1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

The UU Senate

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by JabbaTheGriffin, Oct 20, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,011
    Current Members: kokoloko (Senate Leader), DestinyUnknown, reachzero, RT., upstart, FlareBlitz, PK Gaming

    This isn't your grandfather's UU Council (hence the much sleeker name)! The Senate attempts to keep community involvement in the tiering system at a maximum, while centralizing the decision process to a select few members that are both most qualified in battling ability and reasoning skills to produce the best UU tier possible. Those chosen for the Senate have to their job very seriously. Consider it the equivalent of being a higher up in C&C with the amount of work/writing you'll have to do.

    Those wishing to apply should PM me and kokoloko with the following (APPLICATIONS CLOSED)

    Do not halfass this. We will be taking the entire application very seriously (especially the third part).

    These three things are very important because:

    1. Senate members will be required to maintain a high ladder rating. This is to make sure that Senate members are constantly up to date in ladder trends.
    2. Senate members will be required to engage in active discussion in the np megathreads. Non-members are encouraged to bring up potential suspects and start debates with Senate members. #genvuu will also turn into a channel where these debates can also take place.
    3. Senate members will each be required to provide in-depth reasoning for their decision (think old school pain in the ass paragraphs)

    As you can see, this is going to be a hellish job. So, please, only apply if you intend on taking your position seriously.

    Notes:
    • Senate members are permanent unless they step down or are replaced for inactivity. They will either be replaced through new applications or grabbed from an applicant from the last time.
    • Suspects won't be determined by a nomination thread, but rather by community opinion in the np threads. If enough people bring up a Pokemon and debate it, a separate thread will be opened and the Senate will then vote on it.
    • A suspect needs only to receive a 4-3 by the Senate vote to be banned.
  2. Brophlosion

    Brophlosion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    215
    This sounds great! I know it will work.
  3. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Official Data Miner

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,033
    I really like this idea.
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    Jabba is the bomb
  5. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    480
    I am in support of this and really pulling for it to work out. About how high on the ladder is required/ expected of senate members?
  6. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    excellent, this should be interesting!
  7. Progeusz

    Progeusz

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    awesome idea
  8. jessifer

    jessifer

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2011
    Messages:
    271
    This sounds interesting. (Will probably never get in.)
  9. Cheapoman

    Cheapoman

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    173
    Sounds promising.
  10. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Professional
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Visual Media Head

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,942
    This sounds like a really good idea, and I really hope I can at least get Jabba to accept my application. Time to ladder like nuts and make some ballin' paragraphs.
  11. Godsend

    Godsend

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    368
    One quick question, you say we would need to keep our rating high, but how high? Top ten? Top five?
  12. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,231
    I don't like this system, it sounds like an even worse version of the already terrible Smogon Council, but I guess it could work.

  13. Godsend

    Godsend

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    368
    I think it is a good idea. It'll stop something from getting banned like Excadrill. Yeah, he was easily considered broken, but was deemed not broken like five(?) consecutive times in suspect tests, until the right pool of voters got together and he was banned. I'm not commenting on his brokenness, but when he is voted not uber that many times, it was really just a matter of time until he got the boot. I like the idea of a small pool of the most well versed making decisions on bans.
  14. idiotfrommars

    idiotfrommars schemes and plots are the same thing
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,131
    Is anything like this planned for OU or will this be strictly UU for the foreseeable future?
  15. Mishra

    Mishra

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Messages:
    195

    Excadril did cause a lot of problems. He needed to go, and blaming the voters doesn't change that.

    I don't think I would ever make the senate. I understand the metagame, but I can't seem to create good teams...=(. That being said, I think it is a great idea and fully support it.

    I would love to see SJcrew, Pocket, Heysup, and a few others (and obviously, Jaba). Good luck to all who apply though.
  16. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,871
    This.

    I'm not the most active in UU, but I really don't think a small group of people making decisions for everyone does anything but make the decisions less reflective of what the community wants. That being said, the fact that the people are chosen based on applications rather than just decisions of the people in charge is a step in the right direction (though having community members decide on who is selected would be even better). I think the biggest problem though is the permanency of the position. No position should be permanent, because it allows people who have the power to ignore the will of the community. No important position should be permanent. People should have to earn the right to get it again by convincing the community that they have the best thing for the game in mind.
  17. Banedon

    Banedon

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    ... five people? @_@

    And yeah, I don't like the system either. Since the players are not chosen in any objective way, there's bound to be some subjectivity, which can alienate potential voters. Not to mention not everyone who's at the top of the ladder are good at English ...
  18. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,213
    yeah I feel this applies here too p.s. yes I'm throwing Heysup under the bus for more arguments..... coughhedidn'tinventtheovercentralizationisn'tawordargumentcough
  19. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Why am I so shit
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,127
    Except for the Senate members being permanent in principle (since when you only have to be voted once for that IRL?????), this idea seem much better than both the old suspect testing and the Smogon Council. I like where this may head us to.
  20. rubixlx0

    rubixlx0

    Joined:
    May 16, 2011
    Messages:
    615
    This is a great idea. They should put this in OU instead of people complaining about weather and randoms who dont even have a ranking nominating things they cant deal with/rant. But with all seriousness, this could lead to good things.
  21. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,871
    As that quote was in response to something I said, I feel I should respond. I already agreed that all ways of banning are subjective (well unless you just banned things over a certain amount of usage, but that would just be stupid). Yet, this subjectivity is derived solely from the fact that people vote on it and people have differing opinions.

    However, when it comes to other parts of the system, a council or "senate" style just compounds the subjectivity exponentially. Not only are the votes themselves subjective, but so is the way that the voters are selected. There is absolutely no objectivity about it, and for something as important as changes to the metagame, I just don't find that acceptable.

    In a system like the suspect voting we have had, however, the subjectivity of the votes is all the subjectivity there is. Everything else about the way the voters are determined is pretty much objective. Anyone who deserves it can vote, and people who are well know, but not necessarily any better than anyone else don't get special treatment.

    That being said, this proposed system is slightly better than other council style systems, as the method of becoming a senate member is slightly more objective, and it is partially based on having and keeping a high ranking, thus making it less likely that people who aren't necessarily the best get in. However, it still has serious flaws.

    In addition to the increased subjectivity of it, there is also the fact that, the smaller the sample size, the less accurate the info (votes) is when compared to the true desires of the population as a whole. With the previous system, anyone who proves themselves worthy can vote. But with a council style system, there are set numbers, which arbitrarily limit how many people vote, and thus reduces the chances that the vote will be what the people want.

    Basically, the whole point is that a council style system is significant less likely to have the results that the community as a whole desires. And, in the end, isn't that the entire point of the suspect process? To make the game what the community wants it to be.

    Also, specifically to this, all that is being said here is that voting doesn't work. The only way this argument could possibly give any support to either side is if you claim that all people who vote in a reqs system vote what they like, and not what is best for the game, but at the same time, all people selected for a council do the opposite. This is completely unproveable, and to me, I find the very notion laughable.

    As long as the system involves people voting at all, then there will be the issue of people having the wrong reasons for their vote. All you are claiming with this point is what I have already said, voting is subjective. And that is why we need an objective way of deciding who can vote so that our decisions have at least some credibility.

    One more thing. We have discussion in the previous system. The only way that this would possibly make it better is if we assume that those people in charge are the most knowledgeable and qualified people out there. Now I am sure all the people in charge are knowledgeable and qualified, but I don't think we can assume they are always going to be the most qualified. I don't think giving any group of people more power than others in the decision making process will help at all. All it will do is skew the decisions from what the populace thinks to what the small group thinks. Now if they do their job there should be no difference. But then if there is no difference, why do we need them at all?
  22. Pocket

    Pocket Bringing the Afro to Space
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,554
    Well, jas, these UU senators will be the ambassadors of the community, by actively engaging in discussions on irc and on the mega thread. They should reflect and voice the community's beliefs. The requirement to write paragraphs to elaborate on their final decision is also the right movement forward.

    Perhaps Jabba can grant access to those applications to the public, so that regular members can vote on some of the candidates? (ie the brain trust selects 3 while the public selects 2?)

    Banedon had brought a pressing issue - five people is a very small group of people. I understand that UU is a much less played tier than OU, but I am positive that there are plenty of talented UU players to fill the position (and would be eager to take on the heavy work load that comes with it). I'd consider bumping the size of the senate to 7 or 9 candidates.

    Getting 3 votes to ban something seems ridiculously precarious imo, and hardly an unanimous vote. I feel like a ban requirement should happen if 4 out of 5, 5 out of 7, 6 out of 9, etc deemed the Pokemon or tactic BL. Again, having a larger senate pool would make this process more flexible.

    I'm excited that the UU tiering process has resumed!

    EDIT: hell, if RU council can get 7 people (albeit they did skip the entire application process), I'm pretty sure UU can gather up at least 9 senators.
  23. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,871
    To be honest, if the public did have a vote on who was selected, then (while It might not be my ideal system), I certainly would think it is a good idea. I just don't like a system where power is given out by a group that is not necessarily representative of the community as a whole.

    Also, as I have said, I certainly agree about increasing the numbers. Personally I don't like having a cap, as I think all people qualified should have a vote, but if for some reason there must be one, 5 is way too low. Especially if all it take to ban is a simple majority.
  24. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,064
    I like this idea in general. The only thing I would question is the permanent appointment of senate members. Maybe replace 1/3rd of the members at the start of every new round? That way there'll be healthy competition among the senate members to improve their participation and/or rating, and also (more importantly) the ability for other members of the community to get involved in the process. The replaced individuals may reapply the round after, and will have preferential appointment opportunities if they still meet the requirements.
  25. Royal Flush

    Royal Flush

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    449
    Hmm 5 members? Seems too low indeed, maybe a second application in the future? But anyway sounds very promising, good shit, Jabba.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)