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Things to adjust for LC Pokemon

Discussion in 'The Suggestion Box' started by Old Man Reaver, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. Old Man Reaver

    Old Man Reaver

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    Hey guys. I've got a few suggestions for the analysis pages of the Pokemon who are in the LC metagame.

    1) Recolor bars to reflect stats proportionately to Little Cup

    This is what I'm talking about:

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/mantyke

    See how the first set analysis describes Mantyke as having a fantastic 16 SpA? Why isn't it reflected in the colored bar that shows the SpA stat (it's dark red at 60). I think the colors should be reflecting their stats in comparison to the Little Cup metagame, not Standard.

    2) Adjust mins/maxes to reflect stats at level 5.

    This is pretty much in the same vein as the above. It's more useful to have mins/maxes reflect level 5 (that's where they're used in Little Cup, after all). Having them show level 100 stats is ultimately pointless.

    Thanks!
  2. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I remember Gen_Emp saying he had spoken to someone about this (and adding LC as a tier), and that it probably will get done at some point but that its not a priority for programmers at this point. It's a good idea that I agree with entirely, and hopefully when some of the more major programing projects (tabs, calc, SB2) are done will get some attention, but I doubt its going to happen before that. If I'm wrong and this is a quick fix, then that's great.
  3. Mailman

    Mailman

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    Although this does make sense, I think it would be rather hard to set the colors; For example rhyhorn has a base Speed of 25, yet it can reach 13 speed and the fastest Pokemon in the tier reach 20 speed, such as Elekid who has 95 base Speed, so that's the reason this is why I think this is going to be hard.

    (not saying it's a bad idea)
  4. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    I don't see how that makes it "more difficult". 13 is much less than 20.
  5. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
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    It would be less accurate but certainly not impossible.

    Besides this, the tier of the Pokemon should be changed from NFE to Little Cup.
  6. Old Man Reaver

    Old Man Reaver

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    I think what he's trying to say is that it'd be harder to color the bars because there isn't as much of a difference as there is in standard. Sure, 13 and 20 may be different, but they aren't as different as, say, 91 (Sassy Bronzong) and 460 (Jolly Ninjask).
  7. cantab

    cantab

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    I'm not so sure about changing the tier to LC. LC isn't a tier. It's a metagame, but it's defined in a totally different way to the tiers. Indeed, LC has its own tiers (standard and Uber).

    In particular, all LC-eligible Pokemon will be in one of the tiers, usually NU but in principle any tier (if the idea of tiering all the NFE's properly happens). A Pokemon can't be UU and NU at once, but it can be LC and NU together.
  8. DJXO9

    DJXO9

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    If you use percentages, it works just fine. Take one of the highest general speeds, and make that the highest percentile. Give the lowest speeds the lowest percentile. Then just divide every other speed in between evenly.
  9. Abacus

    Abacus

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    Like cantab said, what would gligar's page look like? Following this logic, shouldn't the pages for uu/nu pokemon use color bars proportional to the tiers?

    I actually think this is a good idea, just a little fiddly in implementation. The new tab system coming to the strategy dex may present the best solution; it would be great if the colors displayed can be linked to what metagame tab is currently open.

    The current color system works okay for uu/nu, the only issue is that the red bars attempt to cover too broad a stat range. Using more colors could fix this.

    In short, make the colors proportional in lc tabs. Use more color categories in everything else (although this is not terribly important).
  10. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Not only has this already been addressed, but I'm already looking into coding a fix. Thank you all for bringing it up, though.
  11. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    No, they really are about as different.
  12. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    You are not comparing like with like, 13 is Rhyhorn's max+ speed and you are using min IV, - nature, no investment for Bronzong. A Bronzong with max+ actually hits 181, and Ninjask is hardly a fair comparison, lets take Jolteon and its 394 max Speed. Suddenly you see that actually, the spreads are not hugely different (fun note, +2 Bronzong outspeeds Starmie).

    Ideally, yes, LC would have its own set of tiers entirely separate from Lv. 100 play, probably below the normal tier list. However that would be a significant change to the current system, requite changes to the Pokemon database (to allow for an extra set of tiers), and is unlikely to happen with LC at it current size. A compromise solution which makes the LC analysis much more accessible, and as far as I understand it would be vastly more simple, would be to add LC as a tier. Pokemon in two tiers at once could probably be added by hand, or allowing Pokemon to display in multiple tiers (would be handy with tabs for other analysis too).
  13. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    The actual spread is between 5 (lowest stat, munchlax's speed) and 160 (highest stat, onix's defense). I might even just rule 160 out or something to get things a little more even.

    The raw speed is irrelevant.
  14. cantab

    cantab

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    For LC, the actual stats ARE relevant, due to the 'quantisation' effect. A lot of Pokemon with different base stats end up with the same maximum actual stat.

    Besides that, to get things 'even', just use percentiles. Say if you have five colours, then red is the bottom 20%, orange the next, then yellow, yellow-green, and green the top 20%. That's probably better than equal intervals.
  15. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Guess what: I've already thought of ALL of this stuff. I can understand your eagerness, but this is already being taken care of. Besides, I'd rather have something easy that looks accurate by adapting what already exists than have something be slightly better and require a bunch of coding from scratch.

    Also I would also rather have 75 appear to be better than 70 as well simply because it requires less EVs to max (therefore is better). It's a pointless distinction.
  16. Res Ipsa Loquitur

    Res Ipsa Loquitur

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    You could just deal with Onix's defense by adding the cyan color that appears at 200 for OU Pokemon, which is how Steelix's Def is shown now, along with a few other outliers like Blissey's HP and Shuckle's Def and SpD.
  17. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Yeah, but even with cyan being 160, that still results in some iffy stuff IIRC. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it, I suppose.

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