The UU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by PK Gaming, Oct 1, 2012.

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  1. PTJon7

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    Tornadus is one of the most versatile pokemon in the tier. Its diverse move pool enables it to fill a wide variety of roles on a team, all of which are quite effective. Saying Tornadus is C-Rank material is pretty crazy in my opinion.

    I second Zaon in Piloswine getting placed in C-Tier. It's honestly one of my favorite pokemon in UU, just because it does its job so well. With out a doubt one of the best counters to bost Zapdos and Raikou (especially Sub-CM Raikou). Also is a great asset to Hail teams, being one of the only pokemon in the game immune to Hail and not weak to Fire.

    I honestly think Umbreon should move up to A-Tier. Its one of the best special walls and Toxic stallers in the tier, and is extremely hard to take down if you lack a strong enough physical attacker.
  2. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2 I can't wait to bomb some Dondongos!
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    I would like to nominate mienshao for A-rank. Mienshao is a great pokemon no doubt, but it has the same flaws heracross has: everybody is prepared for it. Cofagrigus, crobat and some nidoqueen can easily wall it and although it has great special attack, it can't hit pokemon like nidoqueen hard enough with hp ice. Another major flaw that it has is that it is really frail. This means that getting it in will be quite hard. Thanks to its horrible coverage, mienshao can easily be walled by poison and ghost types. While mienshao is good, I don't feel that it deserves S-Rank.
  3. Zaon

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    No, Tornadus deserves the A-Rank. It is really versatile. It can run both special, physical and support sets. The BU is great because of the incredible power of the incredible power of STABed Acrobatic and priority in Sub and Bulk Up and is hard to revenge kill. The Rain Dancer is incredibly great if it sets-up Rain Dance and its counters are down. The Tailwind is a really good supporter for wallbreakers like Nidoking. Being wall by common threats and being frail and weak to SR isn't enough to make a threat C-ranked.


    I can't agree with Umbreon being in A-rank. Sure it is one of the best special walls but it is weak to Fighting-types such as Mienshao and Heracross which are both common. And while it is great defensively, offensively, it is a set-up fodder because of its bad offensive stats.

    Yes, it deserves the S-rank. It is the best Scarfer in the metagame. It can revenge kill pretty much anything thanks to its speed and incredible power. Crobat doesn't wall Mienshao because it is weak to SR and Stone Edge. The only poison that can wall Mienshao is Nidoqueen, Nidoking is 2HKOed by HJK while Crobat is 2HKOed by Stone Edge. It deserves the S-rank because it is the best revenge killer in the metagame.
  4. Warb

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    Umbreon is overshadowed by Snorlax, which is also a very dangerous thread offensively aside from being a very sturdy special wall. Umbreon has key niches such as Wish and Baton Pass, but Umbreon doesn't threaten offensive Pokemon with a OHKO or even 2HKO, which forces it to run more defensive moves, which in turn lets the opponent gain momentum.

    Mienshao is so much better than Heracross in so many ways: with 105 base speed, it outspeeds every other common scarfer, its Reckless boosted HJK is so ridiculously powerful that it flat out OHKOs 4HP Flygon without any prior damage, and it also has access to U-Turn making it a fantastic bait for Gligar and Ghosts to gain momentum off of.
    Heracross is bulkier and hits harder after acquiring a Moxie boost, but after a kill it will simply get forced out by any scarfer that is faster than him, while Mienshao will just sit there and spam HJK after its counters are taken care of.
  5. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    I agree with dropping Heracross down to A-Rank because it is fairly slow and is hard walled by things like Cofagrigus and Dusclops.

    I also agree with moving Cofagrigus to S-Rank because it is such a versatile and amazing poke. It is capable of sweeping teams from the get-go with its OTR set, and is capable of walling a significant portion of physical attackers. Its mummy ability aids even more in this thanks to being capable of removing dangerous abilities like Azumarill's Huge Power or Heracross' Moxie/Guts.

    I disagree with dropping Raikou down to A-Rank though because it is a very capable Special Sweeper being bulky, powerful, and fast. It can even run Choice sets, as Specs lets it be a terrifying wallbreaker and Scarf allows it to outspeed every relevant poke in UU.

    Tangrowth should be B-Rank because it is a really good physical wall capable of walling many of the Water types that roam in UU (Swampert, Kingdra etc.). It can also wall some Fightings (Virizion) and Grounds (Rhyperior) and the fact that is powerful is just the icing on the cake. Tangy's speed and weakness to common Fire and Bug Type attacks are a bit annoying, but in the end of the day it has a lot of potential.
  6. SmashBrosBrawl

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    Umbreon should be A-Rank. That thing can pretty much wall anything that lacks fighting moves and pass wishes and heal bell easily making the team much harder to beat. Also Suicune should definitely be S-Rank or at least A-Rank. Once it gets those calm minds going nothing other than phazers will stop it from sweeping teams. Solid bulk and typing + pressure makes it easy to stall the opposition. Pretty much only specs raikou, specs zapdos and shaymin have a chance to beat it after it has setupped once. That sounds pretty S-Rank to me.
  7. PTJon7

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    I agree with SBB, I think Suicune should atleast be A-Rank.

    I wouldn't say Umbreon is overshadowed by Snorlax, they do pretty different things. Umbreon's main use is as a cleric or toxic staller. Snorlax is used more offensively. They both do their jobs very well too.
  8. SBP33

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    I second the statement of snorlax and umbreon serving separate purposes. Umbreon is and probably always will be the go-to cleric in the tier. Snorlax sports just as good special bulk, but can also invest in offense. There isn't much comparison between them, but what I feel gives snorlax an edge is that it's chandelure killer, not just a stopper. With different means of team support, it's hard to put one over the other, but they are both a-rank pokemon in my humble opinion.
  9. cim

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    I disagree with Cofsgrigius moving to S-rank, especially with the diminishing power of Heracross. It's a solid bulky Ghost, but that's it. It's not a barely-counterable terror like Raikou or Mew. I never go into a battle saying "oh shit, he has a Cofagrigius, now I have to play extra carefully." He takes too long to set up to be considered a truly game changing offensive threat, and while he is defensively pretty good he isn't stellar without real recovery. A tier

    Anyone who has played any UU ever can tell you Tornadus isn't A-tier. On paper versatility doesn't mean shit when Zapdos utterly shuts you down, you're SR weak, and you have no recovery.
  10. Kitten Milk

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    Cofagrigus in no way takes too long to set up. It can switch in on a good portion of the tier due to its bulk, and set up a nasty plot while it forces a switch. You can't even call the next turn where it sets up trick room (assuming you're running the Nasty Room set) a turn to set up, as it makes it faster the next turn, effectively canceling the turn it took to set up. Other than Chandelure, nothing can really be brought in to Cofagrigus when it's nasty plotting to force it out, for the pure reason that basically nothing can OHKO it, and most things that can deal decent damage to it get wrecked by a +2 attack from it. Drawing directly from the A Rank definition, an A Rank pokemon "may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time." I've played Cofagrigus in hundreds of UU matches, and there are very few instances where I've switched it out, giving the opponent a free turn, and practically no instances in which it hasn't done its job. Even if Cofagrigus is only able to set up a trick room and dies on the subsequent turn due to something like Raikou 2HKOing it with Thunderbolt, it allows other slow, bulky pokemon like Rhyperior to come in, gaining momentum and threatening to wreak havoc to the opponent's team.

    S Rank is described as Pokemon who can "sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns")", and Cofagrigus fits this description perfectly. S Rank ^,^

    ~Kitten Milk
  11. LonelyNess

    LonelyNess PK FLASH
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    Why in the world isn't Togekiss S-Rank? There is exactly one genuine counter to this thing and that is Sub SpD Zapdos, and even that can be properly flinch haxed to death. It is insanely tanky with 252 HP / 252 Def and I go so far as to say it cannot possibly be one-shot barring switching in to a Specs TBolt from something while SR is on the field (this thing tanks Rhyperior Stone Edges for fucks sake).

    It can sweep a team at a moment's notice with just one attack WHILE providing the rest of the team with a valuable support move in its last slot (either Twave or Heal Bell).

    Not to mention it's incredibly easy TO support... put some double grounds on your team to cover the electrics, slap a TWaver in another team slot, and you're good to go. There are dozens of ways to uniquely support Togekiss that it's insane.

    I can't find many valid reasons -not- to use Togekiss on a team... it just does so many things.
  12. cim

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    No! You can't call that cancelled at all! Not even a little bit! Cofagrigius takes *damage* in the second turn from a direct attack. That is why "1 turn of setup" is so much more powerful than two - in one turn, you're unlikely to take attack damage, in two turns, you are likely.

    Uh so Snorlax totally exists and doesn't really hate unboosted Hidden Power Fighting enough to not stay in and dispense a nice big Choice Banded Crunch. A variety of other powerful attackers, while they definitely can't OHKO it, can survive an unboosted hit and hit back quite hard.

    This statement could apply to literally any Pokemon with Trick Room and is not at all unique to Cofagrigius.

  13. PTJon7

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    I think both Rotom-F and Walrein should move down to C-Tier. Their only use is in hail, which has gradually been getting used less and less. There is literally no reason to use them outside of Hail, which I think is reason enough for the move.
  14. Mazz

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    You greatly underestimate how good hail teams are then. They're one of the few team styles that can almost guarantee free ladder wins. Ever fight a Walrein on a hail team? Its ridiculously hard to beat without using like, Empoleon, and is one of the most annoying Pokemon in the metagame. Rotom-F, albeit slower than most would like, as well as being rather hail reliant, is also another one of those dominant forces. It gets STAB on BoltBeam coverage! It's just too good in theory and practice to be demoted to C-Rank.

    And I'm pretty sure the viability ranking thread is based off of effectiveness, not usage.
  15. Nas

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    Easy to revenge kill? If Togekiss is running Thunder Wave, you can say goodbye to your Zapdos or Raikou, which are pretty much the only two pokemon in the tier capable of stopping a Togekiss sweep. We're talking about a Pokemon that can outstall CB Flygon's Outrage, CB Crobat's Brave Bird, Scarf Darm's Flare Blitz, Victini's V-Create, and basically every other Scarfer in the tier while flinching everything slower to death and providing amazing support to its team. Togekiss fits the definition of S-rank better than any Pokemon currently on that list, to be honest.

    I also think we should bring Mew down to A-rank. It's still a threatening and unpredictable sweeper, but its typing is a huge letdown in this metagame. imo, we shouldn't have Pokemon in S-rank that are difficult to fit on teams. (and Mew is)
  16. Squidsauce

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    Mew is a big toss up to me. I know I haven't used it to its full potential... but maybe cause as you said, it's not easy to use it to its full potential (unlike the other S ranks).
  17. PTJon7

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    Alright I'll give you Walrein, its pretty much the face of Hail Stall. I still think Rotom-F isn't B tier though, the only thing it has going for it is Blizzard spam. Its easily revenge killed by almost any other scarfer in the tier, is SR weak, and has the worst defensive typing in the game. And as I said its completely unviable outside of Hail.
  18. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    I agree with R.T on Moving Mew to A-Rank. Mew's typing is not that great offensively OR defensively, it still has a lot of great things going for it, but it generally isn't EXTREMELY effective at any of those things, which would make it A-Rank in my opinion.
  19. MewTheDestroyer

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    I feel that Weavile should be moved to the S Rank. Weavile is super scary and threatens many of the S Rank UU Mons, such as Snorlax, Mew, Crobat, and Zapdos. After one Swords Dance, and if it is packing Life Orb, it is ready to tear teams apart. The only real checks are Scarfed Mienshao and Darmanitan, and even then, they won't like switching in on +2 Ice Shard due to low bulk.
  20. Ace Emerald

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    Electric/Ice with Levitate is the worst defensive typing in the game? Now I know its no Steel typing, but you have Electric, Ice, and Flying resists, a great Ground immunity, and only weaknesses to Fighting, Fire, and Stealth Rock (what uses Rock moves other than Fighters and Rhyperior?). It trades common weaknesses for some really relevant common resistances and combined with decent bulk, it can take some hits. It trades a SR weakness, which admittedly sucks, for a Spikes immunity that really helps cushion the blow. And I haven't even brought up its strengths, those are just its weaknesses. It has near perfect coverage in 2 STAB moves, both pretty strong STABs. It hits a pretty nice top Speed. It can easily run a Sub Split that eases prediction, lowers the health of Special Walls, while dealing some serious damage with LO Blizzard. Its Scarf set can cripple walls with Trick, gain momentum with Volt Switch (lol Ground types), and clean up with Blizzard late game. I don't know why you're worried about revenge killing concerning a Substitute user and a Pokemon that outspeeds several other relevant revenge killers, but just as a testament to bulk:

    252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 154-183 (63.9 - 75.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    And while it is its best while in Hail, it doesn't strictly need it. I've used it once outside of Hail, and all that happens is the roles of its two STABs switch. Instead of Blizzard being the power move and Thunderbolt being coverage, they just switch roles. Lead with Thunderbolt or Volt Switch, Blizzard when necessary. Not many Volt Switch users in UU have the ability to throw out a STAB move that wrecks Ground-types switching in, and as icing on the cake, if the Pokemon isn't Ground-type they still have a good chance of taking serious damage because Blizzard is strong. It isn't perfect, but not 100% Hail reliant either.
  21. spuds4ever

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    What Ace said pretty much. Rotom-F, while limited to hail, actually works really well and is extremely threatening. I might even go so far as to say that it has no real counter in the tier. Snorlax hates trick and is trolled by pain split and volt switch and bolt beam STAB coverage really covers everything else in the tier. Not to mention Ice being an excellent attacking type in UU and that rotom-f deals with subCM raikou really nicely as well as checking opposing hail well.

    Edit: *continues Empoleon moving up to A rant*
  22. RabidChipmunk

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    Weavile is by no means S-Rank. Yeah, +2 Weavile is scary, but good luck ever getting a Swords Dance under your belt when you're as ridiculously easy to take out as Weavile is. Plus, Weavile's typing forces it to run low BP STAB options, and it has 4MSS with regards to Ice Punch and Ice Shard (I mean really, base 125 Speed and it's forced to run priority as it's primary Ice-STAB, that's kind of sad). Personally I'm still of the opinion that Weavile should be dropped to B-Rank, but others disagreed with me and I'll submit to their judgement. It is by no means S-Rank, though.
  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest all hail Greninja
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    Yeah I'm going to have to agree that Weavile should stay in A-Rank. Ice / Dark has nice coverage, yeah, and Weavile can definitely sweep significant portions of the metagame, no doubt. But Weavile does not have the strongest of attacks and needs LO and/or SD to be a threat. As RabidChipmunk said, Weavile has a really bad case of 4-moveslot-syndrome. Weavile really wants SD, as well as both Ice Shard and Ice Punch, plus both Night Slash and Pursuit. It also needs Low Kick to deal with the steel. Weavile is also really frail and thus struggles getting the boost. I believe it is not S-Rank material; it doesn't define the meta like Raikou and Mienshao do. Thus, Weavile should stay in A-Rank.

    I agree with moving Mew down to A-Rank. Mew is definitely a great Pokemon and a versatile one too. However, here's the thing: It isn't amazing enough at anything it does to warrant S-Rank. 100 stats across the board aren't exactly spectacular, and while Mew is unpredictable, its typing is rather alright at best. NP set seems cool, but tbh I think Azelf does that better because of his better offenses, greater Speed tier, and Fire Blast being more fearsome to things like Bronzong and Registeel. Again, SD is threatening, but its not the most threatening SD sweeper. Mew has a shit ton of tricks up its sleeve, and its versatility and greatness warrant top A-Rank for sure, but it's not exceptional at anything it does, nor does it define the metagame. I'd say Mew for A-Rank.

    Regarding Togekiss, I'm torn. One thing's certain that Togekiss is definitely a bitch to face, and if it gets a T-Wave, it's annoyance time. Togekiss also has great bulk to boot and can take quite some hits, so it can spam T-Wave+Air Slash with ease. NP+Heal Bell Togekiss is a solid stallbreaker, and Stall teams absolutely hate its presence (as with Crobat as well). It is a great Pokemon and also, HustleKiss is possible for surprise factor. Its Speed and SR weakness are a bit noteworthy though. I could see Togekiss as either S or A, leaning a bit towards S-Rank though.

    I feel at this point that Qwilfish should be B-Rank. Qwilfish does really well in the current metagame, he's an excellent Spiker, and he's also a great check to things like Mienshao, Heracross, and Victini (plus Escavalier). Qwilfish does the job of Spiking pretty well, and T-Wave, Taunt, and Haze are all cool support options that can fit certain teams. Raikou and Zapdos demolish it, sure, but that's why you have teammates, right? Even if Qwilfish doesn't have much use outside of its niche, it has a very good niche. Being able to check some dangerous threats in the metagame, setting up Spikes, and pulling off random support options are all good reasons to use Qwilfish in UU. Qwilfish for B-Rank.

    *continues Amoonguss for B rant*
  24. SBP33

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    Continuing on this weavile trend, it is safe to say he is a threat. I love those turnaround sweeps I've gotten with weavile, but it doesn't quite justify its flaws. It's just too damn frail, and ice/dark isn't a great defenisive typing, either. Weak to rock, fire, fighting, and bug, all very common types in UU. It's hard to say weavile is S-rank, as pretty good support is needed for it, but its ability to destroy unprepared or weakened teams definitely earns weavile the a-rank.

    Another mon I'm seeing get attention is togekiss. I've never personally been a big fan of togekiss, well, at least the para-flinch set for more than obvious reasons. However, seeing as togekiss also packs a fair amount of unpredictability, offensive sets play well, too, even the gimmicky mixed set. In essence, togekiss has great potential all around, and definitely threatens a great portion of the meta. However, only middling speed and a tedency not to nail necessary KOs unboosted leads me to think togekiss should be a-rank, and high a-rank at that
  25. PTJon7

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    Alright Ace Emerald, you've got me convinced. I retract my former statement.
    EDIT: I am very behind the move from B to A for Umbreon and Empoleon though.
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