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Thinking outside the box! The rock star's back in town!

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Celever, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,756
    Ok, here I will show you a team that has had a lot of effort put into it to pretty much get it to perfection. The pokemon in this team are all pretty rare with the exception of gurrdurr, who is actually my weakest link I think, so it just goes to show that common pokemon aren't always the best! Anwyay, without further ado, let's get onto the team, listed from what I think is MVP to LVP:

    [​IMG] @ Lum berry
    Ability: Levitate
    -Morning sun
    -Zen headbutt
    -Stone edge
    -Explosion
    Ev's:
    Hp 4
    Atk 252
    Def 0
    Sp Atk 0
    Sp Def 0
    Spe 252
    Nature: Impish

    This Solrock is amazing, He usually uses rock polish once or twice, and then can get rid of one or two pokemon with acrobatics. If this works right, then Solrock can, and has before, get rid of 3 pokemon. It gets rid of amoongus, sawk and gurrdurr (and undoubtedly others I haven't run into) with the flying gem acrobatics, and because it has pretty good bulk can survive a good few hits while it chips down their health and when the third one comes out, well, it explodes! This pokemon is one of the only true counters to double stall ninjask, since... well... it outspeeds it after 3 rock polishes since he only gets 3 halves. Let me put it this way:
    Show Hide
    Ninjask's and Solrock's speed at one:
    NInjask protects, Solrock rock polishes.
    NInjask is still faster.

    Ninjask substitutes, Solrock uses acrobatics:
    Now, Ninjask is even with Solrock now.

    Ninjask protects, Solrock rock polishes.

    By now the opponent knows he's not getting anywhere, so sometimes they sword dance here and sometimes they baton pass, either way solrock will outspeed him next turn. If he substitutes then unless he has lots of EV's shared into attack then Solrock can survive the x-scissor anyway to OHKOK with acrobatics. It truly is win/win for Solrock.

    So Solrock is extremely useful!

    [​IMG] @ Choice specs
    Ability: Sap sipper
    -Psychic
    -Thunderbolt
    -Energy ball
    -Shadow ball
    Hp 0
    Atk 0
    Def 0
    Sp Atk 252
    Sp Def 4
    Spe 252
    Nature: Timid

    Girafarig is underrated. There are few pokemon in NU (5 I think) that don't get 2HKO'd at least by choice scarf girafarig, (provided it gets a super effective attack in) and this pokemon has far better coverage than the below pokemon and though he is the newest member of my team he claimed a rightful place on my team immediately! The bane of Girafarig though are focus sashes, especially focus sash kadabra. Of course, if Solrock gets stealth rock out (sometimes I don't get a turn to use it since he;s too busy exploding, a free KO is better than stealth rock) but it still gets annoying! Anyway, brilliant coverage, brilliant special attack stat and brilliant item (as well as an immunity, grass with sap sipper) makes for a solid team-mate.

    [​IMG] @ Eviolite
    Ability: Thick fat
    -Surf
    -Toxic
    -Rest
    -Sleep talk
    Hp
    Atk 0
    Def 126
    Sp Atk 252
    Sp Def 130
    Spe
    Nature: Calm

    Eviolite Sealeo is the meaning of bulky. The good thing with Sealeo is that despite having loads of bulk, it has good special attack as well so in the turn it KO'd Musharna with surf! (and I won) making it an extremely valuable member of the team.

    [​IMG] @ Expert belt
    Ability: Sniper
    -Surf
    -Hidden power electric
    -Energy ball
    -Ice beam
    Hp 252
    Atk 0
    Def 0
    Sp Atk 252
    Sp Def 0
    Spe 4
    Nature: Modest

    Well, this can sweep, fairly easily. The only problems with Octillery are the lack of STAB and the amount of pokemon he gets walled by. Really, you should try and get charge beam in whenever you can just for a boost (but fudge whoever's idea it was to give it 90% accuracy) and after a boost or 2 he can get rid of a large amount of the tier. Looking at the moves, you can obviously see that the moves it has gives good coverage, however there are plenty of pokemon it doesn't land super-effective hits on. There are few pokemon that it can't hit at least neutrally, but these are... Nope. There aren't any (that I can find) so that's good! Sniper is there just because if a crit does happen, and it has saved my bacon a couple of times when a crit came out of nowhere and won it for me. Besides, what else does he have? Suction cups? That is terrible. His hidden ability is moody, by the way, which is banned everywhere but hackmons.

    [​IMG] @ toxic orb
    Ability: Quick feet
    -Protect
    -Facade (:O)
    -Crunch
    -Close combat
    Hp 0
    Atk 252
    Def 0
    Sp Atk 0
    Sp Def 4
    Spe 252
    Nature: Adamant

    Ursaring actually ties for last place with Gurddurr, both are solid(ish) physical sweepers, Ursaring has alright coverage but he has several draw-backs. Cross chop, despite having 90% accuracy, misses more than when I used to run focus miss on Politoed in OU. No! He's sent out lairon and sealeo is already down! I send out Ursaring, protect for the boost for guts (unless he took a hit whne he was sent out, in that case it activates already) and use cross chop. It misses, he heavy slams or earthquakes or whatever and you faint. Crap. A whole load of crap. Special sweepers seem to always beat it as well, you can't take down musharna with Ursaring any way you try to and then it KO's you. For a pokemon that is made to sweep it doesn't sweep very well! However, this isn't to say that it doesn't have it's uses, and it has saved me several times!

    [​IMG] @ Eviolite
    Ability: Iron fist
    -Drain punch
    -Knock off
    -Mach Punch
    -Ice punch
    Hp 252
    Atk 252
    Def 0
    Sp Atk 0
    Sp Def 0
    Spe 4
    Nature: Adamant

    Well, Gurrdurr is my combat to everything my other pokemon don't combat (which is little) but is usually there just as back-up from where my pokemon are already fainted. Behind girafarig it is the newest arrival, replacing my old drifblim, which was basically a worse copy of Solrock, but really isn't good. It finds itself 3HKO'ing pokemon at best, and though it is very bulky it doesn't have the power to compliment it. It can switch in on pokemon and sometimes finish them, but if there is a pokemon that you think screams "I fit on this team!" then this is who will be replaced. If you have 2 than Ursaring will be replaced, but more than that they're here to stay.
  2. Jaws

    Jaws

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    First thing I can say, is you are SO weak to Ludicolo, as you saw in your battle. Your team is also pretty weak to gorebyss, with +2 it can ohko everything on your team it even has a chance to ohko Sealeo
    Show Hide
    252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Gorebyss (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Grass vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Sealeo: 92.19% - 108.85%
    56.25% chance to OHKO
    Something I suggest is having scarfed Rotom-Fan over Girafarig. max speed scarfed rotom fan can outspeed +2 Gorebyss. and Ludicolo out of the rain.

    Something else I suggest is running Close Combat over Cross Chop on Ursaring. It has a higher base power, and has better accuracy. Since you don't need to constantly have to set up, since you have guts, you can just switch out if the def. drops bother you. I also suggest Quick Feet ursaring over Guts. Jolly Ursaring with quick feet can outspeed Adamant Life Orbed Cinccino, Zangoose, Any non scarfed pokemon with less then 107 base speed. Ursaring will still have 359 attack, which is nothing to laugh at.

    Although Ice Punch and Thunder Punch is bolt-beam coverage of sorts, I feel like Bulk Up is a lot more useful than Thunder Punch. This makes Gurdurr a much more potent threat, and scare off pretty much any pokemon that isn't max def. Amoonguss. Something else I suggest on Gurdurr is Guts. With Guts Gurdurr can come in on a toxic, absorb it get +1 Attack then you can use Gurdurr as a status sponge, or just wreck house on the spot.


    Changes:
    Scarfed Rotom > Scarfed Girafarig
    Show Hide
    Rotom-Fan @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Air Slash
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick
    - Volt Switch

    Quick Feet Ursaring > Guts Ursaring (Or if you feel like keeping guts Close Combat > Cross Chop)
    Show Hide
    Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Quick Feet
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - Facade
    - Protect

    Bulk Up Guts Gurdurr > Thunder Punch Iron Fist Gurdurr
  3. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,756
    Thanks for the rate! I must say though, I can't see me ever bothering to use bulk up on gurdurr in-battle, but thanks for the suggestion. Although we are Gorebys weak, I have never run into one! And Ludicolo, well, usually I get rid of them with acrobatics - unless he leads with Ludicolo, since by the time he comes out I'll probably have some rock polishes in there to outspeed him. As I said in our little chat on pokemon showdown I tried a lot of the NU tier, this included a Rotom with exactly that set but it didn't work, at all. Girafarig is better rounded. However, I would like to try out that Ursaring set, it seems interesting.

    Edit: Holy - That is so much better than guts ursaring! Guts is out-classed now! :D
  4. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    567
    Only a quick look, but I wouldn't actually use any of these pokes seriously barring ursaring.

    Solrock: You dont want stealth rocks +rock polish on a set, it leaves only 2 moves for coverage. Both of which you have are pretty terrible. The only poke if you want stealth rocks and rock polish (woulnd't advise) would be torterra as it gets two great stab moves in earthquake and wood hammer (seed bomb for no recoil). Otherwise, Regirock, piloswine, golurk, all better S.R. options.

    Giraffarig: Sawsbuck and offensive miltank outshine as offensive Sap Sipper pokes, while gardevoir is a better scarfed psychic types thansk to its unpredictability and great SpD bulk

    Sealeo is not going to be that bulky without defensive bulk, and then it cannot dish out damage. I would suggest toxic over surf. But mantine is a much better water type wall and regice is a better ice type wall. Heck Lapras is a better water/ice wall.

    Octillery: Only time I would use him would be for scarfed max speed water spouts or under trick room. Even with max speed, it is too slow to compete with samurott, ludicolo and simipour.

    Gurdurr: Very good poke. however, if you want to use it for its full capacity, use bulk up over thunderpunch. not using drain punch would only be for host and flying types, and ice punch can do both, while cannot touch golurk. The added attack and defense will be so useful
  5. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,756
    Shuckleking, I know that these pokemon might have better options for some circumcances, but these pokemon have just the right moves for good sweepers and walls.
    Solrock, as I said, he can get rid of half a team! Good prediction is key with Solrock, if you screw up then he's in trouble, but if you do it right then he could win the match for you, and I'm willing to take the risk.
    Girafarig, yes people think other pokemon can outshine it (sap sipper isn't it's basis, it's just there because he generally doesn't have great abilities) but in-battle there are 2 factors: 1: The opponent has never seen one before, and they have no idea what to expect. And 2: That special attack stat is awesome. Seriously, this other team got me down to only girafarig, I looked at his team playing through the match-ups and noticed psychic was the best attack on all 4 and he actually won it for me! Girafarig has a great speed stat too, I'd recommend him to any new players wanting a new team-mate since he really is that good!
    Sealeo, well, why can't he be bulky and dish out damage? He only has 252 on HP, but with the eviolite it brings his already-good-bulk-for-an-NFE up to 140 so it could survive that attack. It has 252 invested in special attack as well by the way! (And 4 in speed) if you had read the OP more closely.
    Octillery, I tried out all of those pokemon listed above, and octillery just comes out with great coverage, high special attack stat and the ability to charge up stats and deal damamge at the same time. In my opinion it really can't ocmpare to Samurott or simipour, maybe ludicolo, but I just find Octillery better in more situations.
    Gurdurr: I have an interesting play-style in pokemon, I either go all out or all in. This means that either I have a staller that completely stalls but with 1 attacking attack, or all in with 4 sweeping moves. Of course, if I manage to build a pokemon that works well with a mixture of the two, like solrock for example, then I can go half and half (though really Solrock fits in with stalling, with 1 main attacking attack (acrobatics) and the rest stalling, despite explosion dealing damage) but with Gurdurr I'm never going to bother using bulk up, and I'll miss thunderpunch once it's gone, I know that.
    Thanks for your opinions on the pokemon though, I will ignore them with great gratitude.
  6. Fotographic

    Fotographic

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    18
    Hi, I saw your team, and the sets kinda confused me. Here are some thoughts on your current Pokes. You seem to set on keeping them, so I won't try to suggest replacements.

    Solrock - He has extremely poor coverage. Flying and Normal? Really? If you're going to use Solrock as an offensive Poke, use Earthquake, so you don't have to waste your Rock Polish boosts by switching out, ruining a sweep with him.

    Girafarig - Girafarig is a very average Psychic-type. I don't know why you felt the need to scarf him, as he works better as a Calm Mind user, boosting his meh Special Attack stat to good levels, while raising his OK Special Defense. I don't know what Energy Ball is needed for, as the only few Pokes that resist Psychic/Thunderbolt are hit for super effective damage from Signal Beam, afaik, with Shiftry, Exeggutor and Cacturne having a 4X weakness to it. I recommend ditching Energy Ball for Calm Mind, and giving your Girafarig a different item.

    Sealeo - You seem to think your Sealeo is very bulky, but he isn't bulky enough to survive a +6 Psychic from Musharna like you claim he did. It only has 264 defenses in both stats with Eviolite, and I did a calc, too, to prove my point.
    Sealeo is just a bad wall. I know you don't like replacing, but come on. Your set seems to be built toward sweeping, even. No Defense investment outside of HP? Really...

    Octillery - Octillery can't really function with that little Speed investment. Octillery is not that good defensively for a Poke, so your spread is not going to help him sweep. I recommend Water Spout for a STAB. Flamethrower is probably your most useless move on him, because it doesn't hit anything Water and Ice can't, so that could be replaced. I don't see the need for Charge Beam, as Octillery is too frail and slow to use such a weak attack, as the damage it does is too small and the SpA boost is not worth taking that much damage for.

    Ursaring - He's OK, but you need the Toxic Orb. Flame Orb cuts his attack, which is a no-no on a physical sweeper. If you stay in a lot, Swords Dance could be useful over Protect, if Ursaring tanks a hit, but Protect is a decent choice for safe status. Overall, he's fine. Just change the Orb.

    Gurdurr - I like how you complain about how you don't like his bulk, and refuse to run Bulk Up. Since you won't replace ThunderPunch, I'm not going to say anything.

    Overall, while I admire your team for not using common Pokes, the stuff you're running isn't going to help you win. Even if you don't listen to me, I hope I at least showed you how to improve your team. Also, this is my first rate, sorry if it's bad.
  7. IceSpade

    IceSpade

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    227
    Hmm, your team is weak to Musharna, weak to hazards, weak to fast electric types and a lot of other threats. That Solrock is utterly walled by Rock types such as Regirock and Probopass, and there are better answers to Ninjask such as Bastiodon. Girafarig is outclassed by a lot of other Psychic types in the tier. There are better walls in the tier than Sealeo such as Regice, Mantine, and Lapras. Octillery is frail, slow, and can still be walled by common special walls. Ursaring is definitely cool, but in this metagame there are other Pokemon that can do Ursaring's job such as Zangoose and Tauros. Your Gurdurr sucks, Thunderpunch sucks, just use Bulk Up.
    Musharna can't get to +8 and it doesn't have trouble with Sealeo, Kadabra isn't affected by Stealth Rock so it can still use it Focus Sash against Girafarig, not a lot will switch in Lairon to Ursaring (but since you have Cross Chop they tried their luck with it and succeeded), and who even uses Heavy Slam.
    Note that I might have repeated what the other raters already said, but I hope what I posted is already enough to make you rethink about your team and why you even posted it in the first place.
  8. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,756
    As the new title says, I posted this team to show how some of the rarest pokemon in NU (solrock, girafarig, sealeo and octillery) can be used rather effectively.
    The reason Solrock is lacking a STAB, is because I made this team as a team, rather than individual pokemon getting slapped together. Acrobatics is my main check to amoongus, sturdy sawk (mold breaker lets them use earthquake) as well as other threats that might KO my pokemon. Of all of the pokemon on my team, the only other pokemon that I've seen out of the 4 pokemon that are rare is in fact octillery, and he had a similar set to me, however, I didn't realize that flamethrower gave no extra coverage so I'm changing that to psychic. Sealeo is honestly great, and has won the battle for me a few times, however, I'm willing to try a complete stall set if you think that's what should happen, so his set will now be: Rest, toxic, aqua ring and surf, however, I don't see how it is better, but I'll give it a go. As I said, bulk up Gurdurr just doesn't work for me. Solrock is utterly walled by rock types, but the majority of the time they use stealth rock that turn letting me switch to girafarig to use energy ball on them. Thank you for the rates, I respect them, and I have made some changes such as Sealeo's set and flamethrower on Octillery but I'm not ready to completely replace pokemon - unless you can provide sets that work much better which I also agree is better. Anyway, thank you, and good day!

    Edit: Octillery now also has surf in the place of charge beam for STAB.

    Edit 2: Sealeo's set is getting changed back, the stall just doesn't work!
  9. Amarillo

    Amarillo
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    778
    If you want to cover the fighters and the specific threats you mentioned, use Zen Headbutt. It at least has STAB. Unfortunately, it is almost equally weak. Rock polishing your speed just to explode in the end also makes almost no sense, and neither does SR on a setup sweeper, but I'll leave that up to you to decide.

    You're also probably better off using Trick on that Scarf Girafarig. Contrary to what you may think, it is rather easily walled. As is, any coherent defensive core will have a field day with you.
  10. ium

    ium dein haar riecht gut
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    859
    okay, now these arguments are really faulty.

    first of all:
    252Atk Flight Gem Solrock (+Atk) Acrobatics vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Amoonguss (+Def): 65% - 77% (284 - 336 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Solrock (+Atk) Acrobatics vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Amoonguss (+Def): 44% - 52% (192 - 226 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    0SpAtk Amoonguss (Neutral) Giga Drain vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Solrock (Neutral): 72% - 85% (204 - 240 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    solrock is not a good check to amoonguss if it even is one at all. flight gem acrobatics is a one-time use which means you may not even be using it on amoonguss half the time, and you must catch it on the switch. with stealth rock / rock polish / explosion as your other moves, are you honestly going to be a sitting duck while waiting and trying to preserve your flight gem just for one defensive threat? even if you do get amoonguss on the switch, then it can just go back out and gain half the damage you inflicted back as hp easily to avoid the KO while you just lost your item. if you hit amoonguss while it's already in, you still lose 1v1 because giga drain brings it out of KO range.

    next off, checking sawk is not even supposed to be considered with solrock if it doesn't even have a fighting resistance or defensive investment.

    252Atk Choice Band Sawk (Neutral) Close Combat vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Solrock (Neutral): 115% - 136% (327 - 385 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk Sawk (+Atk) Close Combat vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Solrock (Neutral): 85% - 100% (240 - 283 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 2% chance to OHKO.

    solrock fails to outspeed unless you get a rock polish up, so this is a rather poor check to sawk to say the least. regardless of sawk's ability, solrock loses either way. either sawk hangs on with sturdy if you somehow get off the hit, or mold breaker earthquake just wrecks it.

    okay, i am actually going to rate this now, although i honestly think that you should probably gain a better grasp of the metagame or check out battling 101 instead of having me do this, because there is far too much to change here. i'm only just doing this to mention some of the threats that your team, and even some good teams, have problems with so you know to identify them in the future when teambuilding.

    solrock / choice scarf girafarig / sealeo / octillery / quick feet ursaring / gurdurr

    in particular, you are weak to ludicolo & gorebyss, swellow, braviary, musharna, choice band sawk, and probably other things that i cannot think of at the moment. you have "checks" to these but they often require that you sacrifice something to get them in safely which is not a good thing for such a large number of threats.

    your team barely checks flying-types (normal-types too, to an extent) since solrock is using a poor set and does not have the proper bulk to consistently switch into things like braviary or zangoose multiple times in a match. you are forcing it into a role that it does not even perform well as i have outlined before, so i would suggest just using a standard defensive set with stealth rock / morning sun / will-o-wisp / rock slide to perform a more reliable role. this is the set that sets solrock apart from other rock-types—it has staying power with morning sun and can cripple several threats with will-o-wisp handily. it will take hits rather decently from the likes of swellow and braviary. you could use zen headbutt instead of rock slide, but i honestly prefer the latter because of braviary; it's up to you really.

    next off, you are stressing your issue with amoonguss. i do not see what sealeo's set does that regice cannot accomplish. regice has better offenses, better bulk on the special side, and it can actually damage alomomola while handling amoonguss too. regice also mitigates your weakness to specially offensive rain threats such as ludicolo, shell smash gorebyss, and similar pokémon. it also buffers your team against rotom-s who hits your entire team pretty hard otherwise.

    next off, what does octillery offer that ludicolo, samurott, gorebyss, or any other water-type cannot do? all you need is water / ice / grass to hit almost everything in the tier, and each of the pokémon i listed offers something distinctly different while octillery offers slightly redundant coverage. ludicolo is neat in that it gives you a secondary check to ground-type attacks, but if you're staying with octillery, at least use hidden power electric over psychic to hit mantine or swanna on the switch.

    i basically stressed certain important changes for you, but there are more things that mostly came off of other peoples' posts that i would also consider if i were using this team. i will echo these points: particularly about girafarig offering nothing more than other choice scarf users, ursaring offering nothing different either, and thunderpunch being redundant coverage on gurdurr. if you're really adamant about using girafarig, then its best bet is a calm mind or agility baton pass user. however, if you need a choice scarf user, then other people have already mentioned useful ones such as gardevoir and rotom-a which can still check sawk for you. they also have trick to stop musharna from outright boosting on literally every member of your team. these are not the best ways to patch up your sawk and musharna weakness, but it is something.


    summary of changes:
    def solrock / trick choice scarf girafarig* / regice sealeo / hp electric psychic octillery / quick feet ursaring* / bulk up thunderpunch gurdurr
    *honestly just use something else in place of these. other people have provided suggestions.

    sets:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG] Solrock @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Morning Sun
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rock Slide / Zen Headbutt

    [​IMG] Regice @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk


    please do not just use obscure pokémon that have poor sets or are not actually good just for the sake of being unique. if you think they may work in a case, you should run a few calculations and think how things can be played out (especially in the case of your solrock vs amoonguss). you need to be able to handle threats in a tier, and you can sometimes do this with underrated pokémon. for example: klang, fraxure, murkrow? they are all very low in usage but are great pokémon without being outclassed unlike the ones you are using. but haphazardly slapping stuff together isn't the way to do it.

    anyway, take what you want from this post. hopefully i was able to explain some of the specific threats rather than just nitpick on faulty sets as others have already done.
  11. ChuckHades

    ChuckHades

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    Hi Celever, nice original team. It seems like a lot of people are missing the point of this team. To me, it seems like you're trying to show that some of the rarest pokemon can be used in a competitive environment. So there's no point changing them all to top tier threats, as that would defeat the point of the team. That's just how I see it anyway.

    That being said, I do recommend you change Sealeo and Solrock to more defensive sets, with Sealeo acting as a special wall. Solrock actually has a usable 85 defense stat, so with investment it can take a lot of neutral hits. Sealeo should also run status over Ice Beam, as it isn't hitting anything hard anyway. Those are the changes I would make whilst keeping the team the same.

    Good luck.
  12. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    165
    I highly doubt you have tested this team for instance,"+8 Musharna" +8 isnt even real the highest is +6 and Im not sure Sealeo can live a +6 252 Modest Psychic from a Musharna,and "ONLY LIKE 5 POKEMON AVOID GETTING 2/OHKOD BY SCARF GIRAFARING" Boy,you are wayyyyyy off ill post some calcs later but I am on Honkos covrage calc and like 70 + pokemon get 3HKOd or more,And some of the stuff you have on your team is just obvious theorymon.
  13. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,756
    Thank you chuckhades, I'm glad that you understood what I was trying to do here! I kept on meaning to update the OP as to say that I did change solrock's set to the one recommended, except that stealth rock is explosion. However, with no stat changing moves to boost defense (I think it's about time that pokemon should be able to learn 5 moves) I would be happy to try out any sets you might recommend. I'd just like to say that when I used this team once and sent out solrock the opponent said: "It's awesome to see someone using solrock, he's great!" which obviously shows it's working. I'll try the sealeo set with toxic where ice beam was too!

    Oiawesome, I regularly use this team and if you want you can challenge me to NU on PS (I'm actually on it now) and battle it if you don't think I test it. I actually ladder with it!

    Also octillery's psychic has turned into HP electric as recommended by ium.

    Want proof? http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-nu5667786
  14. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    It's not that people are "missing the point" of the team; we all know that you are trying to use innovative sets for hardly seen Pokemon. But the fact is that this is the Rate My Team section of a competitive Pokemon battling forum. If you didn't want people to call it gimmicky and/or try and make it more competitive and efficient, then why did you post it as a RMT in the first place? If a team is based off a gimmick, then fine; but you can't expect people to not suggest changing a few Pokes on a team like this. Limiting what people can suggest also does not lend itself to improving your team. This team's surprise factor may catch people off guard, but it doesn't work quite as well against a combination of competent battlers and competent teams (though it'll probably work on only one or the other); posting it also ruins a good amount of the surprise.

    Now, I'll give you a small rate; it'll probably look a lot like many of the previous raters though. Gurdurr needs either Bulk Up or Knock Off over ThunderPunch. T-Punch doesn't provide ANY necessary coverage whatsoever. Bulk Up can easily be set up on the many neutral physical hits in the tier. Knock Off has more of a utility purpose, removing Eviolite and Leftovers from the Pokes that wall you completely. On Ursaring, Protect tends to be a clutch move, though you do lack the ability to bring in Ursaring safely without a slow Volt Switch/U-Turn. If you can bring it in safely, Swords Dance is the better move by far. But more importantly, you should use a Jolly nature to outspeed positive base 105s and speed tie with other QF Ursaring.
  15. Celever

    Celever

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    I posted it because it is innovative, but it works. And I am using your advice, toxic sealeo for example, and solrock completely getting remodeled aside from explosion. I think that knock off might be a good choice actually, and now that solrock is no longer a SR setter Ursaring has turned into my lead, basically to get some KOs while the rest of the team finishes off the team. Anyway, I changed Ursaring's nature to jolly, but now that he is my lead I really need the protect since some other people start off with things like (quite commonly) sawk who seem to start with close combat every time. Anyway, updating the OP now, and thanks for the rate with some new things!
  16. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    hey man,

    what WDM & ium posted is absolutely correct. as innovative as it is, your team has significant issues with a vast majority of popular threats in NU and even if you're adamant about using 'unique' sets, there's absolutely no reason why you should leave yourself defenseless against any decent player using a powerful pokemon. you pointed out sawk specifically - there's actually absolutely no reason why a lead cb sawk wouldn't simply click close combat and decimate your team, since it outspeeds the _entirety_ of your team bar girafarig and statused ursaring, neither of whom can switch in at all. you also have issues with other common threats like ludicolo, which you have absolutely no options to deal with bar trying to stall out the rain with protect.

    i myself have used multiple gimmicky / underused sets in the past and yea, they're really fun to use against the ladder, but there's still a point in which you have to step back and think "does this actually help my team win games, or am i just using it for the sake of it?". i'm pretty sure that octillery, at the very least, does absolutely nothing for you. yes, it hits moderately hard. yes, it has good coverage. but it's also abysmally slow and has mediocre defenses at best, meaning that even if it gets off an attack it'll probably be OHKOed afterwards. synergy-wise, octillery keeps absolutely nothing in check for you. it can't switch in on anything at all and its power isn't enough to make it worth keeping. while it's a cool mon, octillery is an enormous burden on your team and i'd strongly suggest for you to replace it with ludicolo. ludicolo is an excellent check to the other water-types that plague your team (it keeps gorebyss, opposing ludicolo, simipour etc in check) and has the offensive tools to initiate a sweep when you need it to.

    i think you should you follow up with ium's suggestions on solrock. not only is solrock mediocre offensively, but explosion is frighteningly weak; it wouldn't even manage to 2HKO amoonguss, given that it could be used twice in a row. morning sun + explosion are also somewhat contradictory to one another. using stealth rock + will-o-wisp actually lets it perform surprisingly well against stuff like braviary too, which right now you struggle with quite a lot. if you're in a clutch situation, physically defensive solrock also lives an adamant cb sawk close combat and can OHKO -1 sawk in return with zen headbutt. physically defensive solrock > your current set.

    the last thing i have to nitpick is your selection of girafarig. i hate to say it but gardevoir is just ten times better using the current set you have (and using a choice scarf set as well). it's superior statistically in every stat bar a minuscule 2 points in base HP, the irrelevant attack stat, and only five points in speed. i just... don't understand why you would use girafarig when gardevoir is just better in every plausible way. just a quick example:

    252+ SpA Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 126-148 (30.73 - 36.09%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Girafarig Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 136-162 (33.17 - 39.51%) -- 19.46% chance to 3HKO​

    the damage output from gardevoir's scarf set is very similar to that of girafarig's specs set; this also isn't taking into account that scarf gardevoir has access to focus blast to 2HKO audino anyway. regardless of whether you choose to use scarf or specs, gardevoir should honestly replace girafarig because it's better at every single thing that girafarig will do for you.

    summary (open)
    ludicolo > octillery
    [​IMG] ludicolo @ life orb | swift swim
    timid nature (+spe, -atk) | 4 hp / 252 spa / 252 spe
    giga drain / hydro pump / ice beam / rain dance​
    physically defensive solrock > your current set
    [​IMG] solrock @ leftovers | levitate
    impish nature (+def, -spa) | 252 hp / 4 atk / 252 def
    stealth rock / will-o-wisp / morning sun / zen headbutt or rock slide​
    any variant of gardevoir > girafarig
    [​IMG] gardevoir @ choice scarf or choice specs | trace
    timid nature (+spe, -atk) | 4 hp / 252 spa / 252 spe
    psychic / focus blast / shadow ball or thunderbolt / trick​

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