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Gen 5 The UU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Horsing around
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    Lots o calcs (open)

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 260-307 (80.24 - 94.75%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 239-283 (64.24 - 76.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 191-226 (63.45 - 75.08%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 181-214 (47.5 - 56.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 227-269 (64.67 - 76.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 227-269 (64.67 - 76.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 146-172 (43.71 - 51.49%) -- 66.41% chance to 2HKO after Spikes


    Consider the fact that Crobat never runs max Speed and you can knock another check off that list. Safe switches into Weavile are very limited, basically bulky Water-types (excluding the very popular Slowbro), Arcanine, the increasingly rare Hitmontop, and Bronzong a few times. I'm not arguing that the thing is better than slice bread, it can be handled and revenged just fine. But look at that coverage and power. It tears through teams with moderate support and a few counters. Don't act like you have to weaken half the opponents team, its often just a few key Pokemon. Choice Scarfers are more a problem for it than any defensive Pokemon, and a very predictable Choice move can be exploited for momentum by good players. Not 100% of the time, but its not like bringing in a scarfer spells instant death for Weavile or your team. Again, I feel like your arguments are a valid reason to keep it out of S tier, but you exaggerate the support it needs and underestimate its power: its a solid A rank.
  2. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I hate to be that guy, but...

    Doesn't this make Chandelure S-Rank by pure definition because it has a suspect thread?

    EDIT: I know that in OU Keldeo was deemed a similar case but was not moved. A large difference between Lure and Keldeo is that Keldeo needs Rain Support 50% of the time to be overwhelming, but Chandelure just does work on its own. Sorta irrelavent but worth mentioning.
  3. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Chandelure is not an S Rank pokemon for a few reasons:
    1) Substandard speed and average defenses hinder it's staying power.
    2) Weakness to entry hazards means it can switch 3 times if SR and spikes are on the field.
    3) A few common weaknesses means that it can be force out.
    4) It sucks in OU (although this isn't really a reason).
    It can hit like a nuke however and is definetly a threat.
    Also, how do i show who posted a commented if I quote it.
  4. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Hey there, trying to get more into the UU metagame because the OU metagame is utter trash. This is something that came up a few times in OU's thread (even though I think we got the idea from UU), and what it really should say is "If there are suspects, they will probably/more than likely come from this rank."
  5. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    How come galavantula is B-rank? Isn't it outclassed by zapdos and raikou?
  6. alexwolf

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    Noob question but is Tornadus good enough for A rank, and if yes why? What set is its best atm?
  7. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    I would say the bulk up Acrobatics set. That set has swept teams for me before. Also, Tornadus can setup on weak attackers. And yes it is good enough for A-rank.
  8. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    I dunno. I find Tornadus really underwhelming a lot. I never really get a chance to set up, and the only move it can use to hit Steel-types (Superpower) is completely counterproductive with the boosting move you use (Bulk Up.) I feel like on Offensive teams, there's too much that can either outspeed (Scarf stuff, Raikou, Weavile) or just beat it via type advantage (Zapdos, Rhyperior, etc.). Stall teams probably have a harder time since they don't carry very hard hitters, and it's possible to use Taunt, but past Stall (which is arguably not very viable...) I haven't really seen Tornadus do much, whether for me or against me.
  9. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Well, It ha done wonders to my team and often killed 3-4 members of the opponents team. Scarf variants, though rare can get past weavile and grass knot destroys rhyperior.

    Also, I would like to nominate claydol for C-Rank. It honestly isn't that bad. It is the only rapid spinner resistent to SR and immune to both T-spikes and spike, while having shadow ball to hit ghost. It's typing, while certainly having it's drawbacks, offers an immunity to electric and resistense to fighting, two very important types. Access to SR allow it to set up stealth rocks, while its base 75 speed is good for a wall. It has it's drawbacks, but D-rank is to low.
  10. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    I'll do some more playtesting and come back to see if I can back this up. From what I know, I use Claydol myself and find it okay.

    That said, Escavalier should be B-Rank imo. He's a POWERHOUSE, to put it bluntly. His CB boosted Megahorn hits so damn hard that there is almost nothing that can avoid a legitimate 2HKO from Escavalier, not even Slowbro. The things that wall Escav are pretty shitty Pokemon anyways, so it's not like it's a big deal. Iron Head is nice STAB to boot (Fuck Crobat). Escavalier is one hell of a nuke, tbh. Escavalier also has a neat defensive typing in Bug / Steel and good 70 / 105 / 105 bulk. This somewhat outshines Escavalier's pisspoor Speed stat. This also allows Escavalier to check some dangerous Pokemon such as Roserade, Shaymin, and Weavile. Pursuit is also pretty cool, and Esca can trap lots of shit. Pretty solid Pokemon overall, move it to B-Rank, k thanks.
  11. Kendrick Lamar

    Kendrick Lamar

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    In my opinion Honchkrow should definitely be A rank maybe even S. Moxie+Pursuit+Sucker Punch destroys team. Once in the right situation you can easily sweep the opposing team, surprised it only B-rank.
  12. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Honchkrow's big problem is his unreliability. While Sucker Punch and Moxie are very lethal, Sucker Punch is also insanely easy to play around. Substitute, Setup, or many forms of non damage can all play around Sucker Punch. The fact that Honch is usually relying on Sucker Punch for his primary STAB move makes him vulnerable to either being set up on or getting crippled by status. He is also painfully slow, so he can be outsped, plus that unreliability makes him complete bait for Raikou and Zapdos, two of the top threats in UU. He's also frail as fuck so he is usually OHKO'd by most strong attackers. He must stay in B-Rank because while undeniably a lethal threat in UU, he is also incredibly unreliable, plus frail and slow.

    I still stand by my Escavalier nomination, just saying
  13. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Although Escalavier faces stiff competition with heracross, it seems like a B-Rank pokemon. It's Megahorn is just as powerful as salamence's outrage, which is something to boast. Iron head takes care of most bug resist and pursuit is for those pesky ghost types. Escalavier has a major problem with coverage, having no way to really dent those pesky steels besides the weak rock smash and the unreiable reversal. Escalavier REALLY functions well in trickroom, being able to destroy most of the tier with its "slow" powerful attacks. Escalavier definetly deserves B-rank.
  14. Ezio

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    First of all, I'd like to agree with all mentions of Escavalier moving from C->B. Choice Band 2hkos the majority of the tier and its bulk isn't too shabby.

    Also I'm suggesting that Magneton be dropped from C to D. Although it's a niche mon that serves a cool purpose in removing steels, it's really only good versus Bronzong, which isn't that great anyways. The ridiculous amount of fire and fighting attacks atm make it nearly worthless against everything barring some bulky waters when the opponent lacks steels (a common occurence in the current metagame). Even Registeel can just shrug of TBolts and 3hko with Seismic Toss...

    Finally, although Raikou is an everpresent threat all teams should be aware of, it doesn't really deserve S rank at the moment. Raikou is hard pressed to set up with all the strong attacks, entry hazards, and the common Rhyperior. Snorlax is literally everywhere right now, so that's another minus. Scarf Heracross/Flygon easily wreck and can come in on a predicted CM/Tbolt if Raikou isn't running Substitute.
  15. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]

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    Raikou for A wat a joke.

    Raikou is bar none the best set-up sweeper in the tier, and if you don't have a solid answer, i.e. Rhyperior, Swampert, Snorlax-you will get swept by it. It has the perfect combination of speed, power and bulk to set-up substitutes or Calm Minds on a large number of pokemon, such as Crobat, Zapdos, most bulky waters and defensive roserade iirc and can get past a huge amount of its normal counters by using HP Grass, and the fact that CB lax, the most common set, is pretty damn easy to wear down with entry hazards and repeated tbolts and other special attackers.

    I agree that many teams will have an answer to raikou, but the fact that every team has to run a counter or will simply be swept is a good enough reason for it to be s, as that means it is a huge threat that must be accounted for when teambuilding, like Heracross and Mienshao.
  16. Ezio

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    I completely agree, much like Chandelure it has to be accounted for because of it's HP Grass option, set up, etc. The reason both should be A is BECAUSE the metagame has adapated around them. In fact, Raikou may be very centralizing for all we know, but it isn't an S tier Pokemon atm because of the amount of counters and checks currently experiencing high usage for it.
  17. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Escavalier: Consider it done, it's now B-tier. It's a surprisingly good Pokemon in UU. Bulky, hard hitting(and it just murders most switches in with Megahorn. ) and one of the few great checks to Dragon-types.

    Magneton: Down to D-tier it goes

    ---

    Raikou & Heracross are definitely looking like the odd men out of S-tier.

    Everyone is overly prepared for Heracross. The rise of Crobat & Cofagrigus and ghosts in general doesn't make things easier for Heracross; choiced Heracross sets are at their worst right now. I haven't seen anyone make great use out of Heracross in SPL, though this might be a temporary thing. I'm seriously considering dropping it down to A-tier.

    Raikou is in a similar boat; you'll be hard pressed to find a team that doesn't at least make use out of Snorlax, Swampert, Scarf Flygon or Rhyperior. No matter what HP you use, something is going to check you.

    I might consider rising Cofagrigus to S-tier, because it's the quintessential ghost type. It can spinblock, check some of the most dangerous threats in the tier, and sweep through most teams clean.
  18. Ezio

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    I agree with Raikou obviously. Cofagrigus is a potential s because of its versatility, people looking to avoid a burn might quickly find themselves facing a +2 sweeper in Trick Room. All this doesn't even begin to mention its spinblocking potential and how it counters the most used Pokemon in UU. As far as Heracross, I'd say it's borderline but still S for now because sets other than choiced sets are very surprising and can easily break through teams solely prepared for Scarfcross.
  19. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    I have to disagree with heracross moving to A-rank. It is the most powerful pokemon in the tier, forcing skilled uu players to reserve a teamslot to take care of it. It can get past some of it's counters with EQ, Night slash and stone edge. Just because it is hard countered doesn't make it bad. Crobat, Nidoqueen and cofagrigus can be taken out by Meloetta, which will aide heracross's sweeping potential. Heracross is argueably the best late game cleaner and demolishes unexpecting team.
  20. Reaver12

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    Despite the fact that most UU players are prepared for Heracross it's still definitely S-Rank. It does have ways to get past it's counters in the early and mid-game with prediction, but mainly once it nabs a Moxie boost or two (which we all know is not at all difficult late-game) those checks and counters can be taken down with pure muscle. Great attack, usable speed, and great coverage with two 120 BP STAB moves makes it ridiculously strong. The fact that it's so dominating that literally everyone who plays the tier has to keep Heracross in mind when team building should be evidence enough that it's deserving of S.
  21. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    I disagree with both Raikou and Heracross being moved down. In my eyes, when I think of an S-Rank Pokemon, the words "metagame defining" are what come to mind. These two simply fit these words to a tree. Heracross being the king of UU should explain part of it. He is one of the defining forces of UU, and the metagame is basically "Get a Heracross counter, or you lose." Crobat and Cofagrigus have risen to popularity mostly because of Heracross. He is one of the strongest attackers around, and is basically a Pokemon everyone must prepare for. It is a powerful Pokemon, who doesn't come at much cost to use, and much reward exerted. I use Bisharp+Heracross, and Bisharp takes on Heracross counters rather well. Heracross has his counters, but same could be said about shit like Mienshao or Crobat.

    Raikou is one of the best, if not THE best special sweeper in UU. He is a high level threat who can easily make work out of teams if given the chance. His SubCM set is beyond amazing, and it has the qualities to get boosting with ease. It is undeniably a top threat; the metagame has come to adapt to it with Pokemon such as Rhyperior, Swampert, and Snorlax. Perior is popular because people NEED a way to stop Raikou, he's that good. If the Pokemon has literally defined the metagame, it's an S-Rank Pokemon.

    As for Mr. Cofagrigus, I can argue S-Rank mostly because he's a great and versatile Pokemon. I'm not sure if he defines the meta, but he's S in my eyes mostly because his use is "Low Risk, High Reward". He is the ultimate spinblocker, making him a great fit to keep Blastoise and Claydol from spinning off hazards. Since this is a metagame where Spikes are rather popular, Cofagrigus can easily find himself a spot on teams to keep Blastoise/Claydol from spinning. That's not all. He can counter threats like Heracross and Mienshao with ease, and is pretty good. He has the amazing OTR set, and it can plow through teams relatively easily. This also makes Cofag a good teammate for some legit dangerous threats like Escavalier and Rhyperior. Also, Cofag is capable of being a defensive behemoth. He is a good fit on stall teams, 'cause he walls shit with those high level defenses. Also a great spinblocker. Overall, Cofagrigus is excellent. I'm kinda torn about where he should go, but I'm leaning towards S; I've probably used this thing more than anything simply because he's so damn reliable.

    While I'm at it, I might as well nominate Amoonguss for B-Rank. Amoonguss is actually really damn solid in the current UU metagame. It has a decent typing that allows it to endure hits from shit like Kingdra, Mienshao, and Raikou. It also has access to the rare Spore, so it literally eliminates one opponent from the match. DoublePowder is good, after incapacitating an opponent, it can cripple another with Stun Spore. It can wear down with Giga Drain and literally deter setup with Clear Smog. Regenerator is also very cool, so it can switch out and keep its HP intact. Quite surprisingly, it can run a good offensive set. This can deal good damage while healing off LO damage. He has good overall bulk, and enough utility to move up. Despite its flaws in poor Speed, being manhandled by Darmanitan and Azelf, and rival in Roserade, I fell Amoonguss is still solid enough to warrant B-Rank.
  22. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    I would like to nominate Whimsicott for D-rank. Whimsicott is a pretty big failure in the metagame. Basically every grass type walks over this thing and so do rapid spinners like hitmontop. While it can cripple stuff with encore and stun spore, Whimsicott's poor stats are the bane of it's exsistence. It is not that bulky and it's offensive stats are a joke. Taunt completely shuts whimsicott down, as it has to rely on it's weak u-turn and giga drain to dent the opponent. As a prankster user, saybleye and tornadus are a lot more useful, with great offensive stats and access to will-o-wisp respectively. Whimsicott also faces stiff competition from amoongus because of it's better stats, regenerator, and access to spore. While whimsicott does have a decent support movepool, it's mediocre stats and reliance on those support move often get the best of it.

    Noob question: Why is dusclops so bad?
  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    I think the reason Dusclops is E-Rank is because of a couple of things. While his defenses are wonderful, he has no reliable recovery outside of Pain Split and Rest. The former is easy to play around while the latter makes Dusclops a deadweight. Dusclops also has a laughable 40 HP stat, so he does kinda have more vulnerability to 2HKO's. Dusclops also suffers from the lack of offensive presence, so he's generally too passive to be used on a team. He will usually just sit on his ass all day, and Seismic Toss isn't always stellar enough. Because of this, Dusclops can often be setup fodder for quite a few Pokemon.

    Cofagrigus in the long run is usually the better choice, because he has consistent Leftovers recovery and his bulk is not dependent on Eviolite. Therefore, he will not be completely useless should a Rotom-H come and Trick something on you. He also has the same recovery, but also has a slightly higher HP stat. He also packs offensive presence, and Shadow Ball is pretty darn good and can do decent damage to Chandelure trying to come in on WoW. Also, Mummy is a much more useful ability than Pressure, being able to shut down MoxieCross and RegenShao, plus some other things like Defiant Bisharp and Huge Power Azumarill. Furthermore, Cofagrigus also has access to the wonderful Haze, and combined with modest offensive presence, he is not as much setup fodder as Dusclops.
  24. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Okay thx for explaining it to me. Dusclops recieved a lot of hip in early BW, so I was wondering why it sucks now.
  25. RabidChipmunk

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    So I've been toying around Krookodile for a while and I seriously think he belongs in C-Rank.

    What does Krookodile do? Well ostensibly his niche is that of a Choice Scarf Moxie sweeper, but he faces severe competition with Heracross in this regard, and when you're directly competing with Heracross for a niche, you're going to have a bad time. Krookodile's strongest STAB attack, Earthquake, is an extremely poor move to lock yourself into in UU (something over a dozen Pokemon in UU are outright immune to it -- Pokemon like Zapdos, Rotom, and Crobat. You know, Pokemon you DON'T want to give a free switch-in). His secondary STAB move is Crunch, a move with much better coverage but low base power, meaning that everything on his opponent's team has to be weakened pretty severely if he wants to sweep with it. And don't even think about trying to sweep with Stone Edge.

    Ignoring Krookodile's niche as a Moxie Sweeper and just focusing on him as a revenge killer, he's still rather outclassed. Base 117 attack is modestly impressive, but when he's competing with other Pokemon like Darmanitan, Heracross, and Mienshao for the role of revenge killer, it takes a bit more than "modestly impressive" to leave a lasting impression. His unfortunate base 91 speed means that he also gets outsped by all those other Scarfer's too -- and yeah sure he outspeeds Heracross, but unless he's using Aerial Ace, it's not like he can do much to him.

    Personally, I don't see what niche Krookodile fills in UU. As a revenge killer, he's outclassed by Mienshao and Heracross, and as a Moxie sweeper, he's outclassed by Heracross and even Honchkrow. Krookodile will work if you really want him to, but more often than not you're better off using something else. Krookodile for C-Rank.

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