lmao I'm calling effyouzion a troll. Edgar is a great ubers player and contributor. 3K PLAYERS NEED BREAKS :]Um, Forretress is only an emergency GeoXern check at best since it can only do this when Sturdy is active and Xern needs to be at 71% or lower for Gyro Ball to reliably KO. I personally dislike Gyro Ball on Forretress anyways just because of the sheer utility it has and it's ability to pseudo patch some of Forretress's shortcomings. Forretress doesn't have as bad as 4MSS as you make it out to be since it would ideally only want 7 moves really. It can definitely get away with 4 moves using the formula that MM2 gave me when I was writing Forry's analysis (Hazard: Spikes or T-Spikes, Toxic, Rapid Spin, Anti Gengar: Volt Switch, Gyro Ball, EQ) and it can even get away with running Pain Split (for taking on Eleceus and Ghostceus or just for longevity in general) when running T-Spikes as its Hazard. Its defensive niche come in the form of turning good support mons into a liability for your opponent with Toxic ruining support Arceus and it's ability to say no to anything Klefki tries to do whilst turning these into Spikes set up fodder. This isn't much, but it's utility niches help patch up its mediocre defensive presence. Volt Switch softens any argument that it is bait for things like Ho-Oh and what not. A well played Forretress can destroy teams.
I'm going to tag Sweep here since he was one of the bigger helps when writing up Forry's analysis and I'm sure his input will be helpful when ranking Forry.
Did you seriously just call Edgar a troll 0_o.......
He is definitely one of the most esteemed Ubers players here and any opinion expressed by him should be respected
Just look at that shiny Stark Sharks banner he wears. If you're gonna call the Ubers player in the winning SPL team a troll..... I just have no words to be perfectly fair :/
I actually disclaimed all of what you said in my post if you read it. BP is a fairly viable gimmick like Swagplay is, and it has a good match-up against all of the other alt-win gimmicks because it has access to Minimize which trolls everything pretty much. You need something decent on your team for BP or it will cause you trouble which shows that it's good enough to influence team considerations. The only thing that truly annoys BP as I've witnessed so far is Taunt Yveltal, but there are 50/50 situations which can allow you to overcome it.I haven't played OU seriously since the Genesect ban so I'm not the greatest judge of how relevant laddering is in that tier, but here in übers laddering performance means very little, especially when people like Trickroom and Sweep have managed to peak #1 with crazy Pokémon like Stunfisk and Feebas. The fact that you peaked 1500 with baton pass is pretty irrelevant. Your opponent in that replay used a Rattata on a standard ladderer's team (i.e. not a great team) and made no attempt to counter that playstyle from the beginning with the Pokémon he possessed, such as Mega-Kangaskhan, whilst he/she made suspect plays throughout the match. Baton Pass really shouldn't be that much of a threat to a competent player, and besides, a lot of the Pokémon you used on that team already do have ranks. Nobody prepares for it because a good team and player should be able to deal with it effectively. While the playstyle can get pretty luck-based with tactics like Minimize Drifblim, that isn't enough reason to give the Pokémon used on Baton Pass teams ranks. Things like Murkrow and Liepard can pull luck-based wins, yet they remain unranked. In short, you're gonna need more compelling evidence before anyone will consider ranking Vaporeon or Mew.
Most bp teams tend to run Espeon for that reason, and Sylveon for Dragon Tail but if you predict well, you should be fine with phazingPiexplode said:Phazing tends to handle evasion BP I think
Ingrain, Magic Coat, and Magic Bounce all exist.Phazing tends to handle evasion BP I think
Prediction = glorified luck.if you predict well, you should be fine with phazing
You've forgotten about mentioning Extremespeed. The ability to kill weakened things that are faster than it such as xern is invaluable. Because of the nuclear power of V-create it's not set-up bait for xern; however, after the speed drop, it is, since it can threaten with moonblast as well as geomancy (outplaying the coinflip territory unless you have a strong handle on it) which really sucks a lot
Mentioned it, but not enough. ESpeed certainly gives Ray some extra value as you said.Extremespeed is a valuable priority move allowing Rayquaza to revenge kill nicely.
We've won the meta.Rayquaza has been moved to A-
Nothing from Ubers ever moves down to OU, this isn't determined by usage or if its bad here in Ubers. OU works differently than we do.Since Giratina-A seems to be less niched than its Origin Forme, shouldn't he be moved to OU?
Sweep can ladder with stunfisk. Should that be ranked? How about Specs Regice?Piexplode said:Edgar has a team running cress (that gr8stard used in UPL) so maybe it should have an analysis and remain ranked?
Also we need to rank Weezing (and maybe koffing? :3)
Fair enough, I understand the difference between troll teams and legit ones. However, I do not feel like every time an Ubers player uses a pokemon it should get an analysis and ranking. Not specifically Weezing (which is actually p decent) but in general.Piexplode said:Weezing has a legitimate use, and koffing fills the same role slightly better but with a knock off weakness (making it arguably worse vs lando) see edgar's RMT, and cress is legit too. These aren't troll teams, these are legitimate teams (I believe)