1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Please refer to this thread for the current Smogon Tier Lists.
  3. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Gen 5 The UU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,487
    To be honest, I think Tornadus should be B-Rank. I was using Tornadus the other day in UU and I was surprisingly disappointed in it. I was using the Acrobatics + Bulk Up set, and it really had some problems. The first move was pretty powerful, but after that, Tornadus just really didn't function as well. Flying STAB is invaluable in the metagame, but that doesn't help Torndus's main problems. First and foremost, Bulk Up is a pretty bad set up move when you are as frail as Tornadus - it wants something like Swords Dance. Its physical movepool is absolutely horrid too. Brick Break is not going to get past its resists, especially because it doesn't have a Life Orb attached.

    A Rain Dance set? I don't know, but it needs a turn of set-up to fire off accurate moves.
  2. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    Wait; you're using Brick Break? That's the problem, then. You're not using Superpower/Heat Wave to get past those Steels. That's what you should be doing in the first place.

    That said, I think Tornadus-I should be firmly A-Rank, if not S Rank. I, too, use Acronadus. Other than those demmed Ambipom, usually Tornadus-I just oneshots a majority of the tier without any effort (spoiler; it also oneshots Ambipom, but it requires a switch-in - 1v1ing an Ambipom takes considerable low damage rolls and it missing Double Hit), given how a lot of things are either really frail and/or vulnerable to Acrobatics/Superpower in general. I recently replaced Arcanine with Tornadus-I in one of my teams and it is carrying my team 75% of the time.

    Also, Rain Dance being guaranteed doesn't have to be used by just Tornadus-I. Kingdra can make good use of the Rain set up by Tornadus-I to endlessly sweep the opponent's team, as can any other Swift Swimmer.
  3. Doron

    Doron

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Gligar is A rank for sure. Yes, it's very vulnerable to special attackers and yes, it's setup bait for many threats, but it has unbelievably high physical bulk, a brilliant defensive typing to wall physical attackers, reliable recovery, immunity to toxic and a scouting move. It can deal decent damage with EQ or toxic stall, or both at the same time. It not only reliably sets up rocks, it is also the best catch-all physical wall in UU. It's not S rank material because of its' vulnerability to Blastoise and Roserade, but it's far better than a B rank pokemon.
  4. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    I'm going to argue that on a few points;

    • Gligar is effectively 2HKO'd by anything with STAB Special attack moves and 85+ base SpA, which accounts for over half the tier. Also, with some residual damage and player error, can be 2HKO'd by even lower (and things with lower SpA tend not to use it, but when they do) can overcome Gligar.
    • A wide variety of physical attackers beat Gligar. I'm looking at Sharpedo, Mienshao, Azumarill, Darmanitan, Kingdra, Machamp, Scrafty, Swampert, Tornadus, Victini, and Weavile, which accounts for a sizeable chunk of the physical attackers found in UU. Gligar effectively walls Heracross and a select few other physical 'mons (can it even beat/wall Crobat?). Last time I checked, that didn't mean it was the end-all-be-all physical wall, whose title belongs to Cofagrigus.
    • Every taunter in the tier beats it, effectively rendering its ability to set up and heal useless, which is pretty piss-poor for a defensive wall.

    With that being said, I truly believe that Gligar is mid-to-high B Rank, as its held back by quite a bit of its flaws and isn't exactly that great. It can't provide any offensive pressure at all.
  5. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,922
    Cofagrigus is good for two things in this metagame and those are checking Fighting-types and using Trick Room. It is not a good defensive spinblocker because it's slower than Hitmontop and Blastoise and cannot steal momentum from them (after they get rid of hazards, they're just going to go to Roserade and set up on you), it is not a good physical wall because it's neutral to every important physical attack in the tier besides Close Combat and Megahorn, it's grounded and weakened by hazards, and has really bad recovery.

    There's good reason it wasn't hitting anywhere close to UU usage before Trick Room NP or Moxie Heracross. I'm not even sure how long Trick Room + NP will last, but overall physical walling is not its niche. Gligar, by virtue of recovery alone, is absolutely the better physical wall. However, the critique of it having no offensive presence and being shut down rather easily are correct.
  6. Chimera404

    Chimera404

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Messages:
    70
    I'm going to contribute my two cents to this discussion about Cofagrigus, Roserade, Tornadus and Virizion.

    As a player who's never successfully used Cofagrigus in a ranked match, I cannot say too much about its viability... only that when it does come up on the opponent team it rarely if ever gets to set up, because Togekiss the stallbreaker just doesn't let it have a free two turns, and Cofagrigus just can't beat it even under TR. It also can't beat Meloetta, given that it's played right, and honestly it requires a decent amount of team support to function - for example, you can't run it on fast HO simply because other members of the team won't appreciate Cofag dying while TR is up. A 2-turn set up requirement is also pretty bad because in tougher matches you probably won't find time to set up both TR and NP. Because of these reasons, I'd argue pretty strongly that Cofagrigus is an 'A' tier Pokemon. It's not S-tier simply because it's not a one-man-army like, say, Raikou is.

    Roserade, on the other hand, defined the UU metagame for the entirety of BW1 and it's been a great attacker and supporter in BW2. It doesn't need team support - it IS the team support and it grabs so many free turns, either from scaring off bulky water and whatnot or spamming sleep powder whenever it comes in. TSpikes and Spikes are really useful, not to mention immunities to Toxic and Leech Seed. I think it's honestly a more deadly and versatile threat than Cofagrigus, so I'd nominate it to S-tier.

    I also find Tornadus underrated, but A rank is fine for it, though it shouldn't ever drop below that.

    Virizion, on the other hand, always struck me as the odd one out of the four musketeers, possessing a low attack and a sky-high special defense mitigated by that horrendous 4X weakness to flying. It doesn't run CM well, due to it being outsped by stuff like Heracross and Scarf Darmanitan and being forced to use Focus Miss as STAB; it also sucks at SD because of that inferior base attack, which should put Cobalion above Virizion because of its superior SD and CM sets. Cobalion also has much better defensive typing and has more utility as a tank. Thus, I'd say put Virizion into B-tier and Cobalion into Virizion's place.
  7. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,412
    so you know how koko hyped crobat at the beginning of the best pokemon in the tier thread and i was slightly skeptical? to no one's surprise, he's totally right. crobat single-handedly enables uu heavy offense. just slap that motherfucker onto your team and you have insurance against most of the metagame's biggest threats. with super fang, there is no such thing as a safe switch in to crobat. you come in on their early game heracross, predict the switch, rip 50% off of their blastoise or rotom or whatever, then you can U-turn or switch to a real counter and keep momentum. what an amazing pokemon.

    cobalion is pretty cool right where he is in b tier. i think he's a lot more useful defensively than people give him credit - one of the rare Steel types in the tier but unlike bronzong he has a useful offensive presence, awesome Speed, and a switch attack in Volt Switch that makes slowbro hurt a little.

    i'm not contesting the rank so much as i'm curious - what's holding slowbro back from S rank? I guess the meta is kind of overprepared for him

    (also i'd never argue gligar is a rank - if heracross didn't exist it wouldn't even be up for discussion. he has way too specific of a role to be that useful and can't hit back)
  8. jamashawalker

    jamashawalker

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    600
    You do realize that you provided tons of inaccurate facts. Virizion has the same attack as cobalion. Virizion and cobslion both fear heracross and darm scarfed. Virizion runs a better CM thanks to giga drain for better coverage and for recovery. And while idk how this metagame is shaping up, i would argue virizion is the better SD sweeper thanks to typing and a better secondary STAB move while allows virizion to get past bulky waters without the use of close combat. Thanks to typing alone virizion fills so many gaps on teams. Lol idk where you got these facts from.

    But the way the metagame is shaping around crobat and fighters. It would make sense if virizion is having a harder time then it should be
  9. Chimera404

    Chimera404

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Messages:
    70
    Whoops, I always seem to get confused between the two stats. I still maintain that Cobalion does a better CM set simply because it gets to boost its inferior Sp.Def, allowing it to tank a larger variety of attacks. Steel+Fighting has never been bad coverage, although missing out on Slowbro does make Virizion seem like a better choice... Cobalion gets Fighting+Steel+Electric iirc on the CM set, so I find it never has problems setting up and whacking stuff. Immunity to toxic is awesome too.

    Eh, I don't really think one is significantly better than the other, so just drop Virizion into B-rank. With the meta as it is, it needs a lot of team support to shine.

    But in any case, I see only one inaccurate fact in my post, and that is claiming that Virizion has a lower base Attack stat.
    1. It's SpDef is really sky-high, which is useful but not that great with five weaknesses, most prominent being Fire (Darmanitan, Chandelure, Victini, the latter two of which completely troll Virizion AND Cobalion), Psychic (Azelf and co.) and Flying (Togekiss) It runs a nice set due to lack of those types in OU, but in UU it faces a plethora of powerhouses. It's true that Cobalion fears much the same, but I didn't argue that it didn't (screw vague grammatical structures, you get my point).

    2. 4X weak to flying. No contradiction there

    3. Cobalion has much better defensive typing. Are we honestly going to argue that having Steel-Fighting defensive is worse than Grass-Fighting? Please, don't.

    4. Cobalion has more utility as tank: I argue this point because it tanks physical hits better while having CM if you want to boost weaker SpDef stat for a more balanced tank. Also, typing is crucial for this point, and as we've established, Cobalion's typing is so much better defensively.

    That's where my facts are from.
  10. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    319
    Grass/Fighting is actually a pretty good defensive typing, keep in mind that grass resists Water, Electric and Ground, pretty common types in this meta. Also, not being weak against Fighting types is important right now. So yes, I think a point can be made about Coballion not having a substantially better defensive typing than Virizion all things considered. But again, this meta isn't doing them any favors.
  11. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    383
    How is Umbreon Rank D and not C? It is one of the best Clerics/Wish supporters in the tier. And if "Taunt bait" is in your mind, both Payback and Foul Play can screw around with certain opponents (Mew for sure), and is a staple on balanced and stall teams. Seriously, Umbreon can be an annoying pokemon to counter if you have no Heracross or Cobalion.
  12. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,412
    You hit on a lot of it there. It's got Wish and Heal Bell which is cool, but it's got Gligar Syndrome - it can't hit back at all. All it has are some pretty weak STAB attacks, which of course threaten Pokemon that are weak to them, but it doesn't do much to scare away a lot of the special attackers it walls. It could rely on Toxic, but then you've run into 4MS - can't do Wish / Protect / Heal Bell / Attack / Toxic.

    Any Dark resist or a beefy neutral can take it on, especially if it's immune to Toxic or otherwise doesn't care.
  13. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,409
    Please read, Umbreon is C rank so I don't know what are you talking about, lol.

    And well, Umbreon really isn't a good pokemon in the current metagame, and it isn't by any means a staple on stall teams, and even less so on balanced teams, because it's worse than Snorlax most of the time, as Snorlax is bulkier, has a better typing (and ability), and most importantly, it can also hit stuff. Being able to hit things hard,and not be a huge set up bait is what makes Snorlax so good in UU and a staple on any team, be it offense, balanced or stall, Snorlax is always a great pokemon. Furthermore, Snorlax can actually stop Chandelure, something Umbreon can't even dream of.

    However, the main flaw that must be outlined about Umbreon is how weak it is. Some people say this is not important, but it just means that Umbreon gives a free switch in to a lot of dangerous pokemon such as Darmanitan, Virizion, Kingdra, CB Flygon, Heracross... and the list goes on. All the pokemon I listed are very difficult to stop, and can rip holes on balanced and stall teams with ease with just one free turn, which is what Umbreon is giving them, while Snorlax (yet again), can hit all those pokemon for high damage, even without offensive investment. And Umbreon's inability at doing damage doesn't stop here, as it often loses to Raikou (a pokemon it should be checking) because it isn't able to even 3HKO it:

    0 Atk Umbreon Payback (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 96-114 (29.81 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    While Raikou (providing it CMs as Umbreon switches in and the first turn Umbreon hits him)
    +2 252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 171-202 (43.4 - 51.26%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  14. FrostFireBolt

    FrostFireBolt

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    I would argue that Umbreon does have a couple of advantages over Snorlax. Wish and Protect are much more reliable as a means of recovery than RestTalk and also lets it heal its teammates. Heal Bell is always handy for removing status from itself and team too. Your argument about using Payback for damage is also pretty dumb because nobody uses Payback now that Foul Play is available. This makes Pokemon you listed such as Darmanitan and Flygon susceptible to taking a lot of damage on the switch.

    0Atk Umbreon (Neutral) Foul Play vs 4HP/0Def Darmanitan (Neutral): 52% - 61% (184 - 217 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    (Calc was made using Life orb Adamant Max attack Darm)

    With Stealth Rock up Darmanitan will take a minimum of 77% meaning it will die the next time it switches in or be easily revenged. Umbreon also pairs up quite well with Gligar giving you a fairly solid Defensive core.

    Also:

    0Atk Umbreon (Neutral) Foul Play vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Levitate Flygon (Neutral): 53% - 63% (162 - 192 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Flygon calc for the sake of inclusion (assuming Foul Play factors in the CB boost to attack which I wasn't exactly sure of).

    So Umbreon is in fact a lot better than you give him credit for.
  15. hilarious

    hilarious

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    545
    ^^seconding most of this it took me like a hundred dead Kingdras (mono attacking DDer, try it out!!!) to realize finally Foul Play Umbreon was the new standard (on PO not PS) and frankly it is almost always better. You want to hit it from the physical side where it is less bulky (but still bulky) so you get a physical attacker only to get slapped in the face with Foul Play. I am pretty sure on PS Payback is fairly standard still though lol!

    Also if I am correct, standard Umbreon is basically 100% as bulky as standard Snorlax on the special side while being more defensive on the physical side. Wish and Heal Bell give Umbreon arguably more utility than Whirlwind but it really depends on what your team needs, and in the case of stall its not a bad idea to use both Snorlax and Umbreon!!! Losing to raikou is REALLY bad though but unless Raikou is Leftovers CM you stand a good chance against it.
  16. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    539
    The problem is, if Umbreon just switched into something it probably ate a crapton of damage. You can't always afford to throw out Foul Play willy-nilly, and once those threats are in they're going to rip big holes. Also, Foul Play is really weak against special attackers - yeah, the ones you're supposed to be countering. If SubCM Raikou has both a 0 Atk IV and a bulky spread (I can't remember the exact one, but it's designed so Flygon U-turn can't break the sub) Foul Play has a good chance of failing to break the substitute, which means Raikou can set up all over you.

    I've always considered Umbreon to be a pretty mediocre Pokemon. Never had trouble facing it because it's so easy to switch so many threatening Pokemon into it almost for free. It also loses to several special attackers, like Chandelure, who easily 2HKOs with Modest LO Fire Blast on the switch. NP Mew +2 Aura Sphere smashes through it. If you don't have Toxic, anything bulky doesn't care about it, and if you do you're missing out on Heal Bell, one of the key reason to use Umbreon, and anything Bulky with sub or that's immune to Toxic doesn't care.

    Dark is just such mediocre typing for a special wall outside of being immune to Psyshock... I would much rather use a lax and actually be a threat. But maybe I'm missing something. Who knows.
  17. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest lovin'
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,383
    Umbreon really competes with Porygon2 for a decent wall. It's still decent at walling though. C-Rank does the justice for Umbreon.

    And I'm not sure whether it should be C-Rank or D-Rank for this one, but Machamp should be moved down. There is simply no reason to use him anymore. He is overshadowed by just about every Fighting-type in the tier. No Guard DynamicPunch is a rather silly gimmick these days since everyone sees it coming. And why use 100 BP STAB? When I could be using 130 BP STAB from Scrafty and Mienshao, or even 120 BP STAB from Cobalion and Heracross. Machamp also suffers from poor Speed, and also he is beaten by Azelf and Crobat with relative ease (Which, the other Fighting-types are, but at least they can go scarfed and smash them. Machamp can't). Machamp may be powerful, but he's outclassed by other Fighting-types and is also slow. Machamp simply isn't that good in this metagame and should probably be C-Rank or D-Rank.
  18. FrostFireBolt

    FrostFireBolt

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    Dynamicpunch is a lot more threatening than you say. Even if it is an obvious move, it still doesn't put you in a bad position as between Substitute + Dynamicpunch you can put your opponent under a lot of pressure. If they switch out, Machamp has a free substitute while they don't really want to stay in as they're going to take a STAB Dynamicpunch from a base 130 Atk stat with confusion added on. Thanks to substitute Machamp can also work around its counters such as Crobat who cannot take a Stone Edge (which also benefits from No Guard). While there are definitely better Fighting types, I'd say Machamp is still a pretty solid B-tier Poke.
  19. Doron

    Doron

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Machamp gives me trouble like nothing else. It can very easily grab the momentum of the match and often takes down two, or even three, of my pokemon in the process. If the metagame didn't have so many Psychic-types and wasn't otherwise geared towards dealing with Fighting-types Machamp would be a high A-rank due to its surprisingly good bulk (don't forget that they invest heavily in HP, something Mienshao or Heracross cannot do effectively) and ability to dish out both hax and very high damage.

    As it is, it has competition from Heracross and co. and is competing in a metagame that is as hostile to Fighting-types as the OU metagame is to Dragons. Therefore, Machamp is a B-Rank pokemon.
  20. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,929
    what is weavile doing in B rank? I don't really feel like doing a huge post explaining weavile since its pretty self-explanatory... hit hard, hit SE. Instead im just gonna take the stuff from S/A rank and bold the stuff that weavile does well against:

    Cofagrigus
    Crobat - ice punch the ones that only aim to outpace 115s, ice shard the faster ones
    Heracross
    Kingdra
    Mew
    Raikou
    Zapdos

    A rank
    Azelf
    Chandelure
    Darmanitan
    Flygon
    Froslass
    Meloetta
    Mienshao - tbh i wouldn't be surprised if ice punch KOs
    Roserade
    Sharpedo
    Shaymin
    Slowbro
    Snorlax
    Togekiss
    Tornadus
    Victini
    Virizion


    B rank is a joke, weavile loves this fighting-centric metagame since it destroys all the psychics, fliers and ghosts. A-rank for sure

    agree with machamp staying in B

    Keep in mind that Weavile was always borderline A/B, but I guess there's no reason to keep it from A-tier. Let's move it up-up-up.

    ========
    mini-update
    ========

    Weavile up from B-tier ==> A-tier
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2013
  21. Reaver12

    Reaver12

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    240
    Just re-posting this because I'm too lazy to re-type an argument and no one else has made an argument for or against Snorlax.
  22. Doron

    Doron

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Snorlax isn't S-rank material. Normal isn't a good enough defensive typing. He's hideously weak to Fighting-types and there are even some special attackers that don't mind him. He relies on Rest for recovery which gives your opponent free turns and he's setup fodder for any physically defensive hazard setter and I'd bet that he's setup fodder for Cofagrigus as well. I'd even be willing to bet that goddamned Dusclops could beat Sp. defensive Snorlax with its CurseSplit set.

    For shame Snorlax, for shame.

    P.S. Snorlax should be A rank because he's a pretty swell guy.
  23. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,412
    Snorlax is definitely S-Rank. Move past BS / WW / ResTalk for a minute and look at what else it can do. Choice Band makes it instantly Heracross's best friend. A powerful Pursuit with enough bulk to really abuse it is fantastic in this meta. If you come in on Chandelure and they didn't Substitute or WoW, they lose the Chandelure. It's such a potent assist move on a set rounded out by good power from Return and Earthquake that makes Snorlax a great offensive tank.

    And honestly, the defensive sets shut down every special attacker so well. I just wish more people realized Snorlax hits back like a train and at least put a second attack on him. Maybe a Curse Chesto Rest could work okay if you burn Moxie Heracross early. Once you get past the "default set", he's got so much potential I would argue he's S-rank in spite of Fighters.
  24. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    417
    Agreeing that Snorlax should be S-rank. I know that his typing isn't doing him any favors, but 160/110 Special Defense is ridiculous, and thick Fat basically grants him resistances to Fire and Ice. Even without a cool set of resistances, Snorlax still walls some of the best special attackers in the game, like Raikou, Zapdos, Chandelure, and Yanmega. Whirlwind is great for racking up hazard damage, but everybody already knows that Snorlax does this well. Doron claims that Snorlax is a setup fodder if it uses Rest, but it's a setup fodder for them even without rest, because Body Slam when not invested into heavily won't hit a physically defensive Pokemon terribly hard.

    And as cim already touched on, why does everybody overlook its stellar base 110 Attack? Slap a CB on Snorlax, and all of a sudden it can break through some very physicaly defensive Pokemon, like Bronzong, Registeel, Cofagrigus, and Cobalion as it switches in. It also becomes a very effective pursuiter that can take out Ghost-types for other physical sweepers like Heracross or Cobalion.

    ...what are Snorlax's flaws? The only "flaws" I can think of are that it has "poor" typing, "weak" physical defense. On the defensive end its poor typing is made up for by its substantial special bulk. It only has one weakness to fighting, and this is easily balanced out by Pokemon like Cofagrigus or Crobat. Not to mention stuff like Cobalion or Scrafty might switch in expecting a weak Body Slam, but might instead eat a CB-boosted Earthquake or Return. Its offensive typing is "poor" because ghost is immune and Steel resists, but Crunch and Pursuit on the offensive end can nail ghosts, while Earthquake and Fire Punch can take out steel. If you're using the ResTalk set, it isn't that hard to predict the switch and just phaze them back out. Its "weak" physical defense isn't even that weak 65 Defense behind 160 HP isn't that terrible, and this is assuming we aren't boosting it with Curse. I Think Snorlax's flaws are thoroughly mitigated by its strengths, and it deserves to move up to S-rank.
  25. Forsety

    Forsety

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,634
    There is a simple reason why I could never see Snorlax any higher than A rank, do you see the metagame revolving entirely around Snorlax? Do you ever see it directly countering multiple S/A rank threats? Do you ever see it being discussed as a potential suspect? Is it capable of sweeping or supporting a large majority of the game unassisted?

    It's no to everything, it just happens to counter one or two of the bigger threats and not even 100% of the time. In some situations even Lure is capable of breaking through Snorlax eventually, it's fine where it is. It's a nice strong bulky pokemon that is solid in any team, but we're not going to be crying foul play or singing it's praises for cockblocking the entire current metagame anytime soon.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)