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Gen 5 The UU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    I really want more people to discuss about this nomination.

    As for the top-mid-low Rankings, Snorlax doesn't deserve Top S-rank. Almost every team has a fighting type who can easily KO Snorlax. Kingdra deserves Top S-Rank more because of his great STAB coverage and power after a DD boost. Furthermore, Kingdra's special sets are equally powerful thanks to a STAB draco meteor and Hydro pump. Kingdra is one of the only pokemon in S-Rank who has the ability to go physical and special.
  2. PTJon7

    PTJon7

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    Does one set versus another set warrant something moving up a rank? I'm not saying that it would, just wondering since I would think all of Heracross' sets would be factored into its tiering placement. Choice Band still doesn't discount Heracross getting locked into a move, and depending on what move it can be quite easy to deal with.

    I honestly think Heracross doesn't deserve S-Rank due to its inability to beat any other Choice Scarf user, most teams use scarfers much faster than Heracross (Flygon, Victini, Mienshao, Darmanitan, Sharpedo (w/ Protect & Speed Boost), Rotom-H). Gliglars still shut down Heracross even with a Choice Band, something Meinshao can actually work around thanks to HP Ice.
  3. relaunched

    relaunched

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    I like PT John's rankings pretty well, but they're definitely up for debate. I think Zapdos is probably the hardest to place and Snorlax is the easiest. Zapdos doesn't look top-S rank, but between middle and low there are a few things.:

    Why it could be middle:
    --The most versatile mon in the tier.
    --Offensively, only Mienshao has it beat in off-the-bat strength.
    --Great speed and balanced defenses let it serve as a utility counter and also provide offensive power to the team.

    Why it could be low:
    --Stealth Rock-weak.
    --Can't sweep quite as threateningly as the rest of S-tier, unless it runs Agility, in which case it sacrifices its early-game utility.

    As for Snorlax...

    You're going to have to provide a better justification to rank Snorlax lower than top-S, because "fighting weak" doesn't cut it. All of the other Pokemon in the S tier are easily KO'd by multitudes of moves on the opponent's team, while outside of Escavalier's Swarm-boosted Megahorn, a high-powered physical Fighting move is the only thing that can OHKO even offensive Snorlax 100% of the time-- and that doesn't even cut it if it gets a Curse boost. I think it's hard to argue with Snorlax as the best Pokemon in UU for these reasons:

    --It defensively at least checks roughly half the tier, irrespective of the set it runs.
    --It hits incredibly hard when equipped with a Choice Band.
    --It is the best phazer in the metagame.
    --It's a threatening sweeper on offensive and defensive teams, breaking walls early on in the former and walling early game and working as a comfortable win condition in the latter, even taking the strongest Fighting attacks at +1 Def.

    It's the best defensive poke in the tier and excels at all the roles I mentioned above, and it fits very easily onto teams.
  4. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    Well, here are some more flaws:
    -has an average defense stat
    -Lacks reliable recovery
    -has 4MSS
    -Low speed
    -vulnerable to WOW if it lacks Rest and sleep talk and vulnerable to ghost types if it is the mono attacking set
    Don't get me wrong. Snorlax is one of the biggest threats in the metagame. I just feel that his flaws don't put him in Top S-rank, but rather mid S-rank. Personally, I don't think that the ranks should be split up because it causes some complication and we really don't need to know how much better this pokemon is than that pokemon in the same rank, the only exceptions being Nidoqueen, nidoking, slowking and slowbro .
    As for heracross, the main reason it was dropped is because many people prepare for CScross, but because heracross's other sets are generally more effective (CBcross, SDcross etc), heracross should be S-Rank.
  5. Vileman

    Vileman

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    I would keep snorlax in Top S-rank beacuse:
    -It pretty much checks every special attacker of UU(and there are a lot)
    -Good check to the fire trio with thick fat
    -Can go standard offensive, restalk, curse, and more options, so its not predictable at all.
    -Can trap stuff with Pursuit
    -Has nice coverage moves backed up by a good 110 base attack
    -Weakness to fighitng can be easily covered by nidoqueen/cofagrious/heck even yanmega there are plenty of options
    aaaand pretty much that. Snorlax its a huge threat and pretty much defines the metagame, top-S rank for sure.
  6. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    Just be sure to keep my Accelgor/Scolipede for C-Rank nom as well as Enoch's Crustle for C nom in mind.

    Anyways, I will throw in on my list.

    Top:
    Mienshao and Snorlax

    [​IMG] Mienshao is hands down the best Pokemon in UU at the moment imo, and I'd say it has molded itself into the face of the UU tier. Choice Scarf Mienshao is by far the best revenge killer in the entire tier, as with a +Speed nature, Mienshao outspeeds the entire tier and also hits ridiculously hard with Hi Jump Kick, making it the fastest and strongest Pokemon in the tier. U-turn makes it really hard to play around, and Nidoqueen and Cofagrigus coming in may not always be safe since Mienshao can scout and resort to a proper teammate, such as Weavile or Bisharp in particular (and I guess Lure too). Stone Edge and HP Ice make sure Gligar and Flying-types are never safe and this thing has enough special attack to use special moves to get at its otherwise counters. Mienshao is the absolute best Pokemon in UU right now and is definitely top.

    [​IMG] Snorlax, although it has some flaws, is ultimately an absolutely definitive Pokemon in UU. It is a great check to a lot of special attackers in UU, as previously stated; in fact, with Thick Fat, typing and bulk, it is the only Pokemon who can reliably wall Chandelure, and that is saying something. Snorlax is a potent offensive threat as well, as he has a potent CB set with a good offensive movepool to back it up with. Snorlax also can run Curse, RestTalk, and CB, so you never know what exactly it's up to until it gets going. Snorlax+Cofagrigus is also insanely good. This thing is so easy to use, and I've used this and Mienshao probably more than anything simply because of how reliable it is.

    Mid:

    Kingdra, Raikou, and Togekiss

    [​IMG] Kingdra is soo good right now, with such a solid typing and decent stats to boot. Water+Dragon is great coverage, and it can smash shit with a DD set, or even Specs or Rain Dance, as it can be a powerful force in its own right due to this. It is also decently bulky as well, and considering the rarity of Dragons bar himself, Flygon, and Druddigon, Kingdra is quite a good Pokemon. Kingdra is really versatile and powerful and deserves mid S.

    [​IMG] Raikou is the pinnacle of special sweeping, and if you've used it or faced it (assuming neither player is a scrub, or at least the one using Raikou is competent), it's not hard to see why. Raikou has a great Speed tier, and SubCM is extremely lethal, making use of its power and solid coverage to sweep whole teams. If you don't prepare for this thing, you will get swept. Raikou also has usable Choice sets as well, and can use a decent special movepool to wreck with. Raikou is the pinnacle of special attacking in UU, and is a threat that everyone must prepare for if they don't want to lose and lose badly.

    [​IMG] Togekiss has name in UU as one of the most annoying Pokemon to face in the entire tier. Togekiss can paralyze an opponent and spam Air Slashes, forming the imfamous ParaFlinch. If you face one, you must pray that it doesn't paralyze you in time or you can basically say goodbye to one of your team members. Togekiss is also quite bulky, meaning that it is really hard to KO and thus can spam multiple Thunder Waves. Roost ensures that it is even more annoying, so yeah. Togekiss is also quite versatile and can do multiple roles, as a stallbreaker or even HustleKiss, so yeah. Togekiss is easily a top threat in UU that if you don't prepare for, you're in for a world of pain.

    Low:

    Zapdos and Victini

    [​IMG] I think Victini is good enough to get in here. Victini is stupidly powerful and has great STAB's to work with on both sides of the spectrum, meaning it is really difficult to wall. Victini also has a great offensive movepool, with great moves such as Bolt Strike, Grass Knot, and U-turn. Victini can hit really hard and can be really difficult to counter unless your name is Rhyperior. It can do great offensive roles well and fits into low S pretty well.

    [​IMG] Right now I'm a bit torn on where Zapdos should go, but for now I think Low S is reasonable. Zapdos has a solid typing and good off the bat power to abuse, with T-Bolt, Heat Wave, and HP Ice to boot making it a solid hard hitter. Zapdos can even make for a physical wall thanks to his typing and can wall things like Mienshao and Cobalion to success. Zapdos is powerful and versatile and can fit into S perfectly, albeit a low S.

    Just my thoughts.
  7. Magcargo

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    Since all of you disagree with me, I withdraw my arguement for adding snorlax to Mid S-rank. However, I still think that cross could fit well in low S-Rank because he still is one of UU's biggest threats and can run many sets, but it is predictable.
  8. PTJon7

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    I feel ScraftyIsTheBest put it much better than I did, and I agree with Victini in low S.

    Ehh I could see Heracross fitting in Low S, but if anything its atleast High A.
  9. relaunched

    relaunched

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    I'll take a stab at A-tier rankings. Please discuss -- they certainly aren't perfect. I left Mew untiered, because I don't really know how to play it, plus it's a difficult pokemon to tier as a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none.

    High tier:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG] Crobat - Crobat sits in top-A because of its utility against both defensive and offensive teams. Against offense, it can switch into powerful fighting and grass types, while defensive teams fear its stallbreaking power. U-turn only increases its utility, letting it stay one step ahead of incoming Rhyperior and the like.
    [​IMG] Heracross - Known best as a late game cleaner with a Choice Scarf, Heracross does this job well, as with a Moxie boost or two, even resists won't like the taste of its STAB attacks. Its good defensive typing and decent bulk also let it take a hit or two, which helps sets like Swords Dance and Choice Band break down walls. Unfortunately, its usefulness has become its downfall, as ubiquity slowly led to a metagame full of anti-Heracross measures (Nidoqueen, Cofagrigus, Aerial Ace Scarfers, etc. etc.) , excluding it from S-tier. Despite this, its positive attributes still make it high-A.
    [​IMG] Rhyperior - Thanks to its amazing HP stat, Rhyperior makes a great counter to Electric-types, despite its low Special Defense. Even with little investment in attack and defense, it still walls some physical Pokemon and packs a punch with its attacks. Because it takes hits so well, Rhyperior is a great Stealth Rock setter. But watch out for offensive sets, where Rhyperior uses its defenses to switch in and start destroying the opposition with its insane boosted attack stat.
    [​IMG] Sharpedo - The most reliable late-game cleaner in the tier. A clean sweep with Sharpedo is your reward for a well-played opening and midgame. Though it can't do anything else well, Sharpedo excels at its niche, placing it in top A.
    [​IMG] Slowbro - With great defensive typing and stats, Slowbro easily takes on the many physical Fire and Fighting types of UU, and does it again and again too, thanks to Regenerator. With a movepool full of offensive and defensive goodies, Slowbro can use its offensive coverage well with Choice Specs, or use Slack Off to make it even harder to break. Thunder Wave lets it provide paralysis support for slower teams, while Calm Mind gives balanced teams a win condition and even lets it take a hit from mighty Special Attackers that normally walk all over it.
    [​IMG] Victini - Victini's defining trait is its movepool -- one of the best in the game. Like Mew, it can go special or mixed, but Mew can only wish it had moves like STAB V-Create, STAB Blue Flare, and Bolt Strike. No one UU Pokemon can beat all Victini sets, and its great 100 speed tier makes it hard to threaten offensively. An S-Rank candidate.



    Mid Tier:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG] Chandelure - Even more than Darmanitan, its Mid Tier mate, Chandelure destroys things. Though Flare Blitz from Darm hits harder than Chandelure's Overheat, Chandelure boasts enviable STAB coverage, and can even cripple would-be walls like Snorlax with Trick. Thanks to these traits, no Pokemon is totally comfortable switching in to it. What keeps it out of High-subtier, then? Well, despite Trick, it's still destroyed by the common offensive Snorlax, it has a hard time switching in on things, and has somewhat mediocre Speed. It's definitely competitive for high tier though.
    [​IMG] Cofagrigus - Thanks to its Ghost-typing and great defenses, Cofagrigus serves as a sturdy wall to the many Fighting-types of the tier, working well with an offensive set on bulky offensive teams or a defensive set on balanced teams. A very anti-metagame Pokemon right now, Cofagrigus answers even top threats like Mienshao without a thought, and sets up its own agenda with these free turns.
    [​IMG] Darmanitan - Darmanitan makes his foes go ape with a jaw-droppingly powerful Flare Blitz. If you aren't packing a sturdy resist, you will be hurt by this thing. Coverage moves help it beat even those, and U-Turn gets it out of matchups with capable defenders.
    [​IMG] Flygon - Besides Base 100 Speed, none of Flygon's stats really stand out among the UU tier. But don't let that fool you, as Flygon's excellent offensive typing and valuable set of resistances make it a great UU Choice user. Unlike OU, in UU, Steels are not found on nearly every team, making Outrage-spam a much safer tactic. Also consider that Flygon's competition among Dragons -- Kingdra and Druddigon -- perform very different roles, and you get a pokemon admirably fitting its unique niches.
    [​IMG] Froslass - Like Azelf, Froslass sets up early game hazards, but it gets up the rare Spikes rather than the widely distributed Stealth Rock, and is the only offensive setter of them in the whole UU tier. Between its movepool, typing, speed, and even ability, everything about Froslass is tailor-made for offensive Spikes-stacking. This puts it squarely in mid-tier, though its narrowness doesn't permit it to rise any higher.
    [​IMG] Roserade - Roserade performs well both as a powerful nuke (with great SpA AND Sleep Powder) on offensive teams and as a Spikes setter on defensive teams. While it competes with Shaymin in the former and Qwilfish in the latter, its ability to do both well puts it in Mid-A.




    Low Tier:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG] Azelf - Azelf does best as a lead for offensive teams, capably setting up Stealth Rock and preventing the opponent's lead from doing so. Crobat's the only common pokemon who stops Azelf from doing its job early game, and it has to win a mind game to do so. On the other hand, while this role is valuable, Azelf can't offer defensive capabilities like other Stealth Rock leads. Its other set, Nasty Plot, is quite threatening if it gets a chance to set up, but thanks to Azelf's frailty, this is very hard to find, and it will often get only one kill off anyway, being promptly revenged by the opposing team's Scarfer.
    [​IMG] Slowking - A specially defensive variant of Slowbro, Slowking doesn't do as well as its relative because Water/Psychic defends a lot better against the physical UU threats than the special ones. Shaymin, Roserade, Raikou and Zapdos still eat Slowking alive, while it doesn't stand up to Darmanitan, Victini, and the many Fighting types of UU as well as Slowbro. That being said, it still does alright in Slowbro's role, and has the better movepool for dealing with Kingdra, a ridiculous offensive threat. It can also pose a bigger offensive threat with Nasty Plot, though it might have trouble doing too much with it.
    [​IMG] Shaymin - Shaymin's offensive capabilities are comparable to Roserade's, with better bulk, Speed, and the ridiculous Seed Flare to offset Roserade's higher Special Attack and access to Sleep Powder. Unlike Roserade, though, it can't set up Spikes, putting it a sub-tier below its fellow Grass-type. Like Swampert, this was hard to tier, and could have a place in mid.

    [​IMG] Swampert - Swampert was tough to place. With balanced stats, it serves as a great defensive or offensive tank from either the physical or special side. It provides valuable support to the team in Stealth Rock and phazing. It's not the best wall or tank, so it doesn't fit in top, but it seemed pretty good in mid. However, it is here to balance out the subtiers.
    [​IMG] Venomoth - Venomoth alone enables the Quiver Dance + Baton Pass strategy in UU, with a movepool and ability practically made for it. This strategy is very good in UU, making Venomoth A Rank. For this strategy to really work, though, it needs a team built around it, as otherwise Venomoth isn't being used to its full potential. Though QuiverPass is great, Venomoth's narrowness places it in low A.
    [​IMG] Weavile - Like Azelf, Weavile has a hard time setting up, but is very threatening when it does so, smashing most things at +2. Everything I said about Azelf's Nasty Plot set applies to Weavile as well.


    Sorry if you are tired of reading the word "it" after this.
  10. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    I find them unecessary to be honest.
    The metagames constantly change and each month a pokemon can get slightly better or worse depending on things such as a pokemon dropping from the tier or strategies becoming more popular.

    In the end it's extra work for nothing.
  11. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
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    I agree with just about all the tier rankings for the A-Tier (Dat Crobat), but I'm not totally sure about Slowking. I've never used it in UU so I really have no idea how effective it can be at Slowbro's job, but is it really worth putting it higher up than Slowbro itself, who is actually still pretty good? Even the description for Slowking points out a good chunk of its flaws, most of which are what holds it back from making the UU tier itself. I'm not being close-minded on it as I've seen Slowking in UU a few times, but I'm just genuinely curious is all. Slowbro's still got some maintainable offensive presence in its Choice Specs and Calm Mind sets, neither of which should be underestimated imo.


    ^ Ignore this, I just looked at it again and saw Slowbro was higher. Smh. Though I kinda feel Slowking may potentially be more of a high B-Rank guy, I often overlooked him as a threat on some teams at times.
  12. Professor Xerilia

    Professor Xerilia

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    Right, I'm not the experienced player around, but I am decent in the tier and would like to get some of my opinions across about several things.

    New RU pokemon for UU, Medicham!

    Show Hide
    Now, this may seem odd, but I do have reasons why Medicham should be in D or possible C tier. 4 words. Power and choice scarf. With scarf, this guys hits an reasonable 120 BS speed, although it is still slower than Crobat and Mesprit variants. That overwhelming power shatters any team that hasn't put any counters in place. And with Medicham's High jump kick with pure power, it can OHKO and cause hassle most of the S and A rank with little help. Stealth Rocks, some good prediction and removal of Crobat and Mienshao allows this guy to remain unthreatened in play. Ice Punch can beat Crobat, Flygon and Gligar and a switch, and decent movepool allows any other coverage move viable. Good typing also helps out, with some good offensive prowess.

    However, there are a few things that stop this guy from going to high. Unlike in RU, it is almost utterly dependent on scarf to overcome faster opponents. You could attempt to try out a Band set, but very low defences means that it will get KOed very easily.Also, with that shaky accuracy on HJK, Medicham could find itself to be taking more damage then it would like. You could attempt a fake out set, but it is not as gifted in the art as Mienshao, without the high speed and the U-Turn. Ghost types also propose large problems to this one, as it has little effective ways of dealing with them.

    In short, with people not caring about Medicham, their incompetence will lead them towards the bitter disappointment that is coming from the wrong end of a HJK. Although it does have some fair flaws, a possible D or C rank just to include it as a possibility would be awesome.


    Well, that's it I guess. I will continue with this thread sometime. Thanks!
  13. PTJon7

    PTJon7

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    I agree with most of the placements Relaunched made for A-Rank, but there are a few I disagree with.

    1. Cofagrigus should be in Top A, it can be both an excellent sweeper with Trick Room and Nasty Plot and an excellent wall thanks to Will-o-Wisp, Haze, and its great defensive stats.
    2. Mew should be Top A as well, for its versatility alone. Mew can run tons of viable defensive sets thanks to its huge movepool and good bulk, it can run threatening sweeping sets with Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, and it can even utilize Baton Pass thanks to the plethora of boosting moves it can use.
    3. Froslass is another I think that is Top A-Rank worthy. It is by far the best Spiker in UU, and thanks to its high speed it can almost always guarantee two layers of Spikes on the field. It can also run very useful supporting moves like Taunt, Thunder Wave, and Destiny Bond.



    I'd say Medicham could totally be C-Tier worthy in UU. I've used a Wall Breaker set before that I like a lot:
    This set actually has excellent coverage, and can deal with both Gligars and bulky water types, something no other Fighting type in the tier can do. Expert Belt is useful for the obvious damage boost but it also lets Medicham bluff a Scarf, as that is it's most common set.

    It is generally outclassed by the other faster Fighting types in the tier but it does has certain nices that warrant its place in C-Rank.
  14. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    I definitely agree with PTjon7 about Cofagrigus and Mew being top A rank, Cofagrigus is just really good in the current meta and Mew has so many effective options, that it is initially impossible to counter. Personally I could see Mew being low S, but if it is going to be A rank it should definitely be high A for the nasty plot set alone.

    I personally don't think Froslass is top A worthy, a prepared player can prevent Froslass from getting more than one layer of spikes and still not be destiny bonded (lead with a scarfed mon). I think low A, but I can see why people would think it should be mid A as well.

    A well played Medicham is a scary pokemon to face and for sure fits the C rank description.
  15. Reaver12

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    Leading with a scarfed Pokmeon vs. a Froslass is the best way to get your Scarfer paralyzed. So Froslass will Paralyze the fastest member of your team, and get at least one layer of spikes. Probably two layers, because now that you're slower and the Froslass player knows you're scarfed you'll probably be afraid of Destiny Bond and switch out. Froslass can seriously mess with opponents teams. Definitely High A
  16. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    Standard Froslass doesn't even run thunderwave. It has to run Ice Beam/Shadow ball because of Azelf and Crobat, spikes takes up a slot, destiny bond is one of the main draws, and taunt to prevent opposing set up. Thunderwave could replace taunt, but that makes countering it in other ways easier.

    Another option is to volt turn into a scarfer/faster mon, and most teams already have a volt turner/scarfer anyways. I just don't think Froslass is as hard to play around as it gets credit for. Don't get me wrong Froslass is probably the best spiker in UU, and definitely deserves to be mid-A, but I'm not convinced it deserves to be the same rank as Crobat or Mew, who are far more versatile, and far less easy to prepare for.
  17. Meaty Man

    Meaty Man

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    So this is where the tier scouts are... Well, I have a suggestion for you guys for a tier-up from RU. Here's its face:
    [pimg]656[/pimg]
    This afro bull-buffalo-thing sports an impressive 110 base Attack, as well as good all-around 95 defences. In addition, Sap Sipper grants it a second immunity on the defensive side, while Swords Dance makes him terrifying if you opt outside of Sap Sipper. Speed a problem for you? Bouffalant gets Bulldoze, which is far from situational, as its high PP means it can whittle down faster threats (Mienshao is one terrifying example) as much as it needs to. It has access to quite a lot of high-powered moves, including the ever-popular Earthquake to hit Chandelure and Victini, Superpower to take out Snorlax, and Outrage which hits for brilliant neutral coverage, not to mention its STAB signature move Head Charge, which brings less recoil than other moves of that power. With that said, I personally believe you should give Bouffalant a shot. If it gets to the cut-off (which is 4% apparently?) I know it can survive.
  18. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

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    First of all, no one actually decides tiering here. Tiers are determined solely on a Pokemon's individual usage. If Bouffalant were to receive a certain amount of usage in UU (~4%), he would rise up a tier. A Pokemon's actual viability has nothing to do with it, hence why many Pokemon are in tiers not suited to them (Donphan in OU, Metang during it's short stint in RU).

    Secondly, don't use Outrage on Bouffalant. It can achieve neutral coverage with it's other moves (Head Charge / Earthquake / Stone Edge / Superpower, Megahorn, or Substitute ), and Dragon-type moves are rarely useful on anything other than Dragon-types. Swords Dance is also a bad idea, since Bouffalant is way too slow to try and sweep anything.

    With all this said, if you would like to propose a rank that you think Bouffalant is suitable for (ask yourself, is he a top-tier threat, or a niche Pokemon?), feel free to do so.
  19. PTJon7

    PTJon7

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    Firstly, welcome to the forums!

    When making a suggestion for a pokemon to be added to the rankings, its always a good idea to be sure and propose what place it deserves in the tier (S, A, B, etc). To be honest I don't think its necessary to constantly add lower tier pokemon to the UU rankings, mostly since they all just end up residing in C-Tier and making it cluttered.
  20. Xuna

    Xuna

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    Okay I am going to start by saying that stall team are becoming a lot more prevalent lately.

    a proof of it is actually the number of stall team that have been created and posted and the forum and that some like http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3482753 are doing incredibly well.

    This is due in my opinion to Umbreon being incredibly broken right now.

    I think Umbreon should be moved to a tier or to even s tier.

    She walls every Spa Pokemon of the tier and in combination with a ghost have simply no weakness. fool play hits like a truck on many of the switch in to kill Umbreon and she can latter on simply heal a member of his team to full life. she is likely not affected by taunt because most of the taunt user dont have the sheer power to kill Umbreon in 3 turn. Aka tornadus, sableye.

    The only weakness I can actually see to umbreon right now are either stall breaker Crobat or Honchkrow and even then. The obvious high attack dmg of both pokemon make them a prey of fool play if played correctly.

    Now on the stall part, she cures every possible effect on your team and she can literally heal a Pokemon from 10 to 100 in one turn making stalling against Umbreon a pain. All you have to do is wait for the toxic spike and the burn/stealth rock to do there job.

    Personally, I Like to play bulky/offense team like the one of Anna molly and stall team like weather hail and I have found Umbreon to be the biggest pain ever. I honestly could deal with all of the member of the team if it wasn't simply because of her.
  21. Kyuzeth

    Kyuzeth

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    Who the heck is 'Anna Molly'? Nobody knows who you mean, really.

    By the way, you're forgetting a few things: Umbreon is usually Tauntbait to stuff like Crobat, Sableye and Tornadus, but has Foul Play to deal with physical threats. Mienshao can also quickly set up on Umbreon and dispose of it with HJK.

    Oh, you say Tornadus cannot 3HKO Umbreon? Feast your eyes on these calcs:
    4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 234-276 (59.39 - 70.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 234-276 (59.39 - 70.05%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes


    Sure, Sableye has little power, but Prankster allows it to be a perfectly good Umbreon counter since Foul Play does jackshit to it, alongside the fact that Umbreon is complete Tauntbait and Sableye basically forces it to switch, since it can stall Umbreon out with Toxic/Will-O-Wisp and Recover/Protect.

    Umbreon is a really susceptible Pokémon and not worth A-tier, let alone S-tier.
  22. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    Anna Molly is a very succesful team made by kokoloko and kokoloko is at the top of the UU ladder on PS using this team (under the alt Anna Molly). If that was just you mocking him because to you it seems like he said he battles with an actual person, then I guess ignore this post. But yeah, Anna Molly is a team.
  23. ryanr554

    ryanr554

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    The fact you have to try and play around should tell you how good it is. After using Frosslass I can honestly say it definitely is top A tier. It consistently gets up 2 layers of spikes and gets a kill with destiny bond a lot of the time.

    The fear of destiny bond makes people scared to directly attack as well allowing Froslass to get up spikes easier. This is not to mention it has taunt which works excellently with destiny bond and doesn't let people status you to death or get up any of their own hazards.
  24. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    I second Umbreon moving up to A-Rank, but S Rank is really stretching it. Xuna is over exaggerating a whole lot about Umbreon's effectiveness in UU however. It can be complete set up fodder (especially by Scrafty) and can still be 2HKOd by powerful enough special attacks, let alone physical. It can however stall excellently, heal its other team mates with Wish, and take special hits very well.


    I'm gonna bring up Scrafty for A-Rank though I feel like this has been discussed before.

    Sub-Bulk Up Scrafty sets up ridiculously easily on pretty much any wall in the tier lacking a phazing move or Taunt. Thanks to Shed Skin it can (the majority of the time) not have to worry about getting statuses because they have a 30% to get healed every turn. Full HP and SDef on Scrafty also guarentee that any non super effective attack coming from a wall will not break the sub, which lets Scrafty immediately start setting up.

    Bulk Up is only one of Scrafty's many sets however. Dragon Dance can also be a huge threat, and thanks to Moxie it can further boost it's Atk after getting a kill. Scrafty's STABs give it near perfect coverage (only Heracross resists both) and it's access to other moves such as Ice Punch and Zen Headbutt round out its coverage moves very well.
  25. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,255
    The problem with Scrafty is that he isn't bulky enough due to the numerous Fighting-types and insane hard hitters (Victini and Darmanitan) in the tier and isn't fast enough to outspeed base 115s and virtually any Scarfer after a Dragon Dance because base 58 speed is pretty shit :P

    That said, Scrafty is one of the harder switch-ins in the tier due to his ability to boost and excellent coverage. His bulk and abilities make him a nightmare for defensive teams to handle too. B-Rank is where he stays due to the aforementioned flaws though.

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