1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The WALLS thread!

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Pwnemon, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,584
    Not to be confused with the Stall thread, which is about playstyles, this is a thread about all things wall! A wall is a Pokemon capable of taking many hits. To kick us off, I'll start by listing good physical, special, and mixed walls.

    Physical Walls:

    To be a good OU physical wall, you need:

    1. Good HP and Defense (Obviously)
    2. Reliable Recovery
    3. Resistance to some of Dragon, Fighting, Ground, or Rock
    4. The ability to set up hazards and/or phaze reliably (not mandatory)

    OU

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory is OU's premier physical wall, for obvious reasons. He has base 140 Defense, which is the opposite of laughable. He can Spike and Phaze better than any other physical wall in OU and has reliable recovery in the form of Roost. He is immune to Ground and resists Dragon, with a neutrality to Fighting and Rock. Not much else comes close.

    [​IMG]
    Nothing controls the hazard game quite like Forretress. With Rapid Spin, all three hazards, Sturdy, decent attack and a quick getaway in Volt Switch, Forretress is a mixed bag of utility. He also sports a resistance to Dragon, always nice, and only one weakness.

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor sort of fell into disfavor after the Banning of Excadrill, but it's still far from useless. Poison Heal gives him immunity to status and good recovery. He also sports the great Ground attacking type and resistances to Ground and Fighting. Unfortunately, his DW ability makes his best moves illegal, most notably Stealth Rock and Roost.



    UU

    [​IMG]
    Slowbro is another good wall, capable of stopping what Skarmory can't: namely, Terrakion and Conkeldurr. Slack Off and Regenerator give him intense staying power and Scald's 30% burn chance means that you have a chance to cripple physical attackers even after Slowbro dies. If you see him, might as well chill out and drink a natty ice because he ain't going anywhere.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar is getting all the love when it comes to Sand, but Hippowdon is no joke either. He is able to counter physical dragons, as although he does not resist, he has insane 108/118/72 Defenses and Slack off. Great ground STAB as well, Ice Fang, Stealth Rock, Yawn, and Whirlwind mean you underestimate the other Streamer at your own risk.



    RU

    [​IMG]
    Special Walls:

    Special walls should:

    1. Have high HP and Special Defense
    2. Have reliable Recovery
    3. Resist the types Ice, Fire, Electric, and Dragon
    4. Be able to support their team with status, wishes, or heal bell, among other things

    OU

    [​IMG]
    Blissey - ticking off special attackers since Gen II. Nothing says Special Wall as iconically as this pink blob. Insane base 255 HP and 135 SpD means she can tank literally anything special. Access to Wish, Softboiled, Aromatherapy, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Stealth Rock means that she can do more than just sit there pretty while she's out, as well.

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel is one of those classics everybody loves. Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes, base 120 SpDef and insane speed for a wall are just some of the perks he has to offer, as well as a great typing, both defensive and offensive. He resists both Ice and Fire. Sadly, he has no reliable recovery, but Rain Dish + Leftovers in Rain gives him Gliscor-level recovery.

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent has great special defense and HP and a great typing as well. With access to Will-O-Wisp, he can pseudo-boost his own Defense to boot. Three immunities to Fighting, Normal, and Water, and resistances to Fire and Ice are no joke either. Don't underestimate this jellyfish.

    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon can more or less walk straight over rain teams with the Ability Storm Drain and his great special defenses of 111/82 and only one weakness. He can either go the defensive route with Recover, Toxic, and Scald or power through with Specs after a Storm Drain boost. Rain teams, make sure you pack a counter.

    [​IMG]


    UU

    [​IMG]
    Mixed Walls:

    A mixed wall should:

    • Be generally pretty cool
    • Live long and prosper

    OU

    [​IMG]
    After a long stint at the top of the leaderboard, Ferrothorn has started to decline in usage but is hardly less effective. With access to Spikes, SR, and Leech seed (but not all at once, sadly) he can support his team well and heal himself fairly well to boot. A crippling 4x weakness to Fire hurts, though.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi has two main purposes in life: Iron Head Flinch and a great mixed wall. With Steel typing allowing it to tank Draco Meteors like a boss and the ability to hit physical or special makes him a force to be reckoned with.

    [​IMG]


    UU

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 has kind of lost its glamor since the beginning of the fifth Generation, but it's still a beast with Eviolite equipped. It can counter many Pokemon with Trace, such as Heatran, Chandelure, Jellicent, and Jolteon. Very few things that are not Fighting Type can bust through it, so Pory can either Recover stall endlessly and hit with surprisingly high power, or Thunder Wave and switch to a counter.

    [​IMG]


    RU

    [​IMG]
    One word: Unaware. Quagsire is able to stall out all boosters with his gift of an ability. Recover, Stockpile, Curse, blahblahblah.

    Post your own walls, go more in depth on sets, etc! WALLS TO THE MAX
  2. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,368
    I know he has really fallen out of favor this Gen, but I will vouch for Swampert as a Mixed Wall (though he is more defensive than specially defensive)

    [pimg]260[/pimg]

    Swampert is still one of the most reliable Stealth Rock users around. Swampert has great HP and typing with Water/Ground, only giving him one weakness and great resistances to Rock and immunity to Electric attacks. Swampert most notable niche in the metagame is his great ability to counter Sand-Teams. Access to Waterfall, Hammer Arm, Ice Beam, and most notably STAB Earthquake let's him hit opposing Sand-Offenders super effectively while he can easily tank their hits back. He stands his ground against rain teams to due to his now boosted Waterfall. Lastly he has some notable options such as Scald to take opponents physical hits easier, Roar, and CounterCoat
  3. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,148
    Swampert's main trouble as a mixed wall IMO is that most water attacks in rain 2HKO him, which makes life difficult considering how slow he is.
    With that said,
    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon continues to be one of my favorite pokes. It can be a nightmare for rain teams to take out (although it shines more as a Specs user in my opinion) and is still an overall decent special wall.

    Also, let's not forget the best mixed wall in the game.
    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 has kind of lost its shine but it still continues to be an "oh shit" button for a lot of teams. If your opponent has set up a Swords Dance or etc with some Pokemon that isn't Fighting type (and even then Scrafty is too weak to break Pory2 lolol) you can count on Porygon2 to survive a hit and paralyze the opponent so that another Pokemon on your team can finish the job.
  4. orbpom123

    orbpom123

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    279
    Milotic is a wall i've seen a few times in OU that is a PAIN to take down. With only 2 weaknesses and access to great defenses, it can truely be a wall in the OU tier. Its ability just adds on to being a wall, which raises defense 50% when inflicted under a status condition. You may say "oh it has no way to recover", WRONG. With its ability, rest just raises its health AND defense, which is probably the most useful ability to its pokemon in the game. Above that, it can rest talk to dragon tail, and throw pokemon around so they get inflicted by rocks/spikes. With all this, it can also provide some sort of offensive capabilities( 30% of burn on an attack which further heightens it's walling powers. While all this is happening, leftovers is replenishing that health which may cause opponents to scream. Milotic is absolutely a force to be reckoned with, even in OU
  5. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Milotic has Recover, so no one will really say "oh it has no way to recover".
  6. orbpom123

    orbpom123

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    279
    Lol, rest is much better.
  7. Yarnus of Bethany

    Yarnus of Bethany

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,065
    Tangrowth, now that it has regenerator, can actually use its high hp and defense. Unlike most other walls, it can also serve as an annoyer or attacker.
  8. Bob_Squob

    Bob_Squob

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    207
    Let's not forget Quagsire and his ability to shut down boosting attackers.
  9. StruggleSweep

    StruggleSweep

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    45
    Seriously, No Chansey? It basically does exactly what Blassey does, but with better Physical Defense. The only bad thing is the lack of lefties.
  10. un?lucky

    un?lucky

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    129
    Don't forget about this beast!

    [​IMG]

    One of the bulkiest pokemon around and with 108/118/72 defenses and one of the few pokemon I've used that can actually counter terakion AND mixtar at the same time with around 80ev's in spD. It is one of the best switch ins to physical dragon types as it is not weak to fire and can take even boosted outrages and stall them out.

    He's pretty much my first switch in to anything physical as not many things can OHKO him let alone 2HKO and with Stealth rock he can provide valuable team support. I actually prefer ice fang over roar so he can actually do some damage to flying types but I suppose roar is a viable alternative too.
  11. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012 Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,439
    Trace porygon2 is just AWESOME! One of the best counters to chandelure (flash fire), heatran (flash fire), jellicent (with water absorb), and other water absorb pokemon. He may have issues with some of the bulkier special walls (such as specially defensive heatran). Replacing discharge/thunderbolt with charge beam or the proper hidden power may help with this issue.
  12. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    [​IMG]mixed wall/tank
    [​IMG]
    physical wall
    [​IMG]
    special/mixed wall
  13. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Lol, rest is much better.[/QUOTE]
    Whether it is better or not, my point still stands - it has reliable recovery. That lol was totally uncalled for.
  14. balding2early

    balding2early

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    dusclops cresselia both mixed suicine physical
  15. Benny in a Jet

    Benny in a Jet

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    233
    [​IMG]

    With 110/105/95 defenses, good movepool (Whirlwind, Toxic, Knock Off, Roost etc) she's a good wall in NU/RU.
  16. min min

    min min

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2010
    Messages:
    939
    It's a shame it can't deal much damage, but it's extremely good at SubRoost stalling. It has decent speed to boot, so with some EVs it can be a Zapdos in the lower tiers. However, like Zapdos, it faces a weakness to status and SR. Umbreon is a worse Mandibuzz, in terms of ability and stats, but it's got Heal Bell and no SR weakness, which makes it equally as good as Mandibuzz in the lower tiers.
  17. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,443
    I think that we should also list the theats that said walls are able to...you know, wall. Yes, it should be obvious what they wall, but my experience tells me that not everyone seems to know what their wall can do. I also think its important for a wall to be capable of handling the more popular threats in the metagame.

    Cresselia, for instance is something I like to use every now and then because she's the best counter to DD Multiscale dragonite. She also counters all types of terrakion (X-scissor doesn't 2hko), landorus, haxorus, and a multitude of offensive pokemon in general. Sure, she doesn't phaze or put up any hazards. She can't wishpass either. But she avoids becoming what other defensive walls usually end up being (a complete momentum killer for you, not your opponent) by being scared of very little. By running hp fire on my (what else?) sun team, cresselia is able to lure in the Scizor part of the Scizor/Rotom due and pick him off without any prediction. She also countered excadrill, and when blaziken was around she took care of him too (mixken lost, and drought was absolutely necessary for SD AdamantKen to stand any chance).

    If you need the team support she has to offer, then lunar dance is the best you're going to get. Your sweeper is near death and won't be able to finish its job? Not a problem. Afte3r cresselia has done what she needed to do, you can have her use lunar dance to give you a fresh pokemon. This is even better now that lunar dance has been fixed to work correctly on PO (it activates before hazards are layed down.)
  18. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,584
    Out of curiosity, what was your Cresselia's spread? It sounds like 252/252 bold, amirite?
  19. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,443
    You'd be correct, fine sir.
  20. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    Cresselia in BW doesn't work... there are many treaths who destroy it.
  21. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,661
    [​IMG]

    Oh cmon, you lot know it was coming. With Hydration and rest, bold nature, max defense and HP, Vaporeon is a spectacular mixed wall in the rain, and it can also hit back quite hard with a rain boosted Scald. Additionally, immunity to status means it can beat out other walls with toxic and burn while they are unable to harm it. Finally, when given Haze it is a hard counter to most stat boosters. It's only really beaten by pokemon with outrageously powerful attacks (CB Haxorus Outrage for example), or strong electric and grass type attacks (specs rotom-W, Jolteon, Celebi, etc).
  22. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    943
    [​IMG]
    Tangrowth is certainly a wall worthy of mention, and arguably the best in the OU Tier. With a Base 100 HP Stat and a Base 125 Defense stat, it's Physical Bulk is unrivaled for the most part. With Regenerator, this thing can literally take a Close Combat from Terrakion, threaten it with the impending Giga Drain/Power Whip and then switch back out and regain the majority of its lost health. With its great capacity to wall Physical Threats, Tangrowth is a great abuser of Regenerator and can wall multiple threats in a game with ease. In addition to this, Tangrowth has an Attack Stat of 100 and a Special Attack Stat of 110, with Hidden Power Ice, Giga Drain and Earthquake, Tangrowth can hit the majority of Physical Threats for Super Effective Damage that ends up taking out a large chunk of their health, while also pressuring their sweep via Leech Seed or halting it completely with Sleep Powder.

    [​IMG]
    Latias is an example of a really good special wall in the current metagame. It's typing is almost perfect for tanking special attacks, it gets reliable recovery in Roost/Recover, as well as a great Base 130 Special Defense Stat. The icing on the cake is Latias's ability to crush all Calm Mind or Nasty Plot sweepers with the tandem of Calm Mind and Roar. Instead of simply getting into a CM War with your opponent until someone gets a crit, Latias can keep all of its boosts and potentially sweep, while your opponent is forced to switch and loses all their boosts, therefore allowing it to be a surefire counter to the majority of Special Set-Up Sweepers.
  23. Xephyr

    Xephyr

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,086
    A list of physical walls without Nidoqueen? Blasphemy!

    People, it's a beast. Terrakion? Lucario? Scrafty? I lol at your pitiful attempts to stop me as I set up whatever hazard I feel like (besides spikes) and smack you with an Earth Power or whatever is necessary.
  24. Eggbert

    Eggbert

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    How does nidoqueen stop scrafty? EP won't take it down in time. It does beat the almost incounterable CB terakion though, so it sounds pretty amazing for that.

    Latias is amazing as it can stop many antistall sweepers like Reuniclus, Virizion, and Celebi. Quagsire is the more annoying physical wall. Looking for a DDnite counter? Once you know its set it will not get past you without a crit.
  25. shinyskarmory

    shinyskarmory

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,542
    Swampert isn't really a wall in a traditional sense, because it has ways to deal meaningful damage outside of status and Seismic Toss. That being said, Swampert is a great tank, and very underused in my opinion.

    Another forgotten wall is Cradily. While its attacking options are...lacking, I have found it to be one of the most rage-inducing walls in the metagame.

    Try using this set on a Sandstorm team:
    [​IMG]
    Cradily @ Leftovers
    Storm Drain
    Impish Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp.A
    >Toxic
    >Recover
    >Energy Ball
    >Ingrain/Ancientpower

    With this set, Cradily reaches 376 HP, 322 Def, and 450 Sp.D in Sandstorm. You can bring Cradily in on any Water type attack because of Storm Drain, and doing it to Politoed is always good for laughs.

    It's worth noting that this set HATES Scizor and strong fighting types, so you need to be careful. Ingrain prevents you from being phazed, making you really hard to stop and giving you extra recovery.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)