All Gens The "What if" thread - Topic #59 : Rotom in ADV

Typhlito

One Active Dawg
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#1
Hey guys! Welcome to the What if thread!

Whatif.jpg

Thanks Cretacerus for the great banner!

So most of us have at least a general idea of every gen. I mean its mechanics and moves are set in stone so its not hard to remember. But what if that wasn't the case? Well in this thread, we are going to find out how the meta will change if there was a certain change. A simple change may be insignificant. However, one small change can also be a game changer.

You could talk about how certain pokemon would improve/worsen from the change, moveset differences, new threats, etc.

The topic will change every week or so so stay tuned!

Topic #1 : Sleep Talk in RBY
Topic #2 : No Special Split in GSC
Topic #3 : Gastrodon in ADV
Topic #4 : No Stealth Rock in DPP
Topic #5 : Fairies and Megas in BW
Topic #6 : Hidden Power in RBY
Topic #7 : Abilities in GSC
Topic #8 : Sp Def Boost to Rocks in ADV
Topic #9 : Team Previews in DPP
Topic #10 : Boom Buff in BW
Topic #11 : Heal Bell in RBY
Topic #12 : No Steel Types in GSC
Topic #13 : U-Turn in ADV
Topic #14 : No Special/Physical Split in DPP
Topic #15 : No EV's and IV's in BW
Topic #16 : Working Sub in RBY
Topic #17 : Hyper Beam Glitch in GSC
Topic #18 : Trick Room in ADV
Topic #19 : Air Balloon in DPP
Topic #20 : Steel Types Neutral to Ghost/Dark in BW
Topic #21 : Rapid Spin/Spikes in RBY
Topic #22 : Calm Mind in GSC
Topic #23 : Locked Moves in ADV
Topic #24 : No Choiced Items in DPP
Topic #25 : Dream Abilities in BW
Topic #26 : Shadow Ball in RBY
Topic #27 : DPP Evos in GSC
Topic #28 : Choice Scarf in ADV
Topic #29 : Full Weather in DPP
Topic #30 : Defog in BW
Topic #31 : Toxic in RBY
Topic #32 : Predictable Phazing Moves in GSC
Topic #33 : Gyro Ball in ADV
Topic #34 : Knock Off Buff in DPP
Topic #35 : Modified Spikes in BW
Topic #36 : Superpower in RBY
Topic # 37 : No NYPC Event Moves in GSC
Topic # 38 : Physical/Special Swap in ADV
Topic #39 : Gems in DPP
Topic #40 : Rotom in BW
Topic #41 : Jeliicent in RBY
Topic #42 : Stackable Spikes in GSC
Topic #43 : Abomasnow in ADV
Topic #44 : Wish Cress/BP Starters in DPP
Topic #45 : Goodra in BW
Topic #46 : Mimic/Disable Permanent in RBY
Topic #47 : Weather Setting Permanent in GSC
Topic #48 : Sucker Punch in ADV
Topic #49 : Magic Bounce in DPP
Topic #50 : Compatible Egg Moves in BW
Topic #51 : Stone Edge in RBY
Topic #52 : Focus Punch in GSC
Topic #53 : Shed Shell in ADV
Topic #54 : Talonflame in DPP
Topic #55 : Hail Def Boost in BW
Topic #56 : Removable Mega Stones in ORAS
Topic #57 : Alola Forms in RBY
Topic #58 : Choice Band in GSC
Topic #59 : Rotom in ADV
 
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Typhlito

One Active Dawg
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#2
So For our first topic, how would the meta change if sleep talk existed in rby?



I'd imagine that it would be much more stall oriented but let us know what you guys think!
 
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#3
FREE ARTICUNO

It's really a question of what would run it. Lax definitely would because BSlam+EQ gives it nice coverage and let it capitalise on its good bulk, Articuno would because its movepool is garbage and it's bulky as fuck. I guess Lap would make a Resttalk set work with Blizzard and either tbolt or bslam. Everything else that I can think of I think would rather make use of its 3rd and 4th slots.

Of course there is one pokemon I haven't talked about- Slowbro. I think it's a really interesting case because with RestTalk it basically runs a Cro set on steroids. The thing is, RestTalk makes it harder to play around, but I don't think it's that effective at allowing it to beat its checks- Razor Leaf and crit Tbolt still destroy it, explosion is still a good way to break it, but chip damage from stuff like Lax and non-crit Tbolt gets shrugged off. Meanwhile you're giving up Twave, when Bro is arguably the best Twave user in the game because of its tendency to lure in Star, etc. Still
 
#4
I feel like gar/eggy would be less effective (obviously); like ortheore said lax, arti, and bro are cool options that would love to have sleep talk. idt it's very splashable on most mons though, because those other three moves are crucial on stuff like jynx etc. guess resttalk zap sounds cool because i think rest is a thing on that, but i don't feel it would alter the meta TOO much. it would be a nice sleep/jynx insurance though because that annoys the shit out of most teams :(
 
#5
I can see it being run on Tauros, Sonrlax, Rhydon and Persian pretty much everytime.

I think the main difference would be simply the fact that you are now able to wall standard Tauros. This brings stall builds to a completely different level since you can now take the route where your goal is to divide your Pokemon so that each one is switching into the opposing Pokemon it can wall. You can also get yourself a sleep talker that can take on the common sleepers even after being put to sleep.

So then I can see stuff like Thunderbolt Tauros and Kingler becoming more used in response to this.
 
#6
Note, assume that Sleep Talk uses the GSC mechanics, meaning it can indeed use Rest normally.

It would change the sleep game a lot, as a decent bunch of Pokemon run Body Slam, Substitute, screens, and other moves as fillers. Use ST to absorb sleep. Nice way to loosen the grip that Gengar and Exeggutor have on the leads.

Slowbro would be insane. Chansey would lose a lot of its value based on absorbing status.

I don't think it fully replaces the instant recovery options though. While you can stay at 100% much of the time, it takes two moveslots. Alakazam won't like that.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
#8
It would change the sleep game a lot, as a decent bunch of Pokemon run Body Slam, Substitute, screens, and other moves as fillers. Use ST to absorb sleep. Nice way to loosen the grip that Gengar and Exeggutor have on the leads.
Just have to say that I hope u meant jynx, since exeggutor is a pretty garbage lead! Jolt and Zam are great too ;] I prefer jolt to gar tbh.

also ye I feel cloyster is the main benefactor of it tbh, tobybro>crobro easily, imo even m9mbro>crobro.
 
#9
Chiming in to say that Zam and Jynx are the two best leads right now and it's not even close

I'm not sure about Cloy going RestTalk, I mean yeah it's bulky enough, but does it really want to give up boom/hbeam?
 
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Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
#10
hb is filler anyway. It's the cost of losing boom to basically hardwall lax/tauros [unless it runs tbolt].

The fact tauros can no longer beat everything with 4 moves is kinda huge imo (at least beat them sufficiently consistently)
 

Jellicent

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Ruiner of Alph
#11
How are we assuming Clamp + Sleep Talk work here? Obviously, if Cloyster's faster, then the Clamped Pokemon can't move that turn, but what about the next one? Would it be similar to Cloy switching out, where the next turn, no matter what ST calls, the opponent can't move? If that's the case, that would be awful to face.

Also, are we assuming you can't use Sleep Talk the turn you wake up? Usually, that's just a dead turn, but if ST happens before the waking up part, that could be extra snazzy.
 
#12
Typhlito, you might want to also detail a bit about mechanics and such with some of these (especially for RBY and GSC), because who knows how Sleep Talk and Hyper Beam would work.

*Edit*

Oh wait, you only get one use of Sleep Talk before you wake up so it doesn't matter.
 
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Typhlito

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#13
Typhlito, you might want to also detail a bit about mechanics and such with some of these (especially for RBY and GSC), because who knows how Sleep Talk and Hyper Beam would work.

*Edit*

Oh wait, you only get one use of Sleep Talk before you wake up so it doesn't matter.
Even so, I'll keep that in mind even though my guess of what the mechanics would be is as good as yours.

How are we assuming Clamp + Sleep Talk work here? Obviously, if Cloyster's faster, then the Clamped Pokemon can't move that turn, but what about the next one? Would it be similar to Cloy switching out, where the next turn, no matter what ST calls, the opponent can't move? If that's the case, that would be awful to face.

Also, are we assuming you can't use Sleep Talk the turn you wake up? Usually, that's just a dead turn, but if ST happens before the waking up part, that could be extra snazzy.
I'd imagine that it would either work only for the turn it was used or for as long as you remain asleep since i bet it may say it fails the turn it wakes up. so if this is the case, it wouldn't be very reliable but it could still be used. As for the the turn you wake up, you wake up at the end of the turn so you should be able to use the move again before waking.
 

Typhlito

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#14
I know im double posting but I am interested to hear what you guys have to say on how this change would affect other tiers such as uu and ubers since the conversion focused on ou.
 
#15
Well in Ubers I'd say you won't see RestTalk much since M2 and Mew all have access to recovery- they could still run it, I just don't think it'd be common. I guess you'd see it on the likes of Lax, Cuno etc to take sleep.

UU is a whole other ball game- Golduck is pretty ridiculous and I could definitely see it running a Cro set, since all it sacrifices is the possibility of playing for freeze. In fact half the tier are bulky waters that would make good use of Sleep Talk. I'm not that experienced with the tier tho
 

Typhlito

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#16
Ok so time for our next "what if" topic. What if the special split never occurred in gsc?

That would mean that a pokemon's sp attack and sp defense will become one. To keep things consistent, pokemon from gsc will have a special that is equal to their sp attack since most rby mons transitioned their stats this way.



So how would this change the meta as we know it? Who will improve/weaken from the change? Post your thoughts and dont forget to include other tiers besides ou!
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
#17
That's a really cool thing, but I'm gonna tag Crystal_ since they made a version called RBY 251 - RBY with GSC mons added, which meant including the special split but in reverse I guess, so many they can contribute to what's the most consistent method of doing it, or bring their spreadsheet showing how it changes. As to actual changes.. well, probably sucks to be lax! That 65 Special is not doing it any favours!
 
#18
Blissey is easily the biggest beneficiary from this, if it weren't for Blissey, the Electrics would become god tier but as it stands you've now got one of the fattest pokemon suddenly sporting respectable offensive power, and as such I could see it filling the void left by Lax's decline. This also means status becomes less important because you've obviously got a Heal Bell user being one of the best pokemon in the game. Of course there's still plenty of opportunities for physical attackers- those Blisseys aren't going to beat themselves up!
 

Typhlito

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#19
Blissey is easily the biggest beneficiary from this, if it weren't for Blissey, the Electrics would become god tier but as it stands you've now got one of the fattest pokemon suddenly sporting respectable offensive power, and as such I could see it filling the void left by Lax's decline. This also means status becomes less important because you've obviously got a Heal Bell user being one of the best pokemon in the game. Of course there's still plenty of opportunities for physical attackers- those Blisseys aren't going to beat themselves up!
well remember that I said that their sp will be equal to their sp attack so blissey would have a lower special of 75 even though its still better than snorlax.
 
#22
Blissey would be an absolute monster if it copied its spec def stat.

Also, I don't know why they even bothered nerfing Articuno. Giving back its 348 Special Attack would make it a bit less more viable (but just a bit less)

Snorlax would suffer a big nerf if its Special Defense was 228 instead of 318...
 
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Jellicent

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Ruiner of Alph
#24
Alakazam becomes much better again, but even scarier is Espeon. Growth makes it quite a monster, especially since it can pass those boosts off. On the subject of boosters, Amnesia Clefable looks pretty viable imo. Slowbro might be able to function similarly to how it did RBY, but with less crits to worry about. Jolteon has an easier time setting up and passing Agilities vs specially-based Pokemon. It could also set up some Growths more easily on that note. Really, anything with Amnesia or Growth is gaining something here.