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The Underdog Challenge

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Keiran, Sep 1, 2012.

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  1. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

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    Okay so finally got gold.

    Show Hide
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  2. Someoneelse

    Someoneelse Why am I here?

    Joined:
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    I'll try this.
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Someotherguy843
    Underdog Pokemon currently working with: Simipour, Swanna, Stunfisk, Gabite, Klang and Grumpig. Yes, a whole team.
    Current Ladder Ranking: 0
  3. RainbowCrash

    RainbowCrash

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    yeh im in
    Pokemon Showdown! Username:Dj vinylscratch

    Underdog Pokemon currently working with:hypno octerillery
  4. Terch

    Terch

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
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    3
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Terch
    Underdog Pokémon currently working with: Vileplume and Wailord
    Current ladder ranking: 0
  5. Antyee

    Antyee

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
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    After a load of bad luck-streaks (getting 0 full para in 9 turns, missing 9 toxic in a row etc), I decided to start over from 1600 with a new team, featuring mommy Miltank+5 nfe pokes with eviolite.
    Even if it will fail, it's quite fun.
  6. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
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    681
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: UnderdogZzzZ
    Underdog Pokemon currently working with: Swanna, Natu, Huntail, Illumise, Mawile* and Emolga.
    Current Ladder Ranking: Probabaly loosed some points cause I didnt play yesterday*
    Have only played two matches (won them both, like anyone cares lol) just going to say that Natu is extremely underused due the lack off spinners in this meta. Also Huntail is a freaking beast, and Illumise laughs at Ludicolo and Gorebyss.

    Edit: Didnt notice Mawile was under 2% so I slapped him over Wormadam-Trash.
  7. Terch

    Terch

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Needed to update mine.

    Pokémon Showdown! Username: Terch
    Underdog Pokémons currently working with: Vileplume, Wailord, Exploud, Solrock, Dordrio and lampent.
    Current ranking: around 1400
  8. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    Moderator

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    Made it to 1753 with this Sun team based around Illumise, Victreebel, and Golduck. It's been a hard journey to get even this far, and I'm already bored with the team so I doubt I'll try to get higher than Bronze.

    Screenshot (open)
    [​IMG]



    The Team (open)

    Illumise (F) @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Sunny Day
    - Encore
    - Thunder Wave
    - U-turn

    Victreebel (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature
    - Growth
    - Leaf Blade
    - Sucker Punch
    - Weather Ball

    Golduck (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Cloud Nine
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Emboar (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 124 HP / 252 SAtk / 132 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Grass Knot

    Regirock @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Drain Punch
    - Sunny Day

    Skuntank (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Taunt
    - Poison Jab


    Here are my thoughts about these underdogs:
    #172- Illumise (0.542%): While not as effective in taking Close Combats and Leaf Blades, she does take Giga Drains and Scalds very well, especially in the Sun. Other than that, Illumise is basically the same as Volbeat in effectiveness. It's a mystery why she isn't used a bit more since stuff like Amoonguss are used so much. A slow U-turn is icing on the cake for sending in something (weather sweeper or not) safely.
    #125- Victreebel (1.161%): Victreebel is actually pretty powerful, even without investment. It's bulk is pretty bad, but Sucker Punch makes up for that usually by inflicting that extra damage needed to finish off an opponent. It is usually very difficult to set up a Growth, but if it happens, then Victreebel is nearly unstoppable. The physical set is definitely very efective, and Weather Ball is a nice surprise for those Amoonguss and Tangela that like to switch in. It's unfortunate though that Emboar basically walls my Victreebel.
    #117- Golduck (1.274%): One of my favorite Water types, Golduck has yet to disappoint me. While not what anyone would call "bulky", Golduck can usually live a neutral attack and hit back/set up. My favorite strategy is to have Sun up, and use Cloud Nine to keep Golduck from being weakened. Water STAB is amazing on Sun teams, and having one that isn't weakened as well is just great. It also is very helpful against opposing weather sweepers since after a Calm Mind it can handle a great many of them. One of the only Water-types that is useable in the Sun, a great niche to have. The only thing that seems to be a problem is the lack of ability to get past special walls, even with Calm Mind boosts.
  9. Wobble

    Wobble

    Joined:
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    73
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: WobbleUNDERDOG
    Underdog Pokemon currently working with: Machoke, Simipour
    Current Ladder Ranking: 548
  10. KingQuag

    KingQuag

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    [​IMG]

    Username: AeroForceOne
    Underdog Pokemon: Beheeyem and Stunfisk
    Ranking: 13, 1805 points.

    Just a little update. I was using my AFO account for my last post since I forgot the password to my main account (this one) :3
  11. Kyuss

    Kyuss

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    Username: HoudiniUD
    Underdog Pokemon: Mawile and Simipour
    Ranking: not ranked.
  12. Keiran

    Keiran

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    449
    Updated the OP~ after a bunch of procrastinating.

    Keep up the good work guys!!
  13. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    516
    So, this is pretty much dead, but I made a new team that's doing good and it happens to have 3 underdog pokes in it. Thought I could register here since it should still be active for a week and I have enough free time to get a decent peak.

    Username: Mighty Jesus
    Underdog pokemon: Duosion, magmar, emolga
    Ranking: started from 0, I think I'm at 1100 or something
  14. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    516
    [​IMG]

    so, didn't take too long to get bronze and I'll stop here because the team really isn't as good as I hoped it would be.

    [​IMG]
    Duosion (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Thunder Wave
    - Recover

    I used Duosion as a special wall since psychic is not just good for physical walling and I find duosion a bit too frail on the physical side. Magic Guard makes him pretty awesome as a wall since he doesn't take anything from spikes, leech seed and status that are often used to wear down walls. Thunder wave supports the team and makes recovery much easier. Duosion's great special attack even unboosted is also very useful because he will do important damage to most offensive monsters that try to come in. Duosion's biggest problems really are his great weakness to pursuit, the fact he isn't walling most CM users and his weakness to specs wallbreakers because he usualy won't wall them.

    (For more info on how I used him http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4396739&postcount=20 )

    [​IMG]
    Magmar (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Overheat
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Flamethrower

    Choice scarf magmar is pretty good too, unlike his big brother magmortar, magmar has over 90 speed helping him outspeed many common scarfers. His fire stab overheat hits surprisingly hard even without LO or specs. However, the only reason to use this magmar over simisear (who can run modest and have a very strategic speed) is vital spirit (something my team needed) and a slightly better specail bulk. Vital spirit still is a pretty nice niche since he can come in on amoonguss and actualy threaten him unlike his brother electabuzz. Scarf magmar worked mainly because people didn't expect it to be scarfed though. I would probably try eviolite in another team, though flareon has access to wish so the niche is probably outclassed. I also barely ever used hp rock, I guess hp grass or electric would be better.

    [​IMG]
    Emolga (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Motor Drive
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Charge Beam
    - Air Slash
    - Substitute
    - Encore

    I had already used this set in the past and liked it a lot, I'm pretty sure Don honchkrorleone would be disappointed if I didn't specify he suggested me to put emolga in my team.
    Those who know me know I tend to abuse the move encore, and emolga is another great user. This set kind of makes me think of haunter's sub disable set. Emolga is extremly frail, but can still manage to set up through all sorts of tricks and sometimes pull of a sweep (I have 6-0'd a couple of people with emolga no joke). Immunity to ground and electric gives him good moves to encore and then get a free sub. The fact his immunity to electric comes in the form of motor drive will also help him encore many very fast electric types into their electric move (emolga has 103 speed so +1 is faster than scarf raichu and many others). Emolga can then proceed to set up with charge beam and rack up some kills simultaneously. Of course, many bulky pokemon like regirock and golem can completely stop emolga setting up, but once they're gone, you'd be surprised how easy it is to set up this little squirel, especialy if you get a motor drive boost. Emolga is also a decent check to alomomoonguss after a charge beam boost or 2.
  15. Keiran

    Keiran

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
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    449
    So, this challenge is somewhat dead now. What Underdogs worked? What didn't? Why didn't they work? What formerly uncommon Pokemon do you possibly expect to increase usage-wise as a result of this challenge? This challenge will be locked at the end of the month.
  16. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
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    563
    [​IMG]

    Ability: Shed Skin
    Ev's: 252 HP 252 SD 4 Sp
    Nature: Careful (+SD -SA)
    Bulk Up
    Rest
    Drain Punch
    Crunch/Payback​

    I would like to say that my 6 man underdog team of Illumise, Victrebel, Octillery, Shiftry, Magmar and Scraggy did make the 1750 mark with a 31-13 record as I posted earlier. I would say that I would probably use all of these pokes besides Shiftry and Illumise in the future. But the one standout star for me that deserves more than a .547% usage (though the poke ahead of it, Riolu needs alot more love as well) is Scraggy, especially late game. I would say that this poke is the best fighting type poke who can deal with all the psychic type pokes running around nu. At +1 attack with bulk up and stealth rocks up, all psychic types barring sub seed Exeggutor and Musharna are dead with the pursuing crunch and only a specs Gardevoir focus blast has only about a 40% chance to kill with stealth rocks up and a 0% chance without rocks. Sub seed exeggutor can temporarily stall out scraggy, as with its low hp stat, will be a nuisance for scraggy. However, with rest and bulk ups, at +4, scaraggy has a 30% chance to OHKO, as exeggutor cannot touch scraggy outside leech seed. Musharna cannot so much back either, as a standard CM signal beam will originally do 13% max, while an uninvested crunch will do 30% max. Specs signal beam will do 28% max.

    Besides Psychic pokes, scraggy does not have to deal with statuses, as with shed skin, there is a 30% chance the status will be "shed" (even though an attack bonus isn't that bad..) It's typing also gives it great advantages as it is immune to common psychics, stored powers and psyshocks, and takes almost no damage for moves like crunch, shadow ball, and stone edge.

    Also, with eviolite, it is also alot bulkier than most suspect. Actually, the only reliable moves and pokes that can ohko Scraggy with a +1 defense boost, (with or without stealth rocks, and without pokemon which already set up) are Choice Banded close combats from Sawk, CB Brave birds from Braviary (Superpower has a 50% chance) and CB Superpower from Emboar, which not many pokes would want to take these attacks anyway.

    Obviously, this poke has some flaws. First, this 2 foot tall 26 pound lizard has trouble keeping its trousers up. Maybe if it could find a belt, it could focus on improving its defense stat.. But fighting type and flying types are the vain of its existence. Pokes that Scraggy compete with for a spot such as throh and gurdurr can hit it with supereffective moves or phaze it out, and Scraggy cannot do much in return. Also, while this poke has excellent coverage, it won't be doing much damage to walls like alomomola, amoonguss, weezing or tangela. Ammonguss and weezing are especially annoying as they can clear smog all of Scraggy's boosts, and tangela can leech seed it back. However, these pokes cannot do much damage in return. It is highly suggested to have a physically defensive poke such as musharna or alomomola that can tank those fighting and flying moves.
  17. Incon

    Incon

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    298
    [​IMG]

    Sneasel


    @ Choice Band/Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    Nature: Jolly

    -Pursuit
    -Ice Shard
    -Ice Punch
    -Low Kick

    I already put in my thoughts on this guy earlier but i liked him so much so ill repost some key traits. Sneasel's fantastic base speed stat ties with top threat with the top threat, Cinccino which is enough to outrun most of the tier. His decent base 95 Atk is pretty high for NU and with a Band he hits pretty hard. Dual STAB in ice and dark is great offensively and his dark typing gives him the useful immunity to Psychic. Pursuit lets him be an effective trapper on Psychic and Ghost types, outspeeding all of them minus Drifblim after Unburden is activated. Good priority in Ice Shard lets him revenge kill weakened targets, although i didnt use it much due to his ability to outspeed most of the tier. While Sneasel's typing is amazing offensively, he has a multitude of weaknesses. Low Kick useful coverage on steel types who otherwise wall him. He does have some turn-offs in his terrible defensive typing, inexistant bulk, and low base power moves, but his positives outweigh his negatives. A couple of us were talking on IRC and we thought that Sneasel would be a great user of either Technician due to his multiple low base power moves or Adaptability due to his great dual STAB. Sadly, he doesnt receive either, but one can wish, can they not?
  18. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

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    I just lost this entire post but whatever. PS is down so I haven't had much of a chance to ladder a lot with my underdog team, but I'm using Masquerain and Scraggy.

    Masquerain is definitely one of the better Bug-types in the tier, since it can do something that no other Pokemon in NU can: Baton Pass Quiver Dance boosts. (In fact, the only other Pokemon period are Venomoth and Smeargle.) The reason this is significant is that while Masquerain may not be all that strong without a few boosts, slow Special Attackers (which are pretty abundant in NU) love the boosts Quiver Dance gives; Pokemon that are naturally bulky like Musharna and Ampharos in particular. The other great thing about Masquerain is Intimidate and a clutch 4x Fighting-type resist (along with an immunity to Ground, 4x Grass resist, and a Bug resist). Masquerain is able to set up on quite a few Pokemon in the tier because of it, like Gurdurr (sans Stone Edge).

    252Atk -1 Guts Gurdurr (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Masquerain (+Def): 29% - 34% (102 - 120 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

    Gurdurr doesn't even come close to KOing, and by the time people usually figure it out, Masquerain has already BP'd a boost or two.

    Scraggy, as Shuckleking87 correctly pointed out, is a beast. Having a dedicated member of my team to absorb an Amoonguss Spore or a Will-O-Wisp from a Ghost-type is clutch in this metagame. I had more typed up about Scraggy but if you've ever been on #neverused I'm sure you've heard enough, but I'll just leave this:

    252SpAtk Life Orb Musharna (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Fighting) vs 252HP/252SpDef Eviolite Scraggy (+SpDef): 38% - 44% (116 - 136 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    4Atk +1 Scraggy (Neutral) Crunch vs 252HP/0Def Musharna (Neutral): 54% - 63% (236 - 278 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    This is a very specific case but you get the idea of Scraggy's bulk. Keep it away from Fighting-types and Flying-types (though, if you have a couple boosts you can outstall Swellow: 252Atk Guts poisoned Swellow (+Atk) Brave Bird vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite +2 Scraggy (+Def): 48% - 57% (146 - 174 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 21% chance to 2HKO. Not recommended!)
  19. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Just here to point out that Swellow would be using Jolly as opposed to Adamant and that the calc has Scraggy 252 Def + a positive nature. Since I know you use Kalashnikov and that uses the same counter for both Def and SpD, you just forgot to fix it while doing the calculation.
    Fixed it looks like this:
    • 252Atk Guts poisoned Swellow (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 252HP/4Def Eviolite +2 Scraggy (Neutral): 65% - 76% (198 - 234 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO

    This is still very impressive considering its a freaking Guts-boosted super effective Brave Bird coming off from a Swellow. Assuming that the Swellow switched into Scraggy as it set up a second Bulk Up and is at full health Scraggy will actually beat Swellow. Assuming Swellow does max damage it deals 234 HP to Scraggy (leaving it at 70 HP) and deals 78 HP of damage to itself from recoil (Swellow now has 183 HP) Scraggy's +2 Drain Punch will finish off Swellow at allows it to recover 91 HP (Leaving Scraggy at 161 HP or 52%) Left with a little over half and having +2 in Defense it is capable of taking almost any following attack and either Drain Punch or Rest off the damage allowing it do even more damage against a team. Overall Scraggy is a very cool Pokemon and one of the many gems that we have found in the NU metagame. If only it was used more...
  20. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

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    Im going to have to go ahead and say that i agree with all the above posters talking about scraggy. I hyped it back in mid to late BW1 and got a very high ladder ranking on PO (1450+). With the team i was using, Scraggy is sort of a niche pokemon, but certainly worth using if you need its typing. As tennisace mentioned, Scraggy is useful in most matches due to its shed skin ability, it can switch in on pretty much any status inducing move and not care thanks to shed skin. Leaving your teammates free of problems such as spore from Amoonguss. Not to mention Scraggy's ability to use Rest alongside Shed Skin to make itself wake up early 51% of the time. Scraggy is very bulky as has already been mentioned, and is in fact on par with its evolution statwise when you factor in the defense boosts. An eviolite Scraggy has 304 hp, 264 defense, and 393 special defense, the equivalent of 50/114/129.5 defenses! A Scrafty with the same Ev spread hits 334 hp, 266 defense, and 361 special defense, 65/115/115. Another cool perk is that thanks to Scraggy's low hp, its even harder to take down after a bulk up or two. Scraggy is able to use Drain Punch to restore its hp, and with a pitiful 304 hp, Scraggy often ends up regaining 30%+ of its hp every time it uses to move after a few boosts.

    Scraggy is a very cool pokemon that ive been using for a while and its certainly an option for a bulky sweeper if you need one. Just keep it away from birds and fighters and you should have no problem running through an opposing team :).
  21. Keiran

    Keiran

    Joined:
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    Thanks for participating!! Klang seems to have gotten some love, rising all the way to #85 with 2.2% usage, just above the Underdog requirement of 2%
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