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The Weirding Way: Ninjask in NU

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Infernis, May 6, 2013.

  1. Infernis

    Infernis

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    [​IMG]


    61/90/45/50/50/160

    The metagame of NU Stage 9 is damn fast. Ninjask is faster. When you absolutely, positively, have to go first, Ninjask is your insect. It outruns most everything on its first turn in, scarf or no. By the second, there's just no competition. Ninjask is not strong enough to be a standard sweeper, but it's just about the best sweeper-sweeper there is.

    Ninjask might not have the highest attack in the tier, but its STAB moves are very useful against many of the best Pokemon around. In fact, Ninjask can beat the crap out of Sawk, Primeape, Scolipede, Gardevoir, and Jynx. That's right, five of the top eight 'mons from the last month. That Serperior guy everyone's talking about? Yeah, Ninjask kills practically all of those*.

    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 254-302 (87.28 - 103.78%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 305-360 (112.54 - 132.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Scolipede: 223-266 (85.11 - 101.52%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 382-449 (137.41 - 161.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 593-701 (217.21 - 256.77%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 281-331 (91.83 - 108.16%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    *Bulky Subseed sets with HP Rock are problematic, if they're behind a sub already.

    But wait, there's more! Are sun teams giving you problems?

    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sawsbuck: 360-425 (119.2 - 140.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Exeggutor: 610-725 (167.58 - 199.17%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Victreebel: 283-338 (93.7 - 111.92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask Aerial Ace vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Jumpluff: 254-302 (71.95 - 85.55%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shiftry: 811-955 (251.86 - 296.58%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    No longer!

    Ninjask fares somewhat less well against Swift Swimmers, but it can outspeed and hit some of them if you need a ridiculously fast revenge kill to wrest back some momentum.

    252+ Atk Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 180-213 (52.63 - 62.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Seismitoad: 142-168 (37.86 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 360-425 (120.4 - 142.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Ninjask Aerial Ace vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 112-133 (39.02 - 46.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 108-127 (42.85 - 50.39%) -- 93.36% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Trick room teams giving you problems? Well, at x3 speed with a choice scarf, Ninjask can go faster than the rules themselves in order to outspeed anything under the effects of trick room.

    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Beheeyem: 338-398 (95.48 - 112.42%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Duosion: 310-367 (92.81 - 109.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Whapow! Don't use Choice Scarf Ninjask, though. It's a bad idea. Instead, use something like... this!

    [​IMG]
    Ninjask @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 220 Def / 36 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - X-Scissor
    - Aerial Ace
    - Protect
    - U-turn/Baton Pass/Swords Dance

    With no HP investment, Ninjask can switch into Stealth Rock twice if need be. Expert Belt gives him some extra oomph while preserving this quality and allowing for flexibility in moves. I guess you can fake a choice band set, too. The idea is that Ninjask is going to outrun anything without a scarf. With 36 speed EVs, it even outruns Zebstrika. After one turn, it outruns every possible scarfer in the tier sans Swellow and Electrode. It can also beat out practically every Swift Swim or Chlorophyll abuser. The rest of the EVs are poured into defense to maximize physical bulk, since every single priority move (sans Riolu's 4x resisted Vacuum Wave) in the tier is physical. This Ninjask can tank Floatzel's Aqua Jet twice!

    X-Scissor and Aerial Ace are obvious STAB moves. Protect lets Ninjask get a free turn of Speed Boost, which is handy for outrunning scarfers. Even better, using it on the first turn in might convince your opponent that you're using a Baton Pass set or something. It also has the handy side-effect of wasting turns of rain and sun. The last slot is a matter of preference. I use U-Turn to keep Ninjask around if there's an incredibly fast threat on the opposing team that only he can outrun, while still dealing some damage. Because nothing is immune to Bug and Ninjask is practically guaranteed to go first, it's strictly better than a dry switch. Swords Dance is another option if you want to sweep, and has the added benefit of tricking your opponent further into believing you have a baton pass set. Beware, though. Ninjask's defenses are still atrocious, and he can have a hard time getting chances to boost. Switching into a choice-locked Fighting or Grass move is a good way to get one.

    Obviously, there are other sets that one can use. What do you think of the fastest Pokemon in NU?
  2. FLCL

    FLCL
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    [​IMG]
    Ninjask @ Leftovers
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Swords Dance / Flash / X-Scissor

    this wouldn't really be a ninjask discussion thread without its trademark baton pass set. it's literally guaranteed to pass at least one speed boost to a pokemon of your choice though it will often get the chance to get to max speed. one misplay from the opponent can result in a loss since ninjask only needs one turn where it's not pressured by anything to pull of that game-breaking swords dance. the ev's and items are non-negotiable. ninjask does not need any speed so it's much better to invest in defense to survive random ice shards and neutral attacks. leftovers are needed to make multiple substitutes and grab more chances to set up which makes it a mile better than focus sash, which is used by some players. the first three moves are standard for baton pass ninjask, but the last slot depends on the type of team that you're using ninjask on. offensive teams with receivers such as marowak and kangaskhan will want to use swords dance to enable them their sweepers to actually break through walls. however, dedicated baton pass teams usually do not carry a physical sweeper since stored power usually does all the work. in this case, flash or x-scissor can take advantage of the occasional time when ninjask is under a substitute and has nothing else to do.

    i haven't used offensive ninjask since it's really weak to stealth rocks and easily walled, but your expert belt set looks pretty interesting as a revenger killer!
  3. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    Glad to see offensive Ninjask getting some love!

    Ninjask has always been a Pokémon with many possible roles: unfortunately, one of these said roles completely outclassed his others in the eyes of the NU community. In this case, SubSD Baton Pass was and still is Ninjask's most popular set, and for good reason: it can support sweepers with low speed/just not enough attack with ease due to its ability in Speed Boost, being faster than all of the unboosted tier as is, and a great boosting move in Swords Dance. You see Ninjask a lot leading the charge for his team, setting up Protects and Substitutes, and passing his speed to something sort of slow like Golurk or Marowak, or even something already fast with the ability to do major damage with Stored Power, such as Swoobat. It's truly a great set, and can work very well in the right hands when played correctly. There is just one thing, though: in a tier with Stealth Rocks on every team and only a few decent spinners (most of which are not worth a team slot except for spinning), Ninjask's x4 Rock- weakness causes him to lose 50% to those pesky pebbles. This almost completely shoehorns Ninjask into a lead position, which can easily be countered by the right player.

    But, Stage 9 has been amazing for offensive Ninjask. With new threats in Primeape and Jynx being amazing at keeping rocks off the field, as well as old standards like Sawk, Ninjask has the opportunity to switch in and out with impunity, allowing him to easily revenge kill the majority of weather sweepers and near all of the top 10 in usage this month with ease. The E-Belt set suggested in the OP is truly a great one: Ninjask's STABs alone allow it to hit Ludicolo, Jynx, Sawk, Primeape, Gardevoir, Scolipede, and many, many others for SE damage, many times taking them out after Stealth Rocks. A single Protect outspeeds the entirety of weather sweepers as well as all the common sets. With the correct investment, Ninjask can withstand all forms of priority in the tier; as the OP set states, it can take 2 of Floatzel's Aqua Jets, meaning not even attacking first can assure a stop to the ninja bug.

    As far as partners go, Wish support is dandy for any form of offensive Ninjask, from Banded to Scarf (loljk) to the E-Belt set. Alomomola is especially amazing at supporting many Pokémon in the tier, and carries enough defense to tank anything Ninjask doesn't want to (which is seriously almost everything.). Lickilicky is my choice of Wish support though, as it can tank special hits like TBolts from Ampharos and Ice Beams from Gorebyss, and Toxic them, with health left over to Wish/Protect or Wish/Dragon Tail to help Ninjask get in safe and sound.

    Dual Screens is also good if you plan on using offensive Ninjask to sweep instead of revenge kill. In particular, Gardevoir is amazing in this role due to her bulk and speed, as well as access to Momento to assure Ninjask comes in unscathed.

    All in all, offensive Ninjask can damage much of the top contenders in the meta seriously (even being able to OHKO many), but requires the support to pull it off.
  4. Manectrifier

    Manectrifier

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    I posted this set in the NU revival thread a few days ago, and I think it works rather well:

    So yeah, this Ninjask can also pass special attack. As I said, I like this because most opponents just attack Ninjask continually if they see it just to prevent it from having time to pull off a SD. Although this set only has one chance to bp a +1 boost, it can also be used to just pass speed early-game.
  5. casey90

    casey90

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    In regards to the expert belt set listed in the OP, don't you think baton pass would be better suited to U-turn? U-turn is a great move but on a pokemon that is only coming in on very select predicted moves and after a pokemon has fainted (not to mention a hefty rocks weakness), don't you think he'd be better suited with baton pass? He'd still be able to revenge kill the same things, but can now pull double duty and pass the passive speed boost(s) to something after he's gotten said revenge kill. It also has the handy ability to dodge pursuit.
  6. Infernis

    Infernis

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    You know, that's not a bad idea. It even bypasses Sucker Punches, which are usually powerful enough to deal major damage. Even without passing any attack boosts, Ninjask's presence alone would help out an entire team's speed. One could run something like Life Orb Golurk, and it could practically sweep on its own given enough speed. I think I'll try that one out! Instead of having to keep Ninjask around for countering fast things, he can just make a teammate fast enough to do it for him.
  7. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Gotta say that interested me as well. Ninjask can function as a supporter like it always has without sacrificing its offensive utility. Hell, it might even become the new standard for Jasks not on dedicated BP teams.
  8. Hollywood

    Hollywood le toucan has arrived
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    Out of genuine curiosity, has anyone had any success with Choice Banded Ninjask? Using Ninjask in general hasn't much appealed to me, but I feel like if I were to use an offensive Ninjask, I would want to use Choice Band.
  9. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Choice Ninjask suffers from its inability to switch moves and cannot support its team at all. It also cannot Protect, meaning it can get outsped by many +2 pokemon.
  10. Hollywood

    Hollywood le toucan has arrived
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    Well, yeah, I understand that.
    I would expect CB Ninjask to work more as a constant U-turner, giving pretty consistent moment for offensive teams. Yeah, its Stealth Rock weakness is disappointing, but if you can play around that, Ninjask would be incredibly annoying for opponents to handle because due to its fantastic speed, you would be hard-pressed to find a way of hitting it without priority.
  11. Infernis

    Infernis

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    Choice Scarf Pinsir actually hits harder with Megahorn than Ninjask can with a Choice Band and X-Scissor. It's also faster on the first turn. It's not the worst way to use Ninjask, but it's pretty outclassed by other offensive bugs. U-Turn is a great move on Ninjask, I've found, but unfortunately not every set has room for it.
  12. Hollywood

    Hollywood le toucan has arrived
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    Pinsir doesn't get Megahorn. ;-;

    Why do you have to mock him?
  13. Infernis

    Infernis

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    Oh! Golly, I haven't actually used Pinsir yet. One would think... weird. But it still deals a lot of damage with X-Scissor, and gets boosts to that with Moxie.

    252+ Atk Choice Band Ninjask X-Scissor vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 744-876 (272.52 - 320.87%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 620-732 (227.1 - 268.13%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Pinsir has probably the most Mega set of horns in the game... I'm a bit flabbergasted.

    I've been trying out Baton Pass over U-Turn on the ladder, and it's proving fairly effective. The loss of damage while switching out means he can't bring Kadabra to sash or break sashes/sturdy and whatnot while switching, but it's pretty sweet. Getting a SD Samurott to +2 automatically or a CB Golurk to +4 is pretty darn game-changing.

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