Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]

[dice]

is genesect really b+? i almost never use it. checking mewtwo / darkrai / rayquaza is cool, but it cannot revenge kill mmx, and the scarf set cannot truly shine without sticky web support to allow it to revenge kill geoxerneas. i would drop it to b.

i question whimsicott in b as it is practically a worse ferrothorn in rain. ferrothorn can also effectively check xerneas just as well in rain while being able to provide hazards and more utility. there are minor reasons that whimsicott could possibly be better, but in general whimsicott is an inferior ferrothorn if used with kyogre. opportunity cost just comes into play and it has a limited amount of teams which can fit it, so i don't think it should be ranked so highly. c+ or b- i reckon.

i would raise arceus-dark to b or b+ as it is just a fantastic stallbreaker and mewtwo check to boot.

possibly drop arceus-steel to c+ since it's ridiculously hard to fit on teams effectively

 

[brokenwings]

Nice update, I like and agree with a lot of the changes but I'll post some of my thoughts.


Clefable: B- > B+, Clefable has an interesting role on defensive-oriented teams in that it provides both a cleric, and an extremely reliable check to CM Arceus forms and Geoxern, which gives it a distinct niche over the other defensive fairies such as Sylveon and cleric Xerneas. Sylveon does have more of an offensive presence, and handles Palkia a bit better thanks to its increased bulk, but Clefable's ability to serve as a fail-safe against some of the most dangerous sweepers in the tier is a big advantage that should not be downplayed. It's also worth noting that Clefable can run a physical set and completely counter Ekiller, being the only cleric that can do such. It is Gengar food, but I'd say it has enough strengths over the other defensive fairies to warrant a rise.

Arceus-Rock: B- > B or B+, Good answers to Ho-Oh are few and far between, and this is probably the best. Easy fit on pretty much any balance / stall build that needs something to deal with Ho-Oh and Yveltal. It's kinda niche, but I'd say it's comparable to Grassceus or Poisonceus, if anything. Very good support form, and I hear the CM set is decent too.

Victini: B > C+, I feel like this is a bit high. It's a cool Xern check on sun, but it's pretty hard to fit on most teams compared to some of the other stuff in B like Ferro / Heatran / TTar etc. The fact that it can't take most priority means it's usually pretty easy to revenge kill after it takes out Xern in Trick Room, too. C+ seems reasonable.

Arceus-Steel: B- > C+, I agree with dice, it's too hard to fit on a team and doesn't really have much to offer over other steel-types, considering it can't even check Geoxern or anything else that well.

Arceus-Flying: C > C- or D, Yeah, this thing just sucks. I really can't think of a reason to justify using it on any serious team. Compared to the other stuff in C, this really doesn't have a usable niche.

Reshiram: C > C-, See above.

 

[orch]

I strongly disagree with Reshiram. It's actually not that bad. While it competes Charizard-Y kinda, but what sets Charizard-Y and Reshiram apart:

Reshiram gets better and stronger coverage (think Draco Meteor and Stone Edge with LO), Eleceus check, and slightly weaker (assuming LO vs Drought) Fire attack, which become stronger under Sun (sunnybeam/drought support is good for Resh). Plus, water attack is neutral (!!) vs Reshiram, so you can just stay in Kyogre's surf or weaker attacks and sunny day and smash it with Solarbeam. Reshiram's invaluable resistances and neutrals really set it apart from Charizard-Y, and the fact that it actually can beat Ho-Oh easily makes it much more appealing. Charizard-Y has a really bad issue with Ho-Oh, since it's usually the defogger itself or require defog support which opens up opportunity for Ho-Oh to come in unimpeded and punish you heavily for it. Reshiram doesn't have that, and Defog/Spin support is not mandatory for Reshiram as it is for Charizard-Y.

In fact, I think that Reshiram is one of most underrated pokemon in this metagame. It just demolishes most of current balance archetype easily, and it still has respectable bulk to take down few mons from offense team. I think that Reshiram should be B-.

Dice's suggestions echo what I've been saying since the freaking beginning of XY Ubers.

e: Put Goth in S already. Synergy is irrelevant when all of your attacks miss anyways.

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Victini: B > C+, I feel like this is a bit high. It's a cool Xern check on sun, but it's pretty hard to fit on most teams compared to some of the other stuff in B like Ferro / Heatran / TTar etc. The fact that it can't take most priority means it's usually pretty easy to revenge kill after it takes out Xern in Trick Room, too. C+ seems reasonable.

You might be forgetting that victini is one of the better mewtwo checks. Not only is it a full stop to stall2, it is also one of the rare mons that can reliably switch in on mewtwo (though rocks are annoying) and win 1v1, and thus is a counter by the ubers definition. Other things that "stop" mewtwo are things like heatran/arceus dark/tyranitar/dialga/some other stuff, but what people do not realise is that these pokemon flat out lose to calm mind mewtwo, which I (and I know others think this too, dice comes to mind) think is mmy's best and most effective (offensive) set. Combine this with the fact that it is a good xerneas check as well (checks life orb variants pretty well too!) and it becomes a mon with even more utility. It can grab momentum with uturn pretty easily as well, so it isnt completely useless against things that wall it, such as giro. If anything, I think it should be moved up instead of down, but since its definitely not on the same level as the other b+ mons, its perfectly fine where its at atm.

 

[Dilwar]

Megas are grouped with their base forme and other megas because they function as different sets of a single mon. Separating MM2X from stalltwo on the viability rankings would be like separating CM Xern from Geo Xern.

Meh. OU separate Zard Y and Zard X so I don't see why we shouldn't. I think the distinction between CM Xern and Geoxern is smaller than MMX and Mewtwo, MMX being an entirely different typing and all.

 

[Fireburn]

Final updates since ORAS is here

Dialga A -> A+

Arceus-Steel B- -> C+

Arceus-Dark B- -> B

I can post justification if requested but ORAS is here so my mind is there atm.

Anyways this thread will now be locked and serve as a record of the XY metagame. I'll make a new thread for ORAS viability rankings in a week or two once the metagame has had a bit of time to settle.