Project The VGC 2017 submit-a-project thread!

Theorymon

Let's a do the truffle shuffle!
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#1
With Pokemon Sun and Moon close to finally rising over the horizon, I believe its time that we start talking about how to handle VGC articles and threads.

I am of the firm belief that in order to make Smogon the best place for VGC (and Nintendo metagames such as Battle Spot), that in addition to our analyses, we need to have a strong article and forum presence that gives people a good look at the bigger pictures of the metagame.

Of course, before we get on with any grand plans, we need to figure out who wants to do what! And that's where this thread comes in: We want YOU to submit ideas! VGC staff will look at you ideas, tinker with them, and in general, assess if they will fit in.

This thread will serve as an index for prospective projects, ideas, and articles and whom have volunteered / been assigned to work on them.
Here are some sample articles and threads below, but these aren't the only things we need. Feel free to suggest other stuff if you want to do them!


To-Do List

Articles
  • Metagame Overview--not reserved, but I'm handpicking contributors for this
  • Pokemon Spotlight articles--not reserved, don't mind having loads of these
  • Pokemon European Continental report-- TheSaxlad
  • Guide to Speed Control--reserved to Mr.GX
  • Guide to Tapus and Ultrabeasts!--not reserved, but I'm handpicking contributors for this. will wait until after london at least. THIS WILL INCLUDE TERRAIN WARS
  • Beginner's Guide to EVing for VGC 17-- TheMantyke
  • Guide to Z-Moves!--not reserved yet, not approved until later

Forums
  • Viability lists-- Sapphire Birch
  • Pokemon European Continental Warstories--anyone who went can contribute
  • Break this Z-Crystal! (project title pending) --reserved to Project_Mars
  • Role Compendium--not reserved nor sure how we'll do this just yet since TheMantyke's thread has a lot of this
  • VGC 17 Complimentary Pairs --reserved to mattj
  • Creative and Interesting Sets-- Jio

In Progress

Finished

Below is an example of how I may propose a project. Don't fear though, you don't have to go as in-depth as I do if it isn't required for your proposal, this is just an example!

Proposal: A Trick Room article that goes over the basic Pokemon you will find on Trick Room teams. It will be divided into Trick Room setters, Pokemon that take advantage of Trick Room, and other important Pokemon.

Here is a vertical slice of how it would work.


Trick Room setters

Cresselia

Sample set

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam / Psychic
- Helping Hand
- Skill Swap / Gravity

What are the selling points?
Cresselia is the bulkiest option available for Trick Room, making it a reliable choice. Cresselia has a good support movepool to back it up, with Helping Hand being awesome for spread attackers such as Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, and Skill Swap allowing your team to maintain control of the weather, and even give Primal Groudon no weaknesses in the sun! For a more offensive approach, Cresselia is a good user of Gravity if you want every Pokemon to be hit by Primal Groudon's Precipice Blades.

What are its flaws?

Unlike Bronzong, Cresselia has almost no offensive presence, making it nearly useless after a Taunt if it lacks a Mental Herb. Additionally, Cresselia is set up bait for Pokemon such as Primal Groudon and Xerneas, which is especially problematic if the team can reverse Trick Room.



Please do not be offended if someone else is asked to host your project or if your project is not approved; we really appreciate your contributions!
 
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#2
I really think we need a "VGC 17 new mechanics" thread, as lots of stuff changed in the 7th Gen, like Paralysis speed drop, Confusion rate, etc.
I'm thinking on making a beginners article for Speed control in VGC 17, as its one of the most important aspects of the game ( I have written 2 of them for VGC 15 and 16), so hopefully, I could take that project. With new mons and new forms of speed control, I feel like its needed. We definitely need a Speed Tier List for the new mons, and some rules and guidelines for the new format, as well as sample teams and frameworks thread. To sum it up, what we need are:
  • Beginner's Guide to Speed Control in VGC 17 I have done this before, so I kinda want to reserve this)
  • New Mechanics in Gen VII and VGC 17 (Includes Timer ruling, paralysis etc,)
  • VGC 17 Speed Tier (Level 51 usually does this, I think he can do it again if he wants to)
  • Sample teams thread
  • Team Framework threads
  • Guide to Z-Moves (We got no mega's this format, so someone should sum up all the Z-Moves and how they work etc)
Hope you take this into consideration.

BLARAEDIT: most of these are in the works. i am willing to let you take the Beginner's Guide to Speed Control in VGC 17. you already posted the new mechanics thread and i like it so it's fine. the rest are approved, but going to other people.
 
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#3
Since Z-moves may be a major thing, perhaps a community project where each week people submit movesets that utilize a specific Z-Crystal and at the end people vote on which ones they like?

Since most Z-moves can be utilized by any Pokemon on the condition it knows a move of the corresponding type, there may be potential for a variety of sets. Or maybe just a few since viable users may be few. A mark against this proposal is that we don't know exactly what impact Z-moves will have on the meta, so we don't know if they'll be heavily utilized or mostly forgotten. Also a potential mark against it is there is only so many Z-Crystals, so such a project would not take all season. (If it just covers the elemental ones and starts the last weekend of November, it would last until mid-March.)

I do still think it is a neat idea, but possibly one that could wait a bit before starting if needed to see how Z-moves pan out in the meta.

BLARAEDIT: i like this project. if you draft up an OP and pm it to me, you can host it.
 
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#4
I was thinking.. Perhaps an article on Ultrabeasts is a good idea. Of course, we don't know if they're allowed, but since they are capturable, I think an article describing their niches is a good idea. After all, the ruleset doesn't say there banned.

BLARAEDIT: combining this with the tapu article below, going to leave this article for more experienced contributors. great idea though!
 
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#5
I was thinking.. Perhaps an article on Ultrabeasts is a good idea. Of course, we don't know if they're allowed, but since they are capturable, I think an article describing their niches is a good idea. After all, the ruleset doesn't say there banned.
I would say odds are they will be (assuming we can capture them) but if they are then what would differentiate them from other pokemon enough to warrent an article for just ultra beasts? At least, as far as we know at the present time. Why not add the Tapus too and treat 'em all like legendaries?

BLARAEDIT: above post
 
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#7
I think we need a role compendium for VGC 2017, especially since this year we'll probably be getting a lot of new players who don't have much teambuilding experience. It could list Pokemon that are viable as attackers, redirection, speed control, etc., along with suggested movesets.

BLARAEDIT: good idea, since this requires a lot of updating i'll probably choose who maintains this. not sure how this will work w/ themantyke's thread though
 
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#8
This might be more of a general thing / for the wifi forum, but a guide to IV breeding/EV training/soft resetting in the new games. I think everyone will need that to begin building and testing teams on cart.

BLARAEDIT: themantyke
 
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TheMantyke

what if he kicks the ghost
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#9
This might be more of a general thing / for the wifi forum, but a guide to IV breeding/EV training/soft resetting in the new games. I think everyone will need that to begin building and testing teams on cart.
I'll revise my XY guide closer to the game's release to account for SuMo's changes, as well as give more clear advice and polish things like the example given (87.5% pokemon are an awful first breed and made for a bad example, will probably use Magikarp next time).

BLARAEDIT: approved and i trust you, just host it or w/e whenever you want
 
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#10
I would say odds are they will be (assuming we can capture them) but if they are then what would differentiate them from other pokemon enough to warrent an article for just ultra beasts? At least, as far as we know at the present time. Why not add the Tapus too and treat 'em all like legendaries?
Good Point. I guess there isn't enough info to decide right now.
 
#12
We need a vgc 17 team building thread. Will b interesting with all the new Pokemon and stats released.

BLARAEDIT: not really sure what you mean by this.
 
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#13
Why not build a Pokemon Rank thread 2017 ver. or just a compendium for pokemon set or whatnot.

This is some of the set that I can think from the new Pokemon:
Lycanroc-M @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant or Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
- Sucker Punch / Brick Break
- Taunt / Brick Break / Snarl
- Protect

Toxapex @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Merciless
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm or Sassy Nature
- Sludge Bomb / Venoshock
- Ice Beam / Liquidation
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
Note:
-196 EV SpD survived 252+ SpA Vikavolt’s Thunderbolt with a minimal of 50.9%
-60 EV SpA can OHKO Landorus-T when Landorus-T is poisoned

Salazzle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb / Venoshock
- Flamethrower / Encore
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Poison Gas
- Fake Out / Protect
Note:
-244 Ev is enough to outspeed 252+ Spe Mega Rayquaza
-Poison Gas is good for supporting Pokemon that use Venoshock like Toxapex

Tsareena @ Lum Berry / Sitrus Berry / Z-crystal
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trop Kick
- Play Rough
- High Jump Kick / Acrobatic / Feint / Splash[+3 Atk with Z-crystal]
- Protect


BLARAEDIT: conflicts with viability rankings so I'm rejecting this. thanks for submitting!
 
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#15
So regarding my Z-Move compedium guide, We now know for sure that most attacking Z-Moves are the same as Gigavolt Havoc (BP varies based in base move's BP and it's either Physical or Special depending on the base move, no additional effects and pierces protect to deal 25% damage it would normally do) but that Status Z-Moves add an additional effect on top of their normal one... that is mostly meh with a lot being +1 stat boosts and a couple that would probably be seen in VGC... so potentially not much there after all.

BLARAEDIT: did you want to do a z-move guide? i thought you wanted to host the z-move community project thing? i'd rather wait for a z-move guide for later
 
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#16
I'm planning on using a lot of TR at the start of the season so I would be happy to share my knowledge. I would consider myself a knowledgeable player (having played since 2014) and I've won multiple Tournaments and placed well in Regionals, so I'll be around for the season.

BLARAEDIT: happy to hear it!
 
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mattj

blatant Nintendo fanboy
#17
I'd like to post an open discussion thread about complementary VGC '17 pairs. I whipped up an outline this morning, but I could clean it up and add a few more starter ideas.
As we all know VGC is doubles not singles. This gives us the unique opportunity to have one pokemon immediately support its partner during a single turn. But one pokemon supporting it's partner goes beyond the obvious moves like Helping Hand and Ally Swap. One pokemon's offensive and defensive typing can support its partner's weaknesses. Its ability can draw threatening attacks away from its ally. Its stats can allow it to outspeed certain specific threats to its partner, or survive specific attacks to KO back.

Now that we have the typing, abilities, stats, movepools, are beginning to learn the new mechanics, and have a working damage calculator we can begin to discover these new supportive pairs.

Although the full VGC '17 banlist hasn't been officially announced, it has been datamined. It's basically the Alolan pokedex minus Solgaleo, Lunala, Magearna, Marshadow, and Necrozoma.

Species and item clause are obviously in effect.

I'll update the OP with any suggestions to make an easy resource.



To get things started, here are a couple that I've been thinking about while pouring over the new mons:


Gyarados w/Life Orb
Intimidate
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
@L50: 170/194/99/72/121/133
Dragon Dance, Waterfall, Ice Fang, Crunch

+


Raichu w/Focus Sash
Lightning Rod
Timid
4HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 136/110/75/142/100/78
Fake Out, Thunder, Hidden Power Ice, Feint

This straightforward combo has existed since Raichu first got Lightning Rod as its hidden ability. It fits well on many Rain teams, allowing this combo or Raichu for other types of forward and rear support. Raichu draws and absorbs the only real threatening type attacks away from Gyarados and assists its Dragon Dance with Fake Out. Gyarados covers Raichu's defense deficit with Intimidate and counters its sole Ground Type weakness with its STAB Waterfall.

Obviously you can tweak whatever to fit your needs or the metagame as it forms. Maybe Physical Raichu will make some kind of comeback. Maybe you'd like to tie all these new slow pokemons' hands with Encore in place of Feint. Maybe you can't live without the (now 50%) speed control of Thunder Wave. There's a lot of proven usefulness.

Oricorio (Pom Pom Style[Electric/Flying]) w/Focus Sash/Life Orb/Z Crystal
Dancer
Modest
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 151/81/90/165/90/145
Revelation Dance[Ghost], Air Slash, Hidden Power (Ice/???), Protect

+

Ribombee w/Mental Herb
Shield Dust
Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 136/67/80/147/90/193
Quiver Dance, Pollen Puff, Moonblast, Protect

This pair abuses the new ability Dancer. Ribombee is nearly guaranteed to get a Quiver Dance with the Mental Herb blocking Taunt and Shield Dust blocking Fake Out. Assuming Dancer activates when your partner uses a dancing move, when Ribombee uses Quiver Dance not only will Ribombee boost itself, but it'll boost Oricorio too. And because Ribombee is faster Oricorio will THEN get to attack with it's newly raised SAtk.

I went with Electric/Flying Oricorio because it's probably, generally the best forme, as Zapdos and Thundurus have shown in the past. But any type should work fine. Fit your team's needs. You could go with Ghost/Flying in order to ignore Fake Out, which has been ever present in past VGC seasons. But with all of the anti-priority measures that will be available in VGC '17 Fake Out may not be as prevalent. And assuming Dancer activates after using Protect, this may not even be an issue.

I also just went with Hidden Power Ice because that's my go-to. Pick whatever to fit your team's needs.

Probably relevant calcs:

Vs Salamence
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 224-268 (130.9 - 156.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 122-146 (80.7 - 96.6%)
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 114-135 (75.4 - 89.4%)

Vs Garchomp
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 212-252 (115.8 - 137.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 121-142 (80.1 - 94%)
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 112-133 (74.1 - 88%)

Vs Metagross
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 114-135 (73 - 86.5%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 148-175 (94.8 - 112.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 103-123 (68.2 - 81.4%)
252+ Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 130-154 (86 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 26-31 (17.2 - 20.5%)

Vs Aerodactyl
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 264-312 (169.2 - 200%)
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 143-172 (94.7 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Vs Alolan Ninetales
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 105-124 (70.4 - 83.2%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 136-161 (91.2 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Ice Beam vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio-Electric: 102-122 (67.5 - 80.7%)
0- Atk Alolan Ninetales Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 42-50 (27.8 - 33.1%)

Vs Weavile
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 118-141 (81.3 - 97.2%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 153-183 (105.5 - 126.2%)
252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 186-218 (123.1 - 144.3%)
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 86-104 (56.9 - 68.8%)

Vs Silvally
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Normal Silvally: 109-130 (63.7 - 76%)
252 Atk Life Orb Normal Silvally Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 144-172 (95.3 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Ice or Rock Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 168-198 (111.2 - 131.1%)

Vikavolt w/Life Orb/Choice Specs/Assault Vest
Levitate
Modest
252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
@L50: 184/81/111/216/95/63
Thunderbolt, Bug Buzz, Hidden Power Ice, Discharge

+


Garchomp w/Choice Scarf/Life Orb/Focus Sash/Rocky Helmet
Rough Skin
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
@L50: 183/182/115/90/106/169
Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Iron Head, Rock Slide


The old Dis/Quake combo. Been winning games since 2009.

Vikavolt's Levitate lets Garchomp Earthquake freely. And Garchomp's Ground typing lets Vikavolt Discharge freely.

This is the first time that I can think of that a Dis/Quake combo has existed with a SERIOUS Discharger that didn't make the lead combo double weak to ice!

Probably Relevant Calcs:

Vikavolt Defending Garchomp against Alolan Ninetales
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 136-162 (91.2 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

To be filled in...

Exeggutor w/Life Orb/Focus Sash/Z Crystal/etc
Chlorophyll
Modest
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@ L50: 171/103/105/194/95/107
Leaf Storm, Psychic, Psyshock, Trick Room

+


Nintetales w/Sitrus Berry/Life Orb/Heat Rock/etc
Drought
Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@ L50: 149/86/95/133/120/167
Overheat, Solar Beam, Will-O-Wisp, Protect


This combo abuses Exeggutor's Chlorophyll speed boost. Ninetales' Drought boosts Exeggutor's speed. Exeggutor's speedy STAB Leaf Storm counters all of Ninetales' weaknesses. Exeggutor's Trick Room allows it to be useful even when you know you're going to lose the weather war.

Will add more explanation/calcs/etc.


But what about you?

What useful, powerful, or surprising complementary pairs have you been considering? Share them and I'll paste them into the OP for reference.


BLARAEDIT: i like the idea and don't mind you hosting the thread. you just need better examples. half of these use non-alola fully evolved pokemon that have alola forms, when we currently do not know if it's even possible to use them / if they're allowed in the format.
 
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#18
What about a theoretical tier list? We already know that tapu Koko is going to be top-tier this year, and a lot of strong contenders are available too. No strict tierings, so we'll just have a, b and c.
 
#19
I'd like to post an open discussion thread about complementary VGC '17 pairs. I whipped up an outline this morning, but I could clean it up and add a few more starter ideas.
As we all know VGC is doubles not singles. This gives us the unique opportunity to have one pokemon immediately support its partner during a single turn. But one pokemon supporting it's partner goes beyond the obvious moves like Helping Hand and Ally Swap. One pokemon's offensive and defensive typing can support its partner's weaknesses. Its ability can draw threatening attacks away from its ally. Its stats can allow it to outspeed certain specific threats to its partner, or survive specific attacks to KO back.

Now that we have the typing, abilities, stats, movepools, are beginning to learn the new mechanics, and have a working damage calculator we can begin to discover these new supportive pairs.

Although the full VGC '17 banlist hasn't been officially announced, it has been datamined. It's basically the Alolan pokedex minus Solgaleo, Lunala, Magearna, Marshadow, and Necrozoma.

Species and item clause are obviously in effect.

I'll update the OP with any suggestions to make an easy resource.



To get things started, here are a couple that I've been thinking about while pouring over the new mons:


Gyarados w/Life Orb
Intimidate
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
@L50: 170/194/99/72/121/133
Dragon Dance, Waterfall, Ice Fang, Crunch

+


Raichu w/Focus Sash
Lightning Rod
Timid
4HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 136/110/75/142/100/78
Fake Out, Thunder, Hidden Power Ice, Feint

This straightforward combo has existed since Raichu first got Lightning Rod as its hidden ability. It fits well on many Rain teams, allowing this combo or Raichu for other types of forward and rear support. Raichu draws and absorbs the only real threatening type attacks away from Gyarados and assists its Dragon Dance with Fake Out. Gyarados covers Raichu's defense deficit with Intimidate and counters its sole Ground Type weakness with its STAB Waterfall.

Obviously you can tweak whatever to fit your needs or the metagame as it forms. Maybe Physical Raichu will make some kind of comeback. Maybe you'd like to tie all these new slow pokemons' hands with Encore in place of Feint. Maybe you can't live without the (now 50%) speed control of Thunder Wave. There's a lot of proven usefulness.

Oricorio (Pom Pom Style[Electric/Flying]) w/Focus Sash/Life Orb/Z Crystal
Dancer
Modest
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 151/81/90/165/90/145
Revelation Dance[Ghost], Air Slash, Hidden Power (Ice/???), Protect

+

Ribombee w/Mental Herb
Shield Dust
Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 136/67/80/147/90/193
Quiver Dance, Pollen Puff, Moonblast, Protect

This pair abuses the new ability Dancer. Ribombee is nearly guaranteed to get a Quiver Dance with the Mental Herb blocking Taunt and Shield Dust blocking Fake Out. Assuming Dancer activates when your partner uses a dancing move, when Ribombee uses Quiver Dance not only will Ribombee boost itself, but it'll boost Oricorio too. And because Ribombee is faster Oricorio will THEN get to attack with it's newly raised SAtk.

I went with Electric/Flying Oricorio because it's probably, generally the best forme, as Zapdos and Thundurus have shown in the past. But any type should work fine. Fit your team's needs. You could go with Ghost/Flying in order to ignore Fake Out, which has been ever present in past VGC seasons. But with all of the anti-priority measures that will be available in VGC '17 Fake Out may not be as prevalent. And assuming Dancer activates after using Protect, this may not even be an issue.

I also just went with Hidden Power Ice because that's my go-to. Pick whatever to fit your team's needs.

Probably relevant calcs:

Vs Salamence
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 224-268 (130.9 - 156.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 122-146 (80.7 - 96.6%)
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 114-135 (75.4 - 89.4%)

Vs Garchomp
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 212-252 (115.8 - 137.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 121-142 (80.1 - 94%)
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 112-133 (74.1 - 88%)

Vs Metagross
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 114-135 (73 - 86.5%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 148-175 (94.8 - 112.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 103-123 (68.2 - 81.4%)
252+ Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 130-154 (86 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 26-31 (17.2 - 20.5%)

Vs Aerodactyl
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 264-312 (169.2 - 200%)
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 143-172 (94.7 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Vs Alolan Ninetales
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 105-124 (70.4 - 83.2%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 136-161 (91.2 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Ice Beam vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio-Electric: 102-122 (67.5 - 80.7%)
0- Atk Alolan Ninetales Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 42-50 (27.8 - 33.1%)

Vs Weavile
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 118-141 (81.3 - 97.2%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 153-183 (105.5 - 126.2%)
252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 186-218 (123.1 - 144.3%)
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 86-104 (56.9 - 68.8%)

Vs Silvally
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Normal Silvally: 109-130 (63.7 - 76%)
252 Atk Life Orb Normal Silvally Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 144-172 (95.3 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Ice or Rock Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 168-198 (111.2 - 131.1%)

Vikavolt w/Life Orb/Choice Specs/Assault Vest
Levitate
Modest
252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
@L50: 184/81/111/216/95/63
Thunderbolt, Bug Buzz, Hidden Power Ice, Discharge

+


Garchomp w/Choice Scarf/Life Orb/Focus Sash/Rocky Helmet
Rough Skin
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
@L50: 183/182/115/90/106/169
Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Iron Head, Rock Slide


The old Dis/Quake combo. Been winning games since 2009.

Vikavolt's Levitate lets Garchomp Earthquake freely. And Garchomp's Ground typing lets Vikavolt Discharge freely.

This is the first time that I can think of that a Dis/Quake combo has existed with a SERIOUS Discharger that didn't make the lead combo double weak to ice!

Probably Relevant Calcs:

Vikavolt Defending Garchomp against Alolan Ninetales
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 136-162 (91.2 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

To be filled in...

Exeggutor w/Life Orb/Focus Sash/Z Crystal/etc
Chlorophyll
Modest
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@ L50: 171/103/105/194/95/107
Leaf Storm, Psychic, Psyshock, Trick Room

+


Nintetales w/Sitrus Berry/Life Orb/Heat Rock/etc
Drought
Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@ L50: 149/86/95/133/120/167
Overheat, Solar Beam, Will-O-Wisp, Protect


This combo abuses Exeggutor's Chlorophyll speed boost. Ninetales' Drought boosts Exeggutor's speed. Exeggutor's speedy STAB Leaf Storm counters all of Ninetales' weaknesses. Exeggutor's Trick Room allows it to be useful even when you know you're going to lose the weather war.

Will add more explanation/calcs/etc.


But what about you?

What useful, powerful, or surprising complementary pairs have you been considering? Share them and I'll paste them into the OP for reference.

Some of these won't work as it's been shown that even breeding non-alolan pokemon in alola will give you alolan versions. So getting regular ninetales, exeggutor, or raichu isn't possible. Disregard, I'm wrong: https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/798036010764353536

Also you listed oricorio as having ghost revelation dance while being pom-pom style but that move always matches oricorio's type.
 
Last edited:

mattj

blatant Nintendo fanboy
#20
Some of these won't work as it's been shown that even breeding non-alolan pokemon in alola will give you alolan versions. So getting regular ninetales, exeggutor, or raichu isn't possible.
Also you listed oricorio as having ghost revelation dance while being pom-pom style but that move always matches oricorio's type.
Thanks. Didn't realize you can't breed old forme alolan mons. I misread Kazowar's tweet.
(lol and then Kazowar figures out we CAN breed non-alolans https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/798036010764353536).

It's very literally just an idea though. It'll have to be completely different now that UBs are confirmed as legal. Lots of the stuff I would have included, like Ribombee/Oricorio just isn't going to be able to stand in that kind of meta.

And Oricorio's Revelation Dance was just an oversight. I originally had Sensu Form, but changed it to Pom Pom.

I still think we need a discussion like this. And now that we have the datamined VGC'17 banlist we can do it.
 
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#22
I'd like to post an open discussion thread about complementary VGC '17 pairs. I whipped up an outline this morning, but I could clean it up and add a few more starter ideas.
As we all know VGC is doubles not singles. This gives us the unique opportunity to have one pokemon immediately support its partner during a single turn. But one pokemon supporting it's partner goes beyond the obvious moves like Helping Hand and Ally Swap. One pokemon's offensive and defensive typing can support its partner's weaknesses. Its ability can draw threatening attacks away from its ally. Its stats can allow it to outspeed certain specific threats to its partner, or survive specific attacks to KO back.

Now that we have the typing, abilities, stats, movepools, are beginning to learn the new mechanics, and have a working damage calculator we can begin to discover these new supportive pairs.

Although the full VGC '17 banlist hasn't been officially announced, it has been datamined. It's basically the Alolan pokedex minus Solgaleo, Lunala, Magearna, Marshadow, and Necrozoma.

Species and item clause are obviously in effect.

I'll update the OP with any suggestions to make an easy resource.



To get things started, here are a couple that I've been thinking about while pouring over the new mons:


Gyarados w/Life Orb
Intimidate
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
@L50: 170/194/99/72/121/133
Dragon Dance, Waterfall, Ice Fang, Crunch

+


Raichu w/Focus Sash
Lightning Rod
Timid
4HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 136/110/75/142/100/78
Fake Out, Thunder, Hidden Power Ice, Feint

This straightforward combo has existed since Raichu first got Lightning Rod as its hidden ability. It fits well on many Rain teams, allowing this combo or Raichu for other types of forward and rear support. Raichu draws and absorbs the only real threatening type attacks away from Gyarados and assists its Dragon Dance with Fake Out. Gyarados covers Raichu's defense deficit with Intimidate and counters its sole Ground Type weakness with its STAB Waterfall.

Obviously you can tweak whatever to fit your needs or the metagame as it forms. Maybe Physical Raichu will make some kind of comeback. Maybe you'd like to tie all these new slow pokemons' hands with Encore in place of Feint. Maybe you can't live without the (now 50%) speed control of Thunder Wave. There's a lot of proven usefulness.

Oricorio (Pom Pom Style[Electric/Flying]) w/Focus Sash/Life Orb/Z Crystal
Dancer
Modest
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 151/81/90/165/90/145
Revelation Dance[Ghost], Air Slash, Hidden Power (Ice/???), Protect

+

Ribombee w/Mental Herb
Shield Dust
Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 136/67/80/147/90/193
Quiver Dance, Pollen Puff, Moonblast, Protect

This pair abuses the new ability Dancer. Ribombee is nearly guaranteed to get a Quiver Dance with the Mental Herb blocking Taunt and Shield Dust blocking Fake Out. Assuming Dancer activates when your partner uses a dancing move, when Ribombee uses Quiver Dance not only will Ribombee boost itself, but it'll boost Oricorio too. And because Ribombee is faster Oricorio will THEN get to attack with it's newly raised SAtk.

I went with Electric/Flying Oricorio because it's probably, generally the best forme, as Zapdos and Thundurus have shown in the past. But any type should work fine. Fit your team's needs. You could go with Ghost/Flying in order to ignore Fake Out, which has been ever present in past VGC seasons. But with all of the anti-priority measures that will be available in VGC '17 Fake Out may not be as prevalent. And assuming Dancer activates after using Protect, this may not even be an issue.

I also just went with Hidden Power Ice because that's my go-to. Pick whatever to fit your team's needs.

Probably relevant calcs:

Vs Salamence
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 224-268 (130.9 - 156.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 122-146 (80.7 - 96.6%)
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 114-135 (75.4 - 89.4%)

Vs Garchomp
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 212-252 (115.8 - 137.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 121-142 (80.1 - 94%)
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 112-133 (74.1 - 88%)

Vs Metagross
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 114-135 (73 - 86.5%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 148-175 (94.8 - 112.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 103-123 (68.2 - 81.4%)
252+ Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 130-154 (86 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 26-31 (17.2 - 20.5%)

Vs Aerodactyl
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 264-312 (169.2 - 200%)
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 143-172 (94.7 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Vs Alolan Ninetales
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 105-124 (70.4 - 83.2%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 136-161 (91.2 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Ice Beam vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio-Electric: 102-122 (67.5 - 80.7%)
0- Atk Alolan Ninetales Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 42-50 (27.8 - 33.1%)

Vs Weavile
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 118-141 (81.3 - 97.2%)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 153-183 (105.5 - 126.2%)
252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 186-218 (123.1 - 144.3%)
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 86-104 (56.9 - 68.8%)

Vs Silvally
+1 252+ SpA Oricorio-Electric Revelation Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Normal Silvally: 109-130 (63.7 - 76%)
252 Atk Life Orb Normal Silvally Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 144-172 (95.3 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Ice or Rock Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Oricorio-Electric: 168-198 (111.2 - 131.1%)

Vikavolt w/Life Orb/Choice Specs/Assault Vest
Levitate
Modest
252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
@L50: 184/81/111/216/95/63
Thunderbolt, Bug Buzz, Hidden Power Ice, Discharge

+


Garchomp w/Choice Scarf/Life Orb/Focus Sash/Rocky Helmet
Rough Skin
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
@L50: 183/182/115/90/106/169
Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Iron Head, Rock Slide


The old Dis/Quake combo. Been winning games since 2009.

Vikavolt's Levitate lets Garchomp Earthquake freely. And Garchomp's Ground typing lets Vikavolt Discharge freely.

This is the first time that I can think of that a Dis/Quake combo has existed with a SERIOUS Discharger that didn't make the lead combo double weak to ice!

Probably Relevant Calcs:

Vikavolt Defending Garchomp against Alolan Ninetales
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 136-162 (91.2 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

To be filled in...

Exeggutor w/Life Orb/Focus Sash/Z Crystal/etc
Chlorophyll
Modest
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@ L50: 171/103/105/194/95/107
Leaf Storm, Psychic, Psyshock, Trick Room

+


Nintetales w/Sitrus Berry/Life Orb/Heat Rock/etc
Drought
Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
@ L50: 149/86/95/133/120/167
Overheat, Solar Beam, Will-O-Wisp, Protect


This combo abuses Exeggutor's Chlorophyll speed boost. Ninetales' Drought boosts Exeggutor's speed. Exeggutor's speedy STAB Leaf Storm counters all of Ninetales' weaknesses. Exeggutor's Trick Room allows it to be useful even when you know you're going to lose the weather war.

Will add more explanation/calcs/etc.


But what about you?

What useful, powerful, or surprising complementary pairs have you been considering? Share them and I'll paste them into the OP for reference.
Celesteela/garchomp and a tapu of your choice is quite good in theory. Garchomp wrecks xurkitree and tapu koko which threaten celesteela, can spam EQ without team damage, and celesteela crushes ice types and resists a good deal of garchomps weaknesses.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
#24
For an article we could do team breakdowns of some teams that have won a regional or something like that. Another idea could be metagame trends over the period of a year which could show the development on 2017 meta. Finally we could interview players and release it in an article similar to bummer' s artiviews.

For projects we could have a teambuilding competition that focuses around cores and tournaments like last year that gave out Pokemon that were top tier and viable (completely ready to go!) To go even further we could do a VGC style Pokemon Showcase article and "advertise" the giveaway so people read the article, want to use the mon, and are happy both ways making them look forward to future stuff that may be similar.

Finally, I'm not entirely sure if we have it or not but a VGC Twitter / Facebook could be nice for realising info on new projects, arti c les, and giveaways.
 
Likes: TJ
#25
I'm working on a spotlight series on YouTube, with a new episode every 3-4 days. I'm not sure if this is of relevance, but it might be interesting to add to written articles.
I have the written scripts for these saved, so I can probably turn these into actual articles (with EV spreads/Showdown exports for the example sets).