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Gen 2 The wall shattered!

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by -Absol-, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. -Absol-

    -Absol-

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    So, anyone of us probably the first time you will be approached to gsc has inevitably thought this metagame and toward the stall. This is true in a sense, if you think that stcune + stkou block almost all of the metagame, and there are other slots. But basically there is a point in favor of an offensive team in a battle that can not be underestimated, and is given by the two reasons that have battler: a play not to lose, the other plays to win. You understand well that the two concepts are very different: it means not to lose? while a player plays at most of their forces to achieve victory for the other plays "to not lose. " This from a crucial point in favor of the offensive player, who clearly is the one who dictates the times: If we do not succeed, probably fail soon. The team will now place not only aims to control the time in a battle, not giving breath to the opposing player, but also aims to destroy opposing defenses through the use of the following concatenated pokemon, which will give very little respite in a stall team, and also versus "offensive" team.


    [​IMG]
    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers ** War Pigs
    - Belly Drum
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Lovely Kiss
    If you were to describe in a gsc pokemon, what pokemon would probably Snorlax. This is because it is a pokemon that is suitable for any type of strategy. The drummer brings with it an extraordinary offensive and is an exceptional wall breaker. He did not rest, but in the end is not important, because it will not have miltank or it may awaken Blissey: Lovely kiss is in fact a move of enormous help to a team like that, sleep or Cloyster Gengar is a good opportunity to sweep comomponents with others, even if Gengar anyway I do not have to worry about. Snorlax course proves a valuable aid in the fight to the special, which often allows him to stay in the field to sow terror in the enemy ranks
    Role:
    Lurer Skarmory, wall breaker, bait-Cloyster forretress, sweeper.

    [​IMG]
    Umbreon (M) @ Leftovers ** Planet Caravan
    - Charm
    - Moonlight
    - Pursuit
    - Toxic
    Probably, this pokemon will be seen, at least initially, as a sort of slow strategy, is not the case, indeed. I could choose between him and Tyranitar, and at first I was more inclined towards the Jurassic beast, but unfortunately, this pokemon was not able to beat Starmie. Here is the choice to enter Umbreon, who has a certain solidity to the team, as you can afford several entrances and a recovery move immediately, without the omnipresent sand in RSE and recover as much as good. Toxic stalling is not just against marowak and with more confidence to beat Starmie and Alakazam. Mainly, however, is very annoying because it eliminates pokemon like Gengar and Starmie Alakazam exeguttor. It reveals a fundamental element in all defensive battle
    Role:
    Killer Starmie, ghost, and various psychic.

    [​IMG]
    Gengar (M) @ Leftovers ** Electric Funeral
    - Destiny Bond
    - Explosion
    - Fire Punch
    - Thunder
    The friendly ghost is here for a number of reasons that make it unique:
    combination of the first explosion + destiny bond, that kill at least one pokemon ,and without a pokemon, the stall team are often in distress. Destiny Bond, however, removes all existing curser, not counting people like Vaporeon or marowak who have a little boost too. Explosion goes instead to hit the various zapdos and Raikou that boldly come upon him: this makes a lot of things in my sweeper. After many tests I opted for the handful of more focus on that cold, ice, mainly because I found it a bit useless. Thunder ohkoes Zard after a drum and two refills of leftovers, and paralyze me Raikou is as good as killed. Wall breaker impressive, a real threat to the stall team.
    Role:
    Bait zapdos Raikou, wall breaker.

    [​IMG]
    Charizard (M) @ Leftovers ** Paranoid
    - Belly Drum
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Rock Slide
    Probably underestimated, and OU but not too many teams have a real answer to drumzard, and even though they had already been destroyed by the rest of the team. Rock slide is a lot to hit the other Charizard and the damage output of return is only slightly higher than earthquake. Without Starmie, Gengar and electrical sweep by god. However, Suicune is not a problem since the ohkoes with a move. But that's why we have friends. We'll talk later, with the next Pokemon. Charizard is not particularly defensive, but if Snorlax is also weakened the beats suffering an attack, and is a good pokemon to send or fight against eq.
    Role:
    Sweeper, lurer Suicune.

    [​IMG]
    Marowak (M) @ Thick Club ** Rat Salad
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Rock Slide
    - Swords Dance
    This Pokemon has very few counters, and those few have been removed or prevented from the rest of the team: Cloyster can do nothing if it is asleep, Starmie is dead, as well as Starmie and Gengar (which may or explode or use dbond), while the Heracross kills alone . Collaborate effectively with Charizard to fight Suicune and Vaporeon although the latter is almost nothing to his counter. Do a little bad at all, benefits greatly skamory killing, what will happen with the next Pokemon and Snorlax, and often sweep. Snorlax help in covering the electric, unless they have hidden power superefficaci. Is however a good pokemon to be sent on various things like healbell miltank of rest or some other pokemon. Needless to say, if it comes, does damage to kill a monster game and at least he does it.
    Role:
    Sweeper, lurer Suicune, wall breaker.

    [​IMG]
    Machamp (M) @ Leftovers ** Iron Man
    - Cross Chop
    - Curse
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    A little time ago I read that there are no real counter to Machamp in gsc and only Starmie is a switch in safely. Well, but Starmie is no more! Machamp is simply divine, one can not do anything in a battle if you find you have no control over their counters, as is indeed very likely. Along with drumlax marowak and then beat skarmory and one of these three can sweep. Without Starmie, Gengar, exeguttor, Alakazam, skamory the wrestler wins. Always. In fact, the majority of the time I won with him. Rock slide is to hit zapdos, it is a bit useless but make no mention rest. Blocks a lot of people, from a Tyranitar miltank through Snorlax. Also impressive is a wall breaker.
    Role:
    Sweeper, Bait Skarmory, Wall Breaker.



    GOOGLE TRAD (lol) i don't know if there are some grammatical errors :(
    some concets are in borat's post :)
  2. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    882
    Stalls are rarely seen anymore; you shouldn't be focusing your offense in beating them. Foregoing a ST-er is not what you want now, with Egg, Nido, LKLax and Gengar being top threats.
    Moreover, without Rest in Snorlax you are weak against special attackers, like STZapdos and Roarkou. Spikes has become a staple on nearly every team as well. You should also go with Rock Slide Champ and Ice Punch Gengar, given that Zapdos happens to be in 99% of the teams.

    Some changes you should imo do are:
    -FB +RS Machamp
    -DB/Explosion/FP +Ice Punch Gengar and probably Hypnosis somewhere as well.
    -Drum/EQ/LK +Rest Snorlax. Add ST is a good idea as well.
    In addition, Charizard has a harder time now setting up due to the quicker meta, Marowak tends to die quickly given the rise of Spikes and Umbreon doesn't really fit in an offensive team. Good options would be to add Rest - ST - HPIce - Thunder Zapdos, a normal resister like Steelix over Umbreon and to add a Cloyster to provide Spikes.
  3. -Absol-

    -Absol-

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    i know, the mg is changing to offensive. (that's not true offense, but, how we used to say in my country, "random offense" that wins only versus another offensive team, but fails versus a stall). I think that l'll test with your changes, anyway
  4. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    That was when offense wasn't developed and understanded enough. "Random offensive" teams are made of random sweepers with no synergy and strategy. Offensive teams aren't. STZapdos + STSnorlax + Steelix etc is almost as much defense as a stall team could have anyway. A offensive team only "fail" (0% chances of winning) against stall teams when it doesn't have a strategy, a way, a route to go. The key is to find the best one and focus on it. Stall teams can't wall everything, that's its problem; they are likely to fail against one of the well-built and well-played offensive teams' routes.
  5. Borat

    Borat

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    809
    Most of this isn't true. Maybe the half dozen or so people you play with who tug their tails between their legs and follow me around where ever I go, but other people exist. Stalls exist. Not everyone runs ST kou/zap + curselax +Steelix + sleeper + spiker + sweeper like I do in that one team. Maybe you do. Maybe a couple other people that frequent my shit do. I mean, what you're left with after following your "advice" is this:
    ST Zapdos (st electric)
    ST Lax (yea)
    Steelix (normal resist, phazer, and ground all rolled into one)
    Cloyster (my spiker of choice)
    3 attack cursechamp (a sweeper I like)
    Gengar (a sleeper I like)

    Does that shit look familiar at all? Honestly, I've seen a dozen or so netteam me and come up with the exact same shit with miniscule changes. For once, I regret posting those mini-guides. The teams and concepts were just examples, not the be-all-end-all of shit. They completely took the thinking out of team-building for people like you, and make for an absolute retarded narrow-minded meta. That was just one team, I don't care how many variations of Egg/Nido/Gengar you can throw in that one slot, it's still just the same shit. It's not even a meta, it's just one team.

    If anything, I'd say standard Curselax breaks the so called "meta", but good thing that the meta you described isn't actually the meta, eh?

    Drumzard is still entirely viable.

    Don't play like Cune/Skarm/Umbreon/bellers/ptrap no longer exist. Just because I don't use them, or I don't praise them, doesn't mean they're not viable and out and about.

    This is complete bullshit. I'd stall anything you're using if I decide to go back to stalling. You can't really preach my concepts and theories if you don't understand them at all.
  6. -Absol-

    -Absol-

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
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    O__O

    however no, the definition of random offense is that i posted i my last post -.-
    or anyway in my country is that.

    anyway, an offensive team that doesn't think to break stall is obviosuly a fail team.
    also if the meta is offenive
    ^_^
    and the mg isn't offensive, (or anyway the international mg isn't)



    ps: borat what do u think about the team? O__O
  7. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    I've always found the combination of umbreon and machamp to be an intriguing one, with umby, in theory, taking out one of starmie/egg/ghost and machamp blazing through the rest of the team. Without Rock Slide, though, Zapdos does become a problem, and my experience with umbreon tells me that it can often be more useful mean-looking stuff once the foe's phazer is gone than it is at pursuiting Machamp's counters.

    For a team focused on dismantling stall with the likes of drumzard and marowak, you have little way of dealing with suicune/cloyster, aside from sacrificing zard/wak for the sake of destroying the mutual counter. Which is fine, but stalls featuring both (not uncommon) could give you problems and shut down that route. Same goes for stalls featuring both Zapdos and Raikou.

    Lack of phaze makes you random-umby and p-trap weak. I'd say umby is your least productive player, tbh. Steelix, while not exactly "creative," fills the role of phazer and secondary water bait (or skarm bait to make snorlax's sweep easier, or often zapdos bait if you let your opponent know that it only has EQ. It can also be egg bait though, so watch out).

    As far as optional changes to go over whatever, perhaps your eon of choice is Jolteon (not that you need to limit yourself to one, mind you), because Agipass can make it pretty much gg as soon as you can get it off to lax or wak. Dragonite over Gengar can paralyze kou/zap if you need it to (it's more reliable than trying to explode on them), and can soften up a lot of things, which really helps Charizard since, though it has speed, it often just lacks the power to net OHKOs on a lot of things.

    Personally, I wouldn't go hyper-offense, because it's a very risky playstyle that can either net you a quick win or burn out and give you a quick defeat. It's unreliable, but hey, it's exciting and keeps people on their toes, so more power to you for using it.

    Did it with my woman 'cause she couldn't help me with my mind.

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