Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]

[Rosen]

Do you know who should be ranked but isn't? Chandelure. It hard counters Genesect and Blaziken, cripples a plethora of things with Will-O-Wisp ranging from Normal Arceus to Mega Kang to Zekrom to Mega Mewtwo X, all of which it outspeeds while running 176 Speed Timid Natured Choice Scarf set. It also learns trick, which can fuck over many setup mons ranging from Xerneas to Blaziken. It's pretty versatile in this tier, and has a lot of semi-niche and not-so-niche roles it can fill.

The only reason I'm bringing this up is Gothitelle is ranked and Chandy is not, and Chandy is arguably much better in this tier than the slower, weaker, worse-typed Goth, whose only calling card is Shadow Tag, and is outclassed by Wobbuffett and Gengar in this role.

 

[Hack]

No, it loses to Knock Off Blaze, E-killer is faster and KO's you before you land a burn- if you are scarfed then your best bet is sun boosted overheat, which is a dream scenario that isn't reliable. Zekrom and Kanga are are similar, you get destroyed before you can move unless you are scarfed. Choice locked Will-o-wisp allows you to land a burn before you take a hit, but your defense still leaves you very low so it's not exactly hard countering stuff anyway. As for Genesect, it has fallen out of grace and is very easy to handle.

oh yeah Chandy doesn't get tag rofl

 

[C AllStar]

And Chandelure doesn't even get Shadow Tag...

 

[WoShiDavid]

Shouldn't Omastar be ranked somewhere here? I mean I'm not well-versed in Ubers but it doesn't take a genius to know that Kyogre is everywhere and Drizzle + Swift Swim + Shell Smash = Sweep if played right, even with the weather nerf

 

[PISTOLERO]

Omastar bla bla bla etc..... = Sweep

Sweep lol i almost died

 

[WoShiDavid]

Sweep lol i almost died

Well... didn't realize what I did until now lol damn :P But getting back on topic, Omastar should be ranked SOMEwhere at least

 

[Minority]

Well it was reject for analysis so unless it somehow gets passed I think it should stay off. Victini has yet to be ranked and it looks like it is going to pass so why not rank that. I previously recommended C+ as a start but I think I'll just go straight C. Can anyone else who has used it recommend a higher or lower rank.

 

[zf]

the reason that roost+toxic resh isn't very good is because it lacks a distinct defensive niche. checking support arceus formes is something many mons with toxic+healing move and decent special bulk can do. i guess checking eleceus is neat but it's really only that I can give it in terms of checking offensive mons.

maybe it's me overrating rest in the current metagame, but I do think a toxic staller prone to toxic is worse than one that can rest off status, which is the case with sdef kia and reshiram. now you mandated yourself heal bell on your team, which is going to make compression utterly ridiculous as you have so many glaring weaknesses. another blatant non-fact in the whole palkia vs reshiram is the whole deterring xerneas from setting up debate. I don't see thunder wave or roar in reshirams movepool and just as offensive resh can do a lot of damage to xerneas in sun, offensive palkia does almost equal damage in rain which is equally common.

as for offense sets- if I ran some kinda dedicated sun offense I don't think there would be space left considering ho-oh is kinda mandatory on those teams.

I'd just like to point out that the main goal of ToxicRoost Resh is to pose an offensive threat, not to Toxic stall, unlike SDef Kia. Toxic+Roost is meant to complement its offensive prowess, supplying it with the ability to beat and pressure some of its would be defensive checks, like Support Arceus and Lugia, which generally don't like to be poisoned.

I'm not trying to say Resh is an amazing mon here, as it definitely requires support, but its quite threatening and at least deserves to be ranked alongside Gyarados/Charizard. It also has ways to get around its so called counters i.e. Stone Edge for Ho-Oh, ToxicRoost for Support Arceus, Haban Berry for Palkia, SunnyBeam for Ogre. I still think Reshiram deserves at least C+ or B-, although I do see the logic for keeping it lower.

 

[WoShiDavid]

Well it was reject for analysis so unless it somehow gets passed I think it should stay off. Victini has yet to be ranked and it looks like it is going to pass so why not rank that. I previously recommended C+ as a start but I think I'll just go straight C. Can anyone else who has used it recommend a higher or lower rank.

Really? Wow, especially when it was ranked A- in Gen V ._. I know the rain nerf (Or weather as a whole anyway) was a blow but not to the point where it became completely unviable.

 

[skies]

Really? Wow, especially when it was ranked A- in Gen V ._. I know the rain nerf (Or weather as a whole anyway) was a blow but not to the point where it became completely unviable.

It was ranked C+...

 

[WoShiDavid]

It was ranked C+...

I was referring to Omastar who isn't even ranked here

 

[Inspirited]

Well it was reject for analysis so unless it somehow gets passed I think it should stay off. Victini has yet to be ranked and it looks like it is going to pass so why not rank that. I previously recommended C+ as a start but I think I'll just go straight C. Can anyone else who has used it recommend a higher or lower rank.

I would personally say C+ or B- for Victini simply because it doesn't really need support to accomplish its primary role (Screwing over Geoxern) and it can actually become the supporter on the rare, but fairly effective, Trick Room teams this gen. Don't get me wrong, it ADORES sun support or Stealth Rock and Spikes support so it can continue its rampage after bringing down Geoxern more than 31% of the time or just flat out nuke things in a similar fashion to Choiced Kyogre, but once again it doesn't need this support at all in order to accomplish what it needs to do. It's a good, fairly self serving mon but supporting it with Sun, Spikes, or another Trick Room user is generally the way to go. Not to mention that it isn't an Arceus forme or a Mega Evolution, so its opportunity cost is relatively low, but there are Pokemon that can check Geoxern and slot onto a team easier than Victini.

 

[Disaster Area]

Actually Victini's typing is really nice in checking mewtwo as well.

 

[Minority]

Yes, it doesn't mind Psystrike very much (Shadow Ball is ouch but who runs that). Switching in on MM2X Low Kick is incredibly hilarious and V-Create generally hits like a truck. The reason why I suggested having it so low at first is because its not super easy to fit on teams and sometimes it's just not that useful, but not taking Arceus forums or Mega Evolutions is nice. I think one of its greatest assets is how unpredictable it can be since it can be difficult to tell if its Scarf / Band / TR while the check to Xern is a big draw (not to mention that many teams just aren't prepared for it since it's a little bit more obscure). It has a nice speed tier to match and can mess up basically anything with chip damage thanks to its move pool. It can also blast though Groudon and Lando-T which is something that most other physical attackers have trouble with so there's that too. I don't know how viable TR is this gen, but if I made a TR team it would most likely have Victini on it.

 

[Disaster Area]

TR works better without victini really n_n but
don't run full TR, it's bad.

 

[JFrost]

I'd bump Aegislash up to High B, Low A for the simple fact that he completely destroys Xerneas, and can perform pretty well if in the right hands because of his Ghost STAB priority (Ubers is dominated by Ghosts/Psychics). He has the defense to take a strong attack from top Ghosts and or Psychic types (with ghost moves), as well as Fire types, activating Weakness Policy.

And for the record, since I get this alot, White Herb, Geomancy, HP Fire Xerneas doesn't KO Aegislash in his defensive position. He can tank it with base defense stats, usually ending up around 33% HP. And since Xerneas is faster he'll hit Aegislash with HP Fire, activating Weakness Policy, and one Iron Head will OHKO Xerneas without question, 100%. Just my two cents. ;)

 

[Minority]

Sorry bro, none of those are good reasons why Aegi should be moved up (well countering Xern is but everyone knows this already). The fact that you believe that Ubers is dominated by ghosts/physics, mention WP, and misname Power Herb as White Herb makes it very clear that you haven't played this meta much. It's okay to be fresh, but you probs shouldn't recommend changes for the viability rankings if you haven't actually played the mon quite a bit. In respect to Aegishit, I myself have only played it a little bit, but it's not hard to see why it's B rank, in fact many players would probably say that it needs to be lowered considering some of the other mons that are B rank. I would say that Aegi is really only good on stall and is therefore "designed to serve specific roles for a team" which in many matches is just checking Xern.

 

[iampie]

>weakness policy aegislash

 

[JFrost]

Sorry bro, none of those are good reasons why Aegi should be moved up (well countering Xern is but everyone knows this already). The fact that you believe that Ubers is dominated by ghosts/physics, mention WP, and misname Power Herb as White Herb makes it very clear that you haven't played this meta much. It's okay to be fresh, but you probs shouldn't recommend changes for the viability rankings if you haven't actually played the mon quite a bit. In respect to Aegishit, I myself have only played it a little bit, but it's not hard to see why it's B rank, in fact many players would probably say that it needs to be lowered considering some of the other mons that are B rank. I would say that Aegi is really only good on stall and is therefore "designed to serve specific roles for a team" which in many matches is just checking Xern.

I have a decent amount of experience.. sounds newbish but /rank JFrost on showdown, you'll see. Only around 1400 Elo in Ubers but I'm definitely battle tested. I've misnamed the herbs forever, that's just me not really using them much myself, but you get my point. The stronger Mon's in Ubers are Ghost/Psy types (Mewtwo, Gengar, etc) and my point was that Aegislash is strong against the best of Ubers. It's weaker against the general audience, but when 3 of the 4 S Tier mons have problems against Aegislash with WP, I'd like to see it bumped a bit.

 

[Haruno]

I have a decent amount of experience.. sounds newbish but /rank JFrost on showdown, you'll see. Only around 1400 Elo in Ubers but I'm definitely battle tested. I've misnamed the herbs forever, that's just me not really using them much myself, but you get my point. The stronger Mon's in Ubers are Ghost/Psy types (Mewtwo, Gengar, etc) and my point was that Aegislash is strong against the best of Ubers. It's weaker against the general audience, but when 3 of the 4 S Tier mons have problems against Aegislash with WP, I'd like to see it bumped a bit.

isn't aegis ohko'd by mewtwo and unable to switchin to gengar?

 

[iampie]

aegis ohkod by mewtwo?

 

[JFrost]

isn't aegis ohko'd by mewtwo and unable to switchin to gengar?

If one were to put Defensive EV's into Aegislash I seriously doubt Mewtwo could OHKO it. I need to run a calc on that. As for Gengar yeah, but if the situation comes down to Aegislash vs Gengar, Gengar is in trouble.

 

[realiti]

prior damage from aegi causes aegi to lose
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 228-270 (70.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
same with gengar
252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 224-266 (69.1 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and kyogre (with choice scarf)
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Rain: 288-339 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
not to mention lando-t and blaziken and yveltal are still in the meta

 

[JFrost]

Mewt

prior damage from aegi causes aegi to lose
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 228-270 (70.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
same with gengar
252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 224-266 (69.1 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and kyogre (with choice scarf)
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Rain: 288-339 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
not to mention lando-t and blaziken and yveltal are still in the meta

Mewtwo uses Shadow Ball. WP activates, Aegislash uses filler move. He doesn't use Shadow Sneak first turn, takes him out of defense position. Next turn, Aegislash uses Shadow Sneak, Mewtwo is done. What about that concept aren't people understanding?

And if we're talking switch in, and Mewtwo uses one of those moves (hopefully he does), one Shadow Sneak will kill off a mon with 70 base defense. Especially with Aegislash 150 base atk in offensive position, along with x2 from WP.

 

[realiti]

Mewt


Mewtwo uses Shadow Ball. WP activates, Aegislash uses filler move. He doesn't use Shadow Sneak first turn, takes him out of defense position. Next turn, Aegislash uses Shadow Sneak, Mewtwo is done. What about that concept aren't people understanding?

And if we're talking switch in, and Mewtwo uses one of those moves (hopefully he does), one Shadow Sneak will kill off a mon with 70 base defense. Especially with Aegislash 150 base atk in offensive position, along with x2 from WP.

who brings in mewtwo on aegislash? fire blast nails aegi switchinand then switches to a resist. then aegi dies
and mewtwo isn't the only thing in the meta