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All Gens The "What if" thread - Topic #59 : Rotom in ADV

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Typhlito, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Century Express

    Century Express
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    I'd love to use Specs or Scarf Latios in this kind of metagame. With the exception of Tyranitar, it's dangerous against pretty much everything, especially when you lure Metagross | Gardevoir | Diancie | Scizor, making your teambuilding more flexible for some specific purposes (like getting free Spikes with Ferrothorn or Skarmory without hesitating against some random Fire | Fight coverage, or helping CM Clefable breaking its checks on the long run). Azumarill should be a bit dangerous, although you can play around it moderately well with Regen Grass-types or Rotom-Wash. Weavile is an interesting case, you can't use use Scizor as your failsafe (or Lopunny to pivot around the resisted Knock Off), but on the flipside, people should use Azumarill | Keldeo more often than usual to counterplay it. Yes, it's a great buff for Weavile, i don't see it getting overpowered.

    I don't think it influences Chansey's usage overall, it's just a convenient buff for choiced Lati@s and Thundurus.
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
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  2. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Active Dawg
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    Alright on to the next one. What if Alola forms existed in RBY?

    [​IMG]

    So in this scenario, both their base and alolan forms are available. They would also retain their typings even though steel/dark does not exist yet. As for their moves, they can have access to any move they currently can use that is different from their normal counterparts that is available in RBY. So for example, while their dark/steel typing's exist, there are no stab moves available for them. So how would this change up the metagame if at all? Would new threats rise while old ones fall? You tell me!

    edit: Resistances ad immunities for steel/dark will be the same as they are in gsc
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  3. OrangeGuru

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    So as long as I understand this one, I think the Dark-type Alolan forms would have a niche with how prevalent and dominant Psychics are. Raticate-A at least still gets normal STAB like Body Slam and Hyper Beam, but can also punish stuff like Zam. Muk-A probably would function similarly to how it does now as being a great psychic switch-in - although no pursuit if I'm reading correctly (only weakness being Ground, so maybe Rhydon and Golem become more popular?). Persian-A gets the worst end of it because of no STAB at all, so it probably wouldn't be used over normal Persian who gets good STAB and high crit Slash.

    Also I would say that Raichu-A would rise to the top pretty quickly. Electric / Psychic STABs are great to hit stuff like Cloyster, Lapras, Slowbro, Starmie and even Zapdos, while still nailing everything that Psychics could spam. 110 base speed leaves Raichu-A only outsped by Zam, Jolteon (not a big threat), Starmie, and tied with Tauros and Gengar
  4. Afti

    Afti

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    Raichu-A seems like a solid, straightforward upgrade. It's Raichu with slightly more Special, a Psychic type - and with it STAB Psychic - and a nice Speed tier bump. Psychic/Thunderbolt/Surf/Thunder Wave sounds legit.

    Muk-A might work (despite its garbo Special) just because it's the only one of the new Dark-types that looks like it stands a chance of doing anything with the cool Psychic immunity. It forces Alakazam out, spams Body Slam, and explodes on something. I wanna say it might actually make decent use of Fire Blast, come to think of it? Muk's Body-Slam-all-day-every-day gameplan and Earthquake weakness makes physical Normals and Goldon the obvious switchins, and if you can get Snorlax or Tauros to switch into a Fire Blast that might be potentially advantageous. Fire Blast's accuracy isn't great, 30% isn't really a magnificent burn rate, and you do risk thawing things... but you're going to attract a lot of Normal-types what run Earthquake, and forcing them to switch into Fire Blast lets you make Muk slightly less of a soft target for them. I think it'd probably be better than Raticate just because Raticate is so damned frail - and while Raticate does have Normal STAB backing its Body Slam, it's still not really scaring much with its 71/40/77 offenses.

    Ninetales-A's Fairy typing is functionally worthless - it resists Twineedle and the Dark attacks that don't exist, and it's immune to Dragon Rage - but it might be kinda cute, because it's a fast Ice with good Special. Shame about the movepool, though - Agility might be useful, but your entire Special movepool is Blizzard/Ice Beam. Good stats, cool typing, desperately needs access to workable coverage moves.

    Golem is basically strictly worse; it loses its Ice weakness, but it's still not exactly gonna take Blizzards well given its Special stat, and it loses STAB Earthquake, downgrades from an Electric immunity to just a resistance, and gains a 4x Ground weakness in exchange for... a bunch of special attacks it can't use. I was gonna say "at least it gets Thunder Wave" but it actually doesn't. Yeah.

    Marowak, Persian, and Sandslash have cool typings that they can't really exploit at all. Exeggutor gets access to Earthquake and a slightly stronger Explosion, but it's even slower and it trades its Psychic type for Dragon, which provides a bunch of redundant resistances, a neutrality to Fire, (which is a nonentity in gen I, outside of hypothetical Alolan Muk spamming weak-ass Fire Blasts whenever it expects something that runs Earthquake to switch in) and a really damaging 4X Ice weakness.

    Dugtrio is weird. It loses Speed, but it still has a pretty solid speed tier, and it hits quite a bit harder than vanilla Dugtrio. It's a little bulkier, and Steel gives it a lot of fun resistances, but it's still way too frail. Probably a minor threat, but I can see tech Dugtrio-A in tournament games occasionally giving someone a headache, because it is legitimately sorta scary, but isn't actually good enough to be common enough to be something you think to prepare for. Losing Slash stinks, though.
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  5. HC

    HC

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    Yeah can't see Alolan forms being fantastic tbh.

    I think the two biggest niches will be given to Muk & Raichu though.

    Although Dark typing doesn't Muk give anything move slot-wise, and poison being a garbage typing as it is. Invulnerability to psychic is pretty incredible. I could see Body Slam/Rest/Explosion/(Sludge/Mega Drain/Fire Blast/Thunder) being ran. First three moves need no explanation but basically allow it to cockblock Alakazam entirely who can only Seismic Toss. Sludge is stab which hits a lot of things neutrally but tbh is crap. Mega Drain allows Muk to do some damage to Goldon being a 3HKO on both of them. FBlast for Eggy basically, but meh on the burn chance. Thunder purely to Paralyze Tauros/Lax and for reasonable damage on Lapras/Starmie.

    Meanwhile, I could see Raichu developing a pretty great niche as a lead. 110 speed is fantastic for the meta, while being psychic type is always a boon. The selling point is access to Sing, which while being only 55% accurate, still works in Raichu's favour especially when combined with having TWave as well, preventing your opp from wanting to switch out. Thunder + Psychic are both great stabs as we know, nothing wants to switch into them for fear of Paralysis or Special drops.

    Edit: Muk-Alola doesn't get Mega Drain or Thunder
  6. Enigami

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    The way I'd see it:
    --OU Viable--
    Alola Raichu - Can't see it not making OU. Ties with Gengar for fastest sleeper, threatens a crit OHKO on Gengar, and Psychic resistance over Psychic weakness could make the 5% reduction in sleep accuracy more than worth it to get sleep against Zam and Psychic Starmie leads. Psychic resistance also goes a long way in improving general utility compared to normal Raichu, even giving it a shot a beating any Exeggutor 1v1 using Seismic Toss and forcing a boom from basic Dual Powder + Psychic + Boom Exeggutors. Speed-tieing Tauros instead of being outsped is icing on the cake.

    --OU Niche--
    Alola Sandslash - Actually somewhat legit with its 4x Ice resistance, 2x Psychic Resistance and Water/Electric neutrality. No physical STAB, but Swords Dance can make up for that and Ice-types are more worried about 4x Ice resistance than STAB on Rock Slide. Psychic+Normal+Grass resistance+STAB Blizzard makes it a great Exeggutor switch in, and the Psychic resistance can help it set up in front of Zam and Starmie as well (probably better if they're para'd first though). It'd probably be the best SD mon of OU.

    Alola Muk - With it Rest can wall Chansey, Zam, Starmie if it gets lucky, and Gengar/Exeggutor unless they boom, but its super limited coverage makes it easily taken advantage of.

    Alola Dugtrio - Steel resistances mostly give it a leg up on normal Dug I think, actually being able to switch into Zapdos' Drill Peck and (barely) beat it means Dug-A could be an alternative to GolDon for some teams. Psychic resistance + Thunder Wave immunity + Alola Raichu potentially becoming a major OU lead could make it become a lead itself, though its lack of Slash makes Exeggutor much more of a headache.

    Alola Raticate - Might not be good enough for OU, but even with 71 Attack, Swords Dance +150 BP STAB+Psychic Immunity is still pretty scary, and Super Fang can always take a hefty chunk out of anything.

    Alola Exeggutor - Utterly fails as an Exeggutor alternative, but Psychic neutrality + Swords Dance + Earthquake could make it work as an alternative SD Victreebel instead.

    --UU--
    Alola Golem - Terrible in OU, but losing Ground typing in UU isn't all bad. Full counter to Persian, STAB Water and Grass attacks aren't always instant death, and best of all Articuno's Blizzard doesn't OHKO and Rock Slide still OHKO's back.

    Alola Ninetales - Only usable moves are Ice Beam, Blizzard, Hyper Beam, Hypnosis, Agility and maybe Tail Whip. Could be deadly in UU due to fewer resists/less recovery/less lead competition, but too many things wall it in OU.

    Alola Persian - Fastest sleeper with Psychic immunity and Amnesia, and that's literally all it has going for it. Its only real attacks are Slash and Thunderbolt. Without BubbleBeam, Gol(-A)Don completely shut it down, and without STAB on Slash, it isn't terribly threatening to Electric resists. Gimmick in OU, tricky to make work most everywhere else Electric-, Ground- and Grass-types exist.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
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  7. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Active Dawg
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    Alright! Heres our next topic. What if Choice Band existed in GSC?

    [​IMG]

    Even though in battle items made their debut in GSC, very few of them were good enough to use besides leftovers and a handful of other items. But what if choice band existed in GSC as well? What pokemon could you see running such an item? Would it change the metagame at all? Would new threats rise while old threats fall? You tell me!
  8. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Machamp wouldn't be the worst user ever, makes it easier to spam cross chops and rock slides when you don't have to set up

    It's hard to see much else being able to use it viably because skarmory is just such a significant deterrent to so many things and marowak has thick club to outclass it

    Could maybe see use on a gimmicky explosion team, or on gengars that really really hate raikou

    Dragonite is perhaps a viable possibility, give its hidden power/dynamicpunch/body slam some serious weight behind it while still threatening thunder to scare skarmory

    But in general leftovers is just so crucial for a meta with such longevity
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  9. OrangeGuru

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    Texas Cloverleaf pretty much said everything that caught my eye. Out of everything I looked at, CB Champ was the only notable user I could see being relevant. Being able to have an attack boost behind STAB Cross Chop would be really useful in a meta infested with Lax. Most other calcs I did weren't super notable (although I could have been doing it wrong lol). I think CB Hera would still prefer to run RestTalk and CB Ttar could maybe be a thing, but even Dynamicpunch fails to do much to Lax and of course being locked into a 50% accurate move is less than ideal

    The main problem with CB in gen 2 would be the lack of power with as many curse users as there are. A +1 defense Lax (among other curse users) takes very little from the CB users I considered. If the opponent curses on the switch to the CB user, then it can probably survive most hits

    And CB Gar would become a nice tech I think (similar to Thief). Could probably be run over leftovers on the current "assassin" set (with Explosion) on certain teams, considering Gengar is frail enough that leftovers doesn't really benefit it too often
  10. Jellicent

    Jellicent
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    Aerodactyl might be the real winner. It's more of a hit n run Pokemon anyway, though the low BP of its STAB moves always left it feeling unimpressive. CB lets it hit some notable 2HKOs, though.

    +1 Aerodactyl Wing Attack vs. Exeggutor: 224-264 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Aerodactyl Wing Attack vs. Machamp: 234-276 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Aerodactyl Hidden Power Rock vs. Zapdos: 260-306 (67.8 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. Raikou: 267-314 (69.7 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 211-248 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- 97.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 199-234 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 36.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    It also threatens to OHKO the likes of Gengar, Forretress (with FB), and Heracross. It doesn't mind the move restriction or lack of Lefties as much since it rarely stays in long anyway. CB would allow it to be a pretty good revenge killer / cleaner, though there are still a number of things in OU that can shrug off any of its attacks (Snorlax, Marowak, Suicune...)
  11. Lavos

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    choolio IGLESIAS (Dodrio) @ Choice Band
    - Double-Edge
    - Drill Peck
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Body Slam / Hyper Beam

    cb dodrio would be the perfect combination of speed, attack, and high base power stab moves. champ is too slow and relies too heavily on coverage moves, heracross only has megahorn, and aerodactyl is burdened by shit like wing attack. 100 base speed means ties with zap/cruel/zard and outruns almost everything else, notable exceptions being kou/gar. double edge is insane and 2hkos most non resists, drill peck gives decent stab coverage + no recoil and is a generally safe move, hp ground for ttar/lix/don. last move is optional, body slam could be nice because it's stronger than peck with no recoil and you get chance to para checks, but hyper beam could be a nice game ending move when you need to reach a little further. plus it's cool B)
    some calcs (open)
    +1 Dodrio Double-Edge vs. Snorlax: 270-318 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Dodrio Double-Edge vs. Zapdos: 230-271 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Dodrio Double-Edge vs. Cloyster: 136-160 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 86.5% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    +1 Dodrio Drill Peck vs. Exeggutor: 308-362 (78.3 - 92.1%) -- 33.3% chance to OHKO after Spikes
    +1 Dodrio Hidden Power Ground vs. Tyranitar: 153-180 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Dodrio Drill Peck vs. Gengar: 191-225 (59.1 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 Dodrio Double-Edge vs. Suicune: 188-222 (46.6 - 55%) -- 99.8% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    lol --> +1 Dodrio Hyper Beam vs. Raikou: 309-364 (80.6 - 95%) -- 51.3% chance to OHKO after Spikes

    skarm is like the 1 mon that dodrio can't touch, but that goes for almost every band user discussed so far, it can be a pain to remove but firelax or lk would scare it and there are plenty of ways to bait skarm (maybe cb champ would be a good partner?) so who cares. i could see a skarm bait curseboomlax + band spam team being decent. defensively, dodrio offers nothing besides a ground immune, so it could be hard to fit on a team if you care about that stuff. it also barely even scratches steelix, but that's not hard to pressure, plus spikes. if gsc had choice band i would see dodrio as a relevant threat, or at the very least encouragement to bring a normal resist
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  12. Enigami

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    As pointed out so far Choice band doesn't really have great value in GSC, though that turns around really quickly if pre-damage were implemented in GSC and allowed in OU. Just going to cover the usable Flying-types though, grounded 1 HP Flail/Reversal abusers are countered hard by spikes.

    Dodrio calcs (open)
    Choice Band Dodrio Flail (200 BP) vs. Snorlax: 528-528 (100.9 - 100.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Choice Band Dodrio Flail (200 BP) vs. Suicune: 367-367 (91 - 91%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
    Choice Band Dodrio Flail (200 BP) vs. Skarmory: 160-160 (48 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery <-- just needs a bit of chip
    Choice Band Dodrio Flail (200 BP) vs. Steelix: 122-122 (34.5 - 34.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery <-- can be worn down
    Choice Band Dodrio Flail (200 BP) vs. Forretress: 160-160 (45.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery <-- can be worn down
    Choice Band Dodrio Flail (200 BP) vs. Tyranitar: 191-191 (47.3 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery <-- no longer a switch-in
    Choice Band Dodrio Drill Peck vs. Gengar/Misdreavus: 191-225 (59.1 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery <-- Still a check, but Ghosts still have to be careful
    Pretty sure CB 1 HP Dodrio becomes broken.

    Gyarados calcs (open)
    Choice Band Gyarados Reversal (200 BP) vs. Blissey through Reflect: 744-744 (104.3 - 104.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Choice Band Gyarados Reversal (200 BP) vs. +1 Snorlax: 516-516 (98.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
    Choice Band Gyarados Reversal (200 BP) vs. Steelix: 356-356 (100.8 - 100.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Choice Band Gyarados Reversal (200 BP) vs. Raikou: 354-354 (92.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
    Choice Band Gyarados Reversal (200 BP) vs. Skarmory: 234-234 (70.2 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Gyarados Reversal (200 BP) vs. Suicune: 268-268 (66.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Gyarados Flail (200 BP) vs. Zapdos: 327-327 (85.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    CB 1 HP Gyarados would be less broken because slower / doesn't smash through everything, but still really scary.

    Scyther calcs (open)
    Choice Band Scyther Reversal (200 BP) vs. Blissey through Reflect: 680-680 (95.3 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
    Choice Band Scyther Reversal (200 BP) vs. +1 Snorlax: 474-474 (90.6 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
    Choice Band Scyther Reversal (200 BP) vs. Suicune: 245-245 (60.7 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Scyther Reversal (200 BP) vs. Skarmory: 214-214 (64.2 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Scyther Reversal (200 BP) vs. Steelix: 326-326 (92.3 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
    Choice Band Scyther Reversal (200 BP) vs. Zapdos: 150-150 (39.1 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Scyther Wing Attack vs. +1 Heracross: 336-396 (92.5 - 109%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
    Choice Band Scyther Wing Attack vs. Gengar: 143-169 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 79.7% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    CB 1 HP Scyther is pretty nasty too and possesses greater speed. Edit: Scyther also learns Swords Dance too, which makes it a bit less predictable and potentially even scarier (though obviously it can't run CB with it). Fortunately it can't learn Baton Pass and Reversal at the same time, that'd be horrifying considering Scyther learns Swords Dance & Agility and most phazers can't switch into Scyther.

    Crobat calcs (open)
    Choice Band Crobat Flail (200 BP) vs. Jolteon: 325-325 (97.5 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
    Choice Band Crobat Flail (200 BP) vs. Suicune: 215-215 (53.3 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Crobat Flail (200 BP) vs. Snorlax: 308-308 (58.8 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Crobat Hidden Power Flying vs. Gengar: 146-172 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 90.7% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Crobat Steel Wing vs. Tyranitar: 134-158 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Crobat Hidden Power Fighting vs. Steelix: 86-102 (24.3 - 28.8%) -- 56.3% chance to 4HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    Crobat Hidden Power Fire vs. Skarmory: 102-120 (30.6 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Crobat Hidden Power Fire vs. Steelix: 107-126 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 35.9% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    While not quite as impressive as the others, CB 1 HP Crobat would be a great cleaner with its 130 Speed. Skarmory and Steelix still counter it though, and even though HP Fire with lucky crits might be able to break them, it is a really bad move for Crobat to be locked into.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
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  13. Bughouse

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    I think the real winner of CB being in GSC is Skarm who becomes more useful in general, since if you're NOT carrying it, some of these CB mons actually are quite threatening.
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  14. sulcata

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    Overall paralysis just becomes a lot better, as if it wasn't good already. Maybe Reflect would be more common to combat it. CB Rhydon 1-2HKOs everything except Skarm and Suicune (hp bug for egg).

    Heracross actually can run CB. Skarmory dies to CB Snorlax Self-Destruct + a little chip damage, of course that means they'll probably be scouting for it much more frequently. Then again, what scouts a +1 lax? Zapdos is still an issue if they have both, but you can try to explode on that or something. Hidden Power Rock will actually 2HKO Zapdos most of the time, so you can sleep it, or ideally paralyze it, on a switch with Exeggutor. If it switches out after the first Hidden Power Rock, you're free to spam Megahorn since it'll 2HKO the paralyzed Zapdos upon switching in.
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  15. Afti

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    Choice Band + RestTalk seems like an interesting combo? GSC Rest resets your sleep counter when called by Sleep Talk... so with a little bit of luck, a sleeping CB mon gets to enjoy RestTalk shenanigans with a "free" +1 Attack.

    You have to play a bit conservatively to get it ready to go - you need to lock into Sleep Talk, which means you need to either Rest and switch out immediately or absorb an opponent's Lovely Kiss or something - but once you manage to get Choice-locked Sleep Talk up and running you have a really nice combination of offensive prowess and sustainability.

    First thing that comes to mind as doing this well would of course be Snorlax, because Snorlax totally needs another set. It's durable enough to last between random Rests and has the offensive presence to do work with the CB boost.
  16. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Active Dawg
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    Alright! Heres our new topic. What if Rotom existed in ADV?

    [​IMG]

    So in this scenario, rotom and all of its forms will exist in adv. They will also have access to their signature moves. This includes air slash for rotom-fan and leaf storm for rotom-mow regardless if they didnt exist at the time. Another twist that I will throw in there is that you are free to discuss how the rotom forms will change the meta if at all in either their gen 4 ghost/electric typing or modern typing's since there will probably be a difference in both scenarios. So how would rotom change the metagame? Would certain forms do well while others fall into obscurity? Would new threats rise while others fall? You tell me!
  17. Bughouse

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    Since adv has no sand spdef boost, this is huge. Think about how TTar would pursuit trap Rotom in DPP but increase how much damage Hydro Pump does to it first by 50%. Rotom-wash, and to a lesser extent rotom-mow, become even more excellent spin blockers than they were in DPP since they just destroy Tyranitar. Rotom-mow's advantage being the prevalence of swampert. Due to better bulk and no psychic weakness too, they don't have to worry about being ohkoed by starmie!

    It's also an electric type that dugtrio can't trap, yet isn't weak to rock like Zapdos. It even has sub pain split for recovery against Blissey.

    All in all, a super versatile mom useful against many builds depending on the set.

    It's still very good with the non-ghost typings I'm sure, but I find the ghost more interesting just due to how naturally it replaces gengar on many teams.
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  18. DSM01

    DSM01

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    Electric/Ghost: Combines strong elements of defensive Gengar and Zapdos. Wisp is great, Pain Split gives it semi-reliable recovery, and it checks threats like Metagross, CB/DD Salamence, Gyarados, Snorlax, and Heracross. Losing Shadow Ball doesn't really matter except vs. Celebi. Hydro and Leaf Storm are both good choices while Blizzard can threaten Celebi/Zapdos.

    Electric/Water: Probably the best non-Ghost typing. Very useful as a bulky water that's immune to Spikes and has Wisp. Can potentially go offensive as Rotom-Frost as well.
  19. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan

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    ADV has always been lacking in reliable spinblockers. Gengar is great and all but it's a bit on the frail side and the psychic weakness hurts it against a lot of common spinners, and after that, looking at the ghosts in the tier gets pretty sad. Ghost rotom has a lot of the advantages that gengar has over other ghosts. Good offensive power, levitate and a cool disruptive movepool, without some of the disadvantages. Its bulk definitely would come in handy and make it a far more reliable spin blocker. Having an actual STAB attack in thunderbolt is huge, and finally the added bulk and access to hydro pump would give pursuit tar a much harder time taking it down. Its speed leaves a bit to be desired in comparison to gengar, but rotom would give spikes teams a spinblocker that could actually be relied upon against starmie and claydol.

    As far as movesets go, I can see both bulky and offensive sets being quite viable, with defensive sets employing pain split, will-o-wisp, thunderbolt and maybe hydro pump for the 3hko on tyranitar. This would make for an incredibly reliable spin blocker and pivot with the ability to spread burns.

    Offensive sets could make for a very unique combination between gengar and offensive electric types. Will-o-wisp sets it apart from other electrics by putting a lot of pressure on snorlax and grounds. Hydro pump from max spA rotom is also an easy 2hko on tyranitar, and like zapdos it doesn't care about dugtrio because of the ground immunity. Finally it has just enough speed to outpace things like heracross and suicune which would definitely come in handy with its typing.

    In short, the 4th gen ghost rotom would absolutely be OU material, and probably at least one of the top 5 pokemon in the tier.

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