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Throh (QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by scorpdestroyer, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Circle Throh

    [Overview]

    <p>Throh has fantastic bulk and a solid Attack stat, but what really separates itself from similar Pokemon such as Gurdurr is its better special bulk and ability to phaze out troublesome opponents. Between these factors and its access to Bulk Up, Throh becomes extremely hard to stop after a few boosts. It also has a great ability in Guts, allowing it to absorb most forms of status and utilize RestTalk effectively. Its low Speed is hardly a hindrance due to its ability to plow through teams with the combination of Bulk Up and Circle Throw. However, it is weak to Psychic and Flying, two common attacking types in NU that can wear it down quickly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Phazer
    move 1: Circle Throw
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Payback
    item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
    ability: Guts
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Circle Throw is Throh's best STAB option, as it can phaze while still doing damage, working very well alongide entry hazards. This also means that Throh's counters have a harder time switching in, as they must be careful of being phazed out. Bulk Up allows Throh to boost its Attack and Defense, allowing it to hit hard while being difficult to take down both physically and specially. Rest is Throh's only form of recovery, but serves its purpose adequately, allowing it to boost before healing itself, and adding to its longevity. As a bonus, it also allows Throh to hit harder while asleep thanks to Guts. Sleep Talk allows Throh to continue to damage and phaze opponents while asleep and avoid becoming a sitting duck. At the same time, it also gives Circle Throw neutral priority. Payback is another option as it is Throh's only way to hit Ghost-types, and forms perfect neutral coverage alongside Circle Throw.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Leftovers should be used when running Sleep Talk, while Chesto Berry should be used with Payback, as if not running Sleep Talk you will want to spend the least possible amount of time asleep, and therefore defenseless. A specially defensive EV spread is used to make Throh tough to take down on the special side, while relying on Bulk Up to boost its Defense. However, a more offensive EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD with an Adamant nature can be used alongside a Chesto Berry to allow Throh to immediately hit harder when it wakes up. Teammates that lay down entry hazards are essential, because otherwise, Throh is not as potent a threat. It also helps that some of Throh's biggest counters are also those more weak to entry hazards and are thus more easily worn down by constant phazing. Metang is an excellent teammate, sponging Flying- and Psychic-type attacks for Throh while setting up Stealth Rock. Misdreavus is also a great partner as it blocks the opponent's attempts to Rapid Spin away the entry hazards, while burning physical attackers to allow Throh to set up more easily. Pursuit trapping is also appreciated to ease Throh's trouble with Ghost- and Psychic-types, especially the former, which Throh is unable to hit if not running Payback. Therefore, Skuntank is a great partner, as it can trap and remove Ghost- and Psychic-types for Throh and allow it an easier time sweeping.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Bulk Up
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Storm Throw
    move 4: Ice Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 92 HP / 132 Atk / 120 SpD / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set allows Throh to set up on weak defensive Pokemon that have difficulty breaking its Substitute. Unlike the bulky phazer set, this variant of Throh is able to defeat stall with less team support and avoids status without relying on Rest. Substitute allows Throh to avoid status and revenge killers, and thanks to its good bulk, most walls are unable to break through it in one hit. Bulk Up boosts Throh's Attack and Defense, allowing it to hit hard while making its Substitute even harder to break with physical attacks. Storm Throw is Throh's most powerful reliable STAB move, and due to its nature of always landing critical hits, it allows Throh to defeat other Throh and Gurdurr that try to set up Bulk Up alongside it. Finally, Ice Punch gives Throh the best neutral coverage in two moves, hitting the likes of Drifblim and Roselia hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Mold Breaker is the chosen ability as it allows Throh to OHKO offensive Carracosta through Solid Rock after Stealth Rock at +1 as well as OHKO Bastiodon through Sturdy before it gets phazed out. The HP EVs allow Throh to create 101 HP Substitutes that cannot be broken by Seismic Toss and Night Shade, allowing it to set up on Wartortle that lack Haze and Hypno if they use these moves. Alongside the given Special Defense EVs, Throh's Substitutes cannot be broken by weak moves from defensive Pokemon, including Tangela's Giga Drain, Roselia and Weezing's Sludge Bomb, Alomomola's Waterfall, and Regirock's Drain Punch, and Throh can proceed to set up on them. The Speed EVs allow Throh to outspeed Roselia and everything below that benchmark, including common walls such as Tangela and Alomomola. The rest of the EVs are placed into Attack to power up Throh. Unlike other sets, this variant of Throh can hit much harder immediately thanks to more investment in Attack and thus can perform well against offensive teams as well. Payback can be used over Ice Punch to hit Ghost- and Psychic-types slightly harder, but this fails to defeat Vileplume and Roselia, and Throh has no business staying in on the previously mentioned Ghost- and Psychic-types anyway. This variant of Throh despises status, especially Toxic Spikes, which limits its longevity as it is unable to rid itself of it. Hence, cleric support from the likes of Lickilicky and Audino is recommended. Grounded Poison-types, such as Scolipede and Garbodor, are also able to absorb Toxic Spikes. These Pokemon can also set up Toxic Spikes of their own to help Throh wear down bulky walls it otherwise cannot break, such as Musharna. Psychic-types are also problematic for this set due to their ability to tank hits from it and retaliate with a super effective STAB move. Hence, Skuntank and Liepard are good partners as they can Pursuit trap these Psychic-types and eliminate them for Throh. Finally, Metang makes for an excellent teammate, covering up on Throh's two weaknesses to Flying and Psychic while setting up Stealth Rock to aid in Throh's sweep.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Throh can use a Toxic Orb alongside Guts to attack under Trick Room, with a moveset consisting of Superpower, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Payback. However, such a set is extremely reliant on teammates to set up Trick Room for it, and it is not a very good strategy in the first place. Its reliance on Toxic Orb and Superpower also limits Throh's staying power, which is the main draw of using Throh in the first place. Toxic and Knock Off can be used to support Throh's teammates, but this is done better by Gurdurr due to the latter's access to Drain Punch. Brick Break is a powerful alternative STAB move that can break the opponent's dual screens, but it does not have the utility of phazing that Circle Throw does, and critical hits from Storm Throw ignore dual screens anyway.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is very difficult to switch into Throh due to the threat of Circle Throw, especially with entry hazards on the field. Ghost-types are among the best counters as they are immune to Throh's STAB moves and completely wall bulky phazer Throh if it lacks Payback on the first set. SubDisable Drifblim and Haunter deserve a special mention as they completely wall Throh regardless of its moves by disabling Payback or Ice Punch. Bulky Psychic-types, such as Musharna, can tank a hit from Throh and retaliate with a powerful Psychic. Flying-types, such as Swellow and Braviary, can swiftly defeat Throh with a powerful Brave Bird, but they have trouble switching in unless they come in on a setup move. Pokemon with Taunt can prevent Throh from setting up or using Sleep Talk, making it easier to wear Throh down. Pokemon with Encore can also lock Throh into an unfavorable move and proceed to wear it down. Kadabra has Encore and deserves a special mention for its immunity to entry hazards and ability to quickly defeat Throh with Psychic. Mandibuzz and Golbat have access to Taunt and Toxic with which to defeat Throh. They also have access to Whirlwind to erase all of Throh's boosts even from behind a Substitute, and due to their higher Speed, can phaze before Throh's Circle Throw. Golbat even has access to Haze to remove any boosts that Throh has without resorting to negative priority. However, it should be noted that Circle Throw will still go before Whirlwind if called by Sleep Talk. Also, Mandibuzz has to take extra care when using Roost as Throh's STAB then becomes super effective.</p>

    Show Hide

    [Overview]
    Fantastic bulk combined with solid Attack.
    Access to Bulk Up is nice, as it is hard to break with a few boosts under it's belt.
    Great ability with Guts. It makes a RestTalk set viable, as well as being able to benefit from burns.
    Weakness to common Psychic- and Flying-type moves can sometimes wear it down quickly.
    Even though it is slow, it resorts to bulk to plow through teams with BU + Circle Throw.
    [SET]
    name: Bulky Phazer
    move 1: Circle Throw
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Payback
    item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
    ability: Guts
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Circle Throw is Throh's best STAB option, as it can phaze while doing damage, working alongide entry hazards very well.
    A few Bulk Up boosts = super bulky both specially and physically, and more attacking power.
    Rest is Throh's only recovery, and it adds to longetivity
    Sleep Talk goes well with Rest, and lets Throh stay in for much longer, but Payback is Throh's only way of hitting Ghost-types, and forms near-perfect neutral coverage with Circle Throw.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    Leftovers should be used if running Sleep Talk, but Chesto Berry is preferred if running Payback.
    Specially defensive spread goes well with Bulk Up to make Throh much harder to break.
    More offensive spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD is an option, and it should definitely be used if running Chesto Berry.
    Teammates that set entry hazards are a necessity, as Circle Throw will not do much damage without hazards on the field.
    Metang sets up SR and sponges threatening Flying- and Psychic-type attacks like it's nothing.
    Misdreavus is also a great partner, as it can spinblock the entry hazards that Throh needs to function, as well as being able to burn physical attackers, thus letting Throh set up more easily.
    Pursuit-trapping is very important for Throh to function properly, especially if not running Payback, as it will otherwise have no options against Ghost-types.
    Therefore Skuntank is a great partner, as it can trap and remove Ghost- and Psychic-types.
    [Other Options]
    Trick Room attacker! Toxic Orb with a moveset of Superpower, Earthquake, Payback, and Stone Edge. Would, of course, require Trick Room support from teammates. This set is quite mediocre though, since Superpower limits it's sweeping capabilities, and Trick Room is not exactly the best strategy.
    Storm Throw to break through opposing Bulk Up, but Circle Throw phazes them out anyway.
    Toxic and Knock Off for support set, but Gurdurr is more consistent with this job due to Drain Punch.
    Brick Break is almost as powerful as Storm Throw, and can break through screens, but since dual screens are uncommon, Brick Break won't have much utility.
    [Checks and Counters]
    Most of it's counters are hard to switch into, especially if there are hazards on the field.
    Ghost-types are immune to Circle Throw, and cannot be touched bar Payback.
    Taunt and Encore will mess with it.
    Misdreavus has Taunt, Drifblim has Acrobatics, and SubDisable Haunter is literally impossible to break through. CB Golurk can also put pressure on Throh with powerful Earthquakes.
    Psychic-types, such as Musharna and Gardevoir, can sponge Throh's STAB move, and hit Throh very hard with their STAB move.
    Jynx is a shaky check; it can hit Throh hard as well, but it is extremely risky to switch it in.
    Flying-types can hit it hard, but have a very hard time switching into Throh, as they have a weakness to Stealth Rock.
    Mandibuzz and Golbat wall it, and they both have ways of dealing with it; they both have Taunt and Whirlwind; Whirlwind will go before Circle Throw. Note that Circle Throw doesn't have negative priority if pulled from Sleep Talk, so play carefully if Throh is sleeping. Golbat can also use Haze to put a complete stop to Throh.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  2. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    FLCL, Treecko, and that random guy named Soulgazer(who isn't even important anyway) wants this set for second set:

    EDIT: This is from ~2012, but the EV is still relevant since its Substitute can survive Roselia's Sludge Bomb most of the time, and well Absol is gone~

    TLDR:
    • 101 hp subs
    • ev'd so it can set up on most walls
    • set up all over scolipede :)
    • outspeeds base 65s
    • rest in Atk to do as much damage as possible

    :pirate:
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  3. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,793
    qc 3/3 :mad: We went over this on irc, now its gp time!
  4. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    amcheck
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    comments

    Show Hide


    [Overview]

    <p>Throh has fantastic bulk and a solid aAttack stat. It separates itself from Gurdurr with its better special bulk and ability to phaze out troublesome opponents. With these factors and Bulk Up, Throh becomes extremely hard to stop after a few boosts. It has a great ability in Guts, allowing it to absorb most forms of status and utilize RestTalk effectively. Its low Speed is hardly a hindrance due to its ability to plow through teams with Bulk Up and Circle Throw. However, it is weak to Psychic- and Flying-types, two common attacking types in NU that can wear it down quickly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Phazer
    move 1: Circle Throw
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Payback
    item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
    ability: Guts
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Circle Throw is Throh's best STAB option, as it can phaze while doing damage, working alongide entry hazards very well. This also means that Throh's counters have a harder time switching in as they must be careful of being phazed out. Bulk Up allows Throh to boost its Attack and Defense, allowing it to hit hard while being difficult to take down both physically and specially. Rest is Throh's only form of recovery, allowing Throh it to boost before healing itself, adding to its longevity. As a bonus, it also allows Throh to hit harder thanks to Guts. Sleep Talk allow Throh to continue to damage and phaze opponents while asleep and avoid becoming a sitting duck. At the same time, it also gives Circle Throw neutral priority. Payback is another option as Throh's only way to hit Ghost-types, forming perfect neutral coverage alongside Circle Throw.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Leftovers should be used when running Sleep Talk, while Chesto Berry should be used with Payback. A specially defensive EV spread is used to make Throh tough to take down together with Bulk Up boosting its Defense. However, a more offensive EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD with an Adamant nature can be used alongside a Chesto Berry to allow Throh to immediately hit harder when it wakes up. Teammates that lay down entry hazards are essential, because otherwise, Throh will no longer be as potent without entry hazard damage. It also helps that some of Throh's biggest counters are also those more weak to entry hazards and are thus more easily worn down by Circle Throw. Metang is an excellent teammate, sponging Flying- and Psychic-type attacks for Throh while setting up Stealth Rock. Misdreavus is also a great partner as it blocks the opponent's attempts to Rapid Spin away the entry hazards, while burning physical attackers to allow Throh to set up more easily. Pursuit trapping is also appreciated to ease Throh's trouble with Ghost- and Psychic-types, especially the former which Throh is unable to hit if not running Payback. Therefore, Skuntank is a great partner, as it can trap and remove Ghost- and Psychic-types for Throh and allow it an easier time sweeping.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Bulk Up
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Storm Throw
    move 4: Ice Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 92 HP / 132 Atk / 120 SpDef / 164 Spde

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set allows Throh to set up on weak defensive Pokemon that have difficulty breaking its Substitute. Unlike the Bulky Phazer set, this variant of Throh is able to defeat stall with less team support and avoids status without relying on Rest. Substitute allows Throh to avoid status and revenge killers,(AC) and thanks to its good bulk, most walls are unable to break through it. Bulk Up boosts Throh's Attack and Defense, allowing it to hit hard while making its Substitute even harder to break with physical attacks. Storm Throw is Throh's most powerful STAB move. Due to its nature of always landing critical hits, it allows Throh to defeat other Throh and Gurdurr that try to set up Bulk Up alongside it. Finally, Ice Punch gives Throh the best neutral coverage, hitting the likes of Drifblim and Roselia hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The HP EVs allow Throh to create 101 HP Substitutes, which that cannot be broken by Seismic Toss and Night Shade, allowing it to set up on Wartortle that lack Haze and Hypno if they use these moves. Alongside the given Special Defense EVs, Throh's Substitutes cannot be broken by weak moves from defensive Pokemon, including Tangela's Giga Drain, Roselia's and Weezing's Sludge Bomb, Alomomola's Waterfall, Regirock's Drain Punch, and bulky Scolipede's Megahorn, and Throh can proceed to set up on them. The Speed EVs allow Throh to outspeed Roselia and everything below that benchmark, including common walls such as Tangela and Alomomola. The rest of the EVs are placed into Attack to power up Throh. Unlike other sets, this variant of Throh can hit much harder immediately thanks to more investment in Attack and thus can perform well against offensive teams as well. Payback can be used over Ice Punch to hit Ghost- and Psychic-types slightly harder, but this fails to defeat Vileplume and Roselia, and Throh has no business staying in on them previously mentioned Ghost- and Psychic-types('they' could refer to rose and vileplume too) anyway. This variant of Throh despises status, especially Toxic Spikes, which limits its longevity as it is unable to rid itself of it. Hence, cleric support from the likes of Lickilicky and Audino is recommended. Grounded Poison-types, such as Scolipede and Garbodor, are also able to absorb Toxic Spikes. These Pokemon can also set up Toxic Spikes of their own to help Throh wear down bulky walls it otherwise cannot break, such as Musharna. Psychic-types are also problematic for this set for due to their ability to tank hits from it and retaliate with a super effective STAB move. Hence, Skuntank and Liepard are good partners as they can Pursuit trap these Psychic-types and eliminate them for Throh. Finally, Metang makes for an excellent teammate, covering up on Throh's two weaknesses to Flying and Psychic while setting up Stealth Rock to aid in Throh's sweeping.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Throh can use a Toxic Orb to attack under Trick Room, with a moveset consisting of Superpower, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Payback. However, this is extremely reliant on teammates to set up Trick Room for it,(AC) which and it is not a very good strategy in the first place. Its reliance on Toxic Orb and Superpower also limits Throh's staying power, which is the main draw of using it. Toxic and Knock Off can be used to support Throh's teammates, but this is done better by Gurdurr due to the latter's access to Drain Punch. Brick Break is a powerful alternative STAB move that can break the opponent's dual screens, but it does not have the utility of phazing that Circle Throw does, and critical hits from Storm Throw ignore dual screens anyway.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is very difficult to switch into Throh due to the threat of Circle Throw, especially with entry hazards on the field. Ghost-types are among the best counters as they are immune to Throh's STAB moves and completely wall Bbulky Pphazer Throh if it lacks Payback on the first set. SubDisable Drifblim and Haunter deserves special mentions as they completely wall Throh regardless of its moves by disabling Payback or Ice Punch. Bulky Psychic-types, such as Musharna, can tank a hit from Throh and retaliate with a powerful Psychic. Jynx can do the same, but it has lots of trouble switching in. Flying-types, such as Swellow and Braviary, can swiftly defeat Throh with a powerful Brave Bird, but they find trouble switching in unless on a setup move. Pokemon with Taunt can prevent Throh from setting up or using Sleep Talk, making it easier to wear down. Pokemon with Encore can also lock Throh into an unfavorable move and proceed to wear it down. Kadabra has Encore and deserves a special mention for its immunity to entry hazards and ability to quickly defeat Throh with Psychic. Mandibuzz and Golbat have access to Taunt and Toxic to defeat Throh. They also have access to Whirlwind to erase all of Throh's boosts even from behind a Substitute, and due to their higher Speed, can phaze before Throh's Circle Throw. Golbat even has access to Haze to remove any boosts that Throh has without resorting to negative priority. However, it should be noted that Circle Throw will still go before Whirlwind if called by Sleep Talk. Also, Mandibuzz has to take extra care when using Roost, because as Throh's STAB then becomes super effective.</p>
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  5. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
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    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Throh has fantastic bulk and a solid Attack stat. It separates itself from Gurdurr with its better special bulk and ability to phaze out troublesome opponents. With these factors and Bulk Up, Throh becomes extremely hard to stop after a few boosts. It has a great ability in Guts, allowing it to absorb most forms of status and utilize RestTalk effectively. Its low Speed is hardly a hindrance due to its ability to plow through teams with Bulk Up and Circle Throw. However, it is weak to Psychic- and Flying-types, two common attacking types in NU that can wear it down quickly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Phazer
    move 1: Circle Throw
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Payback
    item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
    ability: Guts
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Circle Throw is Throh's best STAB option, as it can phaze while doing damage, working alongide entry hazards very well. This also means that Throh's counters have a harder time switching in as they must be careful of being phazed out. Bulk Up allows Throh to boost its Attack and Defense, allowing it to hit hard while being difficult to take down both physically and specially. Rest is Throh's only form of recovery, allowing it to boost before healing itself, adding to its longevity. As a bonus, it also allows Throh to hit harder thanks to Guts. Sleep Talk allow Throh to continue to damage and phaze opponents while asleep and avoid becoming a sitting duck. At the same time, it also gives Circle Throw neutral priority. Payback is another option as Throh's only way to hit Ghost-types, forming perfect neutral coverage alongside Circle Throw.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Leftovers should be used when running Sleep Talk, while Chesto Berry should be used with Payback. A specially defensive EV spread is used to make Throh tough to take down together with Bulk Up boosting its Defense. However, a more offensive EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD with an Adamant nature can be used alongside a Chesto Berry to allow Throh to immediately hit harder when it wakes up. Teammates that lay down entry hazards are essential, because otherwise, Throh will no longer be as potent without entry hazard damage is not as potent (saying entry hazards again is redundant). It also helps that some of Throh's biggest counters are also those more weak to entry hazards and are thus more easily worn down by Circle Throw. Metang is an excellent teammate, sponging Flying- and Psychic-type attacks for Throh while setting up Stealth Rock. Misdreavus is also a great partner as it blocks the opponent's attempts to Rapid Spin away the entry hazards, while burning physical attackers to allow Throh to set up more easily. Pursuit trapping is also appreciated to ease Throh's trouble with Ghost- and Psychic-types, especially the former,(AC) which Throh is unable to hit if not running Payback. Therefore, Skuntank is a great partner, as it can trap and remove Ghost- and Psychic-types for Throh and allow it an easier time sweeping.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Bulk Up
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Storm Throw
    move 4: Ice Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 92 HP / 132 Atk / 120 SpD / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set allows Throh to set up on weak defensive Pokemon that have difficulty breaking its Substitute. Unlike the Bbulky Pphazer set, this variant of Throh is able to defeat stall with less team support and avoids status without relying on Rest. Substitute allows Throh to avoid status and revenge killers, and thanks to its good bulk, most walls are unable to break through it. Bulk Up boosts Throh's Attack and Defense, allowing it to hit hard while making its Substitute even harder to break with physical attacks. Storm Throw is Throh's most powerful STAB move. Due to its nature of always landing critical hits, it allows Throh to defeat other Throh and Gurdurr that try to set up Bulk Up alongside it. Finally, Ice Punch gives Throh the best neutral coverage, hitting the likes of Drifblim and Roselia hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The HP EVs allow Throh to create 101 HP Substitutes that cannot be broken by Seismic Toss and Night Shade, allowing it to set up on Wartortle that lack Haze and Hypno if they use these moves. Alongside the given Special Defense EVs, Throh's Substitutes cannot be broken by weak moves from defensive Pokemon, including Tangela's Giga Drain, Roselia and Weezing's Sludge Bomb, Alomomola's Waterfall, Regirock's Drain Punch, and bulky Scolipede's Megahorn, and Throh can proceed to set up on them. The Speed EVs allow Throh to outspeed Roselia and everything below that benchmark, including common walls such as Tangela and Alomomola. The rest of the EVs are placed into Attack to power up Throh. Unlike other sets, this variant of Throh can hit much harder immediately thanks to more investment in Attack and thus can perform well against offensive teams as well. Payback can be used over Ice Punch to hit Ghost- and Psychic-types slightly harder, but this fails to defeat Vileplume and Roselia, and Throh has no business staying in on the previously mentioned Ghost- and Psychic-types anyway. This variant of Throh despises status, especially Toxic Spikes, which limits its longevity as it is unable to rid itself of it. Hence, cleric support from the likes of Lickilicky and Audino is recommended. Grounded Poison-types, such as Scolipede and Garbodor, are also able to absorb Toxic Spikes. These Pokemon can also set up Toxic Spikes of their own to help Throh wear down bulky walls it otherwise cannot break, such as Musharna. Psychic-types are also problematic for this set due to their ability to tank hits from it and retaliate with a super effective STAB move. Hence, Skuntank and Liepard are good partners as they can Pursuit trap these Psychic-types and eliminate them for Throh. Finally, Metang makes for an excellent teammate, covering up on Throh's two weaknesses to Flying and Psychic while setting up Stealth Rock to aid in Throh's sweep.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Throh can use a Toxic Orb to attack under Trick Room, with a moveset consisting of Superpower, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Payback. However, this is extremely reliant on teammates to set up Trick Room for it, and it is not a very good strategy in the first place. Its reliance on Toxic Orb and Superpower also limits Throh's staying power, which is the main draw of using it. Toxic and Knock Off can be used to support Throh's teammates, but this is done better by Gurdurr due to the latter's access to Drain Punch. Brick Break is a powerful alternative STAB move that can break the opponent's dual screens, but it does not have the utility of phazing that Circle Throw does, and critical hits from Storm Throw ignore dual screens anyway.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is very difficult to switch into Throh due to the threat of Circle Throw, especially with entry hazards on the field. Ghost-types are among the best counters as they are immune to Throh's STAB moves and completely wall bulky phazer Throh if it lacks Payback on the first set. SubDisable Drifblim and Haunter deserve special mentions as they completely wall Throh regardless of its moves by disabling Payback or Ice Punch. Bulky Psychic-types, such as Musharna, can tank a hit from Throh and retaliate with a powerful Psychic. Jynx can do the same, but it has lots of trouble switching in. Flying-types, such as Swellow and Braviary, can swiftly defeat Throh with a powerful Brave Bird, but they find trouble switching in unless on a setup move. Pokemon with Taunt can prevent Throh from setting up or using Sleep Talk, making it easier to wear down. Pokemon with Encore can also lock Throh into an unfavorable move and proceed to wear it down. Kadabra has Encore and deserves a special mention for its immunity to entry hazards and ability to quickly defeat Throh with Psychic. Mandibuzz and Golbat have access to Taunt and Toxic to defeat Throh. They also have access to Whirlwind to erase all of Throh's boosts even from behind a Substitute, and due to their higher Speed, can phaze before Throh's Circle Throw. Golbat even has access to Haze to remove any boosts that Throh has without resorting to negative priority. However, it should be noted that Circle Throw will still go before Whirlwind if called by Sleep Talk. Also, Mandibuzz has to take extra care when using Roost as Throh's STAB then becomes super effective.</p>



    great writeup, gp 1/2
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  6. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    checkyyy (open)


    [Overview]

    <p>Throh has fantastic bulk and a solid Attack stat,(comma) but what really .(remove) It separates itself it from similar Pokemon such as Gurdurr with is its better special bulk and ability to phaze out troublesome opponents. With Between these factors and its access to Bulk Up, Throh becomes extremely hard to stop after a few boosts. It also has a great ability in Guts, allowing it to absorb most forms of status and utilize RestTalk effectively. Its low Speed is hardly a hindrance due to its ability to plow through teams with the combination of Bulk Up and Circle Throw. However, it is weak to Psychic-(remove) and Flying-types, two common attacking types in NU that can wear it down quickly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Phazer
    move 1: Circle Throw
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Payback
    item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
    ability: Guts
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Circle Throw is Throh's best STAB option, as it can phaze while still doing damage, working alongide very well alongside entry hazards very well. This also means that Throh's counters have a harder time switching in,(comma) as they must be careful of being phazed out. Bulk Up allows Throh to boost its Attack and Defense, allowing it to hit hard while being difficult to take down both physically and specially. Rest is Throh's only form of recovery, but serves its purpose adequately, allowing it to boost before healing itself, and adding to its longevity. As a bonus, it also allows Throh to hit harder while asleep, thanks to Guts. Sleep Talk allow allows Throh to continue to damage and phaze opponents while asleep and avoid becoming a sitting duck. At the same time, it also gives Circle Throw neutral priority. Payback is another option as it is Throh's only way to hit Ghost-types, forming and forms perfect neutral coverage alongside Circle Throw.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Leftovers should be used when running Sleep Talk, while Chesto Berry should be used with Payback, as if not running Sleep Talk you will want to spend the least possible amount of time asleep, and therefore defenseless. A specially defensive EV spread is used to make Throh tough to take down on the special side, while relying on together with Bulk Up to boost boosting its Defense. However, a more offensive EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD with an Adamant nature can be used alongside a Chesto Berry to allow Throh to immediately hit harder when it wakes up. Teammates that lay down entry hazards are essential, because otherwise, Throh is not as potent a threat. It also helps that some of Throh's biggest counters are also those more weak to entry hazards and are thus more easily worn down by Circle Throw constant phazing. Metang is an excellent teammate, sponging Flying- and Psychic-type attacks for Throh while setting up Stealth Rock. Misdreavus is also a great partner as it blocks the opponent's attempts to Rapid Spin away the entry hazards, while burning physical attackers to allow Throh to set up more easily. Pursuit trapping is also appreciated to ease Throh's trouble with Ghost- and Psychic-types, especially the former, which Throh is unable to hit if not running Payback. Therefore, Skuntank is a great partner, as it can trap and remove Ghost- and Psychic-types for Throh and allow it an easier time sweeping.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Bulk Up
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Bulk Up
    move 3: Storm Throw
    move 4: Ice Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 92 HP / 132 Atk / 120 SpD / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set allows Throh to set up on weak defensive Pokemon that have difficulty breaking its Substitute. Unlike the bulky phazer set, this variant of Throh is able to defeat stall with less team support and avoids status without relying on Rest. Substitute allows Throh to avoid status and revenge killers, and thanks to its good bulk, most walls are unable to break through it in one hit. Bulk Up boosts Throh's Attack and Defense, allowing it to hit hard while making its Substitute even harder to break with physical attacks. Storm Throw is Throh's most powerful reliable STAB move, and due .(remove) Due to its nature of always landing critical hits, it allows Throh to defeat other Throh and Gurdurr that try to set up Bulk Up alongside it. Finally, Ice Punch gives Throh the best neutral coverage in two moves, hitting the likes of Drifblim and Roselia hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The HP EVs allow Throh to create 101 HP Substitutes that cannot be broken by Seismic Toss and Night Shade, allowing it to set up on Wartortle that lack Haze and Hypno if they use these moves. Alongside the given Special Defense EVs, Throh's Substitutes cannot be broken by weak moves from defensive Pokemon, including Tangela's Giga Drain, Roselia and Weezing's Sludge Bomb, Alomomola's Waterfall, Regirock's Drain Punch, and bulky Scolipede's Megahorn, and Throh can proceed to set up on them. The Speed EVs allow Throh to outspeed Roselia and everything below that benchmark, including common walls such as Tangela and Alomomola. The rest of the EVs are placed into Attack to power up Throh. Unlike other sets, this variant of Throh can hit much harder immediately thanks to more investment in Attack and thus can perform well against offensive teams as well. Payback can be used over Ice Punch to hit Ghost- and Psychic-types slightly harder, but this fails to defeat Vileplume and Roselia, and Throh has no business staying in on the previously mentioned Ghost- and Psychic-types anyway. This variant of Throh despises status, especially Toxic Spikes, which limits its longevity as it is unable to rid itself of it. Hence, cleric support from the likes of Lickilicky and Audino is recommended. Grounded Poison-types, such as Scolipede and Garbodor, are also able to absorb Toxic Spikes. These Pokemon can also set up Toxic Spikes of their own to help Throh wear down bulky walls it otherwise cannot break, such as Musharna. Psychic-types are also problematic for this set due to their ability to tank hits from it and retaliate with a super effective STAB move. Hence, Skuntank and Liepard are good partners as they can Pursuit trap these Psychic-types and eliminate them for Throh. Finally, Metang makes for an excellent teammate, covering up on Throh's two weaknesses to Flying and Psychic while setting up Stealth Rock to aid in Throh's sweep.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Throh can use a Toxic Orb alongside Guts to attack under Trick Room, with a moveset consisting of Superpower, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Payback. However, this such a set is extremely reliant on teammates to set up Trick Room for it, and it is not a very good strategy in the first place. Its reliance on Toxic Orb and Superpower also limits Throh's staying power, which is the main draw of using it Throh in the first place. Toxic and Knock Off can be used to support Throh's teammates, but this is done better by Gurdurr due to the latter's access to Drain Punch. Brick Break is a powerful alternative STAB move that can break the opponent's dual screens, but it does not have the utility of phazing that Circle Throw does, and critical hits from Storm Throw ignore dual screens anyway.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is very difficult to switch into Throh due to the threat of Circle Throw, especially with entry hazards on the field. Ghost-types are among the best counters as they are immune to Throh's STAB moves and completely wall bulky phazer Throh if it lacks Payback on the first set. SubDisable Drifblim and Haunter deserve special mentions mention as they completely wall Throh regardless of its moves by disabling Payback or Ice Punch. Bulky Psychic-types, such as Musharna, can tank a hit from Throh and retaliate with a powerful Psychic. Jynx can do the same, but it has lots of trouble switching in. Flying-types, such as Swellow and Braviary, can swiftly defeat Throh with a powerful Brave Bird, but they find have trouble switching in unless they come in on a setup move. Pokemon with Taunt can prevent Throh from setting up or using Sleep Talk, making it easier to wear Throh down. Pokemon with Encore can also lock Throh into an unfavorable move and proceed to wear it down. Kadabra has Encore and deserves a special mention for its immunity to entry hazards and ability to quickly defeat Throh with Psychic. Mandibuzz and Golbat have access to Taunt and Toxic with which to defeat Throh. They also have access to Whirlwind to erase all of Throh's boosts even from behind a Substitute, and due to their higher Speed, can phaze before Throh's Circle Throw. Golbat even has access to Haze to remove any boosts that Throh has without resorting to negative priority. However, it should be noted that Circle Throw will still go before Whirlwind if called by Sleep Talk. Also, Mandibuzz has to take extra care when using Roost as Throh's STAB then becomes super effective.</p>


    [​IMG]

    GP Approved 2/2
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
  7. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Implemented, but I wasn't too sure about a change in Checks and Counters where it said that "SubDisable Drifblim and Haunter deserve special mention", so I didn't implement that change
  8. Rohail

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    Change it to "SubDisable Drifblim and Haunter deserve a special mention" because you're mentioning them together since they have similar roles. Other GP members, feel free to weigh in on this.
  9. scorpdestroyer

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    Ok, that makes sense, thanks
  10. Dat Blast

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    Extremely late scorpdestroyer but would you mind changing the second set's ability to Mold Breaker? Guts is kind of useless since the whole point of SubBU is to avoid status, while Mold Breaker lets you kill Sturdy mons after a few boosts without risking a crit or something and OHKOes Costa through Solid Rock after SR and +1. Also helps break down Torkoal and Armaldo easier I guess even though you already set up on them.
  11. scorpdestroyer

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    Yeah Guts was pretty useless in my test matches, I guess you can just play like an all out attacker if poisoned??? But yeah I'll be happy to change it
  12. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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