The unpredictability factor.

[SalTheThief]

There comes a time in every competitive player's life when they will be put up against their friends who are usually not on the same level of knowledge as them. Usually the battle is more of a slaughter, but there are other times when the level of unpredictability can overwhelm you. For example, I was fighting a friend with my Rain dance team when he sent out Metagross. Expecting a moveset of something composed of Steel, Ground, Electric, Normal, or Fighting I sent out Ludicolo. He resists Meteor Mash/Bullet punch and takes neutral from Thunder punch, so I figured I was going to force him to explode or switch. Out of the blue, Ludicolo is nailed in the face with Sludge bomb. I didn't even know how to respond. I wasn't expecting a special attack, much less Sludge Bomb.

Another example would be when I was fighting in a rather haxy battle (Gardevoir hit my Jirachi 5 times in a row with Focus blast, the last one getting a critkill on him[Full video can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWBlHYbyuRw]). I was down to just Breloom when he sends out Lucario. I think I remember having a narrow chance of surviving an ice punch, so I used spore to try and gain some momentum. Breloom was promptly balled up and tossed to the side with psychic. As if that wasn't bad enough, Lucario then showed the leftovers recovery animation. It was, as my friend called it, "the most off-the-wall Lucario" I have ever seen.

So, what are your opinions? How do you counter the unpredictable? What are some good strategies when fighting people that make blind choices and ignore all reasoning, telling them to switch out? I find that I struggle greatly with this.

 

[RaikouLover]

You don't. Unpredictable = Gimmick until it becomes very good.. in which case it becomes popular. Then it loses its predictability. On the ladder you will lose to some knucklehead with a gimmick, then you fight him again you won't make the same mistake. Its the cycle of pokemon.

 

[Fatecrashers]

The unpredictable is by its definition uncounterable. If someone is making blind choices and ignoring reasoning then make that to your advantage. Start using the bleedingly obvious moves and you could probably score yourself a KO, as you said they're probably not going to switch out. For example: most people would U-Turn with a Scarfgon until they know it's safe, why not just EQ their Heatran right away?

 

[Athenodoros]

I've had the same poroblem, although it does mean that you can have some fun with gimmicks too (FEAR, Wobbuffet if they don't already know about it etc.) But most of the time it is like Fatecrashers says, it is just easier to go with the most obvious option, because they probably wont predict it.

 

[Shining Kestral]

You can't predict anything 100% of the time, erratic players less so.

Your friend isn't a competitive battler who visits Smogon, so don't expect him to fight like one. A lot of us spend so much time on Smogon and around other competitives, we forget that the possibility of completely different sets exist. Figure out what kind of trainer he is. Scout out his team and his playing style. Even if you can't guess a Pokémon's stats, items, or movesets, you can still use prediction just by studying how your opponent plays. If he's the type that puts Thunder Shock/Thunderbolt/Thunder/Thunder Wave on a Pikachu, you can probably guess what the rest of his team's like. Same if he seems to go for moves with the highest base power possible. If he just sends things out and has them fight until the HP meter hits zero, you can use that to your advantage too. If he always, always goes for the Super Effective attack, then you can make some educated guesses there, too. Just don't get hung up on the idea of making perfect predictions. "If he sent in x, it probably has something that can take on my y" will be more effective than "oh, it's a x, it'll most definitely use z."

My best advice though? Don't worry about it. You will probably get blindsided a few times every match. It's okay, you can recover. Don't expect a battle to go 100% perfect and you'll play much better.

 

[Treadshot A1]

Meh, i've had that happen, playing against lesser players (lesser as in non-competitive battlers), and the sets are just so "WTF?!" sometimes that they can totally destroy you.

For example: I have a Baton Pass team. I rack up +4 Atk and +5 Def. I have a Vaporeon out, whose only attack is Waterfall to abuse the Atk boost. I get to my opponents last pokemon and it's Mewtwo (non competitive also means they don't know what tiers are). It had freaking Power Swap and Guard Swap. Lucky i stalled out his Mewtwo and critted it.

I actually find that if i face someone i know isn't that good, i limit my predictions to only Level-Up moves and really common tutor moves. It helps because most of the time they won't have tutored their Zapdos Heat Wave or their Breloom won't have Substitute. They also rarely have only 1,2,3 attacking moves. Most of the time, they have 4 attacking moves.

Also, if you see a Metagross/Heatran/Garchomp, just use Flamethrower/EQ/Ice Beam. They won't be carrying Occa or Shuca or Yache, guaranteed 9/10 pokemon battlers don't see their worth, they just think, "oh, a berry, just another useless thing. Whatever." If anything, you'll see more Leftovers than berries. You'll also rarely see Choice items, and Life Orb is also rare on non competitve teams. Just my observations, but they've served me well for my battles.

Of course, there's no way to predict them, just remember that it's the win-loss ratio in the long term that counts.

 

[Ghost.]

Yeah you just can't prepare for some shit and you can be weak to some REALLY uncommon things. Just an example....I'm currently on a CRE of 1437 on an alt, and it is unbeaten, so one could say it 'covers alot of threats'. At 1300 I had a battle and the guy has a Toxicroak. At first I think 'no sweat...' then I look at my team and I'm actually insanely weak to SD Ice Punch versions (obviously the set I was facing >.>). I only managed to win by the skin of my teeth as it swept 2/3 of my team.

A similar thing happened on another alt of mine. Trick Room Nastyplot Slowking...beast.

You just don't prepare for this kind of stuff and it can really catch you off guard.

 

[Sy123]

Meh, i've had that happen, playing against lesser players (lesser as in non-competitive battlers), and the sets are just so "WTF?!" sometimes that they can totally destroy you.

For example: I have a Baton Pass team. I rack up +4 Atk and +5 Def. I have a Vaporeon out, whose only attack is Waterfall to abuse the Atk boost. I get to my opponents last pokemon and it's Mewtwo (non competitive also means they don't know what tiers are). It had freaking Power Swap and Guard Swap. Lucky i stalled out his Mewtwo and critted it.

I actually find that if i face someone i know isn't that good, i limit my predictions to only Level-Up moves and really common tutor moves. It helps because most of the time they won't have tutored their Zapdos Heat Wave or their Breloom won't have Substitute. They also rarely have only 1,2,3 attacking moves. Most of the time, they have 4 attacking moves.

Also, if you see a Metagross/Heatran/Garchomp, just use Flamethrower/EQ/Ice Beam. They won't be carrying Occa or Shuca or Yache, guaranteed 9/10 pokemon battlers don't see their worth, they just think, "oh, a berry, just another useless thing. Whatever." If anything, you'll see more Leftovers than berries. You'll also rarely see Choice items, and Life Orb is also rare on non competitve teams. Just my observations, but they've served me well for my battles.

Of course, there's no way to predict them, just remember that it's the win-loss ratio in the long term that counts.

Unpredictability in the OP, doesnt mean. LOLZ WUT AM I GONNA DO casual battling where people dont know what tiers are. And they start attacking you with Super SpecsMachamp

 

[Thund91]

If you're going to be facing an opponent like that you shouldn't be trying to 'counter the unpredictable.' You should be going in with a game plan. "Ok, if I weaken the opponents team with X than Y can sweep." Things like that. Teams like this usually work better than others because they don't try and do/cover everything with one team. They have a plan, and if it works they're most likely guaranteed to win.

 

[Treadshot A1]

Unpredictability in the OP, doesnt mean. LOLZ WUT AM I GONNA DO casual battling where people dont know what tiers are. And they start attacking you with Super SpecsMachamp

Since the OP mentioned that he was playing against friends who aren't on the same level as he is, i feel my post is justified, maybe slightly exaggerated and embellished, but the points still stand. Also, the OP mentions that it is usually a slaughter, 'slaughter' being generally used to describe one side totally destroying the other with little resistance. That leads me to believe that we would be involving 'casual battlers' here.

Anyways, if it doesn't involve casual battling, what other level players are there who would be so unpredictable? The OP mentions a Metagross with Sludge Bomb, i don't know anyone outside of casual battling who uses that. Anyone. Gimmicky players in competitive battling i've seen, i myself run a reasonably gimmicky team, but if it were in competitive battling, it would have become predictable by now, competitive Metagross have existed for a long time.

Also, i'd like to add that against such unpredictable opponents, i find it's much easier just to set up one thing for a sweep like Thund91 said. Like a +4 Lucario or something. Most of the time set up's made very easy.

 

[SalTheThief]

Good advice, nice to see I'm not the only one having trouble with this sort of thing. I was talking about casual battlers earlier, but any other sort of input is nice, too.

 

[mtr]

Regarding unskilled battlers, they're not going to use optimal movesets, but don't worry too much about getting beaten by a newb using gimmicks. Odds are that the player's team is pretty weak to some common threat like DDTar or totally walled by SkarmBliss, since if a player doesn't take advice on movesets, he probably doesn't take advice on teambuilding.

Regarding skilled players using uncommon movesets, it's a risk, but one that can pay off. Still, it might be possible to use common sense to divine what your opponent's sets are. For example, if what you've seen of the opponent's team is horribly weak to stall, why would they use something like Specs Dialga that gets totally walled by Blissey? They're probably using an Adamant Orb Mix.

By the way, analyzing teams and sets is hardest in Ubers due to the versatility of the Pokemon. It's fairly difficult in OU for similar reasons.

 

[Despotar]

When battling a n00b, (no offense n00bs, I mean like a awful battler who think's he's good), I find it's good to use something that can easily setup and sweep the whole team. IE SD Scizor or DD nite. Or if this friend doesn't care about tiers and such you can own him with a team of 6 Wubbuffets.

 

[familyguyman]

If you expect something that will be right a significant proportion of the time (ie: Scizor with Bullet Punch) then you shouldn't bother looking out for the likes of Psychic Lucario. Sure, some things find holes in the metagame and thrive and then become standard but those are high specific niche sets that allow for a certain strategy, like Smeargle's Ingrain Pass.

To go out of your way to deal with the multitude of possible threats, as arbitrary as they may be, means to weaken your team to common threats. You can't prepare for both what is, standard and what is not standard at the same time your choice is to cover the thing you'll see 95% of the time or the dozens of other things you might see in that other 5%.

 

[Pika25]

Let me point an example. Let's say a physical Lanturn. Lanturn has lower base Attack than Special Attack, not to mention little in the way of physical attacks (Spark is meh, Waterfall is ok, no physical Ice/Grass (except Natural Gift with appropriate berry, and you're better off with leftovers anyway) so you're forced to use Return/Double-edge/Flail (combined with double-STAB you get neutral on all except Dialga/Giratina(-o)/Shedinja, all of which but the last are uber) which leaves a move slot for something like Aqua Ring) although it does have the same defenses and Volt Absorb Ability as its special counterpart.

At least you can deal more damage to yourself and the Chansey line with physical 'Turn compared with the much more common special variant...

I, of course, refer directly to my Scramble Challenge (which is in-game, not competitive, but you should get the point) where said Lanturn was MVP.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

I find that using UU pokemon can often be very unpredictable for opponents in OU. Becuae they're rarely seen some players don't know what to expect from them which helps you gain the element of surprise without using pointless gimmicks like Sludge Bomb Metagross.

 

[420]

I think some people ITT are confusing "non-competetive" with "retarded"

 

[Accipender]

The thing about the "Sludge Bomb Metagross" example is that, though it may take down one of your Pokes, it's set is probably terrible, as is the rest of the team. Additionally, they don't EV or IV Breed/RNG Abuse. And even one or two pokes down, if you having trouble with someone using non-STAB Special Metagross and his pals, then your team probably could use some work.

 

[DropTheNuke]

Ok, posting my experiences regarding games with non-competitive players.

1. Item Choices: Very few of my non-competitive friends opt to use Life Orb, Choice Items, and Berries. Instead, they like to use the 20% type boosting items like Mystic Water, or the 10% boost items to one attacking stat, like Muscle Bands.

2. Lack of team Synergy: Oftentimes, I see teams that don't synergize well offensively or defensively. Instead, I see people use three "pairs" of Pokemon, like Gyarados and Electivire, Ninjask and Rhyperior, and T-Tar and Cradilly. These pairs rarely work together as a team.

3. Lack of Entry Hazards: Did you use Stealth Rock in your ingame run of Diamond/Pearl/Platinum? I know that I didn't. Naturally, non-competitive players tend to use moves that they would in-game, so there are less Rocks floating around.

4. No Hidden Power / good IVs: Most non-competitive players that I played don't bother to breed for IVs and Hidden Power, but will breed for nature and EV train. The lack of Hidden Power is pretty big, and I see HP Electric-less Vaporeon, Flash Cannon Magnezone, etc.

Oddly enough, most non-competitive players whom I've played are fully aware of tiers and high-usage/hyped Pokemon (eg Scizor), but aren't aware of viable movesets. I have seen at least 2 Scizors that ran Bullet Punch/Swords Dance/Iron Defense/Roost.

The only trouble I've had with unpredictable movesets come from players who have a decent knowledge of movesets/tiers, but execute strategies like Hail-stalling with Walrein or using high-risk, high-reward strategies like Baton Pass chains.

 

[Toby]

But sludge bomb metagross is perfectly viable? Oh, I see, I forgot about the physical/special split, I'm still living in the world of 386 play :P

 

[mtr]

Sludge Bomb Metagross isn't viable because 1) It isn't viable as a sweeping move since Sludge Bomb gives neither STAB, nor good coverage and 2) Metagross counters are Rotom-H, Skarmory, and Zapdos. Sludge Bomb isn't good against any of them.

 

[ck49]

Most of my friends tend to fall under this catagory. I have only 1 friend who iv breeds and ev trains, but he is a horrible battler (not naming names). The rest dont breed for ivs and are too lazy to ev train a team of 6, much less a box full or more for unpredictability. The absolute best strategy to use against them is Ninjask v3 (but without sunny day and with protect, since they tend not to have t-tars and abomasnows). they always attack so it works most of the time, and BPing +2 +2 to a gross, gyarados, or breloom is absolute murder. If you are facing someone noobish, they may not have things we take for granted, like phazers or stat uppers. there is a reason why those exist. Use that to your advantage.

 

[Treadshot A1]

Frankly Sludge Bomb Metagross would be sort of useless, compared to the other grosses you could run. You'd have to switch out of Rotom-H no matter what you run, Skarmory walls you and Zapdos you'd either explode on or switch. There's no need for Sludge Bomb.

I agree with Coolking, though i tend to say that Ninjask is only good against novice players as a Lead, or after you explode on something and force a blind double switch. You wouldn't believe how many times i've had people switiching to a Fire pokemon thinking they could KO a SashJask.

 

[faerygirl14]

Noobs (non-competitive) don't tend to be as unpredictable as you think, they usually go with the most easily obtainable moves with around 90-ish base power, and probably at least half of them have never heard of STAB nor thought about type coverage unless it hit them in the face. Also, many of them just use their favorite Pokemon and their starters, rarely do they breed even for natures, let alone HP or Egg Moves, and most of them are too lazy to EV train because it doesn't bring benefits. So they're almost guaranteed to have inferior stats and relatively predictable movesets, often either 3 attacks and a recover/stat boost move, or just 4 attacks outright. Plus, you can totally set up on their leads, because their leads are pretty random.

 

[mehbear]

Unpredictable casual teams tend to have almost no/few checks to some things. Sometimes all it needs it one stat-upper to come in and DD a few times in his face and you have a sweep going. I find this happens rather often when playing in OU ladder and facing UU Pokemon teams in the OU ladder. (Usually when i start a test account and play lower down the ladder)