max SpA, Timid Darkrai Dark Pulse and you OHKO 120 HP Dialga (standard Expert Belt set) 92% of the time with Close Combat + Stealth Rock damage. You still OHKO defensive Mewtwo (252 HP / 224 Def, Timid) 2/3rds of the time with Megahorn when including Stealth Rock + Leftovers (and of course OHKO if you switch into WoW).

    But those are just my two cents. Hope this helped.
  10. Verystrait-42

    Verystrait-42

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Ive used Aura Sphere against darkrai many a time.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)